Not Again!!!

[Carl Stouffer]

So I am underneath my coach changing the oil and taking care of a few other maintenance issues (more on that later) and I notice a bunch of grease on
the trailing side of my right fender liner. A little feeling around revealed another torn CV boot. I replaced these about 4-1.2 years ago, maybe
25,000 miles, and here one is bad AGAIN!.

Fortunately, I have another shaft and new bolts to replace it with, but it is a heck of a lot of work (just venting) The spare shaft has one of the
old 'blue boots' on the outer CV that Dan Gregg gave me (used) several years ago. Those seem to last.

What is the average interval that the rest of you guys are having problems with these newer boots?
--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member

 

[Carl Stouffer]

Richard,

The 'blue boots' I am referring to are one piece silicone boots. They have been mentioned here on the GMC Net numerous times in the past. Do a
search of the forum and you will find quite a few posts about them. I have one on the left side and it has held up well. I'm hoping the other one I
am going to install on eht right side will hold up as well.

Unfortunately, they are no longer available. Dan had a pair, probably salvaged from his old axles when he changed to the one-ton front end. He was
gracious enough to give them to me.
--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member

 

[john r. lebetski]

The Unifit black boots have more pleats so don't pull off as easily. Have held up for me.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II

 

[scott nutter1]

Carl,
I've had the same problem but only worse. I only got about 1 1/2 year out of 2 rebuilt axel shafts. And both failures were on the outer boots.
I got the new outer boots from Jim K, and they seem to be working fine.
The old blue super boots were the best. It would be nice if they were still available.
Scott.
--
Scott Nutter
1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi. Alex Ferrera
installed MSD Atomic EFI
Houston, Texas

 

[Jim Hupy]

I put OEM style boots on my coach in 2008 when I rebuilt my entire front
suspension and steering on my 1978 Royale. I have a "Band-it" clamp making
tool, and it works well. My boots are still intact.
But, there is a trick to installing them. Absolutely have the large
end of the boot completely free from grease as well as the inside of the
boot. Clamp the snot out of the big end, and use a plastic zip tie on the
small end. It will move on the shaft instead of twisting the boot and
stressing it beyond the point of elasticity. They might seep a bit of
grease if you have insisted upon overgrazing the joint. Only use the pouch
of that Black, gooey, nasty, lube stuff that comes with the new boots. It
is formulated for constant velocity joints. Just what I do.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Sun, Feb 9, 2020, 7:15 AM Scott Nutter via Gmclist <

> Carl,
> I've had the same problem but only worse. I only got about 1 1/2 year out
> of 2 rebuilt axel shafts. And both failures were on the outer boots.
> I got the new outer boots from Jim K, and they seem to be working fine.
> The old blue super boots were the best. It would be nice if they were
> still available.
> Scott.
> --
> Scott Nutter
> 1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final
> drive, Quad bags, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi. Alex Ferrera
> installed MSD Atomic EFI
> Houston, Texas
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

 

[Carl Stouffer]

All that makes good sense Jim. I think, from the distortion on the boot, that it has sipped (spun?). This shaft came initially from Applied GMC and
was briefly on a local friend's coach that he later converted to the Manny 1-ton. I think it had, maybe 100 miles on it before I bought it from
him.

I guess I can't complain about having to replace them every five years or so, but this is the third time and it is starting to get old. Hopefully the
other shaft I have, with the blue silicone 'super boot' will last longer.
--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member

 

[johnny]

Take a very close look at the cotter pins on the castellated nuts close to the axle. One of mine died on the way home from L.A. and I found the end
of a pin sticking straight down.. ever hard bump drove it into the boot, looked as if.

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell

 

[Jim Hupy]

There is something to what you say about some boot setups lasting very
well, and others giving very poor service.
I have one regular customer that I did an engine swap for just early
last year. He had a torn boot on that coach when we did the swap, so I
replaced both the axle assemblies with reconditioned ones from a vendor
(not Jim K.) He came back 2 months ago for an oil change/lube service, and
to upgrade an engine oil cooler. Upon checking the boots, one was torn. So,
we yanked the axle assembly, cut off the old boot, and disassembled the
outer joint, cleaned and inspected the joint, re lubed it and installed a
new Dorman boot, using Band-it clamp on the big end, and zip tie on the
small end.
This in not my first rodeo where boots are concerned, been wrestling
with them since the swing axle VW's were popular.
I suspect, but have no empirical evidence to support my suspicions,
that ride height settings might have an effect here. I really don't know.
Some last well, and some do not.
I know that there exists out there a pneumatic tool that expands the
small end of the boot enough to install the boot without disassembling the
joint. That is stretching the heck out of that boot. Could this be a cause.
Perhaps.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Sun, Feb 9, 2020, 8:54 AM Carl Stouffer via Gmclist <

> All that makes good sense Jim. I think, from the distortion on the boot,
> that it has sipped (spun?). This shaft came initially from Applied GMC and
> was briefly on a local friend's coach that he later converted to the Manny
> 1-ton. I think it had, maybe 100 miles on it before I bought it from
> him.
>
> I guess I can't complain about having to replace them every five years or
> so, but this is the third time and it is starting to get old. Hopefully the
> other shaft I have, with the blue silicone 'super boot' will last longer.
> --
> Carl Stouffer
> '75 ex Palm Beach
> Tucson, AZ.
> Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive,
> Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American
> Eagles,
> Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

 

[Carl Stouffer]

Also good advice on the cotter pins and the ride height. I don't think either of those are the problem, but I'll check both. I haven't paid much
attention to the ride height since I rebuilt the front suspension 10 years ago. It's probably time to double check it.
--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member

 

[john r. lebetski]

Probably also a good idea (for several reasons) not to go holding full lock on the steering whenever possible.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II

 

[Jim Hupy]

Some of these coaches have bump stops that limit how far you can turn the
steering wheel, and some will turn until the power steering pump groans in
protest. Might be early vs late or something. Dunno' for sure.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Sun, Feb 9, 2020, 10:17 AM John R. Lebetski via Gmclist <

> Probably also a good idea (for several reasons) not to go holding full
> lock on the steering whenever possible.
> --
> John Lebetski
> Woodstock, IL
> 77 Eleganza II
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

 

[Carl Stouffer]

Although I don't have this one out yet, it seems to look a lot like the last one that failed, kind of distorted and twisted. What Jim H says about
not clamping the small end really tight makes sense as it would allow some movement in the boot.

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc-gmc/p59007-distorted-cv-boot.html
--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member

 

[Carl Stouffer]

Also, I have heard off net from a couple of other people that the standard boot, as pictured, is 'junk' and the Dorman boots with more pleats works
much better. Vendors take note.

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc-gmc/p59004-distorted-cv-boot.html

As we all know, the clearances are really tight and the problem might be caused by my penchant for driving on dirt roads, causing gravel to get in
there and tear the boot. I understand this is a somewhat common problem with front wheel drive vehicles in general.
--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member

 

[john r. lebetski]

Looks to me like a chemical incompatibility between the boot and grease or some other outside chemical attack. Distorted and crazed and puckered and
I bet it's no longer pliable. Could it have been hit with Brakeclean or something similar?
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II

 

[scott nutter1]

Carl,
That is exactly how my last two boots looked when they split. I talked to the rebuilder in Ocala Florida, and he said that when he puts the boot and
grease on the joint he also squeezes out all the air and pulls the small end of the boot to the first indent to band it in place. My guess is that the
boots might be a little too short, so it creates a vacuum inside the boot causing the boot to collapse at the rib. Then over time it fails..
Jim K was kind enough to send me new boots with grease. I reinstalled the new boots, but didn't extract any air..2000 miles on the new boots so far
with no distortion at the rib.. maybe the cause?? Seems plausible.
Scott.
--
Scott Nutter
1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi. Alex Ferrera
installed MSD Atomic EFI
Houston, Texas

 

[Carl Stouffer]

I looked up my records last night. The boot lasted about 5 years and 20,000 miles. Guess I don't really have anything to complain about (?)
--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member

 

[Carl Stouffer]

> As far as I know the boots on mine are original 43 years old.
>
> So 5 years is not that great.
>

> > I looked up my records last night. The boot lasted about 5 years and 20,000 miles. Guess I don't really have anything to complain about (?)

Then again...maybe not.
--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member

 

[jim kanomata1]

We find that ones that come from Red China fail.
We are now using ones that are made from polymers from USA.

On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 6:12 PM Carl Stouffer via Gmclist <

> > As far as I know the boots on mine are original 43 years old.
> >
> > So 5 years is not that great.
> >

> > > I looked up my records last night. The boot lasted about 5 years and
> 20,000 miles. Guess I don't really have anything to complain about (?)
>
>
> Then again...maybe not.
> --
> Carl Stouffer
> '75 ex Palm Beach
> Tucson, AZ.
> Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive,
> Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American
> Eagles,
> Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502

 

[Matt Colie]

> I looked up my records last night. The boot lasted about 5 years and 20,000 miles. Guess I don't really have anything to complain about (?)

Carl,

You sure do....
I have a US built Honda in the garage with 25years and something north of 250K (that broke about 5 years ago) and still has the OE boots.
If you can identify who made those we would all like to know.....

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

 

[78gmcroyale]

The blue boots are awesome and hold up incredibly well. Not sure you can buy them anymore.
--
Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale
414-484-9431