NON GMC - Electrical Question

J

JShot

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Dec 31, 2006
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Three strings of LED lights. Each plugged into a separate outside, weather protected duplex outlet.

All three outlets are on the same circuit, and are activated by a wall switch inside the house.

When on, all strings light up normally. When off, all three strings still light up, but at about 30% of normal.

Opinions???

TIA,
John

--
John Shotwell
Ridgeville Corners, OH
78 Royale Center Kitchen
Web Site: GMCmhRegistry.com
Email: john at gmcmhregistry dot com
 
Bad switch letting a small amount of current through. Might possibly have a wiring issue with a neutral loose somewhere and getting a back feed too.
Hal
--
1977 Royale 101348,

1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,

1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout
 
Bad outlet/switch wiring. Perhaps wrong leg on switch (black white crossover).
Tom, MS II
--
1975 GMC Avion
KA4CSG
 
Likely, there is a dimmer or a remote switch on the line. Something with a triac/diac or similar switching device in the line.

They pass a little bit of current to stay biased, this is generally not an issue with incandescent bulbs, but is a problem with LED.

Dolph Santorine

DE N8JPC

Wheeling, West Virginia

1977 ex-Palm Beach TZE167V100820
1-ton, Sullybuilt Bags, Reaction Arms, 3.70 LSD, Manny Transmission, EV-6010,

>
> Three strings of LED lights. Each plugged into a separate outside, weather protected duplex outlet.
>
> All three outlets are on the same circuit, and are activated by a wall switch inside the house.
>
> When on, all strings light up normally. When off, all three strings still light up, but at about 30% of normal.
>
> Opinions???
>
> TIA,
> John
>
> --
> John Shotwell
> Ridgeville Corners, OH
> 78 Royale Center Kitchen
> Web Site: GMCmhRegistry.com
> Email: john at gmcmhregistry dot com
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
RUN JOHN.... RUN...

> Three strings of LED lights. Each plugged into a separate outside, weather protected duplex outlet.
>
> All three outlets are on the same circuit, and are activated by a wall switch inside the house.
>
> When on, all strings light up normally. When off, all three strings still light up, but at about 30% of normal.
>
> Opinions???
>
> TIA,
> John

--
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
 
This is very common,most LEDs will operate at very low voltages, through capacitive discharge, inductive couplingfrom an adjacent circuit, or
unbalanced neutral. This also occurs frequently on 3-Way circuits for the same reason...

--
Sean and Stephanie
73 Ex-CanyonLands 26' #317 "Oliver"
Hubler 1-Ton, Quad-Bags, Rear Disc, Reaction Arms, P.Huber TBs, 3.70:1 LSD Honda 6500 inverter gen.

Colonial Travelers
 
Plug in a regular incandescent light into the same outlet and see if the LED's go out.

Depending on the design of the switch and how the wiring is run, stray capacitance can couple enough current to light the LED's. The incandescent bulb
with provide a path to drain off this current if you really want them OFF.

You should only see the LED's "glow" from this at night. So you have a bright and dim setting instead 8)

--
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
Hubler 1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
 
John,

Being electrically challenged (EC) I can't help BUT I can relate I had a problem when I replaced the four 240V x 50Hz incandescent
bulbs in my kitchen down lights here in Sydney.

After turning them off they would flash every 4 - 8 seconds continually.

I Googled the problem and one of the responses was that there was residual voltage on the circuit. Since I was EC'd I didn't
understand that and took them out and put the old bulbs in and they functioned normally.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of John Shotwell
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 4:04 AM
To: gmclist
Subject: [GMCnet] NON GMC - Electrical Question

Three strings of LED lights. Each plugged into a separate outside, weather protected duplex outlet.

All three outlets are on the same circuit, and are activated by a wall switch inside the house.

When on, all strings light up normally. When off, all three strings still light up, but at about 30% of normal.

Opinions???

TIA,
John

--
John Shotwell
Ridgeville Corners, OH
78 Royale Center Kitchen
Web Site: GMCmhRegistry.com
Email: john at gmcmhregistry dot com

_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Thanks for the ideas! I'll kill the circuit tomorrow and pull the switch and outlets to check their wiring. The house was built in 1971, and they ran
12-2 with ground to ALL of the duplex outlets (83 of them), BUT used ungrounded outlets. That's right - no ground hole, and the bare ground was just
loose in the boxes.

When we moved in, I replaced all of the outlets with grounded ones, and put in all new switches. But I may have missed the outlets on the front porch
:blush:

We'll see tomorrow.

Thanks again,
John
--
John Shotwell
Ridgeville Corners, OH
78 Royale Center Kitchen
Web Site: GMCmhRegistry.com
Email: john at gmcmhregistry dot com
 
John
White to light and black to dark(screw) at the receptacle (outlet) if you
live in Canada. And ground the box if metal. If plastic, ground the
receptacle.
BUT
Read Chuck's post or check your insurance policy before you go to bed
tonight !

Mike in NS

On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 6:41 PM, John Shotwell
wrote:

> Thanks for the ideas! I'll kill the circuit tomorrow and pull the switch
> and outlets to check their wiring. The house was built in 1971, and they ran
> 12-2 with ground to ALL of the duplex outlets (83 of them), BUT used
> ungrounded outlets. That's right - no ground hole, and the bare ground was
> just
> loose in the boxes.
>
> When we moved in, I replaced all of the outlets with grounded ones, and
> put in all new switches. But I may have missed the outlets on the front
> porch
> :blush:
>
> We'll see tomorrow.
>
> Thanks again,
> John
> --
> John Shotwell
> Ridgeville Corners, OH
> 78 Royale Center Kitchen
> Web Site: GMCmhRegistry.com
> Email: john at gmcmhregistry dot com
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS

Life is too short to hold a grudge; slash some tires and call it even !
 
Most but not all 120v appliances don't care if you incorrectly wire the
white and black at the outlet. I had an outlet in my home shop that I had
used forever and everything wiorked fine on it until I tried using my
forklift battery charger there. No worky. I ran an extension cord from a
different outlet and the charger worked fine. Drop light worked in the
suspect outlet however. Hmmmmm. Pulled the outlet and saw that the white
and black were on the wrong terminals, corrected them. Now charger worky
there. Electricity strange 😜

Sully
77 eleganza 2
Seattle

On Wednesday, November 30, 2016, John Shotwell
wrote:

> Thanks for the ideas! I'll kill the circuit tomorrow and pull the switch
> and outlets to check their wiring. The house was built in 1971, and they ran
> 12-2 with ground to ALL of the duplex outlets (83 of them), BUT used
> ungrounded outlets. That's right - no ground hole, and the bare ground was
> just
> loose in the boxes.
>
> When we moved in, I replaced all of the outlets with grounded ones, and
> put in all new switches. But I may have missed the outlets on the front
> porch
> :blush:
>
> We'll see tomorrow.
>
> Thanks again,
> John
> --
> John Shotwell
> Ridgeville Corners, OH
> 78 Royale Center Kitchen
> Web Site: GMCmhRegistry.com
> Email: john at gmcmhregistry dot com
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Good idea also, Ken. I've got a couple of those from years ago.

John
--
John Shotwell
Ridgeville Corners, OH
78 Royale Center Kitchen
Web Site: GMCmhRegistry.com
Email: john at gmcmhregistry dot com
 
Homer the Despot has them for $4.91. Cheap at twice that.

--johnny
--
'76 23' transmode Norris upfit, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"The road goes on forever, and the party never ends" --Robert Earl Keen
 
> Thanks for the ideas! I'll kill the circuit tomorrow and pull the switch and outlets to check their wiring. The house was built in 1971, and they
> ran 12-2 with ground to ALL of the duplex outlets (83 of them), BUT used ungrounded outlets. That's right - no ground hole, and the bare ground was
> just loose in the boxes.
>
> When we moved in, I replaced all of the outlets with grounded ones, and put in all new switches. But I may have missed the outlets on the front
> porch :blush:
>
> We'll see tomorrow.
>
> Thanks again,
> John

Built in 71, having an odd electrical issue and wired with 12awg wire? Make sure your house is not wired with aluminum wire... Was common around
that time, and due to a myriad of factors is a fire hazard. If your house is wired with aluminum, you should very soon consider rewiring the house or
there is a procedure to "re-terminate" the aluminum with copper...

Aluminum household wiring is a ticking time bomb...

--
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
 
> > Thanks for the ideas! I'll kill the circuit tomorrow and pull the switch and outlets to check their wiring. The house was built in 1971, and
> > they ran 12-2 with ground to ALL of the duplex outlets (83 of them), BUT used ungrounded outlets. That's right - no ground hole, and the bare
> > ground was just loose in the boxes.
> >
> > When we moved in, I replaced all of the outlets with grounded ones, and put in all new switches. But I may have missed the outlets on the
> > front porch :blush:
> >
> > We'll see tomorrow.
> >
> > Thanks again,
> > John
>
>
> Built in 71, having an odd electrical issue and wired with 12awg wire? Make sure your house is not wired with aluminum wire... Was common around
> that time, and due to a myriad of factors is a fire hazard. If your house is wired with aluminum, you should very soon consider rewiring the house
> or there is a procedure to "re-terminate" the aluminum with copper...
>
> Aluminum household wiring is a ticking time bomb...


Significance of mentioning 12awg in my post above is that 12awg aluminum is needed to support a standard 15 amp circuit... This would normally be
14awg if using copper...

--
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
 
When she and I had our first house built, I saw what was going on in the subdivision, and took the electrician a 250' roll of copper 12/2 and ground.
Two houses in the subdivision have burned, the others have all been rewired. Mine's going strong after 45 years, according to the current owner.
Interesting trivia - the house was built using old bricks from the death house at Kilby Prison in Montgomery. More than one con 'rode the lightning'
inside them.

--johnny
--
'76 23' transmode Norris upfit, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"The road goes on forever, and the party never ends" --Robert Earl Keen
 
Yes, I agree with you about the AL wire. One of the 1st things I thought about and checked when we bought the house. It's true copper.
I checked the three outlets with the hand held three light tester, and all three checked correctly. I also found out (and remembered) that I had
replaced all of the outside outlets with GFCI devices. Would that cause the dimming of the LED light strings?
Have to check the wall switch tomorrow.
John
--
John Shotwell
Ridgeville Corners, OH
78 Royale Center Kitchen
Web Site: GMCmhRegistry.com
Email: john at gmcmhregistry dot com
 
Well there goes that idea.

Is the wall switch by chance switching the neutral side rather than the hot side of the circuit?

I do not see how the GFI could be causing your problem, but I have been wrong more than once.

You have an induced voltage or a leak somewhere. What would be interesting is to see what the voltage is at the receiptical while the lights are
glowing. Also to see what happens to that voltage if you plug a normal 5, 25, or 40 watt incandescent lamp into the GFI.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
John,
An LED will light dimly with only micro-amps of current. The way the house is wired, it may have the conductors from the switch running in parallel
for many feet. Capacitance and inductance can couple enough current to dimly light the LED. Google it!
--
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
Hubler 1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
 
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