No start

T

tom geiger

New member
Dec 31, 2006
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Ok, this is a bit weird. Got in to start the GMC and a just got a click so I pulled the battery and put it on the charger and the charger showed
within a hour it was fully charged. Put it back in snd same click. Pulled the battery and took it up to walmart, they checked it and said it was
good. Replaced and cleaned cables and made sure they were clamped down tight. All good there. So I do hear a click on the starter but it won’t
turn the motor. Is it time for a new starter?

TG
 
Does it click the second, third, and 4th time you turn the key to start?

Turn on the headlights, then turn the key to start. Do the headlights dim or go off?
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
Sir, if you smack the starter a couple times on its side kinda solid with a hammer and it works, yes it’s time to at least get it cleaned and
checked by a competent rebuilder. OEM starter is a little longer and more stronger than car starter so try to keep it if you still got it.

> Ok, this is a bit weird. Got in to start the GMC and ust got a click so I pulled the battery and put it on the charger and the charger showed
> within a hour it was fully charged. Put it back in snd same click. Pulled the battery and took it up to walmart, they checked it and said it was
> good. Replaced and cleaned cables and made sure they were clamped down tight. All good there. So I do hear a click on the starter but it won’t
> turn the motor. Is it time for a new starter?
>
> TG

--
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
 
Guys, just went out and checked. Headlights remain strong and the started did make a clunk sound each time I turned the ignition in multiple times in
succession.

TG
 
The starter solenoid simply may not be applying battery
voltage to the starter motor. Check for continuity between
battery and the starter (big heavy wires) and starter wire
to the actual starter. It's probably a two person job.

If voltage does not show up at the solenoid output terminal,
replace the starter solenoid. If battery voltage then shows
up at the starter, replace the starter.

Don't forget to also check all the negative/ground wires!

D C "Mac" Macdonald
Amateur Radio K2GKK
Since 30 November '53
USAF and FAA, Retired
Member GMCMI & Classics
Oklahoma City, OK
"The Money Pit"
TZE166V101966
'76 ex-Palm Beach
k2gkk + hotmail dot com

________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of tom geiger via Gmclist
Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2020 20:00
To: gmclist
Cc: tom geiger
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] No start

Guys, just went out and checked. Headlights remain strong and the started did make a clunk sound each time I turned the ignition in multiple times in
succession.

TG

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There is a third possibility. Your engine is locked up solid, and the
starter cannot spin it. Bad, bad, ju-ju. I hope this is not the problem. It
is hyper expensive to fix.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 6:24 PM D C _Mac_ Macdonald via Gmclist <

> The starter solenoid simply may not be applying battery
> voltage to the starter motor. Check for continuity between
> battery and the starter (big heavy wires) and starter wire
> to the actual starter. It's probably a two person job.
>
> If voltage does not show up at the solenoid output terminal,
> replace the starter solenoid. If battery voltage then shows
> up at the starter, replace the starter.
>
> Don't forget to also check all the negative/ground wires!
>
> D C "Mac" Macdonald
> Amateur Radio K2GKK
> Since 30 November '53
> USAF and FAA, Retired
> Member GMCMI & Classics
> Oklahoma City, OK
> "The Money Pit"
> TZE166V101966
> '76 ex-Palm Beach
> k2gkk + hotmail dot com
>
> ________________________________
> From: Gmclist on behalf of tom geiger
> via Gmclist
> Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2020 20:00
> To: gmclist
> Cc: tom geiger
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] No start
>
> Guys, just went out and checked. Headlights remain strong and the started
> did make a clunk sound each time I turned the ignition in multiple times in
> succession.
>
> TG
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>
 
James H

You are typically right on topic and I read ANYTHING you post BUT wouldn't the headlights dim if the engine was locked?

Just asking and trying to be helpful. I had a similar experience and took my starter out and to the local rebuilder and now all is well.

HTH

Melbo
--
Albuquerque NM Bus Conversion 1978 MCI 1973 GMC
 
Yes, headlights should dim if there is a hellacious load on the starter.
Same if the battery were shot.
Jim Hupy,
Salem, Oregon

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 7:08 PM melmull--- via Gmclist <

> James H
>
> You are typically right on topic and I read ANYTHING you post BUT wouldn't
> the headlights dim if the engine was locked?
>
> Just asking and trying to be helpful. I had a similar experience and took
> my starter out and to the local rebuilder and now all is well.
>
> HTH
>
> Melbo
> --
> Albuquerque NM Bus Conversion 1978 MCI 1973 GMC
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Tom,

Remove the starter. Remove the solenoid from it. Disassemble the switch
end of the solenoid. You'll probably find that the two large copper studs
have badly eroded "heads" inside the housing, where the disc attached to
the solenoid's plunger contacts those two heads. You should be able to
turn the disc over and rotate the studs so that new contact surfaces can
engage. Reassembled, the solenoid and starter should work normally. If
new surfaces can't be used, clean up those that are necessary -- or go
spend $15 or so for a new solenoid.

JWID,

Ken H.

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 10:08 PM melmull--- via Gmclist <

> James H
>
> You are typically right on topic and I read ANYTHING you post BUT wouldn't
> the headlights dim if the engine was locked?
>
> Just asking and trying to be helpful. I had a similar experience and took
> my starter out and to the local rebuilder and now all is well.
>
> HTH
>
> Melbo
> --
> Albuquerque NM Bus Conversion 1978 MCI 1973 GMC
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Guess I could drop off ghe starter and check if it works. Or can I take a break over bar on the crank to see if the engine turns?
 
OK you have:
1. a bad starter solenoid. There is a big copper ring inside that touches two copper studs. Odds are the studs are worn down. the solenoid can
easily be taken apart, and the studs reversed 180 degrees. I just replaced one of these The solenoid was $21.00 at the local starter rebuild shop.
Unfortunately is was not as good as an original one because some of the contacts were plated steel not solid copper or bass.
2. There is a possibility that the bendix gear is not engaging the gear on the flywheel. You can turn the engine slightly to move the flywheel (Flex
Plate) slightly by putting a socket on the big bolt in front of the crank shaft. Then try again.
3. The third possibility is the starter itself. Usually this is just a worn down brush. If you do not feel comfortable talking it apart, then take
it to a local starter repair place. They can can quickly diagnose, repair, and lube only the specific things that are wrong with it.
That usually costs me $25 to $35 depending on what parts they replace.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
The engine is NOT locked or the lights would have dimmed. Thaat is oneof the reasons I ask you to turnon the lights. The click with out dimming the
lights tells us that probably the solenoid contacts are worn and Colonel Ken's previous description on how to fix it without any new parts is right
on.
Ken B.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
The solenoid contactor, as it is known, used to be reversible and made of
solid copper. Alas, it is not made out of copper any more. Some kind of
"mystery metal" that is copper covered with a foil like material, and is no
longer either replaceable or reversible. With today's labor rates, quicker
and easier to merely replace the solenoid. I guess it makes some cockeyed
sense to someone.
All that I am saying here is, Either good or bad, replacement is your only
option. Sucks, for sure. Kinda makes some of us long for the "good 'ol
days".
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 8:52 PM Ken Burton via Gmclist <

> The engine is NOT locked or the lights would have dimmed. Thaat is oneof
> the reasons I ask you to turnon the lights. The click with out dimming the
> lights tells us that probably the solenoid contacts are worn and Colonel
> Ken's previous description on how to fix it without any new parts is right
> on.
> Ken B.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
You can short across the solenoid to determine whether it or the starter itself has a problem, but either way you have to unship it to fix it. If it
is the original and you have a trusted shop, have it rebuilt. Otherwise build it yourself - new solenoid, new brushes, new front bushing and rear
bearing, new bendix if needed, clean the armature contact ring with crocus cloth, and undercut the spaces between the segments slightly with a thin
hacksaw blade. Put it back and go another 40 years.
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
 
Tom,

First Things First:
What you have is not a no-start.
What you have is a No Crank. Big difference.

Now, before you do anything rash (like spend money), take apart each and every cable connection between the engine battery and the starter and back
again. There are two sides to this and they both have to be good. So, if you have not broken and cleaned every connection between the positive post
and the solenoid, (that is only half) and then from the engine block back to the negative post, you still do not know what you have.

That 10MY starter was used on all GM products from the end of the pony express until about last week. It has a know issue in that in engineering
terms, it is too robust. In short, when it actually finally quits working, there is no minor issue. Several times now, I have opened one of these up
(hoping I could just pop in new brushes) and the next thing I wanted to do is put a rag over it and go get a drink. They have to be really shot up to
not draw enough current to dim the headlights.

There is another small inconvenience. The nose on our starter is unique to the 425 transmission that has now been out of production for a little less
than 40 years. So, picking up a fast rebuild can sometimes be another problem.

If you don't have a local automotive electrical shop that is inhabited by a old guy that has been at this a while, you can actually do about an 90%
rebuild without anything you don't have in you toolbox. The kit is available for less than 20$us from Ebay if it does not need a new bendix.

So, guarantee that the power to it is good first.

Be sure to come back and tell us what you found.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
Will do Matt. I’ve checked the cables from the battery but will check all cabling and clean their connections. I have already order the same
starter I had on there. I don’t believe it was the original starter. It was 70$ and the O’Reilly counter guy said if the solenoid went bad the
rest may be close behind. So it made enough sense to me for 70$ to just replace the whole thing. It’s coming up from Springfield Mo on Tuesday. So
I’ll clean all the rest of the connections and make sure they are good and tight.

Thanks guy, I’ll keep you posted on the results.
TG
 
Odds are it is not the starter but the solenoid mounted on the starter. Save the removed one and look at it. You might be able to have a good spare
for $20 by replacing the solenoid.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
Just checking, got the new starter and seem to remember my ignition wire is suppose to go to the S terminal and not the R, correct?

TG
 
I do not know S or R but, the wire to the ignition key goes on the terminal closest to the engine (I think). The other terminal goes to the + side of
the Ignition coil on points ignition systems only.

Easy way to check prior to install is to ground a 12 volt battery to the starter case and apply +12 to the terminal. The correct one will energize
the solenoid and it will move. The incorrect one will do nothing. You could also check it with an ohm meter.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
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