No cranking issue, please advise 78 Birchaven 454 carb na

[toastedpoboy]

My dad and I are having a heck of a time with a no crank condition. Turning the key only activates what sounds like the battery combiner clicking
above the batteries on the firewall. There's 2 of 3 batteries that say 12 volts, a new starter. I've jumped the purple wire at the bottom of the
steering column to bypass the safety switch. Still no power to the starter solenoid. Also, I meter around 12 volts at the starter and jumped the
solenoid with a screwdriver to successful engagement of the starter solenoid and starter. We good there.

I removed and cleaned the big jones plug and slot connections that goe to the back of the fuse cluster. Since the cleaning there, some idiot lights
come on at the dash where they didn't come on before I cleaned up the plug. I've located the red wire that goes down to the starter solenoid from that
plug and wire harness and that wire does not get electricity when the key is turned like it should. I surmised the fuse panel to be the culprit
because all the fuses meter for continuity fine. So maybe there is another ignition fuse somewheres?

I've tried to jump start with a Ram pick up and nothing.

Any help is appreciated! Thanks in advance!

 

[charles boyd]

Sir, above the neutral safety switch with the purple wires toward the steering wheel is the ignition switch. It has 2 screws , loosen a little and
slide switch toward floor and retighten. Could try repositioning tilt column also.

> My dad and I are having a heck of a time with a no crank condition. Turning the key only activates what sounds like the battery combiner clicking
> above the batteries on the firewall. There's 2 of 3 batteries that say 12 volts, a new starter. I've jumped the purple wire at the bottom of the
> steering column to bypass the safety switch. Still no power to the starter solenoid. Also, I meter around 12 volts at the starter and jumped the
> solenoid with a screwdriver to successful engagement of the starter solenoid and starter. We good there.
>
> I removed and cleaned the big jones plug and slot connections that goe to the back of the fuse cluster. Since the cleaning there, some idiot
> lights come on at the dash where they didn't come on before I cleaned up the plug. I've located the red wire that goes down to the starter solenoid
> from that plug and wire harness and that wire does not get electricity when the key is turned like it should. I surmised the fuse panel to be the
> culprit because all the fuses meter for continuity fine. So maybe there is another ignition fuse somewheres?
>
> I've tried to jump start with a Ram pick up and nothing.
>
> Any help is appreciated! Thanks in advance!

--
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee

 

[powwerjon]

Might I suggest that you look at this:

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/gmc-cranking-improve-for-free/p34378-neutral-start-safety-switch-issues.html

J.R. Wright
GMC Great Laker MHC
GMCGL Tech Editor
GMC Eastern States Charter Member
GMCMI
78 GMC Buskirk 29.5’ Stretch
75 GMC Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan

>
> Sir, above the neutral safety switch with the purple wires toward the steering wheel is the ignition switch. It has 2 screws , loosen a little and
> slide switch toward floor and retighten. Could try repositioning tilt column also.
>
>
>
>
>

>> My dad and I are having a heck of a time with a no crank condition. Turning the key only activates what sounds like the battery combiner clicking
>> above the batteries on the firewall. There's 2 of 3 batteries that say 12 volts, a new starter. I've jumped the purple wire at the bottom of the
>> steering column to bypass the safety switch. Still no power to the starter solenoid. Also, I meter around 12 volts at the starter and jumped the
>> solenoid with a screwdriver to successful engagement of the starter solenoid and starter. We good there.
>>
>> I removed and cleaned the big jones plug and slot connections that goe to the back of the fuse cluster. Since the cleaning there, some idiot
>> lights come on at the dash where they didn't come on before I cleaned up the plug. I've located the red wire that goes down to the starter solenoid
>> from that plug and wire harness and that wire does not get electricity when the key is turned like it should. I surmised the fuse panel to be the
>> culprit because all the fuses meter for continuity fine. So maybe there is another ignition fuse somewheres?
>>
>> I've tried to jump start with a Ram pick up and nothing.
>>
>> Any help is appreciated! Thanks in advance!
>
>
> --
> C. Boyd
> 76 Crestmont
> East Tennessee
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

 

[jim kanomata1]

What is the battery voltage? need yo be 13+

On Sat, May 23, 2020 at 7:11 PM John Wright via Gmclist <

> Might I suggest that you look at this:
>
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/gmc-cranking-improve-for-free/p34378-neutral-start-safety-switch-issues.html
>
> J.R. Wright
> GMC Great Laker MHC
> GMCGL Tech Editor
> GMC Eastern States Charter Member
> GMCMI
> 78 GMC Buskirk 29.5’ Stretch
> 75 GMC Avion (Under Reconstruction)
> Michigan
>
>
> > On May 23, 2020, at 10:06 PM, Charles Boyd via Gmclist <

> >
> > Sir, above the neutral safety switch with the purple wires toward the
> steering wheel is the ignition switch. It has 2 screws , loosen a little
> and
> > slide switch toward floor and retighten. Could try repositioning tilt
> column also.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >> My dad and I are having a heck of a time with a no crank condition.
> Turning the key only activates what sounds like the battery combiner
> clicking
> >> above the batteries on the firewall. There's 2 of 3 batteries that say
> 12 volts, a new starter. I've jumped the purple wire at the bottom of the
> >> steering column to bypass the safety switch. Still no power to the
> starter solenoid. Also, I meter around 12 volts at the starter and jumped
> the
> >> solenoid with a screwdriver to successful engagement of the starter
> solenoid and starter. We good there.
> >>
> >> I removed and cleaned the big jones plug and slot connections that goe
> to the back of the fuse cluster. Since the cleaning there, some idiot
> >> lights come on at the dash where they didn't come on before I cleaned
> up the plug. I've located the red wire that goes down to the starter
> solenoid
> >> from that plug and wire harness and that wire does not get electricity
> when the key is turned like it should. I surmised the fuse panel to be the
> >> culprit because all the fuses meter for continuity fine. So maybe there
> is another ignition fuse somewheres?
> >>
> >> I've tried to jump start with a Ram pick up and nothing.
> >>
> >> Any help is appreciated! Thanks in advance!
> >
> >
> > --
> > C. Boyd
> > 76 Crestmont
> > East Tennessee
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502

 

[Ken B]

What I am hearing is you do not have +12 volts on the little wire at the starter solenoid when the key is turned to start. Is this true? Also I do
not understand is what two wires you jumpered at the solenoid to get it to crank. Was it the small wire to the big (about 2 ga) + lead going to the
battery?

When you installed the starter on which of the two terminals did you put the little (about 12 ga) wire on. There is a good chance you put it on the
wrong one.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

 

[Bruce Hart]

I have also witness that the key was not rotated far enough to engage
starter.

On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 3:28 AM Ken Burton via Gmclist <

> What I am hearing is you do not have +12 volts on the little wire at the
> starter solenoid when the key is turned to start. Is this true? Also I do
> not understand is what two wires you jumpered at the solenoid to get it to
> crank. Was it the small wire to the big (about 2 ga) + lead going to the
> battery?
>
> When you installed the starter on which of the two terminals did you put
> the little (about 12 ga) wire on. There is a good chance you put it on the
> wrong one.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class

 

[john r. lebetski]

12.0V is 70% discharged battery state. 12.66V is fully charged. BIG difference.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II

 

[Jim Hupy]

A fully charged lead acid cell @ 70° f. at a s.g. corrected for sea level
in an ideal
state of charge is 2.2 Volts D.C. Multiply that by 6 cells, and you come
up with 13.2 volts. Older batteries that have been in service awhile, won't
measure that high.
But, your charging voltage needs to be higher than that for those
little electrons to replenish those lost through use. So, 12.4 volts is a
low state of charge. Just saying.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Sun, May 24, 2020, 3:01 PM John R. Lebetski via Gmclist <

> 12.0V is 70% discharged battery state. 12.66V is fully charged. BIG
> difference.
> --
> John Lebetski
> Woodstock, IL
> 77 Eleganza II
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

 

[RF_Burns]

So jumping the starter solenoid will crank the engine and the only click you hear comes from up front above the batteries... maybe the combiner. So
that tells use the starter is working but the solenoid is not. Have you checked for solenoid power from the switch at the smaller solenoid terminal?

Also some solenoids have 2 small terminals... the second one was used to power the points ignition system with a full 12v while cranking. If you have
one of these solenoids and connected the cranking power to the wrong terminal, the solenoid will not pull in.

If you have cranking power to the correct terminal, then you must have a faulty starter solenoid.

--
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that

 

[RF_Burns]

You also mention in your title that you have no headlights either, but your have chassis battery voltage.

There is a fusible like that all power to the chassis goes through... including lights and ignition (starter solenoid too). It looks like about a #12
wire going from the chassis Battery Terminal Block on the aluminum plate to the large terminal on the horn relay to the upper right of the terminal
block.

Check that you have power at the horn relay terminal. If you have no voltage there, but you have voltage at the Battery Terminal Block, then the
fusible link wire is open. This is a special fuse wire, so don't replace it with regular wire. Replacements are available at the auto store. Wiring
diagram shows it as being a #16 fusible link wire.


--
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that

 

[johnny]

Do the easy first - make sure the solenoid energize wire is on the correct little terminal on the starter ass'y. There are often two, if you have HEI
one is unused. The correct terminal is the one it's almost impossible to get to. BTDT.

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell

 

[Ken B]

Johnny,

I did the same thing a couple of months back. My "helper" installed the starter and put the wire on the wrong terminal. It took about 30 seconds to
diagnose and about 5 minutes for him to move it. I do not have wheel liners installed so it is easy access.

--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

 

[toastedpoboy]

Thank you. I did try to to move that switch both directions and had no luck. . Perhaps that switch has gone bad? We did experience some intermittent
strating trouble before and now nothing.

 

[toastedpoboy]

Thank you. I had already jumped that white plug with the purple wires at the base of the steering column. It didn't make a difference in this case
though. Thank you very much for the suggestion.

 

[toastedpoboy]

> What I am hearing is you do not have +12 volts on the little wire at the starter solenoid when the key is turned to start. Is this true?
>
> Yessir it's true.
>
> Also I do not understand is what two wires you jumpered at the solenoid to get it to crank. Was it the small wire to the big (about 2 ga) + lead
> going to the battery?
>
> Not two wires per se, but the main power cable from the battery to the starter and the smaller ignition wire to the "s" terminal. I crossed them
> with a screwdriver to complete the connection. This is an old school test of any starter while installed.
>
> When you installed the starter on which of the two terminals did you put the little (about 12 ga) wire on. There is a good chance you put it on
> the wrong one.

Since the problem existed before the new starter, we can rule out a bad new starter and using the incorrect terminal on the solenoid. The old starter
has a busted solenoid housing and all the terminals were wiggly to the touch. I took it to the parts store and it didn't test reliably so we just
bought a new one out of an abundance of caution. Thank you very much for the tips!

 

[toastedpoboy]

While my dad's meter is fairly old, it's set up for construction work, not automotive so the DC side is a little harder to read with these tick marks
on the sweeper scale not particularly easy to read. Seems like a solid 12 but could easily be 13 too when each tick on the scale does not represent 1
volt at a time. Make sense? And using a full size truck battery with jumper cables would have overcome a lower than 13v host battery on the RV, no?

Thank you for chiming in.

On Sat, May 23, 2020 at 7:11 PM John Wright via Gmclist <

> Might I suggest that you look at this:
>
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/gmc-cranking-improve-for-free/p34378-neutral-start-safety-switch-issues.html
>
> J.R. Wright
> GMC Great Laker MHC
> GMCGL Tech Editor
> GMC Eastern States Charter Member
> GMCMI
> 78 GMC Buskirk 29.5’ Stretch
> 75 GMC Avion (Under Reconstruction)
> Michigan
>
>

>>
>> Sir, above the neutral safety switch with the purple wires toward the
> steering wheel is the ignition switch. It has 2 screws , loosen a little
> and
>> slide switch toward floor and retighten. Could try repositioning tilt
> column also.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

>>> My dad and I are having a heck of a time with a no crank condition.
> Turning the key only activates what sounds like the battery combiner
> clicking
>>> above the batteries on the firewall. There's 2 of 3 batteries that say
> 12 volts, a new starter. I've jumped the purple wire at the bottom of the
>>> steering column to bypass the safety switch. Still no power to the
> starter solenoid. Also, I meter around 12 volts at the starter and jumped
> the
>>> solenoid with a screwdriver to successful engagement of the starter
> solenoid and starter. We good there.
>>>
>>> I removed and cleaned the big jones plug and slot connections that goe
> to the back of the fuse cluster. Since the cleaning there, some idiot
>>> lights come on at the dash where they didn't come on before I cleaned
> up the plug. I've located the red wire that goes down to the starter
> solenoid
>>> from that plug and wire harness and that wire does not get electricity
> when the key is turned like it should. I surmised the fuse panel to be the
>>> culprit because all the fuses meter for continuity fine. So maybe there
> is another ignition fuse somewheres?
>>>
>>> I've tried to jump start with a Ram pick up and nothing.
>>>
>>> Any help is appreciated! Thanks in advance!
>>
>>
>> --
>> C. Boyd
>> 76 Crestmont
>> East Tennessee
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
mailto:jimk
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
[/quote]

 

[toastedpoboy]

Thank you. Your suggestion really sounds like it hits the nail on the head.

I'm going to search for that fusable link wire and terminal connections. I'm not clear on specifically where you are referring to, however I'm going
to look for it with your description.

Thank you. That really sounds like ed zachary the issue.

voltage.

There is a fusible like that all power to the chassis goes through... including lights and ignition (starter solenoid too). It looks like about a #12
wire going from the chassis Battery Terminal Block on the aluminum plate to the large terminal on the horn relay to the upper right of the terminal
block.

Check that you have power at the horn relay terminal. If you have no voltage there, but you have voltage at the Battery Terminal Block, then the
fusible link wire is open. This is a special fuse wire, so don't replace it with regular wire. Replacements are available at the auto store. Wiring
diagram shows it as being a #16 fusible link wire.

[/quote]

 

[toastedpoboy]

> So jumping the starter solenoid will crank the engine and the only click you hear comes from up front above the batteries... maybe the combiner.
>
> Pops put a new combiner on, same issue.
>
> So that tells use the starter is working but the solenoid is not.
>
> The solenoid engages, motor spins both on the bench and installed.
>
> Have checked for solenoid power from the switch at the smaller solenoid terminal?
>
> There's no power to the solenoid when the key is turned. Using a screwdriver to bridge the terminals gets the solenoid and starter to engage as
> intended, but the key doesnt.
>
> Also some solenoids have 2 small terminals... the second one was used to power the points ignition system with a full 12v while cranking. If you
> have one of these solenoids and connected the cranking power to the wrong terminal, the solenoid will not pull in.
>
> This issue existed after years of successful operation. Then it failed intermittently and eventually stopped. The starter terminals were all
> connected correctly before the issue started and the terminals are connected correctly otherwise the starter would not crank.
>
> If you have cranking power to the correct terminal, then you must have a faulty starter solenoid.
>
> I faulty solenoid is not at issue here. That would mean that the old starter soloenoid was bad, the new solenoid is bad and that the ignition wire
> going from the key to the terminal on the solenoid is energized when the key is turned. So, no.
>
> Thank you for your assistance.

 

[Carl Stouffer]

Do what Chuck Boyd suggested, adjust the ignition switch on the lower column below the dash.
--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member

 

[Jim Hupy]

Quick check step. Get in the drivers seat. Tilt the steering wheel all the
way towards the windshield. If it starts, then you have found the problem.
The operating link between the ignition key and the start switch at the
base of the column is out of adjustment, OR, the switch itself has failed.
Easy fix. Readjust, or replace.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or

On Tue, May 26, 2020, 7:34 AM Carl Stouffer via Gmclist <

> Do what Chuck Boyd suggested, adjust the ignition switch on the lower
> column below the dash.
> --
> Carl Stouffer
> '75 ex Palm Beach
> Tucson, AZ.
> Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive,
> Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American
> Eagles,
> Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>