No crank

T

tom geiger

New member
Dec 31, 2006
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Ok, in true form my GMC has a no crank at the camp ground dump station. No head lights, no turning over. This is after it started many times and ran
fine after I put the new starter in. I did discover the starter wire had laid up against the header and burnt the jacket. I’ve spliced in a new
wire and checked all connections. I was told that the battery was registering fully charged by someone trying to give me a jump. It acts like it has
no juice. Any ideas. Just was told the radio works.

Waiting for a tow truck unless there is a burnt fuse involved?
Thanks
Tom
 
> Ok, in true form my GMC has a no crank at the camp ground dump station. No head lights, no turning over. This is after it started many times and
> ran fine after I put the new starter in. I did discover the starter wire had laid up against the header and burnt the jacket. I’ve spliced in a
> new wire and checked all connections. I was told that the battery was registering fully charged by someone trying to give me a jump. It acts like
> it has no juice. Any ideas. Just was told the radio works.
>
> Waiting for a tow truck unless there is a burnt fuse involved?
> Thanks
> Tom

Tom,

Real quick, There is a small piece of wire between the horn relay and the battery junction. That is a fusible link. The insulation is special so it
does not burn. Pull on it. If if comes apart, replace it.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
Update, on the negative ground from battery, I’ve got the connection tighten and I have the ignition on and the blower fan comes on but when I try
to start it the fan goes off and additional tries on starting it is dead.

TG
 
Did you find the fusible link?

--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
Where are you right now and
Do you have a Black's list?
Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
I do not have a black list. I’m up in a small state park near Weston Mo, Weston State Park.

Matt, I’m not sure on the horn relay, do see the power junction but no fusible link that I can tell. The other inline fuses are looking to be
fine.

The strange thing is the blower fan comes on for a brief moment but then stops when I try to start. I’ve checked all grounds and they’re tight.
 
You don't have a sigfile, so I don't know what your coach is, but there should be just one (1) small wire off the junction block.
While you look for that, I will find your location and try to work the Black list for help.
Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
Tom,

The Kansas black list is kind of thin but I left a message with one.

Do you have a cell that I or others might call you?

My home Nr 7 three fore 7 five 3 five nothng five fore

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
Is there anyway to jump start this without the solenoid up top at the battery area?

Thanks
TG

Just have to get it to start and back home it goes.
 
Tom,

To narrow the search, jump between the battery terminal on the starter and
the adjacent "S"tarter terminal. If the engine turns over, try turning the
ignition ON. It may start and allow you to get to a better work location.

Ken H.

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 5:42 PM tom geiger via Gmclist <

> Ok, in true form my GMC has a no crank at the camp ground dump station.
> No head lights, no turning over. This is after it started many times and ran
> fine after I put the new starter in. I did discover the starter wire had
> laid up against the header and burnt the jacket. I’ve spliced in a new
> wire and checked all connections. I was told that the battery was
> registering fully charged by someone trying to give me a jump. It acts
> like it has
> no juice. Any ideas. Just was told the radio works.
>
> Waiting for a tow truck unless there is a burnt fuse involved?
> Thanks
> Tom
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
I'm not sure I understand your question -- are you referring to the boost
relay above the forward batteries? That connects on one side to the engine
battery and on the other side to the house battery. Depressing the Boost
switch on the dash should close that relay, connecting the batteries in
parallel. That's the first thing I'd try in a no-start situation.

Ken H.

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 7:24 PM tom geiger via Gmclist <

> Is there anyway to jump start this without the solenoid up top at the
> battery area?
>
> Thanks
> TG
>
> Just have to get it to start and back home it goes.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Ok update, the GMC is getting towed back to storage and I’ll get back to looking at this and let you guys know.

PS; I tried to jump the solenoid and the starter tried to turn for a brief second amd when I hit the hot feed again it acted like is had no juice to
it. So its like a ground or something is overloading something and it cuts off power to the starter. Kinda strange. I check and retighten all the
wire connection but nothing changed.

Heading to storage now,
Thanks all, will get back to this
TG
 
Sir, your symptoms are indicating a bad connection from battery to starter or battery to ground.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p64954-bad-cable.html
Have you tried Holding the battery boost switch on the dash down while starting?

> I do not have a black list. I’m up in a small state park near Weston Mo, Weston State Park.
>
> Matt, I’m not sure on the horn relay, do see the power junction but no fusible link that I can tell. The other inline fuses are looking to be
> fine.
>
> The strange thing is the blower fan comes on for a brief moment but then stops when I try to start. I’ve checked all grounds and they’re
> tight.
>
> Not far from home. Kinda giving up on it and having it towed back to storage, that is if I can get anything out of my roadside service, its been
> 3 hours now and still have not got anyone coming.

--
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
 
Tom,
The fusible link looks like an ordinary wire nothing out of the ordinary.
In this picture look on the left side and middle of photo. You will see a
large diameter red wire that connects to a post with other wires. There is
a small black diameter wire (16ga) that gets lost under the group of wires
to the right. This is your fusible link. It connects to a separate stud
that is part of the horn relay.

Fusible link
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BEL784695?partTypeName=Fusible+Link&keywordInput=gm+fusible+link

Horn relay
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/ECHHR133?partTypeName=Horn+Relay&keywordInput=horn+relay

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 7:19 PM Charles Boyd via Gmclist <

> Sir, your symptoms are indicating a bad connection from battery to starter
> or battery to ground.
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p64954-bad-cable.html
> Have you tried Holding the battery boost switch on the dash down while
> starting?
>
>
>
>
>
>

> > I do not have a black list. I’m up in a small state park near Weston
> Mo, Weston State Park.
> >
> > Matt, I’m not sure on the horn relay, do see the power junction but no
> fusible link that I can tell. The other inline fuses are looking to be
> > fine.
> >
> > The strange thing is the blower fan comes on for a brief moment but then
> stops when I try to start. I’ve checked all grounds and they’re
> > tight.
> >
> > Not far from home. Kinda giving up on it and having it towed back to
> storage, that is if I can get anything out of my roadside service, its been
> > 3 hours now and still have not got anyone coming.
>
> --
> C. Boyd
> 76 Crestmont
> East Tennessee
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
 
Tom,
Forgot the photo of the fusible link in place
www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/combiner-to-diode-isolator/p24994-adding-a-combiner-to-a-stock-diode-isolator.html

> Tom,
> The fusible link looks like an ordinary wire nothing out of the ordinary.
> In this picture look on the left side and middle of photo. You will see a
> large diameter red wire that connects to a post with other wires. There is
> a small black diameter wire (16ga) that gets lost under the group of wires
> to the right. This is your fusible link. It connects to a separate stud
> that is part of the horn relay.
>
>
> Fusible link
>
> https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BEL784695?partTypeName=Fusible+Link&keywordInput=gm+fusible+link
>
> Horn relay
>
> https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/ECHHR133?partTypeName=Horn+Relay&keywordInput=horn+relay
>
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 7:19 PM Charles Boyd via Gmclist <

>
>> Sir, your symptoms are indicating a bad connection from battery to
>> starter or battery to ground.
>> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p64954-bad-cable.html
>> Have you tried Holding the battery boost switch on the dash down while
>> starting?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

>> > I do not have a black list. I’m up in a small state park near Weston
>> Mo, Weston State Park.
>> >
>> > Matt, I’m not sure on the horn relay, do see the power junction but no
>> fusible link that I can tell. The other inline fuses are looking to be
>> > fine.
>> >
>> > The strange thing is the blower fan comes on for a brief moment but
>> then stops when I try to start. I’ve checked all grounds and they’re
>> > tight.
>> >
>> > Not far from home. Kinda giving up on it and having it towed back to
>> storage, that is if I can get anything out of my roadside service, its been
>> > 3 hours now and still have not got anyone coming.
>>
>> --
>> C. Boyd
>> 76 Crestmont
>> East Tennessee
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
>
> --
> Bruce Hart
> 1976 Palm Beach
> Milliken, Co
> GMC=Got More Class
>
>

--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
 
This sounds like the common poor connection of a battery cable or a fusible link.

Find the fusible line and add a second wire (12 or 14 gauge) across it. It can even be a heavy wire with alligator clips. You do not have to remove
the original wire to do this. If that does not work move on the the battery cables.

I just shot this problem on a garden tractor tonight and I have seen it several times on GMCs. If the battery cables are clean, as in wire brush
clean and shiny, it still does not mean they are making a good enough electrical connection to carry a couple of hundred amps needed while starting.
They will some times carry a lighter loads like lights or instrumentation.

First remove both battery cables and shine them clean on both ends with a battery or wire brush. Clean the battery posts the same way. Then take a
flat and rat tail file and remove a little but of metal on all of the cleaned shiny surfaces. Reinstall and tighten the cables with their freshly
exposed metal surface of these cables.

On the one tonight it was failing on the positive cable. I also saw this on my coach on the negative cable. It can happen either polarity and either
cable end. I had one coach that I worked on that was so intermittent that I removed every cable and sanded all of them with coarse sand paper. The
owner never had that problem again.

Those are my thoughts.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
Well, got the motorhome back to storage, that was a nice amount of money on a tow bill. I have roadside insurance with the American Family Insurance
that I have all my insurance with but that will not be the case anymore. Pretty inept operation at least on the dispatch part of the process. Was
not impressed at all. They never found anyone in the area to tow. We had to find a tow service ourselves and submit the bill. Platte City a small
town near by is right next to I-29 and has plenty of tow and mechanic services for 18 wheeler trucks so I don’t what the heck that dispatcher was
doing. Anyhow will be looking at Good Sam’s or something of the like. It took 5 hours to get a tow truck out there. I can see this if I was
stranded out in the middle of nowhere but we were 10 mins from Platte. So that added to the frustration.

So back to the wiring. I think I follow what you guys are saying and I will go thru all the connection and clean. The negative ground is going to a
spot on the underside of the engine block. Is there another better place to ground. That spot seemed to be a little oily. I tried to clean that
connection as best I could but was not confident in the connection. In fact I saw old wiring and old relays all in the area of the isolator. What do
you guys do for getting that in better condition? Is there wiring harnesses for all this stuff? I’ve always felt the scariest gremlins on this
coach has been the electrical. And that coupled with my history of not doing electrical very well does not results in good outcomes. But if I dig
into this was wondering about getting it all cleaned up. Like some of the connections were looking pretty crusty.

Thank you all for the immediate help when I was in the situation. We’ve always joked about “Sugar Pie” over the years. We imagine her as a
Janis Joplin type that had some pretty rough partying times back in the 70’s and that when I got her is when she went into rehab. So I think she
even the score a bit with our jokes leaving us stranded at the dump station. On the bright side of it, everyone pulling into the little park were
very understanding and thank God there was another water filling location further down the park. So no dumping needed. If she did this on Sunday when
we were leaving, total different story.

Anyhow, I’ll get back to this when things cool off. Right now pretty hot to work on her.

Thanks all,
TG
 
When you jumped the connection at the starter, you narrowed the tested items down to the bare minimum. Rest of the coach wiring is not involved. Just
the starter, the cable feeding it (which should be directly from the battery terminal),the ground cable and connection to engine block, the battery
connections themselves, and 1 more thing that is rare but has been the problem for me once: THE BUSS BAR INSIDE THE BATTERY. Happened to a few
customers and relatives too. It will pass an electronic type of load test but not a real loaded starter motor. It kinda reheals itself with the acid
and makes a full voltage connection again but breaks down under high current. Intermittancy of your breakdown and lots of mechanical action at the
battery terminals (wrenching)are the exact symptoms and causes, along with cheaply made batteries.
--
Terry Kelpien

ASE Master Technician

73 Glacier 260

Smithfield, Va.
 
Well, the weird thing was on that solenoid jump I did is that it briefly activated the starter but then subsequent attempts to jump the started
resulted in no spark or current, completely dead. But it seemed to come back after a minute or so. It seemed like a heavy load happened which
initiated some kind of surge protector to shut down all power. Same happened when I heard the defrost blower fan going when I would turn the ignition
key to run position, but as soon as I turned it to the start position everything would shut down.

TG
76 Eleganza 2
Kansas City, Mo
 
Yep...BTDT. Swap out your crank battery for known good from another car to continue testing/diagnosing/solving. Counter-wrench on terminals to avoid
stressing the buss bars inside batteries.
--
Terry Kelpien

ASE Master Technician

73 Glacier 260

Smithfield, Va.
 
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