New (to me) 76 Eleganza with fuel issue

P

Palmerdad

New member
Sep 24, 2016
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I bought an Eleganza a month ago that needs interior work but is pretty mechanically sound (po did a lot of work). One of the things he had done was
the fuel tanks cleaned and replacement fuel senders put in. The replacements don't seem to work worth a darn. The fuel level stayed full forever and
then dropped fast. The aux one seemed to always be a bit lower than the main one as well.

I wanted to run out the old fuel and fill it with ethanol free gas before winter. I read up on the 5 gallon "low fuel" warning light on the main tank
and then the 7 to 9 gallons that should be left in the Aux tank once the main was empty. I ran it until the light came on and took note of the
mileage expecting to get another 40 or 50 miles at best. I also switched to the aux tank at one point and noted that the low fuel light came back on
for this tank as well. 72 miles after the main tank's light came on I started sputtering. I switched to the aux tank which restored power for about
50 yards and then started to choke out too. I pulled off the road and tried to restart on either tank. No luck. I put in the 5 gallons of ethanol
free fuel that I had been carrying just in case. She started up and ran the few miles home (on either tank) with no problems.

What would you say the problem is? I'm guessing something got installed wrong by the PO? What would you check?
 
I'd check the fuel lines for correct hookup - each tank to an input of the selector valve, and the valve actually switching tank to tank.

--johnny

--
'76 23' transmode Norris upfit, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.

"Sometimes I wonder what tomorrow's gonna bring when I think about my dirty life and times" --Warren Zevon
 
Yep. Selector valve is not switching completely. Probably sucking from
both tanks at the same time.

> I'd check the fuel lines for correct hookup - each tank to an input of the
> selector valve, and the valve actually switching tank to tank.
 
Should a defective selector valve be replaced or could it just be left and used as is? I guess I'm wondering if there would be any other adverse
issues beyond the ability to switch and use the tanks as designed?
 
Ya just don't have a reserve. Not that big a deal, imo.

> Should a defective selector valve be replaced or could it just be left and
> used as is? I guess I'm wondering if there would be any other adverse
> issues beyond the ability to switch and use the tanks as designed?
>
 
It needs to be replaced. It is NOT rebuildable. It it has failed so that both tank are online (stuck in the middle) you will run out of gas even thou you have fuel in the tanks. Once the level gets where it can suck air you lose!

The fuel selector valve is available from the following.

http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/858
and
Napa Online
https://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/p/CRB22057/CRB22057
or
https://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/p/MPF32057/MPF32057
and
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/BWD0/FSV1/N2000.oap?ck=Search_fuel+tank+selector+valve+-+universal_1225729_3436&keyword=fuel+tank+selector+valve+-+universal
or
http://tinyurl.com/ht2mkqn

Check your local auto parts too, just take a picture or the valve itself and they should be able to match it.

JR Wright
Michigan

>
> Should a defective selector valve be replaced or could it just be left and used as is? I guess I'm wondering if there would be any other adverse
> issues beyond the ability to switch and use the tanks as designed?
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Hadn't thought about it that way. So you're saying my reserve tank actually did have fuel in it today but since it started getting air from the main
tank it acted as though both were empty?
 
Or, you could get a low pressure electric fuel pump and power it with the
wire from the selector valve.
Bypass the selector valve with the hose from the rear tank, place a check
valve prior a tee, then on to the feed line.
Take the hose from the front tank off the selector valve, run it directly
to input side of electric pump.
Run hose from pump output to the tee.

The advantage to this is to have a backup plan for the inevitable vapor
lock situation. At the first hint of vapor lock, hit your Auxiliary Fuel
switch which now will run the electric pump, thus pressurizing the line.
No more vapor lock.

This is also a great way to push fuel to the carb before attempting to
start after it's been sitting a week or more.

bdub

> Ya just don't have a reserve. Not that big a deal, imo.
>

>
>> Should a defective selector valve be replaced or could it just be left
>> and used as is? I guess I'm wondering if there would be any other adverse
>> issues beyond the ability to switch and use the tanks as designed?
>>
>
 
Best of all, IMHO, is to remove the selector valve and replace it with an
online filter and a Carter 4070 electric pump for each tank. Connect their
outputs with 2 check valves and a tee. Power them with a circuit breaker
and a SPOT relay controlled by the Tank Selector Switch. Bypass the
mechanical fuel pump, remove it, and block it's mounting hole.

You'll gain pump and filter redundancy, and vapor lock protection while
eliminating a very potentially troublesome selector valve and an old
mechanical pump. At a pretty reasonable cost and difficulty.

The location of the electric pumps is open to debate. In the tanks may be
best for vapor lock protection, at the cost of difficult installation or
replacement. Immediately ahead of the forward tank is easiest, but
subjects the pumps to heat from the engine and mufflers. Outside the left
frame rail improves the cooling, at the cost of more installation
difficulty and collision damage hazard (this is my choice).

Ken H.

> Hadn't thought about it that way. So you're saying my reserve tank
> actually did have fuel in it today but since it started getting air from
> the main
> tank it acted as though both were empty?
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
That's an interesting thought. Someone had installed an electric fuel pump and a fuel filter (can't remember if it was before or after the selector
valve now) but then it was unhooked from the system and just left bolted on. Which gets me thinking that the fuel filter probably hasn't had
attention since who knows how long... add that to the To-Do list! There are also two non-original switches in the cab that don't seem to do anything.
I'm thinking one was for some fog lights that aren't working, maybe the other was for the electric fuel pump??? Either way, I like the idea of
having an electric pump in the system somewhere.
 
Palmerdad,

Welcome to the group, family, cult, asylum....

Yes, there is every indication that the selector valve is toast. I'm not sure if it is the alcohol that kills them or just the age. The biggest
problem there is that there is no identical replacement. The only part I have found is upside down and backwards from the original. This means it
has to be mounted to the underside of the floor and a ground wire added. This may be the simplest fix, but others have told you that adding pumps and
moving the system is a good idea, and it is, but it is also more involved and in our climate it is less important.

The reason I like the system as built is that it allows very specific fuel management. While I do this, I may be one of the very few that regularly
takes on in excess of 45 gallons (and have done several 50+) in a fill. This does take knowing your coach. At least if PO redid the fuel system,
that is one thing that you have in good order.

There is little advantage to alcohol free fuel for storage, and in fact, I might advise against it. There is no getting around alcohol contaminated
fuel if you travel just about anywhere. The fact that it will absorb and hold moisture is of value in storage. The thing I will advise is that you
store with the tanks as full as practical. This is to keep the air space that encourages "breathing" and inhaling moisture as much as possible. Also
resist starting either the coach or the generator (APU) when either won't be run long enough and hard enough to get seriously warm. The thermal cycle
and moisture that are involved is damaging. If you are worried about them sitting, learn how to "fog" them from a local boat person.

Just a word here about going over the the Mackinac Bridge, Hang onto your shorts.... They charge by the vehicle height and the axle. They have no
concept of the fact that the pair of tires on the rear are actually on a single axle (by SAE definitions), they are just in tandem and not dual. In
numerous exchanges with the authority, they insist that the toll is "weight based". They will hear no argument and accept no reasoning, they just
want our money. They seem to want to encourage tour bus operators at our expense.

Before you get much farther, please build and enable a sigfile. Go to Control Panel/Account Settings and scroll down. Fill in a real name (so when
you meet other owner - and you will, they will know who you are), a short about the coach and important mods (there are year and model variations that
do matter), and the geographic reference (the half that read this as e-mail didn't get the header that says "Traverse City"). This way, when you need
help, we will all have a better idea where to start and someone that might be in striking range will know if he is. Remember to click "update" at the
bottom.

Finding your way here, you are now a member of a rare community. These are very supportive and helping people (just in case you didn't figure that
out already), and there is amazing power that can be brought to bare if you are in need. Given your location, you should look up the GMC Great Lakers
chapter and try to get to a rally when you can. There my be other chapter's rallies in range, but they will probably require going around a lake or
crossing into Canada. As said, this is a rare community. The only other I know of is that of the watermen that are my world. For that reason, I
have taken to welcoming new owners much as a new owner of vessel would be welcomed there. So,

May the Good Lord bless this coach and all that set forth within here.

Welcome James,

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
'73 Glacier 23 - Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brake with Applied Control Arms
Now with both true Keyless and remote entry
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
The cost of crossing the Big Mac is a fixed cost that has increased over the years since we bought our first GMC, used to be around $9 when we first started going across in 1998 with the GMC and we didn’t tow at that time and the toad would have added another $2.50. It is done by axle count, which means if there is a tire there is an axle, there is no argument, pay and drive, you pay the same as the trucks, buses and step and cube vans per axle. The cost for the GMC is $5 per axle or $15 if you're not towing and a $4 adder if you are towing for a total of $19, you don’t save anything by driving your toad separately. For those of you who have an adverse reaction to toll cost the cost is much cheaper that the drive around. I do a round trip 1 once or twice a year, because the UP is a wonderful place to see and visit.

http://www.mackinacbridge.org/fare-schedule-9/

JR Wright
Michigan

>
> Palmerdad,
>
> Welcome to the group, family, cult, asylum....
>
>
> Just a word here about going over the the Mackinac Bridge, Hang onto your shorts.... They charge by the vehicle height and the axle. They have no
> concept of the fact that the pair of tires on the rear are actually on a single axle (by SAE definitions), they are just in tandem and not dual. In
> numerous exchanges with the authority, they insist that the toll is "weight based". They will hear no argument and accept no reasoning, they just
> want our money. They seem to want to encourage tour bus operators at our expense.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> '73 Glacier 23 - Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brake with Applied Control Arms
> Now with both true Keyless and remote entry
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Take Ken Henderson's advise it is a good way to go. It is the way I went with the pumps outside the frame rails vapor lock stopped happening . Also if
I might add run the fuel line from the pump outputs to the carburetor from the rear of the motor rather then the front and insulate the fuel line from
the pumps to the carb.
--
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
 
> Take Ken Henderson's advise it is a good way to go. It is the way I went with the pumps outside the frame rails vapor lock stopped happening .
> Also if I might add run the fuel line from the pump outputs to the carburetor from the rear of the motor rather then the front and insulate the fuel
> line from the pumps to the carb.

I started to do that, but the filters leaked where I drilled the holes to run the parking brake cables though them. ;)
Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
'73 Glacier 23 - Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brake with Applied Control Arms
Now with both true Keyless and remote entry
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
> The cost of crossing the Big Mac is a fixed cost that has increased over the years since we bought our first GMC, used to be around $9 when we
> first started going across in 1998 with the GMC and we didn't tow at that time and the toad would have added another $2.50. It is done by axle
> count, which means if there is a tire there is an axle, there is no argument, pay and drive, you pay the same as the trucks, buses and step and cube
> vans per axle. The cost for the GMC is $5 per axle or $15 if you're not towing and a $4 adder if you are towing for a total of $19, you don't save
> anything by driving your toad separately. For those of you who have an adverse reaction to toll cost the cost is much cheaper that the drive
> around. I do a round trip 1 once or twice a year, because the UP is a wonderful place to see and visit.
>
> http://www.mackinacbridge.org/fare-schedule-9/
>
> JR Wright

JR,

You are right, "You Pay, You Drive" and no argument is allowed. But if our coaches are 3-Axle why did anybody sue GMC for fraud? Your coach was sold
with documents specifying a 160" wheel base. If it is a 3-axle vehicle, then the wheel base is 180". I realize that we are no longer a country of
laws and there is no going back there now, but there were laws once that everybody was supposed to be subject to them.

It is not true for you or the OP, but if I am at the Soo, I can pay the toll at the International Bridge, go around the Lake Huron and Georgian Bay
and cross back at the Ambassador Bridge and break even. The big problem here is that I hate customs at Detroit.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
'73 Glacier 23 - Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brake with Applied Control Arms
Now with both true Keyless and remote entry
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
Have a look here:

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6198-cane-9-creek-rv-park-heflin-2c-al.html

Two reasonably priced electric pumps, internal check valves, been about 3K miles without problems or vapor lock, and it's returnable to stock beside
the road in 30 minutes if you were to need to. One caveat - ditch the filters that come with the pumps and use the Wix exact replacements instead.

--johnny
--
'76 23' transmode Norris upfit, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.

"Sometimes I wonder what tomorrow's gonna bring when I think about my dirty life and times" --Warren Zevon
 
I'll check out those pumps, thanks! When we picked up the GMC, my daughter and I took the Badger back from Manitowoc to Ludington. It was my first
time crossing on the ferry and I would highly recommend it. Great experience.
 
> I need to make an Amazon order and am wondering if this selector is the right one for our GMC's? (I understand the mounting bracket will be
> slightly different.) The posts are for 5/16" fuel lines.
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Standard-Motor-Products-FV1T-Selector/dp/B005ETOVZM/ref=pd_sim_263_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=T2GFBZGWE575DATYGDB7

James,

Quite distressingly, that seems to be the only three port available these days.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
'73 Glacier 23 - Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brake with Applied Control Arms
Now with both true Keyless and remote entry
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
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