New RV Quality

Yep, it's pervasive in the industry these days, travel trailers, 5th wheels, and motorhomes.

Most of yall know I have a SOB, a 2003 Fleetwood Discovery diesel pusher. It has been (KNOCK ON WOOD), very reliable but has enough issues to keep me
in projects. My problems are more age related than quality related however although my coach was the first year for full body paint and Fleetwood had
some quality issues that have resulted in most 2003's having peeling clearcoat.

I belong to a Discovery regional group similar to the Dixielanders. In the club we have 61 coaches from 97 (the Discovery first year) to 2018. There
are quite a few original owners of the first generation Discoverys still around. They report that there were very few initial quality issues. Most
the 3-5 year old coaches are pretty well debugged but I'd NEVER buy a new one...even if I hit the lottery. The aggravation level would probably cause
me to do something I'd regret.

Two years ago, two of my friends and club members both bought a 2016 Discovery from General RV during the yearly LazyDays rally in January. One of
the coaches lives about 5 miles from me. They've had a few issues but nothing serious and most caused by the idiots at Bankston RV in Huntsville who
break 3 things for every thing they work on. The other coach went to Charleston SC and they are IDENTICAL and only a few numbers apart on the VIN.

The second coach has been a disaster. They went to Alaska and had so many leaks they had to travel with the generator on so they could run the dryer
and dry the towels they had on top of the dashboard because the windshields leaked so bad. They came back with a 4 page typed, single page punch list
and left it at the factory in Decatur IN for 2 months. The quality difference is astounding even down to the neatness of the wiring in the electric
bay. On a recent rolling rally with them, they lost a starter (Warranty) and the pump motor on the leveling jacks. I helped him diagnose both
problems. The complexity of the systems increases the difficulty but when you have 12V on the motor or starter lugs and nothing happens, they be
bad!

The pump motor was 3 weeks old and was a Lippert (bought out PowerGear) component installed by Tom Johnson Camping world. My friend had paid a small
fortune for expedited shipping because they were leaving on this trip. When we diagnosed the problem, he called Tom Johnson and asked them to have
the motor on hand when they got there today. They said no problem and actually did order it from Fleetwood who ordered it from Lippert (why they
didn't order it direct from Lippert makes no sense to me and everyone who touches it adds their markup)! Anyway, they arrive at Camping World today
to find no motor. The part was not in stock at Fleetwood and Fleetwood didn't reorder part.. and didn't let Tom Johnson know plus no one followed up
on either party. It's supposed to be there Monday and Camping World is supposed to install it (warranty) and DELIVER the coach 200 miles to my
friend.

I wouldn't let Camping World work on a shovel and not just because of the owners politics. Fleetwood screwed up but the bigger screw up was Camping
World for not getting a confirmation or doing a followup.
--
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama

Had 5 over the years. Still have the first a 76 that will be rebodied into an art deco car hauler.

http://www.bdub.net/pinkerton/

'03 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
 
And I was sure I was the only GMC owner to read RVTravel.

Actually, the horror stories of new RVs are all over the web. A few years back, we ended up at a KOA for a partial day hold (long story of little
interest) and we were in the pool with three other couples. One MH and 2 5ers and the three regaled us with warranty stories. Mary was unaware of
this.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
No, I'm another RVTravel reader. The GMC was a no brainer for me but I'm an old car nut. I have a friend that thinks I'm crazy but he has over
$250,000 in his 5th wheel and truck. It's parked next to the house waiting on parts and the 2 year old truck just got a new frontend.

> And I was sure I was the only GMC owner to read RVTravel.
> Matt

--
Patti & Jerry Burt
73 Gmc 26' Canyon Lands -
77 Palm Beach
Members: FMCA - GMCMI - GMCWS - Pacific Cruisers - 49ers
 
There are SO many stories about new equipment being unrepairable for months and months. With the money being spent, you would expect the parts availability would be a non issue. So many thanks to our parts suppliers who keep us ALL on the road, their contribution cannot be measured, support them at every turn.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Jerry Burt"
To: "gmclist"
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2017 8:45:26 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] New RV Quality

No, I'm another RVTravel reader. The GMC was a no brainer for me but I'm an old car nut. I have a friend that thinks I'm crazy but he has over
$250,000 in his 5th wheel and truck. It's parked next to the house waiting on parts and the 2 year old truck just got a new frontend.

> And I was sure I was the only GMC owner to read RVTravel.
> Matt

--
Patti & Jerry Burt
73 Gmc 26' Canyon Lands -
77 Palm Beach
Members: FMCA - GMCMI - GMCWS - Pacific Cruisers - 49ers

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My next door neighbor has had an immobile D150 for a couple years. I wonder what he wants forit..... old square front.

--johnny
--
76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
 
So this is probably not the best spot to chat about what Coachmen passed off for wiring in my Birchaven ;)
--
77 Birchaven 23 w/ 455
Reno, NV
 
My royale was redone in 2002, lets just say they were good cabinet makers, but stupid when doing plumbing, and dangerous when trying to do propane!

________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of John Yurtinus
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2017 12:12:42 AM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] New RV Quality

So this is probably not the best spot to chat about what Coachmen passed off for wiring in my Birchaven ;)
--
77 Birchaven 23 w/ 455
Reno, NV

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A bit of a different take on this subject. Between 1998 when we purchased our first motor home, a Beaver Patriot, and now, motor homes became longer, much heavier and the sides have been penetrated in numerous places for slides. None of these bode well for something that lives in an earth quake zone!

Construction methods didn’t change much so most are still a floor mounted to a chassis, walls fastened to the floor, a roof fastened to the walls with a front cap (penetrated for a monster windshield) and rear cap about the only anti-rombus agent present.

When we purchased, a big coach was 40 feet, had one slide, weighed between 30k and 40k pounds, had no tag axle and offered reasonable net carrying capacity. Now a big coach is up to 45 feet long, pushes 50k pounds, has tag axles and still may not have much carry capacity at all. Ever more batteries to power the electrical loads, and ever bigger engines to carry the weight all add up to ever more flex raising havoc with the structure.

No wonder the apparent quality has diminished.

Jerry
Jerry Work
Kerby, OR
 
Re: The quality problems buyers see.

I suspect many manufacturers use the philosophy the founder/president of
Safari (previously a VP of Beaver) presented in response to my, and other
recent buyers', complaints at the owners meeting in 1998, almost verbatim:
"We allocate $10,000 for warranty work on each and every coach we sell.
That's more economical than setting up a dedicated quality control
department...". HONESTLY!!! Can you imagine anyone having the audacity to
admit to a room full of owners that they have that little respect for those
owners and their time? Wish I'd had a tape recorder running!

Sure 'nuff, it took me a solid year to "finish building" that coach. For
example, the engine quit running 7 times during our 200 mile trip home with
it the day we bought it. Things went down hill from there.

But we did wind up enjoying it for 9 years (8 of which we also used the
GMC).

Ken H.

> A bit of a different take on this subject. Between 1998 when we purchased
> our first motor home, a Beaver Patriot, and now, motor homes became longer,
> much heavier and the sides have been penetrated in numerous places for
> slides. None of these bode well for something that lives in an earth quake
> zone!
>
> Construction methods didn’t change much so most are still a floor mounted
> to a chassis, walls fastened to the floor, a roof fastened to the walls
> with a front cap (penetrated for a monster windshield) and rear cap about
> the only anti-rombus agent present.
>
> When we purchased, a big coach was 40 feet, had one slide, weighed between
> 30k and 40k pounds, had no tag axle and offered reasonable net carrying
> capacity. Now a big coach is up to 45 feet long, pushes 50k pounds, has
> tag axles and still may not have much carry capacity at all. Ever more
> batteries to power the electrical loads, and ever bigger engines to carry
> the weight all add up to ever more flex raising havoc with the structure.
>
> No wonder the apparent quality has diminished.
>
> Jerry
> Jerry Work
> Kerby, OR
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
That's a real eye opener, Ken! I think we'll stick with the plan of owning our '75 GMC indefinitely.
--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
 
Ken: an alternate response to his "let's spend $10,000 per coach" mantra should be "Spend $5,000 per coach on employee training" and you won't have the warranty issue!

----- Original Message -----

From: "Ken Henderson"
To: "GMC Mail List"
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2017 3:07:39 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] New RV quality

Re: The quality problems buyers see.

I suspect many manufacturers use the philosophy the founder/president of
Safari (previously a VP of Beaver) presented in response to my, and other
recent buyers', complaints at the owners meeting in 1998, almost verbatim:
"We allocate $10,000 for warranty work on each and every coach we sell.
That's more economical than setting up a dedicated quality control
department...". HONESTLY!!! Can you imagine anyone having the audacity to
admit to a room full of owners that they have that little respect for those
owners and their time? Wish I'd had a tape recorder running!

Sure 'nuff, it took me a solid year to "finish building" that coach. For
example, the engine quit running 7 times during our 200 mile trip home with
it the day we bought it. Things went down hill from there.

But we did wind up enjoying it for 9 years (8 of which we also used the
GMC).

Ken H.

> A bit of a different take on this subject. Between 1998 when we purchased
> our first motor home, a Beaver Patriot, and now, motor homes became longer,
> much heavier and the sides have been penetrated in numerous places for
> slides. None of these bode well for something that lives in an earth quake
> zone!
>
> Construction methods didn’t change much so most are still a floor mounted
> to a chassis, walls fastened to the floor, a roof fastened to the walls
> with a front cap (penetrated for a monster windshield) and rear cap about
> the only anti-rombus agent present.
>
> When we purchased, a big coach was 40 feet, had one slide, weighed between
> 30k and 40k pounds, had no tag axle and offered reasonable net carrying
> capacity. Now a big coach is up to 45 feet long, pushes 50k pounds, has
> tag axles and still may not have much carry capacity at all. Ever more
> batteries to power the electrical loads, and ever bigger engines to carry
> the weight all add up to ever more flex raising havoc with the structure.
>
> No wonder the apparent quality has diminished.
>
> Jerry
> Jerry Work
> Kerby, OR
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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I believe if we were talking about say a new Fortravel or a Newell rather than a Thor or a Winnebago it would be a whole nother ballgame but it would
be a whole lot more money. No matter what the GMC is a lot easier and cheaper to repair ,A 10 year old coach can have more obsolete and hard to find
parts on it then a 40 year old GMC especially if the coach mfg has gone out of business. Diesel motor homes also requir a class B drivers license in
some states as most are over 26,000 lbs and have air brakes. Another plus for the GMC.
--
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
 
The 1999 American Eagle I have has been rock solid "GMC type" reliable.
Turn key, works. Everything else does too. :D lol

> I believe if we were talking about say a new Fortravel or a Newell rather
> than a Thor or a Winnebago it would be a whole nother ballgame but it would
> be a whole lot more money. No matter what the GMC is a lot easier and
> cheaper to repair ,A 10 year old coach can have more obsolete and hard to
> find
> parts on it then a 40 year old GMC especially if the coach mfg has gone
> out of business. Diesel motor homes also requir a class B drivers license in
> some states as most are over 26,000 lbs and have air brakes. Another plus
> for the GMC.
> --
> Roy Keen
> Minden,NV
> 76 X Glenbrook
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
With three different employers, I had to prove that quality does not cost, it pays....
That is the reason I did not stay at the Navistar engine plant. I couldn't stand it or do anything about it.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
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