My "Buzz Box" is buzzing, no power reaching the house battery

[jared1]

The 12 volt converter in my recently acquired 73 Canyon Lands 230 is buzzing away but isn't distributing it power anywhere.

I looked through the fold out wiring schematic that I have and the converter isn't on it.

Should I be looking for a blown fuse or breaker, or something else?

Jared
--
Jared & Tina Lazaron + 7yr old Daughter.

77 Eleganza II "Recherché"
73 Canyon Lands 230 "Elephant"

 

[richshoop]

Check the 12V output at the buzz box. If no power, you probably blew a fuse. Before you tear the buzz box apart, check the house battery with a hydrometer and make sure all cells are full.

>
>
> The 12 volt converter in my recently acquired 73 Canyon Lands 230 is buzzing away but isn't distributing it power anywhere.
>
> I looked through the fold out wiring schematic that I have and the converter isn't on it.
>
> Should I be looking for a blown fuse or breaker, or something else?
>
> Jared
> --
> Jared & Tina Lazaron + 7yr old Daughter.
>
> 77 Eleganza II "Recherché"
> 73 Canyon Lands 230 "Elephant"
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

 

[Matt Colie]

> The 12 volt converter in my recently acquired 73 Canyon Lands 230 is buzzing away but isn't distributing it's power anywhere.
> I looked through the fold out wiring schematic that I have and the converter isn't on it.
> Should I be looking for a blown fuse or breaker, or something else?
> Jared

Jared,

You should have three folded schematics in the manual (Cinnabar reproduction) and that should be on two of them. Both 120V and house 12V. It will
just be a box. I can't be sure as my real books live in the coach and both of my better computers took critical hits recent and I am still working at
damage control. I am even stcuk with a new keyboard.

Really don't bother your self much about that as the Buzz box is both old and dangerous to your house bank. Go find a new Progressive Dynamics or
Iota (those are the two brands that I know are good - there may be others) and get a three stage 40 amp unit to replace that one.

Matt

--
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit

 

[jared1]

I pulled it out and tested it on the bench hooked to a battery..... it's junk. Not putting out a thing. It does hum and get warm though.

Just one more thing in this basket case of a coach. Almost nothing works. Water system is disconnected from the galley faucet, when the water pump is
switched on, water pours out from the passenger rear wheel well.... so something back there is leaking. The furnace has a broken LP feed line, I got
the generator running and it put out power to the air conditioner for about 10 seconds before it stopped putting out power.... not sure what that's
about!! Seemed to run good though. The engine runs great but it tells knock knock jokes.... KNOCK KNOCK.... who's there? ROD!!! It's not hammering,
but it's there. Already sourced a donor crank so I can swap the crank and bearings. Of course the engine has to come out for that though so.......

The air suspension works good and the bags aren't all cracked out or hot dogged, so that's good. The transmission seems to function and shift
normally. I just did the brakes and master cylinder before we started the drive home, so those are done.

I've named this coach the elephant.... And I have to eat it!!! How do you eat and elephant you ask? One bite at a time.

Jared
--
Jared & Tina Lazaron + 7yr old Daughter.

77 Eleganza II "Recherché"
73 Canyon Lands 230 "Elephant"

 

[richard h staples]

As previously suggested, check the output at the converter lead to the fuse panel. You can even disconnect that lead from the panel and coach to test
it, the old buzz box is nearly bullet-proof, and can even survive a dead short. (That's why I still like mine.) However, one failure mode I've
occasionally run across is the capacitors inside the buzz box. They can fail, usually from age, reducing or eliminating output. You'll have to open
up the box (now disconnected from 120VAC!) to check them. If any of them look bulged on the end of the can, replace them. If in doubt, desolder them
from the chassis and test them. (Most newer multimeters have a capacitance scale.) I don't recall the value, but it's usually printed on the
capacitor. Replacements should be avail;able online from Digikey, Mouser, NTE, or any of dozens of electronic supply houses. You can use HIGHER
voltage rated caps, just get the same capacitance as the originals.

BTW, I added a 120V rocker switch to my buzz box while it was open, making it easy to turn it off if not needed, although overcharging and boiling
batteries dry is seldom a problem unless you leave it on for weeks or months at a time. (The manuals say to check battery water every month or so
anyways.)

HTH
Rick Staples
--
Rick Staples, '75 Eleganza, Johnstown, CO

"Advice is a dangerous gift, even from the Wise to the Wise, and all paths may run ill." -Tolkien

 

[richard h staples]

Jared,
Before you pull the "Oh Nan" out, pull the heads and make sure they're not all carboned up. The pistons can hit that buildup (especially under no
load or deceleration) causing a knock. Always check the easy causes first!

Good luck,
Rick Staples
--
Rick Staples, '75 Eleganza, Johnstown, CO

"Advice is a dangerous gift, even from the Wise to the Wise, and all paths may run ill." -Tolkien

 

[jared1]

Not the Onan knocking unfortunately..... :lol:

Jared

--
Jared & Tina Lazaron + 14yr old Daughter.....

77 Eleganza II "Recherché".....

73 Canyon Lands 230 "Elephant"

 

[john r. lebetski]

On the Onan, meter before the AC breaker on top rear. It may have popped or need exercise if you are lucky. Next would be the bridge rectifier to
pull and test. After that it could be worn brushes. If none of the above it could be the field winding has failed. Will need rewind or swap. Not
so good.
On the 455 the Olds heads have a shelf edge. If the rod bearings have too much clearance the piston raps that area and makes a racket. Usually worst
around 1500-2000 then quieter above that. They can run a while that way just can’t say how long.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II

 

[jared1]

> On the Onan, meter before the AC breaker on top rear. It may have popped or need exercise if you are lucky. Next would be the bridge rectifier
> to pull and test. After that it could be worn brushes. If none of the above it could be the field winding has failed. Will need rewind or swap.
> Not so good.
> On the 455 the Olds heads have a shelf edge. If the rod bearings have too much clearance the piston raps that area and makes a racket. Usually
> worst around 1500-2000 then quieter above that. They can run a while that way just can’t say how long.

I will take another look at the Onan. When you say meter.... like a voltage meter? Is there one onboard the generator? It is a 4kw btw.

It was the first time it had been fired up in lord only knows how long. The coach was last registered in 1998. It ran the fan on the air conditioner
and just a few seconds after I switched it to the point where the compressor would kick on, it stopped putting out power. No voltage at the outlets
via my DMM.

Thanks for the clues.... Jared

--
Jared & Tina Lazaron + 14yr old Daughter.....

77 Eleganza II "Recherché".....

73 Canyon Lands 230 "Elephant"

 

[Stu Rasmussen]

That sounds more like a circuit breaker opening up under excessive load
from the air conditioner compressor trying to start up.

JMHO

Stu

> I will take another look at the Onan. When you say meter.... like a
> voltage meter? Is there one onboard the generator? It is a 4kw btw.
>
> It was the first time it had been fired up in lord only knows how
> long. The coach was last registered in 1998. It ran the fan on the air
> conditioner
> and just a few seconds after I switched it to the point where the
> compressor would kick on, it stopped putting out power. No voltage at
> the outlets
> via my DMM.
>
> Thanks for the clues.... Jared

 

[jared1]

> That sounds more like a circuit breaker opening up under excessive load
> from the air conditioner compressor trying to start up.
>
> JMHO
>
> Stu
>
> > I will take another look at the Onan. When you say meter.... like a
> > voltage meter? Is there one onboard the generator? It is a 4kw btw.
> >
> > It was the first time it had been fired up in lord only knows how
> > long. The coach was last registered in 1998. It ran the fan on the air
> > conditioner
> > and just a few seconds after I switched it to the point where the
> > compressor would kick on, it stopped putting out power. No voltage at
> > the outlets
> > via my DMM.
> >
> > Thanks for the clues.... Jared
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

First thing I checked was the breakers. No power to the main gen receptacle. It's in or on the generator itself somewhere.

Jared
--
Jared & Tina Lazaron + 14yr old Daughter.....

77 Eleganza II "Recherché".....

73 Canyon Lands 230 "Elephant"

 

[Ken B]

Check the breaker at the top of the generator. It is before the 4 pin receptacle electrically.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

 

[jared1]

> Check the breaker at the top of the generator. It is before the 4 pin receptacle electrically.

If it's the one I'm thinking of (says OFF - ON ), it's on.

Jared
--
Jared & Tina Lazaron + 14yr old Daughter.....

77 Eleganza II "Recherché".....

73 Canyon Lands 230 "Elephant"

 

[emerystora]

Jared
Turn the breaker off and then on to reset it. Then, with the Onan running, Check the voltage from each side of the breaker to ground. If you have Voltage on only one side then replace the breaker. If you have no voltage then the problem is in the Onan. Probably the bridge rectifier. Fairly easy to replace. We can give you instructions here if you need them.

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick CO

>

>> Check the breaker at the top of the generator. It is before the 4 pin receptacle electrically.
>
> If it's the one I'm thinking of (says OFF - ON ), it's on.
>
> Jared
> --
> Jared & Tina Lazaron + 14yr old Daughter.....
>
> 77 Eleganza II "Recherché".....
>
> 73 Canyon Lands 230 "Elephant"
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

 

[Matt Colie]

> Check the breaker at the top of the generator. It is before the 4 pin receptacle electrically.

lotsofspareparts wrote
> If it's the one I'm thinking of (says OFF - ON ), it's on.
>
> Jared

Jared,

Did you cycle that breaker? They are not always good at indicating the actual situation.

If it was working and quit, check the bridge rectifier in the back. Of course, if it is a 4kW, you have to pull the unit out of the coach to do this
because the slides aren't long enough. DO NOT try to do this the way the manual X7525 says, that does not work for a 4kW(BF) unit.

If you take the bridge out, keep careful track of what leads are where as the new one will have different terminal orientations so the plastic cover
won't fit correctly.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit

 

[jared1]

Yep, checked power at the breaker, 5.9v AC at L1 on the Onan breaker. It's the Onan.

I figured I was going to have to pull this thing.... yuck. Doesn't look difficult, but it's more time to commit and the crappy fall Washington weather
is right on time.

Is the bridge rectifier something that will just go kaput all of a sudden?

Where do you guys recommend I source a replacement (after I test it to prove it's bad).

I Amazon'd a Progressive Dynamics charger/converter to replace the old buzz box.... should be here in a few hours.

Just about ready to pull the sail switch out of the furnace.... voltage dead ends there which explains why the gas solenoid isn't opening. I was able
to couple and reroute the main aluminum feed line into the gas valve. The aluminum tube rotted right at the copper fitting where it connects to the
main LP Line. Soapy water, no leaks, pilot lights up and stays lit. Hopefully I can clean the sail switch with some contact cleaner and cross that
project off the list for now.

Jared
--
Jared & Tina Lazaron + 14yr old Daughter.....

77 Eleganza II "Recherché".....

73 Canyon Lands 230 "Elephant"

 

[Matt Colie]

> Yep, checked power at the breaker, 5.9v AC at L1 on the Onan breaker. It's the Onan.
>
> I figured I was going to have to pull this thing.... yuck. Doesn't look difficult, but it's more time to commit and the crappy fall Washington
> weather is right on time.
>
> Is the bridge rectifier something that will just go kaput all of a sudden?
>
> Where do you guys recommend I source a replacement (after I test it to prove it's bad).
>
> I Amazon'd a Progressive Dynamics charger/converter to replace the old buzz box.... should be here in a few hours.
>
> Just about ready to pull the sail switch out of the furnace.... voltage dead ends there which explains why the gas solenoid isn't opening. I was
> able to couple and reroute the main aluminum feed line into the gas valve. The aluminum tube rotted right at the copper fitting where it connects to
> the main LP Line. Soapy water, no leaks, pilot lights up and stays lit. Hopefully I can clean the sail switch with some contact cleaner and cross
> that project off the list for now.
>
> Jared

Jared,

Yes, the bridge rectifiers usually go out instantly and often for no reason you can pin it on. Turning the A/C off did it to mine or at least that is
the closest event that I could recall. The part that is in there is amazing low rating. It is like 5 Amps and 100 PIV (Peak Inverse Voltage). You
will find that you can buy one that is huugeer for little extra cost. I think mine is like 10A and 600V.

You should not have to disconnect everything. Just borrow and engine hoist and put the screw eye in the top and lift it away enough to change it out.


Matt

--
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit

 

[jared1]

Cool, already have a hoist.

I even have a 2 post lift in the shop, we installed it about 4 months ago. If I had visited a fortune teller and she told me I would have 2 GMC MH's
in the near future.... I would have installed a 12k lift. Certainly would have come in handy when I get ready to pull the engine. I'm considering
rolling the front clip out.

I'll pull out the parts book and see if I can locate the rectifier.

Thanks, Jared
--
Jared & Tina Lazaron + 14yr old Daughter.....

77 Eleganza II "Recherché".....

73 Canyon Lands 230 "Elephant"

 

[Matt Colie]

> Cool, already have a hoist.
>
> I even have a 2 post lift in the shop, we installed it about 4 months ago. If I had visited a fortune teller and she told me I would have 2 GMC
> MH's in the near future.... I would have installed a 12k lift. Certainly would have come in handy when I get ready to pull the engine. I'm
> considering rolling the front clip out.
>
> Jared

Jared,

It is a major PITA to pull the front frame out, but it is well worth the effort. I was advised of this by Dave Lenzi of all people.

Yes, there is a lot to it, but if you pull the front frame out, there is a lot you can do that is just not possible if you go out the top. The bottom
is only slightly better. A big thing is that if your exhaust parts don't unscrew (slim chance there), you now have them out in the open to deal with
that. I also was glad I did because I could not get any of the exhaust to separate so my engine came out with the Y and mufflers. That was nearly a
heart attack when I saw that both mufflers were just short of breaching the top skin.....
With the engine back in the frame, you can test run it to set the timing and break in the cam. You have to put a short hose on the cooling loop but
there is little else that needs to be done.

Things that are a pain:
Undo the brake lines at the master and carefully bend them clear and the single rear line at the combination valve.
The A/C system will have to be openned at the evaporator.
The steering box will have to be dropped and the hoses for the wiper motor disconnected.
The battery tray unbolts with the air tank below it.
As it is a '73 and a Powerlevel, just get 5 (or maybe 6) couplings and cut the air lines going aft. I didn't the first time, it was a major pain
getting them out and back in to where they needed to go. I was smarter the second time.
I didn't mention that I did this twice in less than a year because after the engine rebuild, we had this issue on I-95 in SC and that bent the front
frame. I had to change it out.

If you are going to do this, ask me about the "gun sight" timing marks. I haven't had time to write this one up yet.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit

 

[jared1]

> > Cool, already have a hoist.
> >
> > I even have a 2 post lift in the shop, we installed it about 4 months ago. If I had visited a fortune teller and she told me I would have 2
> > GMC MH's in the near future.... I would have installed a 12k lift. Certainly would have come in handy when I get ready to pull the engine. I'm
> > considering rolling the front clip out.
> >
> > Jared
>
> Jared,
>
> It is a major PITA to pull the front frame out, but it is well worth the effort. I was advised of this by Dave Lenzi of all people.
>
> Yes, there is a lot to it, but if you pull the front frame out, there is a lot you can do that is just not possible if you go out the top. The
> bottom is only slightly better. A big thing is that if your exhaust parts don't unscrew (slim chance there), you now have them out in the open to
> deal with that. I also was glad I did because I could not get any of the exhaust to separate so my engine came out with the Y and mufflers. That
> was nearly a heart attack when I saw that both mufflers were just short of breaching the top skin.....
> With the engine back in the frame, you can test run it to set the timing and break in the cam. You have to put a short hose on the cooling loop
> but there is little else that needs to be done.
>
> Things that are a pain:
> Undo the brake lines at the master and carefully bend them clear and the single rear line at the combination valve.
> The A/C system will have to be openned at the evaporator.
> The steering box will have to be dropped and the hoses for the wiper motor disconnected.
> The battery tray unbolts with the air tank below it.
> As it is a '73 and a Powerlevel, just get 5 (or maybe 6) couplings and cut the air lines going aft. I didn't the first time, it was a major pain
> getting them out and back in to where they needed to go. I was smarter the second time.
> I didn't mention that I did this twice in less than a year because after the engine rebuild, we had this issue on I-95 in SC and that bent the
> front frame. I had to change it out.
>
> If you are going to do this, ask me about the "gun sight" timing marks. I haven't had time to write this one up yet.
>
> Matt

All great info, I will take it to heart when I start the process. Probably won't be till spring though.

Got the Converter/Charger installed.... weird, the original converter is the size of a marine battery and weighs just about as much, the Intelli-Power
9245 I just installed is the size of a tissue box and weighs just about as much. Technology I guess. Came with a little manual control remote too.

Got the furnace running on high with a new Kidde digital CO monitor in the coach. I'll check it here in a while but I think the furnace is copacetic.

Bringing home my 77 Eleganza II tomorrow. It's the coach Todd Sullivan bought from me, and I am buying it back from the couple he sold it to.
Certainly more to follow on that.

Jared

--
Jared & Tina Lazaron + 14yr old Daughter.....

77 Eleganza II "Recherché".....

73 Canyon Lands 230 "Elephant"