My 1976 Palm Beach Project

J

justin brady1

New member
May 4, 2015
727
1
0
Once again it's been a while since my last update, but things have been moving steadily!
She went up to Illinois for paint and came hope looking B-E-A-utiful!

The plan was to scuff the original paint and go from there, which failed miserably. The original paint was in such bad shape the shop manager and I
made the call to go full bore and remove every speck of original paint and start from scratch.

http://www.thegmcrv.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/13712.jpeg
http://www.thegmcrv.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/13714.jpeg

We had a LOT of hail damage on the roof. Looks like she sat through one hell of a storm.
I opted to repair the parts visible from the ground and not worry about the top, the only person ever to see it is me.
http://www.thegmcrv.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/14029.jpeg
http://www.thegmcrv.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/14030.jpeg

During reassembly:

http://www.thegmcrv.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/14669.jpeg
http://www.thegmcrv.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/14671.jpeg

A reminder of the before shape:
http://www.thegmcrv.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/IMG_20170617_220644.jpg

And the after:

http://www.thegmcrv.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/14862.jpeg


--
Justin Brady
http://www.thegmcrv.com/
1976 Palm Beach 455
 
As you can see in the photos I added the Bounds slider windows to the front. They are pretty nice. I absolutely HATE where they put the handle and
clip, completely ridiculous IMHO. The handle to slide it open and closed is about 2/3 of the way down the window, so when you try to slide it open or
closed it pivots in the frame and is a total bitch to open or close. Had they put the handle in the center this would not have been an issue.
Overall they are an improvement over the old style. Even if they do require fiddling and usually 2 hands to operate.

Another interesting point, due to the aerodynamics of the coach the open window does the opposite of what you'd expect, it pulls air OUT instead of
letting air IN. When driving with all the other windows closed this results in it pulling air through every nook and cranny including through small
gaps in the engine hatch and floor, so the net result is the cab gets HOTTER and not cooler.

At least they look great.

--
Justin Brady
http://www.thegmcrv.com/
1976 Palm Beach 455
 
Next issue is that on the 5hr drive there and back I experienced vapor lock. With the Fitech Fuel command center and all.
The FCC is mounted beside the radiator in full air flow visible from the front of the grill.
Outside temp was ~95 on fresh new hot blacktop. Slowed me to 35 on the interstate with the sputtering and surging. Electric backup pump worked for a
while then even that wouldn't work.

I am convinced that the vapor lock was happening IN the FCC and not in the lines. The fuel pump in there was overheating the fuel and causing it to
boil.
To remedy this when I got home I gutted the FCC. By that I mean I removed the float valve and gutted the check overflow valve. I then routed a fuel
line from the overflow back to the fuel filler.
The way it's setup now the FCC acts as a sump or surge tank instead of a heat reservoir. The fuel pumps in from the mechanical pump and then the
overflow goes back into the tank. This constant re-circulation should keep the fuel in the sump nice and cool (we hope!)

I have not driven it far enough to fully test, but a 30 minute idle saw a significant decrease in temperature of the FCC before and after. Before I
couldn't hold my hand on the FCC after 30 minutes Idling. After it's still warm but no issue to hold my hand on it indefinitely.
--
Justin Brady
http://www.thegmcrv.com/
1976 Palm Beach 455
 
Read here for fresh air solution
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/auxilary-fresh-air-vents/p4069.html

> As you can see in the photos I added the Bounds slider windows to the
> front. They are pretty nice. I absolutely HATE where they put the handle and
> clip, completely ridiculous IMHO. The handle to slide it open and closed
> is about 2/3 of the way down the window, so when you try to slide it open or
> closed it pivots in the frame and is a total bitch to open or close. Had
> they put the handle in the center this would not have been an issue.
> Overall they are an improvement over the old style. Even if they do
> require fiddling and usually 2 hands to operate.
>
> Another interesting point, due to the aerodynamics of the coach the open
> window does the opposite of what you'd expect, it pulls air OUT instead of
> letting air IN. When driving with all the other windows closed this
> results in it pulling air through every nook and cranny including through
> small
> gaps in the engine hatch and floor, so the net result is the cab gets
> HOTTER and not cooler.
>
> At least they look great.
>
>
> --
> Justin Brady
> http://www.thegmcrv.com/
> 1976 Palm Beach 455
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://bdub.net/gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://bdub.net/gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
 
Justin,

Very nice!

Ken H.

> Once again it's been a while since my last update, but things have been
> moving steadily!
> She went up to Illinois for paint and came hope looking B-E-A-utiful!
>
 
Enjoying your posts outlining the restoration of your coach... It is really turning out great!

As for the open window creating a vacuum, the Ragusa air deflector "Wind Wings" seem to make large difference on the small windows on my coach...

http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/1808

Maybe scale them up for the large Bounds windows?
--
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
 
A look at the shape of the windshield and the toll window location leads me to think the air spilling off the windshield creates a venturi right where
the window opening is. The wind wings turn the spilled air inward making higher pressure at the opening rather than lower. I just open the windows
in the back and let the airflow go back to front. Works fine.
I've seen maybe three toll booths in my GMC career, so the windows are a non-issue. If I lived or traveled regularly in the Northeast they'd be next
on the upgrade list.

--johnny
--
76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
 
Nice Justin,

You are making great progress!!
Again, thanks for sharing your tranformation of the GMC.

Daniel
--
Daniel Jacobs, No GMC, but an admirer of them .... We'll see what the future brings ....

Always remember, the world is full of nice people!
So, if you can't find one, be one!
 
Quick update.
Were 95% finished and driving it to Wyoming to get married.
The first day was awful, mostly due to vapor lock (that my previous fix only helped postpone didn't fix) after a lot of head scratching and cursing I
finally said screw it and ran new fuel line from the selector switch to an electric fuel pump and then straight to the command center. Never goes into
the engine compartment and never goes through the mechanical pump.
This 100% solved the problem.
So the problem all along was the fuel line running in the engine compartment and through the mechanical pump. It's just too damn hot in there for fuel
to sit in a hose for very long.
Fuel was boiling between the mechanical pump and the command center.
Once that was fixed we were rolling.

Now I've got an oil leak somewhere. Looks like the mechanical pump gasket from what I can tell. (mechanical pumps are the devil in my eyes now).

Otherwise she's running great and were in Nebraska somewhere enjoying it.
--
Justin Brady
http://www.thegmcrv.com/
1976 Palm Beach 455
 
Hi Justin, Congrats on your marriage! Glad you ditched the mecha=
nical pump and engine compartment fuel lines. Watch out for the fuel selec=
tor valve as it is another known failure point. Better in my mind to draw =
directly from one of the tanks (I like the rear/main) with the electric pum=
p to push fuel to the Fuel Command Center. That will provide access to aro=
und 42 gallons, way more driving than I ever do in one stretch. My process=
is to fill the tanks, drive for 200-250 miles and stop to refill and walk =
around a bit. No matter how much steady up hill driving you do there still=
will be adequate fuel from one tank to do 250 to 300 miles. Steady down h=
ill driving will take care of itself. If you really want access to all 50 =
gallons and/or reduncancy, put on two electric fuel pumps with check valves=
and merge the lines forward of the pumps. Use the tank selector switch to=
power a normally on relay with the normally on line going to the pump on t=
he rear/main tank and the normally off line going to the pump on the forwar=
d/reserve tank. Mount both pumps and the relay outside the frame rails whe=
re it is cooler and easy to access. Jerry Jerry Work The Dovetail =
Joint Fine furniture designed and hand crafted in the 1907 former Masonic=
Temple building in historic Kerby, OR glwork http://jerryw=
ork.com Message: 12 Date: Tue=
, 11 Jul 2017 19:36:15 -0600 From: Justin Brady To:=
gmclist Subject: Re: [GMCnet] My 1976 Palm Beach Project=
Message-ID: Content-Type: text/p=
lain; charset "utf-8" Quick update. Were 95% finished and drivin=
g it to Wyoming to get married. The first day was awful, mostly due to v=
apor lock (that my previous fix only helped postpone didn't fix) after a lo=
t of head scratching and cursing I finally said screw it and ran new fuel=
line from the selector switch to an electric fuel pump and then straight t=
o the command center. Never goes into the engine compartment and never go=
es through the mechanical pump. This 100% solved the problem. So the =
problem all along was the fuel line running in the engine compartment and t=
hrough the mechanical pump. It's just too damn hot in there for fuel to s=
it in a hose for very long. Fuel was boiling between the mechanical pump=
and the command center. Once that was fixed we were rolling. Now =
I've got an oil leak somewhere. Looks like the mechanical pump gasket from =
what I can tell. (mechanical pumps are the devil in my eyes now). Othe=
rwise she's running great and were in Nebraska somewhere enjoying it. --=
Justin Brady http://www.thegmcrv.com/ 1976 Palm Beach 455 =
 
The other way is two electric pumps with check valves and the outputs tee'd together. The Fuel Pump Follies pictures show how:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6198-cane-9-creek-rv-park-heflin-2c-al.html
Don't use the supplied filters with the Mr. Gasket pumps, they fail at the seam. Wix has an exact replacement, use it. This method gives redundancy
in the pumps - which I suspect come from China, and has the feed to the carb or in your case the fuel command center. Blank flange the
mechanical pump opening and go on your way.

--johnny
--
76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I know that there is a significant pressure drop when you pull fuel through
a Carter 4070 electric fuel pump. For that reason, when I install one, I
plumb a bypass with a check valve in it around the pump. No drop in
pressure with that setup. I have always toyed with the idea of making a
metal lined bypass setup for sale. Any interest out there? With all the
hose nipples, tees, short hoses, clamps, barbs, etc. It is an ugly beast,
but it works. I'm thinking a manifold kinda like the Quadra bag airline
setup. Slick, compact, fewer short hoses and clamps.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403

On Jul 12, 2017 8:43 AM, "Johnny Bridges via Gmclist" <

> The other way is two electric pumps with check valves and the outputs
> tee'd together. The Fuel Pump Follies pictures show how:
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6198-cane-9-creek-rv-
> park-heflin-2c-al.html
> Don't use the supplied filters with the Mr. Gasket pumps, they fail at the
> seam. Wix has an exact replacement, use it. This method gives redundancy
> in the pumps - which I suspect come from China, and has the
> feed to the carb or in your case the fuel command center. Blank flange the
> mechanical pump opening and go on your way.
>
> --johnny
> --
> 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> Braselton, Ga.
> "I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me
> in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Pix ?

> I know that there is a significant pressure drop when you pull fuel through
> a Carter 4070 electric fuel pump. For that reason, when I install one, I
> plumb a bypass with a check valve in it around the pump. No drop in
> pressure with that setup. I have always toyed with the idea of making a
> metal lined bypass setup for sale. Any interest out there? With all the
> hose nipples, tees, short hoses, clamps, barbs, etc. It is an ugly beast,
> but it works. I'm thinking a manifold kinda like the Quadra bag airline
> setup. Slick, compact, fewer short hoses and clamps.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Or
> 78 GMC ROYALE 403
>
> On Jul 12, 2017 8:43 AM, "Johnny Bridges via Gmclist" <

>
> > The other way is two electric pumps with check valves and the outputs
> > tee'd together. The Fuel Pump Follies pictures show how:
> > http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6198-cane-9-creek-rv-
> > park-heflin-2c-al.html
> > Don't use the supplied filters with the Mr. Gasket pumps, they fail at
> the
> > seam. Wix has an exact replacement, use it. This method gives
> redundancy
> > in the pumps - which I suspect come from China, and has the
> > feed to the carb or in your case the fuel command center. Blank flange
> the
> > mechanical pump opening and go on your way.
> >
> > --johnny
> > --
> > 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> > Braselton, Ga.
> > "I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to
> me
> > in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://bdub.net/gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://bdub.net/gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Gene, inside my head, plenty o' pix. I will see what I come up with.
Jim Hupy

Pix ?

> I know that there is a significant pressure drop when you pull fuel
through
> a Carter 4070 electric fuel pump. For that reason, when I install one, I
> plumb a bypass with a check valve in it around the pump. No drop in
> pressure with that setup. I have always toyed with the idea of making a
> metal lined bypass setup for sale. Any interest out there? With all the
> hose nipples, tees, short hoses, clamps, barbs, etc. It is an ugly beast,
> but it works. I'm thinking a manifold kinda like the Quadra bag airline
> setup. Slick, compact, fewer short hoses and clamps.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Or
> 78 GMC ROYALE 403
>
> On Jul 12, 2017 8:43 AM, "Johnny Bridges via Gmclist" <

>
> > The other way is two electric pumps with check valves and the outputs
> > tee'd together. The Fuel Pump Follies pictures show how:
> > http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6198-cane-9-creek-rv-
> > park-heflin-2c-al.html
> > Don't use the supplied filters with the Mr. Gasket pumps, they fail at
> the
> > seam. Wix has an exact replacement, use it. This method gives
> redundancy
> > in the pumps - which I suspect come from China, and has the
> > feed to the carb or in your case the fuel command center. Blank flange
> the
> > mechanical pump opening and go on your way.
> >
> > --johnny
> > --
> > 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> > Braselton, Ga.
> > "I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to
> me
> > in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://bdub.net/gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://bdub.net/gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sam as this but with steel lines?
http://appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/1790

bdub

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist On Behalf Of James Hupy
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 10:55 AM

I know that there is a significant pressure drop when you pull fuel through a
Carter 4070 electric fuel pump. For that reason, when I install one, I plumb a
bypass with a check valve in it around the pump. No drop in pressure with that
setup. I have always toyed with the idea of making a metal lined bypass setup
for sale. Any interest out there? With all the hose nipples, tees, short hoses,
clamps, barbs, etc. It is an ugly beast, but it works. I'm thinking a manifold
kinda like the Quadra bag airline setup. Slick, compact, fewer short hoses and
clamps.
 
Yeah, kinda, but eliminate a whole bunch of hoses and clamps.
Jim Hupy

> Sam as this but with steel lines?
> http://appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/1790
>
> bdub
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gmclist On Behalf Of James Hupy
> Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 10:55 AM
>
> I know that there is a significant pressure drop when you pull fuel
> through a
> Carter 4070 electric fuel pump. For that reason, when I install one, I
> plumb a
> bypass with a check valve in it around the pump. No drop in pressure with
> that
> setup. I have always toyed with the idea of making a metal lined bypass
> setup
> for sale. Any interest out there? With all the hose nipples, tees, short
> hoses,
> clamps, barbs, etc. It is an ugly beast, but it works. I'm thinking a
> manifold
> kinda like the Quadra bag airline setup. Slick, compact, fewer short hoses
> and
> clamps.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
How does the fuel selector valve cause a problem, Jerry?

ronc

Watch out for the fuel selector valve as it is another known
> failure point. Better in my mind to draw directly from one of the
> tanks (I like the rear/main) with the electric pump to push fuel to
> the Fuel Command Center.
 
Congratulations, Justin and to your "new" wife !
Wishing you many good times and happiness together.

Daniel
--
Daniel Jacobs, No GMC, but an admirer of them .... We'll see what the future brings ....

Always remember, the world is full of nice people!
So, if you can't find one, be one!
 
Well we made it!
5000+ Miles in the last 2 weeks and we're home safe and sound.

Diverting the fuel lines around the engine compartment 100% cured the vapor lock. Not so much as a stutter after that. Anyone with vapor lock issues,
fitech or not, should consider routing the fuel lines OUT of the engine compartment and using an electric pump instead of the mechanical. I'm
convinced that carburetor or FI this is the real culprit.

For the motorcycle that we all had concerns about. It rode on the carrier all 5000 miles, up every mountain and into every campsite. Not a single
shred of an issue.
There's a few reasons for that. This is just my opinions and your mileage may vary:
We rebuilt the whole interior, we did this with light weight materials instead of the heavy ass particle board that we pulled out. On the way westward
I stopped at a certified CAT scale and weighed. Total weight, with both of us up front, fuel full, water full, and packed for 2 weeks out west our
weight was 11,200 lbs. That includes the motorcycle at 590lbs and the carrier at 150lbs. So weight without the bike is a piddly 10,460 lbs FULLY
LOADED.
That includes walnut countertops and trim and a full tile bathroom.
Point is, I think the reason we do so well with the bike is the fact that we're ~1500lbs lighter than stock.
http://www.thegmcrv.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/IMG_20170712_195148-EFFECTS.jpg

http://www.thegmcrv.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/IMG_20170712_200017.jpg

The only other major issue we had was an oil leak at the fuel pump (Gasket replacement helped but didn't fix it)and a BUNCH of broken belts. We broke
3 AC belts and 3 Alternator belts. What a PITA.
My view on this is two fold, we were driving too much (12hr days) to stop and retension them after a few miles (/ i was lazy) and 2nd, the quality of
belts is all over the board depending on the source. I finally ended up with Napa Premium belts at $30/piece and those seem to be holding with no
squeals so far after about 1000 miles.

We didn't quite get finished before we left, a few little things left to do but here's the "finished" product.

http://www.thegmcrv.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/IMG_20170713_081802.jpg

http://www.thegmcrv.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/IMG_20170713_081659.jpg

http://www.thegmcrv.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/IMG_20170713_082034.jpg

http://www.thegmcrv.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/IMG_20170713_074636.jpg

http://www.thegmcrv.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/PANO_20170713_074333.jpg

http://www.thegmcrv.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/IMG_20170711_072321.jpg

And all this work turned out to be worth it! Here's the end result:
http://www.thegmcrv.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/IMG_20170718_133353_346.jpg

--
Justin Brady
http://www.thegmcrv.com/
1976 Palm Beach 455
 
Well I added this to the wrong thread earlier, so here it is to keep this one up to date:

Well we made it!
5000+ Miles in the last 2 weeks and we're home safe and sound.

Diverting the fuel lines around the engine compartment 100% cured the vapor lock. Not so much as a stutter after that. Anyone with vapor lock issues,
fitech or not, should consider routing the fuel lines OUT of the engine compartment and using an electric pump instead of the mechanical. I'm
convinced that carburetor or FI this is the real culprit.

For the motorcycle that we all had concerns about. It rode on the carrier all 5000 miles, up every mountain and into every campsite. Not a single
shred of an issue.
There's a few reasons for that. This is just my opinions and your mileage may vary:
We rebuilt the whole interior, we did this with light weight materials instead of the heavy ass particle board that we pulled out. On the way westward
I stopped at a certified CAT scale and weighed. Total weight, with both of us up front, fuel full, water full, and packed for 2 weeks out west our
weight was 11,200 lbs. That includes the motorcycle at 590lbs and the carrier at 150lbs. So weight without the bike is a piddly 10,460 lbs FULLY
LOADED.
That includes walnut countertops and trim and a full tile bathroom.
Point is, I think the reason we do so well with the bike is the fact that we're ~1500lbs lighter than stock.
http://www.thegmcrv.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/IMG_20170712_195148-EFFECTS.jpg

http://www.thegmcrv.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/IMG_20170712_200017.jpg

The only other major issue we had was an oil leak at the fuel pump (Gasket replacement helped but didn't fix it)and a BUNCH of broken belts. We broke
3 AC belts and 3 Alternator belts. What a PITA.
My view on this is two fold, we were driving too much (12hr days) to stop and retension them after a few miles (/ i was lazy) and 2nd, the quality of
belts is all over the board depending on the source. I finally ended up with Napa Premium belts at $30/piece and those seem to be holding with no
squeals so far after about 1000 miles.

We didn't quite get finished before we left, a few little things left to do but here's the "finished" product.

http://www.thegmcrv.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/IMG_20170713_081802.jpg

http://www.thegmcrv.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/IMG_20170713_081659.jpg

http://www.thegmcrv.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/IMG_20170713_082034.jpg

http://www.thegmcrv.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/IMG_20170713_074636.jpg

http://www.thegmcrv.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/PANO_20170713_074333.jpg

http://www.thegmcrv.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/IMG_20170711_072321.jpg

And all this work turned out to be worth it! Here's the end result:
http://www.thegmcrv.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/IMG_20170718_133353_346.jpg

--
Justin Brady
http://www.thegmcrv.com/
1976 Palm Beach 455
 
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