More new engine follies

Mike I’m sure Matt C Can address that.
I was at a Convention when he did a in depth presentation on application of
fastners.

On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 6:26 AM Mike Hamm via Gmclist <

> All all costs don't use split lock washers.
> Under high load they tent to open up.
> --
> 1977 Kingsley 455 as stock as it gets except lots of Ragusa parts
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
 
The intended high-collar lock washers are designed for these loads and I’ve
never seen them open up.

Also, they provide just a bit more bolt between the head and the threads.
This is where the bolt stretches elastically under tensioning, and it’s
that elastic strain that keeps them from ever losing tension under load.
Loss of tension is what allows them to back out and get loose, just as with
spokes on a bicycle wheel.

I believe the high tensioning torque is there to cause any internal
stresses to yield and these be relieved. These can be microscopic but can
contribute to fatigue failures. Tensioning close to proof load actually
prevents fatigue in bolts not loaded in tension (except from tightening),
which these are not. The tightest these bolts ever are is just sitting
there after torquing them down. They are loaded in pure shear, but it’s the
clamping friction that carries the load.

So, the lock washer doesn’t work by biting into the bolt, it works by
preventing any loss of tension in use, which keeps the bolts from backing
out.

Rick “all structures are elastic” Denney

On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 9:26 AM Mike Hamm via Gmclist <

> All all costs don't use split lock washers.
> Under high load they tent to open up.
> --
> 1977 Kingsley 455 as stock as it gets except lots of Ragusa parts
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
 
If the clamping tightness is such that the plate doesn't move relative to the CV plate, the bolts are in tension. Should the two plates move, then
the bolts are in shear. I used blue LocTite on mine at 60 ft-lbs and they haven't moved since I got the coach. I figured the thick locks were
there for a reason, and the Fastener Room at Coker's had a boxful so I used them.
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
 
Johnny, I should have said the structure is loaded in shear, not tension.
Therefore, there is no structural tension load on the bolts, in addition to
their tightening tension. That’s why they can be tightened to near proof
load.

Engineers often state that bolts are loaded in shear when they mean that
structures are loaded in shear. Any bolted connection that uses holes large
enough not to be an interference fit carry their loads by clamping
friction.

I’m not opposed to Loctite by any means, though I do wonder how that
changes the torque requirements. I am opposed to using Loctite as an excuse
to avoid tightening them to spec, in the false notion that the bolts can’t
take it. I’ve heard of many loosened drive axles, but I’ve never heard of
broken bolts during or after torquing, if they were the proper
high-strength bolts.

Rick “the factory didn’t use Loctite” Denney

On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 10:53 AM Johnny Bridges via Gmclist <

> If the clamping tightness is such that the plate doesn't move relative to
> the CV plate, the bolts are in tension. Should the two plates move, then
> the bolts are in shear. I used blue LocTite on mine at 60 ft-lbs and
> they haven't moved since I got the coach. I figured the thick locks were
> there for a reason, and the Fastener Room at Coker's had a boxful so I
> used them.
> --
> Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> Braselton, Ga.
> I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me
> in hell
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
 
Never seen ANY broken CV joint bolts, but I have seen a whole bunch of them
come loose and fall out on the road, PARTICULARLY on the drivers side of
the coach.
If I encounter a really "grungy" coach, I liberally clean that area
with Brake Kleen and chase the threads with a thread chaser tap. Then a
follow up spray with carb cleaner, followed by compressed air. Then, new
bolts and the special lock washers, with blue loctite. Torque to spec. (65
- 70) foot pounds. Makes me cringe to put that much torque on that little
bolt, but, they are supposed to be a one time use deal.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or

On Wed, Aug 14, 2019, 8:06 AM Richard Denney via Gmclist <

> Johnny, I should have said the structure is loaded in shear, not tension.
> Therefore, there is no structural tension load on the bolts, in addition to
> their tightening tension. That’s why they can be tightened to near proof
> load.
>
> Engineers often state that bolts are loaded in shear when they mean that
> structures are loaded in shear. Any bolted connection that uses holes large
> enough not to be an interference fit carry their loads by clamping
> friction.
>
> I’m not opposed to Loctite by any means, though I do wonder how that
> changes the torque requirements. I am opposed to using Loctite as an excuse
> to avoid tightening them to spec, in the false notion that the bolts can’t
> take it. I’ve heard of many loosened drive axles, but I’ve never heard of
> broken bolts during or after torquing, if they were the proper
> high-strength bolts.
>
> Rick “the factory didn’t use Loctite” Denney
>
> On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 10:53 AM Johnny Bridges via Gmclist <

>
> > If the clamping tightness is such that the plate doesn't move relative to
> > the CV plate, the bolts are in tension. Should the two plates move, then
> > the bolts are in shear. I used blue LocTite on mine at 60 ft-lbs
> and
> > they haven't moved since I got the coach. I figured the thick locks were
> > there for a reason, and the Fastener Room at Coker's had a boxful so I
> > used them.
> > --
> > Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> > Braselton, Ga.
> > I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me
> > in hell
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> --
> '73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
> Northern Virginia
> Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
I hied myself to Advance and borrowed their pressure test kit. Surprise, surprise, won't fit a GMC. The direct cap adapter is too small in diameter
- I suspect it's to be used on newer cars with metric small caps..... the ears are a quarter of an inch too close together. The adapter which plugs
into the cap hole and expands is too tall to fit. I am of the opinion that the radiator is going to have to come out, and if I can drop it enough
without disconnecting the hoses, I can test ther system tomorrow as it comes out. Failing that it will be necessary to plug the upper hose and adapt
the tester into the radiator opening with the cap in place. It's too dam' hot out to mess further with it right now, heat index is an even 100.

Getting the radiator full is going to be a problem.

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
 
Chuck,
The Flow Kooler is now the Robert Shaw and they do work better than the
other brands.
We sell and stock many of them, 180/195.

On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 1:54 PM Johnny Bridges via Gmclist <

> I hied myself to Advance and borrowed their pressure test kit. Surprise,
> surprise, won't fit a GMC. The direct cap adapter is too small in diameter
> - I suspect it's to be used on newer cars with metric small caps..... the
> ears are a quarter of an inch too close together. The adapter which plugs
> into the cap hole and expands is too tall to fit. I am of the opinion
> that the radiator is going to have to come out, and if I can drop it enough
> without disconnecting the hoses, I can test ther system tomorrow as it
> comes out. Failing that it will be necessary to plug the upper hose and
> adapt
> the tester into the radiator opening with the cap in place. It's too dam'
> hot out to mess further with it right now, heat index is an even 100.
>
> Getting the radiator full is going to be a problem.
>
> --johnny
> --
> Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> Braselton, Ga.
> I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me
> in hell
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
 
https://www.gmcrvparts.com/product-p/gm8-006-14-180.htm

> Chuck,
> The Flow Kooler is now the Robert Shaw and they do work better than the
> other brands.
> We sell and stock many of them, 180/195.
>
> On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 1:54 PM Johnny Bridges via Gmclist <

>
>> I hied myself to Advance and borrowed their pressure test kit. Surprise,
>> surprise, won't fit a GMC. The direct cap adapter is too small in diameter
>> - I suspect it's to be used on newer cars with metric small caps..... the
>> ears are a quarter of an inch too close together. The adapter which plugs
>> into the cap hole and expands is too tall to fit. I am of the opinion
>> that the radiator is going to have to come out, and if I can drop it enough
>> without disconnecting the hoses, I can test ther system tomorrow as it
>> comes out. Failing that it will be necessary to plug the upper hose and
>> adapt
>> the tester into the radiator opening with the cap in place. It's too
>> dam' hot out to mess further with it right now, heat index is an even 100.
>>
>> Getting the radiator full is going to be a problem.
>>
>> --johnny
>> --
>> Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
>> Braselton, Ga.
>> I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me
>> in hell
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
> jimk
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
>

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
 
I have same problem with the Harbor Freight one. Here is what you can do. I will cost you a radiator cap. Take a cap and cut a slit on the bottom
round rubber gasket so it can leak.

Install the modified cap. Then fashion an adapter from your pressure tester to the hose size of the over flow port on the filler. On the aluminum
radiator the port screws screws in. Probably 1/4 pipe thread. I do not remember. On an OEM radiator you will have to remove the over flow hose and
install your adapter hose with a small radiator clamp. Now pump it up through the over flow port and watch the pressure.

One time I had some kitchen matches around so I cut them to fit cross wise on top of the lip on the inside of the filler where the cap goes. That was
enough to cause the desired leak so we did not have to cut the lower rubber gasket in the cap.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
Being it's Advance's tester not mine, I can't do anything which will change the tester components.
I'm waiting for some Applied parts anyhow, I'll hang till they get here. I'm in Dog Show Busy Season, so nothing is gonna happen very fast.

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
 
Also the new bolts from McMaster have the usual shipping oil on them which should probably have a blast of carb/brake solvent before the thread
locking chemical application. Not sure on JimKs correct shouldered bolts but observed on the McMaster.
(Notice how I got through all that without using any ™️ names?)
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
 
when i replaced my cv boots i couldnt get the bolts and washers as i am in australia . my local bolt guy supplied me with 6 point allen head set
screws and nord lock washers so far done 3000 miles .
any one else had experience thith the nord lock washers https://www.nord-lock.com/nord-lock/products/washers/
--
Trevor
Brisbane Australia
Siesta Koala 76 Edgemont (old Bobby Moores)
71 Cadillac Eldo Convert
58 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham Project
 
I’ve used the nord-lock washers on high HP VWs on the inner cvj flange. They work well. I got the idea from some Porsche guys who have used them for years to keep the CVJ bolts from coming loose.

www.nord-lock.com

Les Burt
Montreal
'75 Eleganza 26'

>
> when i replaced my cv boots i couldnt get the bolts and washers as i am in australia . my local bolt guy supplied me with 6 point allen head set
> screws and nord lock washers so far done 3000 miles .
> any one else had experience thith the nord lock washers https://www.nord-lock.com/nord-lock/products/washers/
> --
> Trevor
> Brisbane Australia
> Siesta Koala 76 Edgemont (old Bobby Moores)
> 71 Cadillac Eldo Convert
> 58 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham Project
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
GMCMI Spring 2026 Rally
Get your shine on at www.cruzingear.co

Share this page

Share this page
Top Bottom
Back