Microlevel for the EL11 systems (1978)

S

scott nutter1

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Jan 5, 2015
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Wanted to start a separate thread for the EL11 people thinking of going with the microlevel controller.
I happen to think it's a great system(for whatever that's worth), and am planning to get one.

But with my EL11 system with 2 separate air compressors and no air storage tank, that a upgrade on the pumps would make sense. After all they are 40
years old, and the solenoids leak. And I don't want to spend the money to rebuild them. I have been trying to figure out the best air source for the
Microlevel and only 2 come to mind.

The 1st, and possibly the easiest, would to get a single Viair 150 psi pump with a stainless air storage tank. Tried and true.......
The second option would be to get 2 Viair 150 psi pumps without using a storage tank. Sorta like the EL11 system but newer and no solenoids.
I happen to like the 150psi pumps because if they decide to go nuclear on their own the bags should handle it.

Any additions, suggestions, opinions?

Scott.
--
Scott Nutter
1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi.
Houston, Texas
 
tough question and I think you will get a lot of answers.
2 pumps, cost more, but have redundancy, sort of.

A tank is not needed, not even sure if it's helps at all.

If I had my choice it would be 1 pump, 4 valves. It's simple and proven and MicroLevels supported design. It's what every lowrider out there does.
it would also be simple to hot wire if you did loose your MicroLevel, all you need to do is ground the solenoid wire for what you want to do, up/down, left, right.

Using the EL I/II should be doable with 2 relays and diodes though
________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of Scott Nutter
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 12:42 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: [GMCnet] Microlevel for the EL11 systems (1978)

Wanted to start a separate thread for the EL11 people thinking of going with the microlevel controller.
I happen to think it's a great system(for whatever that's worth), and am planning to get one.

But with my EL11 system with 2 separate air compressors and no air storage tank, that a upgrade on the pumps would make sense. After all they are 40
years old, and the solenoids leak. And I don't want to spend the money to rebuild them. I have been trying to figure out the best air source for the
Microlevel and only 2 come to mind.

The 1st, and possibly the easiest, would to get a single Viair 150 psi pump with a stainless air storage tank. Tried and true.......
The second option would be to get 2 Viair 150 psi pumps without using a storage tank. Sorta like the EL11 system but newer and no solenoids.
I happen to like the 150psi pumps because if they decide to go nuclear on their own the bags should handle it.

Any additions, suggestions, opinions?

Scott.
--
Scott Nutter
1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi.
Houston, Texas

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Keith,
What cfm and psi rated compressors do the low rider crowd use? For a single pump operation.
--
Scott Nutter
1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi.
Houston, Texas
 
So I can help a bit on this with the outside air ride knowledge with the modern stuff. I’ve built a few frame up trucks with full air ride suspension.
Scott as far as the 2 pumps go. Yes it will work and that’s how the original setup runs. I would run a tank. Like you said if the pumps go nuclear and no longer work a tank that’s rated at 200psi will get you far and if you add a schrader valve you can add air from anywhere. Most compressors for low riders(unless you’re thinking about hydraulics)are 150psi unless you go the engine driven route(York210) which will get you 180psi. If you run check valves in the right places the tank and the pumps will never let you down.

Sent from my iPhone

>
> Keith,
> What cfm and psi rated compressors do the low rider crowd use? For a single pump operation.
> --
> Scott Nutter
> 1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi.
> Houston, Texas
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Low Riders use hydraulics.
--
Terry Kelpien

ASE Master Technician

73 Glacier 260

Smithfield, Va.
 
Does anyone know the size of the original air storage tank on the EL1 or earlier systems? 1 gallon? Or dimensions?
Thanks, scott
--
Scott Nutter
1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi.
Houston, Texas
 
> Does anyone know the size of the original air storage tank on the EL1 or earlier systems? 1 gallon? Or dimensions?
> Thanks, scott

Scott,

There is on the floor of my shop. my guess would be it to be about an half gallon. I could actually measure it if it matters. The PL tank was
considerably larger. The only reason you want the tank is so the pump does not short cycle and be annoying.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
After penciling this thing out and crunching some numbers, I think Keith is absolutely right.
Only one pump and no storage tank..........although the other systems would work just as good.

With one pump it's basically plug in and go.
With the tank system you would need a pressure switch, pressure relief valve, and drain valve. Then the wiring to the pump controller from the
pressure switch. Just extra work.

I'm running a pretty heavy coach, so my travel psi is about 90psi (Quagrabags). My thoughts would be the Viair 420c. 150psi and about 2.3 CFM. More
cfm for guicker fills in that 90 psi range.
With a tank I would think the Viair 480c at 200psi and 1.8 cfm would be the mother of all small pumps.

Any recommendations or Corrections?
Scott
--
Scott Nutter
1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi.
Houston, Texas
 
But if you have a tank already (because it is an early coach), that
pressure switch and tank pop-off valve are what you need to avoid blowing
up a bag if one of the valves sticks, or if the coach can't level. It will
level to the pressure of a full tank and the pump will simply stop. It's
like leaving a PLI coach in Raise--once it reaches full height (meaning the
bogies are at minimum shock or up against the bogie frame) the bag keeps
filling up until its pressure is the same as the tank. If the tank's
pressure is controlled to safe levels, there is no worry.

But it would be better to have a limiter at the full travel point to close
the valve.

Rick "thinking the main advantage to this for those who have working PLI
systems is the automatic leveling" Denney

> After penciling this thing out and crunching some numbers, I think Keith
> is absolutely right.
> Only one pump and no storage tank..........although the other systems
> would work just as good.
>
> With one pump it's basically plug in and go.
> With the tank system you would need a pressure switch, pressure relief
> valve, and drain valve. Then the wiring to the pump controller from the
> pressure switch. Just extra work.
>
> I'm running a pretty heavy coach, so my travel psi is about 90psi
> (Quagrabags). My thoughts would be the Viair 420c. 150psi and about 2.3
> CFM. More
> cfm for guicker fills in that 90 psi range.
> With a tank I would think the Viair 480c at 200psi and 1.8 cfm would be
> the mother of all small pumps.
>
> Any recommendations or Corrections?
> Scott
> --
> Scott Nutter
> 1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final
> drive, Quad bags, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi.
> Houston, Texas
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
 
Scott,

I have a Viair 480C in Double Trouble and the Kingsley has one of Darcy Moses's York compressors. Both have OEM air bags and will
stay that way.

See J.R. Wright's email below re Darcy's setup.

-----Original Message-----
From: John Wright [mailto:powerjon]
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 9:03 AM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [gmclist] York Air compressors

Both of my coaches use the York compressor. My 77 has the Darcy Moses Air package.

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=3849

And yes I can use air tools and inflate tires.

http://www.jedi.com/obiwan/jeep/yorkair.html

http://www.coloradok5.com/york.shtml

J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
77 Eleganza Custom
1975 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Scott Nutter
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2018 7:54 AM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Microlevel for the EL11 systems (1978)

After penciling this thing out and crunching some numbers, I think Keith is absolutely right.
Only one pump and no storage tank..........although the other systems would work just as good.

With one pump it's basically plug in and go.
With the tank system you would need a pressure switch, pressure relief valve, and drain valve. Then the wiring to the pump
controller from the pressure switch. Just extra work.

I'm running a pretty heavy coach, so my travel psi is about 90psi (QuadraBag). My thoughts would be the Viair 420c. 150psi and about
2.3 CFM. More cfm for quicker fills in that 90 psi range.
With a tank I would think the Viair 480c at 200psi and 1.8 cfm would be the mother of all small pumps.

Any recommendations or Corrections?
Scott
--
 
The York system is pretty damn cool. I've never seen one before.
But I think I want to stay as basic and commercial as possible. So I'm still liking the Viair 420c. If it doesn't work out, and I change out to the
480c, then someone will get a very good deal on a slightly used Viair 420c.
After all, this isn't rocket science (you know I had to get that in!!).
Scott.
--
Scott Nutter
1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi.
Houston, Texas
 
Scott,

I searched Amazon for a Viair 420C ($160.95 & Free Shipping) and a 480C ($209.87 + Free Shipping).

Yep, it's not rocket science and as we used to say when playing poker in Saigon and someone would try to buy the pot; "I'd watch two
monkeys copulate for 50 BUCKS!"

:-)

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808


-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Scott Nutter
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2018 5:58 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Microlevel for the EL11 systems (1978)

The York system is pretty damn cool. I've never seen one before.
But I think I want to stay as basic and commercial as possible. So I'm still liking the Viair 420c. If it doesn't work out, and I
change out to the 480c, then someone will get a very good deal on a slightly used Viair 420c.
After all, this isn't rocket science (you know I had to get that in!!).
Scott.
 
I used York systems in a few builds. Extremely fast fill ups for 2-5 gallon air tanks. Only draw back was that they weren’t originally designed to be used for air bags. I had to have 2 water traps in the systems to catch any blow by oil from the compressor and have a drain valve in the tanks because the traps would never catch all of the oil. Some rubber mounted viairs are the least amount of work and very easy to get and fix if necessary.

Sent from my iPhone

>
> Scott,
>
> I searched Amazon for a Viair 420C ($160.95 & Free Shipping) and a 480C ($209.87 + Free Shipping).
>
> Yep, it's not rocket science and as we used to say when playing poker in Saigon and someone would try to buy the pot; "I'd watch two
> monkeys copulate for 50 BUCKS!"
>
> :-)
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> The Pedantic Mechanic
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Scott Nutter
> Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2018 5:58 PM
> To: gmclist
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Microlevel for the EL11 systems (1978)
>
> The York system is pretty damn cool. I've never seen one before.
> But I think I want to stay as basic and commercial as possible. So I'm still liking the Viair 420c. If it doesn't work out, and I
> change out to the 480c, then someone will get a very good deal on a slightly used Viair 420c.
> After all, this isn't rocket science (you know I had to get that in!!).
> Scott.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
The EL 2 GM compressors used a dessicant/dryer/ mini air tank. More like a
pulse chamber, than a tank, all it did was smooth out the air that
exhausted from the compressor. The dessicant feature trapped and evaporated
the moisture concentrated when air is compressed. They were a sealed up
unit attached to each compressor. The compressors were a permanent magnet
type DC electric motor, and therin was their downfall. The Alnico magnets
eventually lost their magnetism, and the motors lost power. (They were
never supposed to last 40 years). Answer? Use modern Rare Earth Magnets
like ViAir uses in their compressors. Even if they used crap magnets, they
should not be a problem for many of us. (Grin) Most of the ViAir
compressors only differ in the type of external finish, or carrying handle
configuration. They pretty much all will outperform what GM used. Once in a
while we get a great product from offshore manufacturers. These things are
not cheap. But, they are very high quality.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403

> I used York systems in a few builds. Extremely fast fill ups for 2-5
> gallon air tanks. Only draw back was that they weren’t originally designed
> to be used for air bags. I had to have 2 water traps in the systems to
> catch any blow by oil from the compressor and have a drain valve in the
> tanks because the traps would never catch all of the oil. Some rubber
> mounted viairs are the least amount of work and very easy to get and fix if
> necessary.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Feb 24, 2018, at 3:38 AM, Rob Mueller

> >
> > Scott,
> >
> > I searched Amazon for a Viair 420C ($160.95 & Free Shipping) and a 480C
> ($209.87 + Free Shipping).
> >
> > Yep, it's not rocket science and as we used to say when playing poker in
> Saigon and someone would try to buy the pot; "I'd watch two
> > monkeys copulate for 50 BUCKS!"
> >
> > :-)
> >
> > Regards,
> > Rob M.
> > The Pedantic Mechanic
> > Sydney, Australia
> > AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> > USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
> > USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of
> Scott Nutter
> > Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2018 5:58 PM
> > To: gmclist
> > Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Microlevel for the EL11 systems (1978)
> >
> > The York system is pretty damn cool. I've never seen one before.
> > But I think I want to stay as basic and commercial as possible. So I'm
> still liking the Viair 420c. If it doesn't work out, and I
> > change out to the 480c, then someone will get a very good deal on a
> slightly used Viair 420c.
> > After all, this isn't rocket science (you know I had to get that in!!).
> > Scott.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
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