Low-Tox" Propylene Glycol coolant

[wayne newland]

Rick

Check with the Wynn Oil Company. They do a lot of work with cooling systems. I
was a rep with them for about 10 years, but I can't help you with this one.
Their tech dept is 800-645-8101. Let us know what they say.

Wayne Newland F9300 75 Palm Beach Columbia, (10 day) Md

> Does anyone have experience using propylene glycol-based antifreeze in
> their GMC or otherwise? (In the cooling system that is.) I like the
> low-toxicity feature, and the increased boiling point.
> I know I will need a higher concentration vs ethylene glycol to get the
> same freeze protection, but that's OK. From the label, a 67% solution of
> propylene glycol will take me down to -76 deg. F, which should be sufficient
> unless we get a REALLY cold winter. ;-) The same concentration gives a
> +266 deg. F boiling point, which is also pretty good.
> What I want to know is whether there is any significant difference in
> heat-transfer capability vs. ethylene glycol. A few web searches revealed
> astonishingly little information, almost none of any relevance. My late '70s
> vintage Scientific Encyclopedia doesn't even acknowledge the existance of
> prop. glycol. The SAE will sell me some papers for $10 to $30 each, but I
> thought I'd ask here first. Anyone...?? TIA.
>
> Rick Staples
> '75 Eleganza
> Louisville, CO

 

[donald w. miller]

Rick,

This site mentions heat transfer but gives no specifics. You might try
calling them. http://www.sierraantifreeze.com/sierra/

Don't have any technicals to pass along to you but I have used Sierra brand
in our trawler for about 4 years. A pair of Turbocharged 160 hp inboard
diesels and also with a pair of 62 hp normal aspirated diesels.

All I know is it has been well tested in this application and I have zero
complaint.

If there is any significant difference in heat transfer, my coolings systems
have enough reserve capacity to mask it.

The coolant also cools the aluminum exhaust manifolds on these engines and I
watch for any ill effects to the aluminum, but have seen nothing so far.

Some firms advertise Propylene Glycol as non toxic. I believe it is far
less toxic than ethylene glycol, but somewhat toxic if enough is consumed.
I also wonder how toxic the additive packages are.

Don Miller
75 project
Shenandoah Valley of Virginia

> Does anyone have experience using propylene glycol-based antifreeze in
> their GMC or otherwise? (In the cooling system that is.) I like the
> low-toxicity feature, and the increased boiling point.
> I know I will need a higher concentration vs ethylene glycol to get the
> same freeze protection, but that's OK. From the label, a 67% solution of
> propylene glycol will take me down to -76 deg. F, which should be
sufficient
> unless we get a REALLY cold winter. ;-) The same concentration gives a
> +266 deg. F boiling point, which is also pretty good.

> What I want to know is whether there is any significant difference in
> heat-transfer capability vs. ethylene glycol. A few web searches revealed
> astonishingly little information, almost none of any relevance. My late
'70s
> vintage Scientific Encyclopedia doesn't even acknowledge the existance of
> prop. glycol. The SAE will sell me some papers for $10 to $30 each, but I
> thought I'd ask here first. Anyone...?? TIA.

> Rick Staples
> '75 Eleganza
> Louisville, CO

 

[wayne newland]

Emery

It sounds like we went to the same school together. Thanks for backing me up.
The only area that I would differ is in the additive package. At Wynn's, we
recommended that the can of additive be added to keep the level good for about a
year. Could the anti-freeze manf put this in? Of course, but it would cost
more, and the average buyer goes for price in anti-freeze. If your anti-freeze
tests out good after a year, go ahead and add a bottle of Wynn's Cooling System
Treatment. At the end of 2 years, chemically flush and refill. Yes, add a
bottle of Wynn's Stop Leak to take care of the little leaks (good cheap
insurance).

Emery - Do you want me to get you a job with your local Dist?

Wayne Newland F9300 75 Palm Beach Columbia, (Redskins won)

>
> merchandisers, I'd expect more hard info on it. >>
>
> Rick -- I'd be very cautious about putting the Propylene Glycol antifreeze
> from these sources into my radiator. The type that they sell is actually
> intended to be pumped into the water lines of a motorhome or trailer so that
> the lines don't freeze in the winter. I usually buy a job or two from
> Walmart myself to use for the plumbing lines. It is an antifreeze NOT a
> coolant. They are lacking in the other things that an antifreeze/coolant
> needs for service in an internal combustion engine.
>
> Corrosion inhibitors: at the high temperatures in an engine, corrosion is
> greatly accelerated. You have several dissimilar metals, aluminum, copper,
> brass, steel, cast iron, zinc, lead solder and perhaps others. A good
> coolant has the proper inhibitors to take care of this.
>
> Rubber swell agents which keep the hoses and seals and gaskets that are in
> contact with the coolant from either shrinking or swelling too much. This
> prevents leaks.
>
> Anti-foam agents: This keeps the coolant from foaming, especially in the
> water pump. If it foams it won't transfer heat properly from the hot
> surfaces.
>
> Water pump lubricant which keeps the shaft seal from wearing and leaking,
> thus ruining the pump.
>
> All of these components must work together and not interact. That is why it
> is usually not advisable to use other additives in your radiator. The
> additive might not be compatible with the things in the antifreeze and could
> react or nullify some of the properties. Wayne Newland (Wynn's products)
> will probably disagree with this, but if you change the antifreeze at least
> every 24 months you shouldn't have to use any additives. A stop leak such as
> Wynn's is an exception. But don't use the oil based ones. Use the powdered
> or water based ones. The oil will screw up the antifoam properties.
>
> Now - there are propylene glycol antifreeze coolants on the market that do
> work in higher temperatures including an automotive engine and which have the
> proper chemistry to protect the system. I believe that Prestone now has one.
>
> If you need more boil-out protection you should examine what the cause is.
> The ethylene glycol antifreeze should work fine in the GMC. If you are
> overheating there is another reason. Don't just put a band-air on the wound.
> Cure the cause.
>
> Let me know if you have other questions.
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Santa Fe, NM

 

[wayne newland]

Rick

The animal rights people have been pushing the heck out this stuff because, it's
not supposed to kill animals that lick the sweet leaks of regular anti-freeze.
And, I heard that a portion of the sales was going to support the rights groups.
If I'm wrong, I'm sorry, but I don't think so. My cat breeder friends keep me up
to date on this.

Wayne Newland

>
> > I'd be very cautious about putting the Propylene Glycol antifreeze
> > from these sources into my radiator. The type that they sell is actually
> > intended to be pumped into the water lines of a motorhome or trailer
>
> Emery,
> Hey old friend, I may be dumb but I ain't THAT stupid. ;-) This stuff
> is formulated and sold as an engine coolant, "Prestone Low Tox" brand to be
> exact. It's not the "pink stuff" we all put in our water systems for winter.
> Maybe it's not being marketed everywhere, but it was all over the Boulder
> area, with a big push on its safety to pets and wildlife.
> Again, to quote the jug: "PRESTONE Low Tox (TM) Antifreeze/Coolant is a
> technologically advanced antifreeze/coolant. Its proprietary corrosion
> inhibitor package was developed and tested by the experts at Prestone
> Products. PRESTONE Low Tox (TM) propylene glycol formula is guaranteed to
> meet or exceed ASTM industry protection standards for cars and light-duty
> trucks......"
> No offence taken. There are folks out there that would pour "pink stuff"
> into their cooling system, so your concern is understandable. Thanks again
> for your always cogent posts.
>
> Rick Staples
> '75 Eleganza
> Louisville, CO

 

[wayne newland]

Rick

Go ahead and use it. I'd still try to keep it close to 50/50. Too much AF and
you get corrosion. Too much water, you get rust. Pure regular AF will freeze.
(This is the short version)

Wayne Newland

>
> >
> > If you need more boil-out protection you should examine what the cause is.
>
> > The ethylene glycol antifreeze should work fine in the GMC. If you are
> > overheating there is another reason. Don't just put a band-air on the
> wound.
> >
> > Cure the cause.
> >
>
> Emery,
> To continue my last message..... I don't have any overheating or boiling
> problems. In fact, my GMC has never given any hint of overheating, in the
> hottest weather, heaviest traffic, or longest, highest, mountains. Last
> summer we did bumper-to-bumper traffic around Gary/Chicago at 107+ degrees F,
> then rolled across Nebraska at about 80 mph and 90 degrees. As far as I know
> I have the original (audible, but barely) fan clutch.
> I'd just like to use the propylene glycol antifreeze, but don't want to
> mess up a good thing! That's why I'm asking.
> Thanks again.
>
> Rick Staples
> '75 Eleganza
> Louisville, CO