Low Oil Pressure

[johnny]

I worried about low oil pressure in the lunched engine. Wasn't quite that low, but high 20s hot. However it died to a broken crankshaft, which broke
elsewhere than in a bearing. Go figure

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell

 

[Jim Hupy]

When I first bought my 78 Royale in 2008, that was my first experience with
a 403 Olds. I got out all my Oldsmobile data, which is considerable. I have
owned Oldsmobile powered devices in one form or another since about 1959.
But when it came to the 403, nada. So i pulled up the engine hatch,
and took out the inner fenders, and took a good long look-see. Pulled the
plugs, and did a wet-n-dry compression check. Wrote it all down. Changed
all the filters and fluids, flushed the cooling system, etc.etc. The
factory oil pressure gage is one of those wonder instruments. You always
wonder what they mean! So, I pulled the sender and screwed in my precision
mechanical test gage. Started the engine and fully warmed it up.
Hot and idling, I got 10 to 12 psi oil pressure, in drive holding the
brakes on revved up to the stall speed of the torque converter, I read 45
psi. Nothing to brag to your friends about here. I logged it away in my
records, and vowed to keep my eye on it.
Here we are 12 years later, and I am still keeping my eye on it. I
changed from 10 w -30 that the previous owner was using, to 15-40 Valvoline
Dino oil, which i still use today. Engine burns a quart in 1500 miles or
so, and I drive it like I stole it. I change oil about every 4000 miles or
so. Filter too.
I took an oil sample once and sent it to Blackstone, the report came back
as a normal high mileage engine.
So my take on this low oil pressure thing is this. Keep your eye on
it. Change it at regular intervals. WATCH FOR ANY SUDDER DRASTIC CHANGES IN
PRESSURE READINGS. Just drive it.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Tue, Apr 14, 2020, 5:21 AM Johnny Bridges via Gmclist <

> I worried about low oil pressure in the lunched engine. Wasn't quite that
> low, but high 20s hot. However it died to a broken crankshaft, which broke
> elsewhere than in a bearing. Go figure
>
> --johnny
> --
> Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> Braselton, Ga.
> I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me
> in hell
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

 

[jkent01]

Hi James

Thanks for weighing in. Your experience and your summary ties together with Matt's. Today was a bad day so I didn't get any work done. I thought I
would have it far enough back together to start it yesterday. Good thing I didn't bet anyone I would. Hopefully tomorrow I'll finish a few wiring, and
one vacuum connection. We will lower it down off the blocks to make sure the oil is sitting in the pan like it's supposed to and start it. The only
change I've actually made is disconnecting and bypassing the engine oil cooler. If there was any blockage, it will bump up the oil pressure a little.
But if not, I'll be sending a sample of oil (from the saved oil) off to Blackstone. Hopefully that will come back normal. We shall see

John

 

[jkent01]

Larry

I replied to you this morning but I guess I didn't press send. I cannot find it or a draft or ? What I was saying is that the pictures you were
looking at were not of my oil filter adapter. I could not get a photo to upload due to size so I copied and pasted the link you were looking at. Sorry
if I wasn't clear on that.

Thanks
John

 

[LarryW]

> Larry
>
> I replied to you this morning but I guess I didn't press send. I cannot find it or a draft or ? What I was saying is that the pictures you were
> looking at were not of my oil filter adapter. I could not get a photo to upload due to size so I copied and pasted the link you were looking at.
> Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.
>
> Thanks
> John

Sorry John, but this is the photo I was referring to. Guess I was contributing to the confusion. Looking at the valve covers, I noticed the valve
covers were not stock and just wanted to know if they have baffles built in.

--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.

 

[dave king]

To whoever posted the photos about oil cooler line positioning, not to
Start a war, but do you know what is said someplace on the web about that orange
Thing mounted where the oil filter normally goes. Good comes frm WIX and is black.
--
DAVE KING
lurker, wannabe
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 

[Ken B]

> To whoever posted the photos about oil cooler line positioning, not to
> start a war, but do you know what is said someplace on the web about that orange
> thing mounted where the oil filter normally goes. Good comes from WIX and is black

I saw that too. "Friends do not let friends" use Fram or drive Fords (except to the junk yard and then you tow them).
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

 

[johnny]

Ken when I can get the same life out of another pickup I'll eschew the Fords. (There's a reason they outsell every other vehicle in the US and have
for 30 + years). Passed the last one on due to a rusted roof over my seat that let rain in on me, new owner is still running it. He got it at 500K
miles. A 67 Dodge d - 200 was it's equal with a /6 in it. current F 150 (88) which I bought off another GMCer with granny gear trans and 300 6 shows
no signs of faltering after 32 years and who knows how many miles.

My mechanic bud likes Wix, but says if you're changing good oil every three thousand, or ever six months if it goes less, it probably doesn't matter
what filter's on it, but get the Wix and don't worry.

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell

 

[Jim Hupy]

I developed an intense dislike for Fords about the time they started
putting the valves in the cylinder heads. About 1954 or so. Those "Y"
blocks were sludge monsters. Then came the 332, 352, 390 thin walled blocks
with 2 bolt main bearings. They scattered the landscape with broken parts.
Then, they kinda woke up a bit. Side oiler 427's, Small blocks with cross
bolted main bearings, large bore, short stroke combinations. Built some
really good 302 stuff. Then, Smog reared its ugly head along with a ban on
factory supported race teams. But, Ford managed to absolutely dominate
LeMans for a number of years. Indy cars, too. Then they went back to sleep.
I bought my first "modern" ford in 1993. An Aerostar van for our flower
shop. It had a 3 liter Mazda motor in it. Ran it to 165,000 miles. Worried
about it breaking down, so bought a brand new one with a 4 liter motor.
Drove that one 250,000 + miles, and when I went to replace it, Ford
discontinued the Aerostar. So I bought a E-150 van. The flower shop is long
gone, along with my wife Mary who passed away. The flower shop has changed
hands 3 times, but that van is still parked out front and sees use daily. I
have no idea how miles it has now, but we put over 100,000 miles a year of
stop and go driving while we had it. Doubt that it gets quite that many
miles now, but it could easily have over 500.000 miles.
So, nothing wrong with modern fords in my book.
I have a 5.0 liter High Output small block sitting on my work bench,
waiting for a bit of time for me to shoehorn it into my last hot rod. A
1948 Willys/Overland Jeepster. I will do this one right, it will be my last
one, probably. But, I don't currently have any Fords in my stable. I love
the appearance of brand new Mustangs, but after 3 years or so, most of them
look tired and outdated.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Thu, Apr 16, 2020, 8:06 AM Johnny Bridges via Gmclist <

> Ken when I can get the same life out of another pickup I'll eschew the
> Fords. (There's a reason they outsell every other vehicle in the US and have
> for 30 + years). Passed the last one on due to a rusted roof over my seat
> that let rain in on me, new owner is still running it. He got it at 500K
> miles. A 67 Dodge d - 200 was it's equal with a /6 in it. current F 150
> (88) which I bought off another GMCer with granny gear trans and 300 6 shows
> no signs of faltering after 32 years and who knows how many miles.
>
> My mechanic bud likes Wix, but says if you're changing good oil every
> three thousand, or ever six months if it goes less, it probably doesn't
> matter
> what filter's on it, but get the Wix and don't worry.
>
> --johnny
> --
> Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> Braselton, Ga.
> I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me
> in hell
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

 

[johnny]

We used 350 Econolines for years as promotions rides. We found out the 350 would outlast the 150 in that service by about two to one, and only cost
about a grand more up front. Standard promotional appearance was two or four hours sitting and idling in the Atlanta summer, then load up and haul
ass to the next one and do the same. Each truck had a wood block the height of a standard beer can - which was used originally - to sit under the
hood. Raised the front about three inches and left the side seams gapped and let all the hot air out of the engine room. Mind, six to nine major
promotions per weekend, same amount of 'appearances' which last an hour or two. Call in appearances in bars usually two a night or three late in the
week weeknights. They survived this sort of treatment for three years, then we sold them. Usually an employee bought them, they were offered in
house first. I never had the guts to put a Hobbs clock in one of them just to see the hours they ran. About every three years one of the stations
would get euchred into buying a Chev van and reporting back the results, which were never close to the Fords. These purchases had zero to do with
brand loyalty, and everything to do with cost of operation. Three years was/is about the lifetime of the wrap we put on them... as long as no one ran
into the truck. (If you want an eye opener, tell your insurance company you want them to cover a promotions truck for a top five radio station in a
top ten market city with logos all over it.)
As a point of interest, I was told, buy at the dealer's asking price, we don't dicker. Usually that was the invoice price for the truck plus tax, at
the Sales Manager's request. Then when he sent an account exec out to sell the dealer some advertising and they tried to cheap it down, he'd remind
them, we play on your turf at your rate, we expect you to do the same for us. Standard memo to Sales once a year, "Getting ready to replace the 19xx
van with a new one. Which Ford dealer do you want to get it from?" When the Head Of All The Engineers questioned the buy, he was referred to the
Head Of Selling Ads. Only happened once.

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell

 

[Ken B]

The only reason Ford branded trucks outsell Chevy or GMC is GM sells their vehicles across two brands instead of one. I have friend who loves Fords.
He says because he can always find parts for his in the junk yard. I say that is where many many Fords ended up way too early in their life. I am
driving three GM vehicles that are between 21 and 15 years old. The oldest one has around 270,000 miles and the youngest one has around 160,000
miles. None of them has any body rust including the roof. I also have a 44 year old GMC that is still on the road. How,many 44 year old Ford
motorhomes are still on the road?

I see I was successful with my post because I woke up a few people out there and got them away from watching the talking heads on TV telling us how
much they know about viruses.

I read a good book yesterday for $.99 on Amazon ebooks. "Robinson Crusoe USN" written by and about W/O George R. Tweed USN. It was published in
1946. It was better than watching the "talking heads" all day or contemplating Fords.

Have nice day.


--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

 

[johnny]

If you like Naval stuff, read Daniel Gallery.

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell

 

[jkent01]

I do have a bit of an update. I feel like I'm chasing my tail out here not knowing which iteration of my original post to reply to. Not complaining,
just going cross-eyed trying to make sure I don't slight anyone. Apologies if I did.

So here goes. We did get it started, set the timing and it ran great. I feel like I gained maybe a couple pounds of oil pressure at an engine speed of
2,500 - 3,000 RPMs, perhaps the equivalent of 55 mph. But this is very unscientific, just seat of my pants. I need to get a tach. At this point I am
running the oil Jeff Sirum put in for me, 5 qts of 20w50 Valvoline VR1 and a quart of Lucas but with a new oil filter. The oil cooler adapter
sandwiched between the filter and filter adapter has been removed and hanging there for the moment. We are still up on blocks albeit lowered a little
to level it our on the sloping driveway. The oil has 280 miles on it. I saved out about 5 ounces of oil in a clear glass jar to send to Blackstone.
Then I thought better of it and decided to put a few hundred more miles on this oil before drawing a sample. I poured the oil back in the engine from
the glass jar then thought about what you said about a magnet or looking in the bottom of a drain pain for metal particles. There is about a teaspoon
of oil remaining in the glass jar so I have been rolling the jar around, looking at the thin film of oil on the inside of the jar. I cannot see any
trace of anything resembling metal, just oil. I took it out in the direct sunlight and still saw nothing but oil. I was also mistaken about Blackstone
taking a month. I talked to a Blackstone analyst and she said if I sent a sample Priority shipping on a Monday, they would probably have the results
posted online by Friday. I'll just drive it and keep a close eye on the gauge and keep my ears open not unlike what you and Jim Hupy say. After
another 500 miles or so, I'll draw a sample and ship it off to Blackstone.

I still need to tend to the oil cooler adapter, sealing it off for now. I hesitate to remove it as I am not sure if the oil cooling system lowers my
oil pressure in any way. I have yet to finish mounting the a/c compressor or the new PS pump. The instructions say to flush the old PS oil. I hope
Advance Auto Parts or Napa or O'Reilly's has a tool to do that. Then I'll move on to the next problem in the queue. I think that will be gas dripping
(fast drip, almost a stream) out of the new fuel vapor separator Sirum installed. Same problem as the old one. It seems to be acting like an overflow.
It starts leaking when I am filling it. During the fill when I discovered the new fuel vapor separator leaking, I also discovered a similar gas leak
in the area of the charcoal filter canister behind the front passenger tire. That makes two similar gasoline leaks on opposite sides of the coach. I
am still attempting to determine just exactly when I have finally gotten it full of gas, document it, and have a point of reference; and also whether
I am overfilling it or if there is such a thing.

I attempted to update my profile somewhat. It is difficult with the page blinking while trying to type. After several minutes of that, I thought I
heard the sounds of "Strawberry Fields Forever" drifting through my mind.

Thanks again for all of your help, all of you.

John and Sharon

 

[Matt Colie]

John,

Helping other owners is why most of us are here. (We get helped too.)
Please do not hesitate to ask.

You wrote "sealing off" about the lube oil cooler. Is it still in place and functioning? If yes, just leave it alone. Your lube oil delivery
pressure is adequate. Enjoy it.

Reattaching the lube oil cooler (if it is not) may cost you a small amount of lube oil delivery pressure. If is more than a needle width, it probably
needs cleaning. Running clean oil though this, but it may take a while.

If the fuel separator Jeff's people installed is leaking fuel, it was not installed correctly. This is very believable at this point because it is
also supposed to keep any wet fuel from getting to the carbon canister. So, if that gets fixed you should clear both issues.

Glad to see you have not gotten discouraged.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

 

[jkent01]

Hi Matt

Thanks for helping, again. As for sealing off, I unbolted the oil cooler adapter from the filter adapter, but only temporarily. I wanted to seal
it off before I take the coach down off the blocks so it doesn't get any dirt in it. It will not be permanently sealed off. I have not yet
"MacGyvered" a way to seal it that won't melt next to the exhaust manifolds, but I'll think of something. Maybe some brass plugs that are the same
thread that will plug the lines from the radiator. Then I could remove the adapter, clean it and put it in a plastic bag until I'm ready to put it
back on.

I'll look at the new fuel separator valve. Hopefully I can put it on correctly and save a lot of hassle. Okeechobee is two and a half hours from
Tampa. :?
Again, thank you Matt. I'll keep you updated.

John and Sharon

 

[Jim Hupy]

Make two plates the diameter of an oil filter or slightly larger out of non
combustible material. (Metal) drill a hole in the middle for a bolt and
nut. Use a gasket between the plates and the adapter on each side. Bolt the
thing together, tie wrap it away from header heat, and Bob's your Uncle, to
use an Aussie expression.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 6:59 AM John and Sharon Kent via Gmclist <

> Hi Matt
>
> Thanks for helping, again. As for sealing off, I unbolted the oil
> cooler adapter from the filter adapter, but only temporarily. I wanted to
> seal
> it off before I take the coach down off the blocks so it doesn't get any
> dirt in it. It will not be permanently sealed off. I have not yet
> "MacGyvered" a way to seal it that won't melt next to the exhaust
> manifolds, but I'll think of something. Maybe some brass plugs that are the
> same
> thread that will plug the lines from the radiator. Then I could remove the
> adapter, clean it and put it in a plastic bag until I'm ready to put it
> back on.
>
> I'll look at the new fuel separator valve. Hopefully I can put it on
> correctly and save a lot of hassle. Okeechobee is two and a half hours from
> Tampa. :?
> Again, thank you Matt. I'll keep you updated.
>
> John and Sharon
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

 

[Ken H.]

John,

You may want to thing the fuel pump thing through a little differently:

1. You need an electric fuel pump for vapor lock protection. I suggest
the Carter 4070 which has proven itself for a lot of people. I personally
would NEVER plumb it through the mechanical pump for fear of diaphragm
failure resulting in fuel in the engine oil.

2. You need a dependable tank selector -- the OEM one is subject to
failure in several modes, not merely its 40+ years age.

3. A second Carter 4070 will cost little more than a new tank selector
valve and will probably be easier to mount and plumb. It will provide
redundancy, even after removing the mechanical pump.

4. When you install EFI, you can continue to use the 2 low pressure pump
to feed, either directly, or through an accumulator tank, the high pressure
pump(s).

In-tank pumps have improved cooling and, perhaps, better vapor lock
protection. On the other hand, they're more expensive than external pumps
and MUCH more difficult to change in case of a failure.

Personally, I run two Carter 4070's which feed a forward-mounted
accumulator tank (with return to the Aux tank). That accumulator feeds
independent high pressure pumps for my GM OEM-style EFI with the EBL
upgrade. I have been from Key West to Alaska in the summertime without
ever experiencing vapor lock.

JMHO,

Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, Troy-Bilt APU, etc., etc., etc.
www.gmcwipersetc.com

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:59 AM John and Sharon Kent via Gmclist <

> Hi Matt
>
> Thanks for helping, again. As for sealing off, I unbolted the oil
> cooler adapter from the filter adapter, but only temporarily. I wanted to
> seal
> it off before I take the coach down off the blocks so it doesn't get any
> dirt in it. It will not be permanently sealed off. I have not yet
> "MacGyvered" a way to seal it that won't melt next to the exhaust
> manifolds, but I'll think of something. Maybe some brass plugs that are the
> same
> thread that will plug the lines from the radiator. Then I could remove the
> adapter, clean it and put it in a plastic bag until I'm ready to put it
> back on.
>
> I'll look at the new fuel separator valve. Hopefully I can put it on
> correctly and save a lot of hassle. Okeechobee is two and a half hours from
> Tampa. :?
> Again, thank you Matt. I'll keep you updated.
>
> John and Sharon
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

 

[jkent01]

Gosh! I can't believe it's been over three weeks since I've been out here. I owe James Hupy a thank you for an idea to temporarily substitute for the
oil cooler adapter sandwiched between the oil filter and the oil filter adapter bolted to the block. I guess mine is a little different. After
removing the oil cooler adapter, I was able to unscrew a large brass piece that stuck through the adapter which was screwed into the same place the
filter is now screwed onto.
Thanks to Ken Henderson for tips to avoid vapor lock. I have filed it in upcoming projects. I also want to thank Ken for tons of pictures I have been
able to use for a variety of tasks I was dealing with.
I have not made a lot of progress since my last update. Dreamweaver is still up on blocks. Got the PS pump mounted. Forgot to put the V-belts on
before installing the fan. It's easier to remove the fan (4 nuts) than trying to weave the belts through the fan blades. Did I mention I pressed the
pulley on the PS pump before attaching the mounting bracket? Another trip to O'Reilly's to rent the puller. Fun stuff! Installed the last fan shroud
bracket. Those can be a puzzle to figure out how they attache. At least we labeled the brackets as we removed them. Cleaned off some of the greasy
mess on the engine from the old, leaking, PS pump. Installed a used Final Drive cover to replace the one with a big dent in it and filled it with
80-90 Gear Lube. Removed the rusted lines of the engine oil cooler. still need to cover the fittings on the two hoses hanging from the radiator.
Getting close to finishing. I guess you could say it was an exercise in futility. We did all that for nothing other than a new PS pump and Final Drive
Cover.
I've yacked long enough. I do have a serious question. Friends with good intentions always have advise which is usually not relevant. However I did
get a great question from a nephew. Is there anywhere there might be an oil port close to the oil pump where I could connect the new AutoGauge manual
oil pressure gauge? It seems like I would get a higher oil pressure reading.
Many thanks to all of you once again.
John and Sharon

 

[Matt Colie]

> I've yakked long enough. I do have a serious question. Friends with good intentions always have advise which is usually not relevant. However I
> did get a great question from a nephew. Is there anywhere there might be an oil port close to the oil pump where I could connect the new AutoGauge
> manual oil pressure gauge? It seems like I would get a higher oil pressure reading before the oil is forced through the cam and lifters and valve
> train.
> Many thanks to all of you once again.
> John and Sharon
> P.S. I just received an update from a previous owner. This is about fourth-hand information so take it for what it's worth. Here is an excerpt
> from what he just wrote: "The only thing my uncle could find out, is as far as the family knows, no major work was done to the engine. It had sat
> for approximately 10 years being cranked from time to time. He said they drove across the country a few times to pikes peak."

John,

While I was dealing with multiple 455s I took almost as many pictures as I needed. They have severed to refresh my memory here and....
There are only two locations that the engine lube oil pressure can be tapped that are not buried deeply in the assembly.
First is the tap point behind the cooling water pump where the current pressure tap is located.
A second location could be tapped into the filter adapter. Removing that adapter, tapping it and reinstalling it would not be any great risk.

It should be noted that the adapter is the only place that gets the direct lube oil pump output.

There are also other things that can cause a low lube oil distribution pressure. One of the most common is that a tiny particle of micro-crud got
stuck in the pressure relief valve that is internal to the lube oil pump. That will cause the low pressure at idle every time. Unfortunately,
accessing the lube oil pump in a 455 in a FWD application is a bear. As said before, you made it the 1400 miles home. I suggest that you put the
coach back on the ground and enjoy it for at least a little while before you tear into any deeper. If you can't hear the lifters (technically called
hydraulic lash adjusters) rattle, then there is adequate lube oil pressure. The rattle case will most likely be apparent at a hot idle.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

 

[jkent01]

Hi Matt

Sending an oil sample to Blackstone after more miles on the existing oil will be next. Tapping into the oil filter adapter would be worth a try.
Connecting copper tubing kits together would reach the oil filter adapter. When that is attempted at some point in the near future, could I impose on
you, yet again, for a rough sketch of where to install the tap, please? As you said, it would not be a great risk. It will be interesting to see if
the Autogauge oil pressure gauge would register higher oil pressure? It might even be worth running the adapter up to the local machine shop to have
them install the tap.

Thanks
John