Jasper engines

[bartz paul]

I just finished talking to Jim Bounds. He confirms the below. Said it was
a corporate decision based on excessive cost of warranty work on the 455
engines for the GMC.

Paul Bartz

From: F25CCapt [mailto:F25CCapt]
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 11:59 AM

Just heard that Jasper is no longer building the 455 engine! Sounded like
too good a deal to last.

Nelson 77 EII Orlando

 

[richard bachert]

Looks like that question I asked about retrofitting a diesel just moved up
the priority list.
Dick 75 PB in Atlanta

>I just finished talking to Jim Bounds. He confirms the below. Said it was
>a corporate decision based on excessive cost of warranty work on the 455
>engines for the GMC.
>
> Paul Bartz
>
>From: F25CCapt [mailto:F25CCapt]
>Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 11:59 AM
>
>Just heard that Jasper is no longer building the 455 engine! Sounded like
>too good a deal to last.
>
>Nelson 77 EII Orlando
>

 

[jim bounds1]

Paul,
Ya know what really stunk about the Jasper situation, we had decided to put
a Jasper into Nate Chases coach because of the warranty situation of being
soooo far away from him.

We opted for a Caspro engine, I hope to get it and the other stuff
installed and drive it to Forest City. Wish us luck!!

Jim Bounds
- -------------------

>Looks like that question I asked about retrofitting a diesel just moved up
>the priority list.
>Dick 75 PB in Atlanta
>

>>I just finished talking to Jim Bounds. He confirms the below. Said it was
>>a corporate decision based on excessive cost of warranty work on the 455
>>engines for the GMC.
>>
>> Paul Bartz
>>
>>From: F25CCapt [mailto:F25CCapt]
>>Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 11:59 AM
>>
>>Just heard that Jasper is no longer building the 455 engine! Sounded like
>>too good a deal to last.
>>
>>Nelson 77 EII Orlando
>>
>
>
>

 

[timothy brown]

Nate wrote: >

I hope Emery will jump in here and correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems
to me (from talking with Max at Buskirk's) that Emery's Jasper was
shipped without a bunch of parts. I don't recall exactly, but I think
Max said they had to add an oil pan, and possibly water pump, timing
chain, manifolds. I don't know if this is normal or not, but it had to
add to Emery's invoice.

Nate or Jim, does the Caspro engine come pretty complete? Maybe the
price difference isn't so big.

One thing I do recall for sure was that Max said Emery's Jasper arrived
unpainted, and they painted it Oldsmobile blue. If I had only known
about that ahead of time, Emery could have gotten a real nice "Spartan
Green" engine! ;-)

Tim Brown
78 Royale
Jackson Mich

 

[thomas g. warner]

Emory can answer for himself but all of the jasper engines and transmissions
that i have seen are very nicely painted and finished. The long block is
complete except for add ons like intake manifold, exhaustr manifold and
atlernator. They come wiht an oil pan and timeing chain etc. They are a
first rate product and the plants are modern and clean. They are priced way
before competitive engines. I do not consider an engine done locally
comparable to a jasper engine. They are not remanufactured and believe me
there is a difference

I am still talking to them and will give them a list of what i think we need
such as forged pistons, oil gallery restrictors, stainless steel valves and
all the rest.

>Nate wrote: (plus $400 shipping one way and $500 core) more thats a BIG
>difference.>>
>
>I hope Emery will jump in here and correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems
>to me (from talking with Max at Buskirk's) that Emery's Jasper was
>shipped without a bunch of parts. I don't recall exactly, but I think
>Max said they had to add an oil pan, and possibly water pump, timing
>chain, manifolds. I don't know if this is normal or not, but it had to
>add to Emery's invoice.
>
>Nate or Jim, does the Caspro engine come pretty complete? Maybe the
>price difference isn't so big.
>
>One thing I do recall for sure was that Max said Emery's Jasper arrived
>unpainted, and they painted it Oldsmobile blue. If I had only known
>about that ahead of time, Emery could have gotten a real nice "Spartan
>Green" engine! ;-)
>
>Tim Brown
>78 Royale
>Jackson Mich
>
>
>

 

[nate chase]

Tim,
Heres the URL for the Caspro 455.
http://www.ajusa.com/cgi-bin/shop/viewpart?cart=437102742493153&oid=2984160
It appears they are complete and run them to test. Sounds like they add a
few goodies even stockers don't have like the aluminum intake manifold. Just
hope I don't need a doghouse now. We'll let you all know how things
progress. If all goes smooth Jim will drive her up to FC convention and I'll
pick her up there.

Nate '75GB (waiting w/baited breath) Omaha

>>>>>>>
I hope Emery will jump in here and correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems
to me (from talking with Max at Buskirk's) that Emery's Jasper was
shipped without a bunch of parts. I don't recall exactly, but I think
Max said they had to add an oil pan, and possibly water pump, timing
chain, manifolds. I don't know if this is normal or not, but it had to
add to Emery's invoice.

Nate or Jim, does the Caspro engine come pretty complete? Maybe the
price difference isn't so big.

One thing I do recall for sure was that Max said Emery's Jasper arrived
unpainted, and they painted it Oldsmobile blue. If I had only known
about that ahead of time, Emery could have gotten a real nice "Spartan
Green" engine! ;-)

Tim Brown
78 Royale
Jackson Mich
>>>>

 

[thomas g. warner]

The caspro unit does not come wiht anyomre than the jasper and is $3000
more.The aluminum intake is extra on the caspro unit.

>Tim,
> Heres the URL for the Caspro 455.
>http://www.ajusa.com/cgi-bin/shop/viewpart?cart=437102742493153&oid=2984160
>It appears they are complete and run them to test. Sounds like they add a
>few goodies even stockers don't have like the aluminum intake manifold. Just
>hope I don't need a doghouse now. We'll let you all know how things
>progress. If all goes smooth Jim will drive her up to FC convention and I'll
>pick her up there.
>
>Nate '75GB (waiting w/baited breath) Omaha
>
> >>>>>>>
>I hope Emery will jump in here and correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems
>to me (from talking with Max at Buskirk's) that Emery's Jasper was
>shipped without a bunch of parts. I don't recall exactly, but I think
>Max said they had to add an oil pan, and possibly water pump, timing
>chain, manifolds. I don't know if this is normal or not, but it had to
>add to Emery's invoice.
>
>Nate or Jim, does the Caspro engine come pretty complete? Maybe the
>price difference isn't so big.
>
>One thing I do recall for sure was that Max said Emery's Jasper arrived
>unpainted, and they painted it Oldsmobile blue. If I had only known
>about that ahead of time, Emery could have gotten a real nice "Spartan
>Green" engine! ;-)
>
>Tim Brown
>78 Royale
>Jackson Mich
>>>>>
>
>
>

 

[terry skinner]

I have sat back here on the left coast and tried to keep my mouth shut, but
I can take only so much. If this guy is having trouble with employees and
suppliers and is complaining about comebacks I think the smart thing would
be to run (not walk) out of his shop. If Tom had put half the effort into a
local engine builder that he has invested into resurrecting this guy he
would have an engine that he could be proud of. Over on the other side of
town is an engine builder by the name of Cope Brothers. Their engines hold
drag and land speed records. You can eat off of any part of his shop. And if
you walk thru the door with a list of specs you want in your engine he will
build it for you, AND stand behind it. Surely, with all the stock cars and
drag racers back east there is a local engine builder that you can trust.
And you are not going to find them in the yellow pages. And last, may I
point out that a box stock 455 in my GMC has done 130,000 miles without a
wrench put to it. What an engine!!! Maybe we should be looking to General
Motors as a supplier. Just my opinion.........................Terry
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
.
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:54:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: warner
Subject: Re: GMC: Jasper Engines

Emory can answer for himself but all of the jasper engines and transmissions
that I have seen are very nicely painted and finished. The long block is
complete except for add ons like intake manifold, exhaustr manifold and
atlernator. They come wiht an oil pan and timeing chain etc. They are a
first rate product and the plants are modern and clean. They are priced way
before competitive engines. I do not consider an engine done locally
comparable to a jasper engine. They are not remanufactured and believe me
there is a difference

I am still talking to them and will give them a list of what i think we need
such as forged pistons, oil gallery restrictors, stainless steel valves and
all the rest.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Terry & Diane Skinner
Webfooted in Washington
'76 Glenbrook

 

[blank]

>
> I have sat back here on the left coast and tried to keep my
> mouth shut, but I can take only so much.



C'mon Terry - don't hold back. Tell us how you *really* feel. )

Ducking for cover,
Patrick

 

[richard waters]

Terry,
You have a lot of good points. I think what Tom is really after are more
choices of where to take our engines. While you have a local shop that you
could trust, some of us either don't have local shops that we could trust or
don't know about them if they do exist in the area. I'm lucky that within 100
miles of me there are at least 3 places that specialize in GMC's. I don't
however know how good their engine rebuilding programs really are. I think most
of them farm that work out. Who knows how good those subcontractors are.

I'm encouraged that your engine has 130,000 miles as that is where mine
sits. The 455 must truly be a good engine! The only things that I know
of that have been done to mine are miscellaneous things to accessories. Also,
the timing chain was replaced. I'm hoping to go another 20,000 miles at least
before I bit the bullet and get a replacement engine.

Whatever you do, please don't discourage Tom from spending time on our
behalf. If he wants to work with a engine rebuilder to insure that they can
continue to supply 455s, I want him to do just that. I need all the help
I can get!
Richard Waters '76PB (with 130,000 miles), Troy, MI

> I have sat back here on the left coast and tried to keep my mouth shut, but
> I can take only so much. If this guy is having trouble with employees and
> suppliers and is complaining about comebacks I think the smart thing would
> be to run (not walk) out of his shop. If Tom had put half the effort into a
> local engine builder that he has invested into resurrecting this guy he
> would have an engine that he could be proud of. Over on the other side of
> town is an engine builder by the name of Cope Brothers. Their engines hold
> drag and land speed records. You can eat off of any part of his shop. And if
> you walk thru the door with a list of specs you want in your engine he will
> build it for you, AND stand behind it. Surely, with all the stock cars and
> drag racers back east there is a local engine builder that you can trust.
> And you are not going to find them in the yellow pages. And last, may I
> point out that a box stock 455 in my GMC has done 130,000 miles without a
> wrench put to it. What an engine!!! Maybe we should be looking to General
> Motors as a supplier. Just my opinion.........................Terry

 

[zachary zehnacker]

Tom,

Here is a little from the web site.
"Our engines incorporate components that exceed original equipment
specifications. Forged Pistons, True Roller timing gears and chain, Caspro
specification camshaft, aluminum intake manifold, stainless steel intake
and exhaust valves,hardened exhaust valve seats, large capacity oil pump
etc.."

It doesn't say anything about optional costs.

I doubt that the Jasper comes with forged pistons. The Jasper doesn't come
with a True roller timing chain from what I understand of Emery changing
the one it came with to a Cloyes. It doesn't come with an aluminum intake.
Does the Jasper have stainless valves (don't know about this).

The Caspro ones seem to be shipped with carb, water pump, distributor, oil
pan, valve covers, etc. They are ready to drop in and go. The Jasper that
Emery got didn't sound like it was even close to being ready to drop in and
go. Just pricing the water pump, aluminum intake, rebuilding the distrib,
rebuilding the carb, you are already adding quite a bit to the Jasper
motor. Then add the labor that you save by not having to assemble the
motor after you get it with parts off the old motor.

Tom, I just don't understand. It sounds like the Caspro engine has
everything in it that you were going to put into your list to give to
Jasper as to what we "need" for our GMC engines.

Zak

>The caspro unit does not come wiht anyomre than the jasper and is $3000
>more.The aluminum intake is extra on the caspro unit.

 

[thomas g. warner]

you are right zak i looked at my caspro book and they do include intakes and
exhaust manifolds. But so what is wrong with the ones you now have. In
emorys case he is using fuel injection so the parts would have to be
removed. The caspro unit does not have a good warranty in my opinion Read
the fine print. 12 months 24,000 miles. Warranty repairs must be made by
caspro/USA. Positivly no warranty compensation is made for unauthorized or
third party repairs.
\
The jasper has a 18 monts 75,000 mile full warranty good in the USA and canada

>Tom,
>
>Here is a little from the web site.
>"Our engines incorporate components that exceed original equipment
>specifications. Forged Pistons, True Roller timing gears and chain, Caspro
>specification camshaft, aluminum intake manifold, stainless steel intake
>and exhaust valves,hardened exhaust valve seats, large capacity oil pump
>etc.."
>
>It doesn't say anything about optional costs.
>
>I doubt that the Jasper comes with forged pistons. The Jasper doesn't come
>with a True roller timing chain from what I understand of Emery changing
>the one it came with to a Cloyes. It doesn't come with an aluminum intake.
> Does the Jasper have stainless valves (don't know about this).
>
>The Caspro ones seem to be shipped with carb, water pump, distributor, oil
>pan, valve covers, etc. They are ready to drop in and go. The Jasper that
>Emery got didn't sound like it was even close to being ready to drop in and
>go. Just pricing the water pump, aluminum intake, rebuilding the distrib,
>rebuilding the carb, you are already adding quite a bit to the Jasper
>motor. Then add the labor that you save by not having to assemble the
>motor after you get it with parts off the old motor.
>
>Tom, I just don't understand. It sounds like the Caspro engine has
>everything in it that you were going to put into your list to give to
>Jasper as to what we "need" for our GMC engines.
>
>Zak
>

>>The caspro unit does not come wiht anyomre than the jasper and is $3000
>>more.The aluminum intake is extra on the caspro unit.
>
>
>
>

 

[brent covey]

Richard writes;

> knows how good those subcontractors are.
>

I do! I worked for several as a teenager- in a word, most are horrible.

>I'm encouraged that your engine has 130,000 miles as that is where mine
>sits. The 455 must truly be a good engine! The only things that I know
>of that have been done to mine are miscellaneous things to accessories.
Also,
>the timing chain was replaced. I'm hoping to go another 20,000 miles at
least
>before I bit the bullet and get a replacement engine.

There's little in the way of upper limits for engine longevity if you don't
get talked into a rebuild. I current have a 1976 Pontiac 455 stationwagon
here with 522,000 miles. Even I get the feeling it won't last sometimes, but
so far it has, and it works fine. Its been used for towing a 7000 lbs
trailer for about 1/3 of its total mileage, and is the 'everyday' car here.

Repairs to date-

Water pumps (two) GM at ~200,000 mile intervals, three timing chains
(changed at 170,000 ish intervals) cam went flat on one lobe at ~330,000 and
needed replacement and lifters, and I bent a pushrod at 400,000 due to a
slight flaw in the guide plate from the factory that I'd overlooked. The car
psses its current emissions inspections by a healthy margin, starts at -40
and uses about a quart in 1200 miles. Heads have never been off, compression
is 155 psi +/- 6.

This car has always been operated on unleaded regular, and has 6000 mile oil
chages with 5W-30. No additives or special products were ever used, although
it does have a factory installed engine oil cooler which has no doubt
helped.

They'll go a long ways occsionally.

>Whatever you do, please don't discourage Tom from spending time on our
>behalf. If he wants to work with a engine rebuilder to insure that they
can
>continue to supply 455s, I want him to do just that. I need all the help.

My advice is don't get panicked- 455 engine parts will always be availible,
and the real key is finding someone to put it together. Good machine work is
extraordinarily difficult to come by, here in the Vancouver area, my job
takes me thru most machine shops in the metro area, and I very seldom see
work I'd be happy with. Most places are extremely poor.

Another thing to remember is many modifications are possible, but have
different trade offs inherent for people running six ton motorhomes 2000
miles at a time over the mountains and not a one ton car down a track 1/4
mile at a time. Items like forged pistons and aluminum manifolds may not be
the best thing for heavy vehicles used like ours are. There are tradeoffs
every time you change something, and the should be carefully considered
before you make them. As an example, forged pistons- they're quite a bit
stronger under conditions of real abuse like knocking or extremely high
temperatures, but have a drawback in that expansion cannot be closelly
controlled like a thermal strut cast piston (OEM). This means even in light
duty service, they must have significantly more clearance to the bores than
stock and this means they will never quite have the lifespan before they go
out of spec that the OEM ones did. Under similar treatment in a GMC you
could reasonably expect 1/2 the mileage on forged pistons as cast thermal
strut ones before similar oil consumption problems occured. On the other
hand, forged pistons might save you a catastrophic failure in a turbocharged
car that makes this tradeoff worthwhile. Many parts are like this.

When in doubt, stay close to stock I'd say. And don't 'give up' on an older
high mileage engine as long as it works well. There's no reason they'll quit
if you take care of them and service them as if they're new.

Good Luck!

Brent

 

[thomas g. warner]

there is no lack of top rebuilders here and in fact there are two that build
NASCAR engines with all the goodies
but with due respect they are all local shops.

If i were to only drive locally that would be fine. But break down 1000
miles from home and the whole picture changes.
I want a remanufacturer with a national presence and large enough ot stand
behind their products. jasper is the only one I know besides Mondello and
Caspro. And I am not sure about caspro, who makes their engines and what the
specs are.
Local rebuilders and i want to stress that they are all rebuilders not
remanufacturers lack:

1. They have no surplus 455 cores

2. It would take them time to get parts if they did have a core. No shop
that size stocks parts other than fast moving inventory. Been there checked
on that long ago.

3. Most shops have no expertise on rebuilding the 455. Don't believe it go
to your local shop and ask them for a set of valve seats for olds heads.
Want to bet they will be chevy seats and 3/8" deep. Use them and you can
lose a head.

No I want a big remanufacturer and jasper fills the bill. Ask caspro or
Mondello to offer an engine like jasper makes for the price they charge and
watch them run for cover.

>I have sat back here on the left coast and tried to keep my mouth shut, but
>I can take only so much. If this guy is having trouble with employees and
>suppliers and is complaining about comebacks I think the smart thing would
>be to run (not walk) out of his shop. If Tom had put half the effort into a
>local engine builder that he has invested into resurrecting this guy he
>would have an engine that he could be proud of. Over on the other side of
>town is an engine builder by the name of Cope Brothers. Their engines hold
>drag and land speed records. You can eat off of any part of his shop. And if
>you walk thru the door with a list of specs you want in your engine he will
>build it for you, AND stand behind it. Surely, with all the stock cars and
>drag racers back east there is a local engine builder that you can trust.
>And you are not going to find them in the yellow pages. And last, may I
>point out that a box stock 455 in my GMC has done 130,000 miles without a
>wrench put to it. What an engine!!! Maybe we should be looking to General
>Motors as a supplier. Just my opinion.........................Terry
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
>.
>Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:54:47 -0400 (EDT)
>From: warner
>Subject: Re: GMC: Jasper Engines
>
>Emory can answer for himself but all of the jasper engines and transmissions
>that I have seen are very nicely painted and finished. The long block is
>complete except for add ons like intake manifold, exhaustr manifold and
>atlernator. They come wiht an oil pan and timeing chain etc. They are a
>first rate product and the plants are modern and clean. They are priced way
>before competitive engines. I do not consider an engine done locally
>comparable to a jasper engine. They are not remanufactured and believe me
>there is a difference
>
>I am still talking to them and will give them a list of what i think we need
>such as forged pistons, oil gallery restrictors, stainless steel valves and
>all the rest.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Terry & Diane Skinner
>Webfooted in Washington
>'76 Glenbrook
>
>
>

 

[heinz wittenbecher]

> I have sat back here on the left coast and tried to keep my mouth shut,
but
> I can take only so much. If this guy is having trouble with employees and
> suppliers and is complaining about comebacks I think the smart thing would
> be to run (not walk) out of his shop.

Thanks, Terry.

I was wondering the same thing but have been biting my tongue and it wasn't
bleeding yet
Must be the something about the North-West [g].
Thank you for your comments.

To the uninitiated it seems that Jasper was the only supplier, which of
course is not true and that's not even counting all the "local" guys.

I think the big problem/fear is that of needing an engine far away from home
and the number of engine suppliers that ship are few indeed. I for one would
not consider a Jasper engine, primarily for the reason you have stated and
their action of "dis-continuance" as I would not trust them to give it their
all and also not to decide to discontinue again 3 months later (just after I
bought one [ if I was so inclined ]).

Since it's not a guarantee to have "no problems" even with a new engine I'm
leaning more and more to try and find a way of getting the Lady to the
engine rather than engine to the Lady, or getting the Lady home and then
worry about it. Of course finding that destination and the transportation
medium is somewhat difficult for us Left Coasters... really do feel left
behind some when considering other parts of the country.

FWIW, my last engine was done at Eric's RV in Sequim, WA and they sent the
engine to a local (Seattle) engine shop for overhaul to their specs. The
biggest downside to that scenario was the downtime and the somewhat
uncertainty as to what went into the rebuild. Had it been further away from
home I would have really been up the proverbial creek. However, that was
pre-GMCnet

Bottomline for me... I will not be planning for a Jasper engine in my
future, especially as there are alternatives. Alternatives that appear more
serious and much more committed to the GMC community itself, as in
Patterson, Winterfeldt, Caspro, etc. And of course the "local" if fortunate
enough to be home at the time of demise. [ The order given does not mean
it's my order of preference, just the way the fingers typed ].

Perhaps another GMC cottage industry can come out of all this... Engine
delivered to your doorstep (oops... driveway) and installed right then and
there by the "Cottage Business". Modify that "back window" and you'd have
your lab on wheels (GMC wheels even .

Enough rambling from the Left Side.

Heinz
'76 Transmode with 130+ on that rebuild.

 

[richard waters]

Tom,
That's an excellent point. One that I have not really considered. It's
the breakdowns far from home that have me worried.
Richard Waters '76 PB, Troy, MI

> If i were to only drive locally that would be fine. But break down 1000
> miles from home and the whole picture changes.
> I want a remanufacturer with a national presence and large enough ot stand
> behind their products. jasper is the only one I know besides Mondello and
> Caspro. And I am not sure about caspro, who makes their engines and what the
> specs are.

 

[hugh fellows]

I now have 160 K miles on my 455 and it runs flawlessly. However I know
it will not last forever and I certainly would consider a "Jasper engine
" if I hear good feedback on the net. If a few dollars more is
competitive and their product is quality then I hope they will raise
the price to make things profitable for them instead of discontinuing
the 455 rebuild. This is certainly favorable for us . You know ,
somewhere in this GMC faithful crowd I bet there might be a good engine
builder looking for a profitable business. This might be an
opportunity.

Hugh Fellows
77 Eleganza