=?iso-8859-1?Q?[GMCnet]_Re:_Guess_what=E2=80=99s_coming_to_Chez_Denney?=

Rdenney

Rdenney

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
6,270
95
48
NoVA
I should have added that the elevations came from the Amish company
building the structure. The site is sloped, and the rear elevation shed
roof covers a 10x60 pad that is 42” below the level of the interior floor.
That is what makes the “loading dock” work in the Ken style. I have a
welding friend who I will get to make the ramps.

6” dead level slab under that bay, in case I ever want to install a lift.

Rick “starting to think about wiring” Denney

> Or, how I’ve been spending my Covid home time.
>
> Plan:
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p68107-new-shop.html
>
> Rear:
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p68105-new-shop.html
>
> Front:
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p68106-new-shop.html
>
> No more losing screws in the gravel driveway.
>
> Pre-construction meeting tomorrow. Permit issued on Friday.
>
> You don’t even want to know how much this costs in Northern Virginia.
>
> Radiant heat in the floor, 2” of sprayed-on closed cell foam insulation.
>
> “Loading Dock” inspired by Ken H.
>
> Rick “ready to get back in circulation” Denney
>
> --
> '73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
> Northern Virginia
> Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
>
--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
 
Hey, Rick,

Wonderful!!! I'm blue with envy -- even 'tho' I'd no longer use it much.
:-)

Be sure to have "sockets" set in the floor of the "loading dock" for the
ramp support posts. Mine are, IIRC, 4" ID and 18" deep with 1-1/2" x 18"
angle iron "feet" welded across the bottom. 24" square concrete around
each of those two below the slab. Perhaps over-designed, but I don't worry
at all about the support for the front of the GMC -- I probably put the
back end of the big diesel pusher on there if I stll had it.

By the way, I tried to call you a couple of times lately with no answer.
I'll keep trying. I'm curious how the carpenter bee traps are working out
... just had to rehang mine.

Ken H.

> I should have added that the elevations came from the Amish company
> building the structure. The site is sloped, and the rear elevation shed
> roof covers a 10x60 pad that is 42” below the level of the interior floor.
> That is what makes the “loading dock” work in the Ken style. I have a
> welding friend who I will get to make the ramps.
>
> 6” dead level slab under that bay, in case I ever want to install a lift.
>
> Rick “starting to think about wiring” Denney
>
> On Mon, Mar 22, 2021 at 11:04 PM Richard Denney

>
> > Or, how I’ve been spending my Covid home time.
> >
> > Plan:
> >
> > http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p68107-new-shop.html
> >
> > Rear:
> >
> > http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p68105-new-shop.html
> >
> > Front:
> >
> > http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p68106-new-shop.html
> >
> > No more losing screws in the gravel driveway.
> >
> > Pre-construction meeting tomorrow. Permit issued on Friday.
> >
> > You don’t even want to know how much this costs in Northern Virginia.
> >
> > Radiant heat in the floor, 2” of sprayed-on closed cell foam insulation.
> >
> > “Loading Dock” inspired by Ken H.
> >
> > Rick “ready to get back in circulation” Denney
> >
> > --
> > '73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
> > Northern Virginia
> > Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
> >
> --
> '73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
> Northern Virginia
> Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
 
Ken, do you have dimensions from the “dock” edge to the front supports?
I’ll probably use square tubing.

I may have to retrofit that part. Concrete contractor will start probably
week after next, but I have to run to Texas for a few weeks. My father
passed away in early January and we need to do the next round of stuff.

I’ll talk with the concrete guy this afternoon. Good guy.

I’m hammered with online stuff all day today but evenings are free. Seven
oh three six too 3 five six 6 ate.

Rick “endless online meetings these days” Denney

On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 6:05 AM Ken Henderson
wrote:

> Hey, Rick,
>
> Wonderful!!! I'm blue with envy -- even 'tho' I'd no longer use it much.
> :-)
>
> Be sure to have "sockets" set in the floor of the "loading dock" for the
> ramp support posts. Mine are, IIRC, 4" ID and 18" deep with 1-1/2" x 18"
> angle iron "feet" welded across the bottom. 24" square concrete around
> each of those two below the slab. Perhaps over-designed, but I don't worry
> at all about the support for the front of the GMC -- I probably put the
> back end of the big diesel pusher on there if I stll had it.
>
> By the way, I tried to call you a couple of times lately with no answer.
> I'll keep trying. I'm curious how the carpenter bee traps are working out
> ... just had to rehang mine.
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 22, 2021 at 11:11 PM Richard Denney

>
> > I should have added that the elevations came from the Amish company
> > building the structure. The site is sloped, and the rear elevation shed
> > roof covers a 10x60 pad that is 42” below the level of the interior
> floor.
> > That is what makes the “loading dock” work in the Ken style. I have a
> > welding friend who I will get to make the ramps.
> >
> > 6” dead level slab under that bay, in case I ever want to install a lift.
> >
> > Rick “starting to think about wiring” Denney
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 22, 2021 at 11:04 PM Richard Denney

> >
> > > Or, how I’ve been spending my Covid home time.
> > >
> > > Plan:
> > >
> > > http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p68107-new-shop.html
> > >
> > > Rear:
> > >
> > > http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p68105-new-shop.html
> > >
> > > Front:
> > >
> > > http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p68106-new-shop.html
> > >
> > > No more losing screws in the gravel driveway.
> > >
> > > Pre-construction meeting tomorrow. Permit issued on Friday.
> > >
> > > You don’t even want to know how much this costs in Northern Virginia.
> > >
> > > Radiant heat in the floor, 2” of sprayed-on closed cell foam
> insulation.
> > >
> > > “Loading Dock” inspired by Ken H.
> > >
> > > Rick “ready to get back in circulation” Denney
> > >
> > > --
> > > '73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
> > > Northern Virginia
> > > Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
> > >
> > --
> > '73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
> > Northern Virginia
> > Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
 
Future work rallies will be held at Chez Denney

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
 
Rick,
Congratulations on your shop build getting started. You have put some good thought into what you want with the KenHen pit etc.

For my heat, I put in-floor heating plus a gas space heater. This allows me to have a warm floor (about 18-20C) which gives background heat to keep
the shop at about 10C in the dead of winter. When I want spend a winter day in the shop (which has been every day this year) I can turn up the space
heater and bring the shop up to 18-20C in less than 20 minutes. By setting the space heater to ~6C, it provides a backup for the in-floor heat.

I had fluorescent lighting originally installed, but have added LED here and there. The LED are so much nicer and brighter, they make the fluorescent
look dim. I'll be converting the fluorescent fixtures to LED soon. Don't forget a couple outside RV plug-ins for visitors!

Take lots of construction pictures so you can see where things are behind the walls in the future! And of course post some for the rest of us!

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6483-the-murray-gets-a-home.html

--
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
 
> Future work rallies will be held at Chez Denney
>
> --johnny

... and everyone will be parked inside! 😉

Looks good, Rick!

Richard
--
'77 Birchaven TZE...777;
'76 Palm Beach with 18,477 verified miles;
‘76 Edgemonte
 
Rick,

I won't say I'm not somewhat jealous, I do have a heatable barn that I can get the coach into. It is nothing like that.

In the past, I did build a pole barn shop and severely modify a large garage as a workspace, I will make a few very important suggestions that are
cheap at this point but will save you endless grief down the road.

Plan underground services to the structure now. Have the concrete guy put at least two 4" pipes up through the slab inside the "projected" wall and
with the elbows aimed at the dwelling. These are for: the electric service to the shop, Cat6 for the WAP in there, city water, compressed air back
to the dwelling, a phone line (maybe not important any more), RG6 for the TV in the shop.

Run at least 100A service to the shop if the dwelling service will accommodate it, 200 would be better. Put the breaker panel for it out there.
Wire the lights on two circuits on opposite sides of the phase. (This makes it much tougher to put out all the lights. This is a BTDT.) Buy a box
with space for more circuits than you can possibly imagine ever wanting.

You can open the big door with a normal plain-jane door operator, but you will have to look up the extension kit.

If I think of anything else, I will try to remember to get it to you.

I lost my father over thirty years ago and I still miss him. I hope the cleanup is not too tough.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
> Or, how I’ve been spending my Covid home time.
>
> Plan:
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p68107-new-shop.html
>
> Rear:
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p68105-new-shop.html
>
> Front:
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p68106-new-shop.html
>
> No more losing screws in the gravel driveway.
>
> Pre-construction meeting tomorrow. Permit issued on Friday.
>
> You don’t even want to know how much this costs in Northern Virginia.
>
> Radiant heat in the floor, 2” of sprayed-on closed cell foam insulation.
>
> “Loading Dock” inspired by Ken H.
>
> Rick “ready to get back in circulation” Denney

I spent my COVID time in a similar fashion but just a bit ahead of your schedule. This is my dream barn. I had an Amish crew doing the work but I was
able to do a lot of the work myself including excavation, plumbing, electrical, and the inside break-room construction. I did have the exterior walls
sprayed with 2" closed-cell foam and plan on filling the remaining cavities with fiberglass blow-in insulation for additional R-value. And the last
major finish-up project is to "finish" the shop floor.

I saw KenH's setup for working under the coach but I didn't have the terrain for that approach so I went with a 4-post lift. Greatest thing I ever did
- no more crawling around on the floor underneath with little room to do what needs doing.

Here are some pics of my "COVID project". Be happy to share any experiences if you have questions.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/qhUtmMLxgz6Twyy28

--
Randy & Margie
'77 Eleganza II '403'
Battlefield, MO
 
Nice!
--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
 
Be sure to label all those valves for your radiant heating system. If not for yourself, then for your family. Us techies forget that not everyone has a technical bent. Labelling has to be explained enough that a 10 - 12 year old can adjust things.

>
>

> > Or, how I’ve been spending my Covid home time.
> >
> > Plan:
> >
> > http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p68107-new-shop.html
> >
> > Rear:
> >
> > http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p68105-new-shop.html
> >
> > Front:
> >
> > http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p68106-new-shop.html
> >
> > No more losing screws in the gravel driveway.
> >
> > Pre-construction meeting tomorrow. Permit issued on Friday.
> >
> > You don’t even want to know how much this costs in Northern Virginia.
> >
> > Radiant heat in the floor, 2” of sprayed-on closed cell foam insulation.
> >
> > “Loading Dock” inspired by Ken H.
> >
> > Rick “ready to get back in circulation” Denney
>
> I spent my COVID time in a similar fashion but just a bit ahead of your schedule. This is my dream barn. I had an Amish crew doing the work but I was
> able to do a lot of the work myself including excavation, plumbing, electrical, and the inside break-room construction. I did have the exterior walls
> sprayed with 2" closed-cell foam and plan on filling the remaining cavities with fiberglass blow-in insulation for additional R-value. And the last
> major finish-up project is to "finish" the shop floor.
>
> I saw KenH's setup for working under the coach but I didn't have the terrain for that approach so I went with a 4-post lift. Greatest thing I ever did
> - no more crawling around on the floor underneath with little room to do what needs doing.
>
> Here are some pics of my "COVID project". Be happy to share any experiences if you have questions.
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/qhUtmMLxgz6Twyy28
>
> --
> Randy & Margie
> '77 Eleganza II '403'
> Battlefield, MO
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
 
Randy, that's awesome. You have parking for two coaches--I didn't want to
make that a possibility so I used shorter doors for the rest of it.

I'm not doing the excavation--I just don't have time. I will put down the
radiant heat Pex, and I will do the electrical work. I'm not closing the
door to a lift, but I also see it as reducing flexibility.

I did not mention before--the design uses attic-box roof trusses that will
provide an 8-foot ceiling room that is 16x60 feet. Eventually, I'll enclose
that a bit more deliberately and air-condition it. Yes, stairs...but better
that than wasting that space. I'll probably rig up a cargo lift using a
power winch.

14-foot ceiling in the main space.

Rick "will call if I run into issues" Denney

I spent my COVID time in a similar fashion but just a bit ahead of your
> schedule. This is my dream barn. I had an Amish crew doing the work but I
> was
> able to do a lot of the work myself including excavation, plumbing,
> electrical, and the inside break-room construction. I did have the exterior
> walls
> sprayed with 2" closed-cell foam and plan on filling the remaining
> cavities with fiberglass blow-in insulation for additional R-value. And the
> last
> major finish-up project is to "finish" the shop floor.
>
> I saw KenH's setup for working under the coach but I didn't have the
> terrain for that approach so I went with a 4-post lift. Greatest thing I
> ever did
> - no more crawling around on the floor underneath with little room to do
> what needs doing.
>
> Here are some pics of my "COVID project". Be happy to share any
> experiences if you have questions.
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/qhUtmMLxgz6Twyy28
>
> --
> Randy & Margie
> '77 Eleganza II '403'
> Battlefield, MO
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>

--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
 
I am envious as well. My new garage/shop pales in comparison to the ones just mentioned.

I am still finishing my 28x32 GMC garage. That was the maximum I could do on my 1 1/2 acre lot due to terrain, easements and zoning. I still had to
get a zoning variance to be able to build it.

It is stick build, since the neighbors or city would not allow a pole barn. I built it with 10' side walls, scissor trusses that provide a 12 foot
ceiling over the coach. 10' x 10' insulated garage door with opener, 3 large double hung windows and 2 skylights plus one "man Door". I installed
10" fiberglass insulation in the ceiling and 4" in the walls behind fire code drywall.

It has radiant tubing in the floor that is currently not hooked up to a heat source. I do have a 80,000 BTU forced air furnace hung from the
ceiling. I have a wall air conditioner/heat pump that so far does the trick in the summer. 100 amp service with many 120 and 240 volt outlets as well
as 30 and 50 amp for the coach. Also, I installed plumbing for water and sewer with a dump station inside and outside. I have 2 2" conduits that
run from the shop to the attic in my house for the Ethernet(4 POE security cameras, computers, streaming TV and WIFI access point}and coax for
cable/antenna TV. I hung 14 4FT LED Utility Shop Light from the ceiling. Those are really bright.

This past winter I did not winterize the coach for the first time in 22 years. That was a nice plus. I keep the heat set to 42F when I am not out
there working. When I want to work, I use my PC or iPhone to set the temp to 65 via Nest thermostat. In the winter it only takes 20 minutes or so
before it becomes comfortable enough to work with short sleeves.

Its so nice to be working on a GMC project and not have to worry about the weather (will it or won't it rain) and play beat the clock putting my tools
away if it does start to rain.
--
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com


Coop Roller Cam 455, Howell TBI + EBL, 3.42 FD, Quadra Bag, Macerator, Lenzi stuff, Manny Tranny etc.
 
Oooh--just the thing I usually forget to do. Good advice..

Rick "nine branches in the radiant heat systems" Denney

On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 12:23 PM RICHARD/MARLI SHOOP
wrote:

> Be sure to label all those valves for your radiant heating system. If not
> for yourself, then for your family. Us techies forget that not everyone has
> a technical bent. Labelling has to be explained enough that a 10 - 12 year
> old can adjust things.
>
>
>

--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
 
Hi Rick, I’ll pass along what Blaine Merrel told me. “ it ain’t big enough!”
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5110-detached-garage.html

> I am envious as well. My new garage/shop pales in comparison to the ones just mentioned.
>
> I am still finishing my 28x32 GMC garage. That was the maximum I could do on my 1 1/2 acre lot due to terrain, easements and zoning. I still had
> to get a zoning variance to be able to build it.
>
> It is stick build, since the neighbors or city would not allow a pole barn. I built it with 10' side walls, scissor trusses that provide a 12
> foot ceiling over the coach. 10' x 10' insulated garage door with opener, 3 large double hung windows and 2 skylights plus one "man Door". I
> installed 10" fiberglass insulation in the ceiling and 4" in the walls behind fire code drywall.
>
> It has radiant tubing in the floor that is currently not hooked up to a heat source. I do have a 80,000 BTU forced air furnace hung from the
> ceiling. I have a wall air conditioner/heat pump that so far does the trick in the summer. 100 amp service with many 120 and 240 volt outlets as
> well as 30 and 50 amp for the coach. Also, I installed plumbing for water and sewer with a dump station inside and outside. I have 2 2" conduits
> that run from the shop to the attic in my house for the Ethernet(4 POE security cameras, computers, streaming TV and WIFI access point}and coax for
> cable/antenna TV. I hung 14 4FT LED Utility Shop Light from the ceiling. Those are really bright.
>
> This past winter I did not winterize the coach for the first time in 22 years. That was a nice plus. I keep the heat set to 42F when I am not out
> there working. When I want to work, I use my PC or iPhone to set the temp to 65 via Nest thermostat. In the winter it only takes 20 minutes or so
> before it becomes comfortable enough to work with short sleeves.
>
> Its so nice to be working on a GMC project and not have to worry about the weather (will it or won't it rain) and play beat the clock putting my
> tools away if it does start to rain.

--
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
 
Matt, I have a power-company hub transformer in my yard, 35 feet from the
corner of this barn. I will be paying an electrician just enough to install
a 300-amp panel and add a separately metered service from the power
company. I'll run all the branches myself. I have no interior finish on the
walls, so I can attach conduit runs wherever I want them. I'll be able to
go through walls as needed, too. I'm planning two 30-amp RV ports outside,
one inside, plus another two for bigger tools, and yet another one for a
compressor. Then, maybe five 20-amp branches, one for the attic, a 240V
20-amp branch for the attic, and lighting (I plan to use large LED bay
lights, maybe 8 of them). The heading system requires two 60's and a 30. I
just don't see how less than 300 amps could make me happy :)

But I think I can go through the walls for all that. The power company will
want the meter can on the outside in any case, and then punch through the
wall to an interior panel.

Rick "those LED bay lights are BRIGHT" Denney

> Rick,
>
> I won't say I'm not somewhat jealous, I do have a heatable barn that I can
> get the coach into. It is nothing like that.
>
> In the past, I did build a pole barn shop and severely modify a large
> garage as a workspace, I will make a few very important suggestions that are
> cheap at this point but will save you endless grief down the road.
>
> Plan underground services to the structure now. Have the concrete guy put
> at least two 4" pipes up through the slab inside the "projected" wall and
> with the elbows aimed at the dwelling. These are for: the electric
> service to the shop, Cat6 for the WAP in there, city water, compressed air
> back
> to the dwelling, a phone line (maybe not important any more), RG6 for the
> TV in the shop.
>
> Run at least 100A service to the shop if the dwelling service will
> accommodate it, 200 would be better. Put the breaker panel for it out
> there.
> Wire the lights on two circuits on opposite sides of the phase. (This
> makes it much tougher to put out all the lights. This is a BTDT.) Buy a box
> with space for more circuits than you can possibly imagine ever wanting.
>
> You can open the big door with a normal plain-jane door operator, but you
> will have to look up the extension kit.
>
> If I think of anything else, I will try to remember to get it to you.
>
> I lost my father over thirty years ago and I still miss him. I hope the
> cleanup is not too tough.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL,
> GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum
> Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>

--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
 
Chuck--it will never be big enough. That's a given. My first requirement
was being able to perform test drives in the motorhome without having to
use reverse gear. But even six acres wasn't enough for that one.

But--4999 square feet or less of disturbed soil does not require a grading
permit or solid and erosion control plan.

And maximum height above grade of 35 feet--I'm right at that limit given
the extra 3.5 feet of exposed foundation wall on the back.

And $80 a square foot does give one pause.

The primary use for this structure will be agricultural. We will be keeping
bees and producing honey. We will also be developing a garden, and will use
the GMC as for garden sales in the local farmer's market. Yup.
(Agricultural buildings in Virginia are exempt from building codes.)

Rick "Green Acres" Denney

On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 2:54 PM Charles Boyd
wrote:

> Hi Rick, I’ll pass along what Blaine Merrel told me. “ it ain’t big
> enough!”
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5110-detached-garage.html
>
>
>
>

> > I am envious as well. My new garage/shop pales in comparison to the
> ones just mentioned.
> >
> > I am still finishing my 28x32 GMC garage. That was the maximum I could
> do on my 1 1/2 acre lot due to terrain, easements and zoning. I still had
> > to get a zoning variance to be able to build it.
> >
> > It is stick build, since the neighbors or city would not allow a pole
> barn. I built it with 10' side walls, scissor trusses that provide a 12
> > foot ceiling over the coach. 10' x 10' insulated garage door with
> opener, 3 large double hung windows and 2 skylights plus one "man Door". I
> > installed 10" fiberglass insulation in the ceiling and 4" in the walls
> behind fire code drywall.
> >
> > It has radiant tubing in the floor that is currently not hooked up to a
> heat source. I do have a 80,000 BTU forced air furnace hung from the
> > ceiling. I have a wall air conditioner/heat pump that so far does the
> trick in the summer. 100 amp service with many 120 and 240 volt outlets as
> > well as 30 and 50 amp for the coach. Also, I installed plumbing for
> water and sewer with a dump station inside and outside. I have 2 2"
> conduits
> > that run from the shop to the attic in my house for the Ethernet(4 POE
> security cameras, computers, streaming TV and WIFI access point}and coax for
> > cable/antenna TV. I hung 14 4FT LED Utility Shop Light from the
> ceiling. Those are really bright.
> >
> > This past winter I did not winterize the coach for the first time in 22
> years. That was a nice plus. I keep the heat set to 42F when I am not out
> > there working. When I want to work, I use my PC or iPhone to set the
> temp to 65 via Nest thermostat. In the winter it only takes 20 minutes or so
> > before it becomes comfortable enough to work with short sleeves.
> >
> > Its so nice to be working on a GMC project and not have to worry about
> the weather (will it or won't it rain) and play beat the clock putting my
> > tools away if it does start to rain.
>
> --
> C. Boyd
> 76 Crestmont
> East Tennessee
> _______________________________________________
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--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
 
You guys need to seriously consider your heating options before you start construction. We have a great comparison of an overhead furnace, in the
concrete floor radiant, and overhead radiant heat. All in the same well insulated and sealed 54'x54'x14' building.

In the first building after the extremely high gas bills over a few years with poor heat distribution the furnace was scrapped and we installed
overhead radiant heat. In a 14'x54'x14' addition we added we installed in the floor hot water radiant heat but the owner did not listen to me and
follow proper concrete floor to ground insulation. Can't change it now as it is all underground and the concrete floor.

In am adjacent 54'x54'x20' similarly insulated building we installed properly insulated concrete slab in floor radiant heat. It's cost to operate is
siumilar to the high miunted radiant heat system installed next door.

Conlusions:

All of this is natural gas powered and expect the rates to go up with the Fed govt's current attitude on any kind of energy usage.

1. Forget the furnace. It's monthly cost is triple the other solutions. From overhead it distributes the heat poorly to where you need it.

2. In floor radiant works very well with some drawbacks.
2a. It is extremely expensive to install and must be done at building construction time. It takes a long time to bring a concrete slab up to desired
temperature so If you want to run a timer thermostat do no expect quick changes in temperature.
2b. The system looses a lot of heat into the ground if the below floor and vertical side insulation is not done properly.

3. Over head radiant heating. It heats objects, not air, so loss to outside air is greatly reduced compared to other system. Can be retrofitted
later. Usage costs are similar to a properly insulated in floor system. Can be idled to a lower temp to save energy and recovers quickly when
needed.

--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
Wow. Ag is exempt from building codes.. I guess I shoulda checked on that since I am zoned ag.. but I guess I shoulda checked if there was a
difference in barn codes and house codes too. I do have a certificate of occupancy and 6030 sq ft of living space added to my property taxes.. I do
look good on paper.

> Chuck--it will never be big enough. That's a given. My first requirement
> was being able to perform test drives in the motorhome without having to
> use reverse gear. But even six acres wasn't enough for that one.
>
> But--4999 square feet or less of disturbed soil does not require a grading
> permit or solid and erosion control plan.
>
> And maximum height above grade of 35 feet--I'm right at that limit given
> the extra 3.5 feet of exposed foundation wall on the back.
>
> And $80 a square foot does give one pause.
>
> The primary use for this structure will be agricultural. We will be keeping
> bees and producing honey. We will also be developing a garden, and will use
> the GMC as for garden sales in the local farmer's market. Yup.
> (Agricultural buildings in Virginia are exempt from building codes.)
>
> Rick "Green Acres" Denney
>
> On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 2:54 PM Charles Boyd

>
> > Hi Rick, I’ll pass along what Blaine Merrel told me. “ it ain’t big
> > enough!”
> > http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5110-detached-garage.html
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >> I am envious as well. My new garage/shop pales in comparison to the
> > ones just mentioned.
> >>
> >> I am still finishing my 28x32 GMC garage. That was the maximum I could
> > do on my 1 1/2 acre lot due to terrain, easements and zoning. I still had
> >> to get a zoning variance to be able to build it.
> >>
> >> It is stick build, since the neighbors or city would not allow a pole
> > barn. I built it with 10' side walls, scissor trusses that provide a 12
> >> foot ceiling over the coach. 10' x 10' insulated garage door with
> > opener, 3 large double hung windows and 2 skylights plus one "man Door". I
> >> installed 10" fiberglass insulation in the ceiling and 4" in the walls
> > behind fire code drywall.
> >>
> >> It has radiant tubing in the floor that is currently not hooked up to a
> > heat source. I do have a 80,000 BTU forced air furnace hung from the
> >> ceiling. I have a wall air conditioner/heat pump that so far does the
> > trick in the summer. 100 amp service with many 120 and 240 volt outlets as
> >> well as 30 and 50 amp for the coach. Also, I installed plumbing for
> > water and sewer with a dump station inside and outside. I have 2 2"
> > conduits
> >> that run from the shop to the attic in my house for the Ethernet(4 POE
> > security cameras, computers, streaming TV and WIFI access point}and coax for
> >> cable/antenna TV. I hung 14 4FT LED Utility Shop Light from the
> > ceiling. Those are really bright.
> >>
> >> This past winter I did not winterize the coach for the first time in 22
> > years. That was a nice plus. I keep the heat set to 42F when I am not out
> >> there working. When I want to work, I use my PC or iPhone to set the
> > temp to 65 via Nest thermostat. In the winter it only takes 20 minutes or so
> >> before it becomes comfortable enough to work with short sleeves.
> >>
> >> Its so nice to be working on a GMC project and not have to worry about
> > the weather (will it or won't it rain) and play beat the clock putting my
> >> tools away if it does start to rain.
> >
> > --
> > C. Boyd
> > 76 Crestmont
> > East Tennessee
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >
>
>
> --
> '73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
> Northern Virginia
> Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:

--
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
 
Ahh... Nothing better than a Garage-Mahal...

Lots of good suggestions above, but I will throw in a couple more from having built 2 shops over the years:

If you are planning on a lift, one thing I've always wanted is in floor lighting...
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5588882&postcount=742

I ran Pex all over the shop for air lines... Been 12 years, and not a single problem, and easy to reconfigure if need be...

Also, when we did our current shop, the HOA made us "Do something interesting" with the roofline. What we settled on, was what I believe is called a
split gable roof:
https://www.summergardenbuildings.co.uk/images/products/L/LOG-CABIN-11105445/p1m_LOG-CABIN-11105445.jpg

The upper windows let in a ton of light, without taking up floor/wall space for tools and shelves and stuff. They are less likely to leak than a
skylight, and if you install windows that can open, they do a nice job of evacuating heat from the shop. Was pissed at the HOA at first for the
additional cost, but I'm thankful now as I love what those windows do.
--
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
 
> Matt, I have a power-company hub transformer in my yard, 35 feet from the
> corner of this barn. I will be paying an electrician just enough to install
> a 300-amp panel and add a separately metered service from the power
> company. I'll run all the branches myself. I have no interior finish on the
> walls, so I can attach conduit runs wherever I want them. I'll be able to
> go through walls as needed, too. I'm planning two 30-amp RV ports outside,
> one inside, plus another two for bigger tools, and yet another one for a
> compressor. Then, maybe five 20-amp branches, one for the attic, a 240V
> 20-amp branch for the attic, and lighting (I plan to use large LED bay
> lights, maybe 8 of them). The heading system requires two 60's and a 30. I
> just don't see how less than 300 amps could make me happy :)
>
> But I think I can go through the walls for all that. The power company will
> want the meter can on the outside in any case, and then punch through the
> wall to an interior panel.
>
> Rick "those LED bay lights are BRIGHT" Denney

Rick,

I used 3 of these 200W Bay Lights in the shop area (roughly 1300 sq ft) where I wanted more light. Still have to use some task lighting under the
coach because of shadows. I used 2 of the larger 250W lights in the Cold Storage (48 x 48) which gives plenty of light in there - I'm not doing any
long term work in that area.

I've had them in about 6 months and they work great! I have switches at every walk-thru door. Lots of wire but worth doing in my opinion.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07V9HC5SD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I was curious about how you were going to heat water. Based on your last post, sounds like you may be using an electric boiler? I'm using a hot
water heater and it has been working great - got me through the polar vortex with temps below freezing for a week and well below zero during 2 or 3
nights. At that time, I was seeing about keeping the rooms at 70 degrees with just the floor and it maintained that temp while only cycling 2 or 3
times during the real cold part. I have decided to have the floor run at about 60 degrees which is OK for working in the shop and use the mini-splits
to raise the temps in the break room - unfortunately, I probably will spend most of my time there hoping the work gets done. Next winter I will
experiment with this more - maybe even keeping the floor down at 50 degrees and see how the mini-splits do pulling up the heat. I really only need the
higher heat when I'm out there in the barn and can't see paying for the heat other times. I have looked into air-to-water heat pumps to heat the
water which is an excellent way to go. Unfortunately, the US is way behind Asia and Europe with this technology and use so prices are fairly steep.
I got my mini-splits at Menards and installed them myself so that did not cost much and will provide cooling in the summer.

Better than that would be geo-thermal with a heat pump to exchange heat into the water. Probably would be the most efficient approach. I have a
geo-thermal system at my current home with heat and air through regular air ducts. Quite efficient but the barn, heating about the same square
footage and more volume because of the high ceilings cost slightly less than my house.

Enough rambling!
--
Randy & Margie
'77 Eleganza II '403'
Battlefield, MO
 
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