Inverter Transfer

steve douglas

New member
Jan 2, 2000
15
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0
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:04:43 -0500
From: "Robert Neeb"
Subject: Re: GMC: Installing StatPower TrueCharge40

You're struggling with a statpower and i'm frustrated with the inverter.
came with coach and Buskirk (Max) and I cannot get shore power to
operate.
Only way to power coach is through battery. There should be a switch
that
transfers power when using shore power. Getting real close to yanking
the
whole thing out and going to a converter.

Robert, BR Whosale has transfer switches for that will fit your needs.
The TS-50 will transfer between inverter and shorepower @50 AMPS for
$133.
They can be reached at 800-900-2468 or 800-848-0934 or
www.brwholesale.com. They sell cahrgers, converters, Onan boards,
Inverters ect.

Steve Douglas
74 Eleganza SE
 
I think I've gone over the edge. Checked out the coach for a transfer
switch, (there has to have been one), not one to be found. Previous owner I
am told had a solar panel connected to the inverter also. Could it be that
I am searching for something that isn't there? He removed the solar panel,
I'm starting to wonder if he removed the transfer switch too. Patrick, if I
can't get this solved, what is everyone's recommendation for replacement. I
have a microwave, satellite tv, computer so i will need correct power.

> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:04:43 -0500
> From: "Robert Neeb"
> Subject: Re: GMC: Installing StatPower TrueCharge40
>
> You're struggling with a statpower and i'm frustrated with the inverter.
> came with coach and Buskirk (Max) and I cannot get shore power to
> operate.
> Only way to power coach is through battery. There should be a switch
> that
> transfers power when using shore power. Getting real close to yanking
> the
> whole thing out and going to a converter.
>
> Robert, BR Whosale has transfer switches for that will fit your needs.
> The TS-50 will transfer between inverter and shorepower @50 AMPS for
> $133.
> They can be reached at 800-900-2468 or 800-848-0934 or
> www.brwholesale.com. They sell cahrgers, converters, Onan boards,
> Inverters ect.
>
> Steve Douglas
> 74 Eleganza SE
 
Robert,

I think we may be talking about two different issues here. Do I
understand correctly that you get no 110VAC unless the generator or
inverter is running? Stated a little more simply, are you not getting
110VAC from the shore power connection? If not, you need to have an
electrician trace the wiring from the shore power connection to the
110VAC electrical distribution panel.

There must be a method of transfering the 110VAC electrical service
between shore power and the genset. The GM(actually Gemini) factory
arrangement required moving the shore power cord plug between an
internally mounted genset outlet and the shore power connection. This
can be replaced with either an automatic or manual transfer switch.

Your inverter also has an internal transfer switch, but this is to
switch the unit between inverting and charging modes.

First things first tho' - if the coach isn't getting 110VAC from shore
power then there's something amiss between the shore power entrance and
the coach 110VAC distribution panel. Just be sure to get a qualified
electrician's help if you're not comfortable with any of this.

HTH, keep the questions coming,
Patrick

>
> I think I've gone over the edge. Checked out the coach for a transfer
> switch, (there has to have been one), not one to be found. Previous owner I
> am told had a solar panel connected to the inverter also. Could it be that
> I am searching for something that isn't there? He removed the solar panel,
> I'm starting to wonder if he removed the transfer switch too. Patrick, if I
> can't get this solved, what is everyone's recommendation for replacement. I
> have a microwave, satellite tv, computer so i will need correct power.
- --
Patrick Flowers
Mailto:patrick

The GMC Motorhome Page
http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
 
Robert

I know that this seems very simple, but are you plugging the shore line into the
coach receptical when you run the gen?
Unless it has been replaced by an automatic switch, you can run the gen all day
and not get any juice to the coach.

Wayne Newland

> Robert,
>
> I think we may be talking about two different issues here. Do I
> understand correctly that you get no 110VAC unless the generator or
> inverter is running? Stated a little more simply, are you not getting
> 110VAC from the shore power connection? If not, you need to have an
> electrician trace the wiring from the shore power connection to the
> 110VAC electrical distribution panel.
>
> There must be a method of transfering the 110VAC electrical service
> between shore power and the genset. The GM(actually Gemini) factory
> arrangement required moving the shore power cord plug between an
> internally mounted genset outlet and the shore power connection. This
> can be replaced with either an automatic or manual transfer switch.
>
> Your inverter also has an internal transfer switch, but this is to
> switch the unit between inverting and charging modes.
>
> First things first tho' - if the coach isn't getting 110VAC from shore
> power then there's something amiss between the shore power entrance and
> the coach 110VAC distribution panel. Just be sure to get a qualified
> electrician's help if you're not comfortable with any of this.
>
> HTH, keep the questions coming,
> Patrick
>

> >
> > I think I've gone over the edge. Checked out the coach for a transfer
> > switch, (there has to have been one), not one to be found. Previous owner I
> > am told had a solar panel connected to the inverter also. Could it be that
> > I am searching for something that isn't there? He removed the solar panel,
> > I'm starting to wonder if he removed the transfer switch too. Patrick, if I
> > can't get this solved, what is everyone's recommendation for replacement. I
> > have a microwave, satellite tv, computer so i will need correct power.
> --
> Patrick Flowers
> Mailto:patrick
>
> The GMC Motorhome Page
> http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
 
>
> Your inverter also has an internal transfer switch, but this is to
> switch the unit between inverting and charging modes.

I oversimplified a bit, the inverter also switches to "pass thru" when
in charging mode if it's wired into an AC circuit.

Patrick
- --
Patrick Flowers
Mailto:patrick

The GMC Motorhome Page
http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
 
I am plugging the shore line in with the generator. System will run and charge
properly. My problems arise with just shore power. Thanks though because simple is
best to a non electrician. And thanks to you too Patrick, I agree that I need
someone to check out the connection. I trace everything back and it looks fine to
me. Nothing like burnt areas (shorts) etc. Coach holds power in the batteries when
charged (no drain). I am still stumped but I will let you all know what the problem
was when I finally get it. Just be prepared for my other questions. I'm sure I'll
keep them coming.

> Robert
>
> I know that this seems very simple, but are you plugging the shore line into the
> coach receptical when you run the gen?
> Unless it has been replaced by an automatic switch, you can run the gen all day
> and not get any juice to the coach.
>
> Wayne Newland
>

>
> > Robert,
> >
> > I think we may be talking about two different issues here. Do I
> > understand correctly that you get no 110VAC unless the generator or
> > inverter is running? Stated a little more simply, are you not getting
> > 110VAC from the shore power connection? If not, you need to have an
> > electrician trace the wiring from the shore power connection to the
> > 110VAC electrical distribution panel.
> >
> > There must be a method of transfering the 110VAC electrical service
> > between shore power and the genset. The GM(actually Gemini) factory
> > arrangement required moving the shore power cord plug between an
> > internally mounted genset outlet and the shore power connection. This
> > can be replaced with either an automatic or manual transfer switch.
> >
> > Your inverter also has an internal transfer switch, but this is to
> > switch the unit between inverting and charging modes.
> >
> > First things first tho' - if the coach isn't getting 110VAC from shore
> > power then there's something amiss between the shore power entrance and
> > the coach 110VAC distribution panel. Just be sure to get a qualified
> > electrician's help if you're not comfortable with any of this.
> >
> > HTH, keep the questions coming,
> > Patrick
> >

> > >
> > > I think I've gone over the edge. Checked out the coach for a transfer
> > > switch, (there has to have been one), not one to be found. Previous owner I
> > > am told had a solar panel connected to the inverter also. Could it be that
> > > I am searching for something that isn't there? He removed the solar panel,
> > > I'm starting to wonder if he removed the transfer switch too. Patrick, if I
> > > can't get this solved, what is everyone's recommendation for replacement. I
> > > have a microwave, satellite tv, computer so i will need correct power.
> > --
> > Patrick Flowers
> > Mailto:patrick
> >
> > The GMC Motorhome Page
> > http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
 
Patrick,
You are correct when you say that I am not getting 110 from shore power when I am
plugged in. It is not the outlet, as I have tried at two different campgrounds.
That's what I thought it might be originally. I thought it might be the power
cord itself but if it was bad when I plug into the coach outlet when running the
generator the battery re-charges, so that would rule out the powercord I would
think.

I have wondered if there was an automatic or manual transfer switch but see none.
I can follow power lines from the inverter to the breaker box and I have searched
all the obvious places to put a switch if there is one. Am I correct in assuming
that my next course of action is to have the power traced from the shore plug into
the coach? Is there anything in particular that I should be looking for?

> Robert,
>
> I think we may be talking about two different issues here. Do I
> understand correctly that you get no 110VAC unless the generator or
> inverter is running? Stated a little more simply, are you not getting
> 110VAC from the shore power connection? If not, you need to have an
> electrician trace the wiring from the shore power connection to the
> 110VAC electrical distribution panel.
>
> There must be a method of transfering the 110VAC electrical service
> between shore power and the genset. The GM(actually Gemini) factory
> arrangement required moving the shore power cord plug between an
> internally mounted genset outlet and the shore power connection. This
> can be replaced with either an automatic or manual transfer switch.
>
> Your inverter also has an internal transfer switch, but this is to
> switch the unit between inverting and charging modes.
>
> First things first tho' - if the coach isn't getting 110VAC from shore
> power then there's something amiss between the shore power entrance and
> the coach 110VAC distribution panel. Just be sure to get a qualified
> electrician's help if you're not comfortable with any of this.
>
> HTH, keep the questions coming,
> Patrick
>

> >
> > I think I've gone over the edge. Checked out the coach for a transfer
> > switch, (there has to have been one), not one to be found. Previous owner I
> > am told had a solar panel connected to the inverter also. Could it be that
> > I am searching for something that isn't there? He removed the solar panel,
> > I'm starting to wonder if he removed the transfer switch too. Patrick, if I
> > can't get this solved, what is everyone's recommendation for replacement. I
> > have a microwave, satellite tv, computer so i will need correct power.
> --
> Patrick Flowers
> Mailto:patrick
>
> The GMC Motorhome Page
> http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
 
>
> Patrick,
> You are correct when you say that I am not getting 110 from shore power when I am
> plugged in. It is not the outlet, as I have tried at two different campgrounds.
> That's what I thought it might be originally. I thought it might be the power
> cord itself but if it was bad when I plug into the coach outlet when running the
> generator the battery re-charges, so that would rule out the powercord I would
> think.

This is a strange one. It would seem that there wouldn't be any
difference between plugging the shore power line into the generator or
plugging it into a campsite outlet. However, if your coach is equipped
with an automatic transfer switch, you wouldn't need to plug the shore
power cord into the genset outlet - so it still might be a bad cord.
More likely a bad or improperly installed transfer switch tho' - the
cords rarely go bad.

Pretty sure at this point that it's not an inverter problem.

> I have wondered if there was an automatic or manual transfer switch but see none.
> I can follow power lines from the inverter to the breaker box and I have searched
> all the obvious places to put a switch if there is one. Am I correct in assuming
> that my next course of action is to have the power traced from the shore plug into
> the coach? Is there anything in particular that I should be looking for?

I'd follow the shore power cord and see where it leads. Also trace the
generator output leads. If there's a transfer switch, then both should
lead to it. All the transfer switches that I've ever seen were housed
in a simple metal or plastic junction box, usually about 6 inches square
and four inches deep.

Good luck!
Patrick
- --
Patrick Flowers
Mailto:patrick

The GMC Motorhome Page
http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
 
Robert

Bring us up to date. What year and model do you have?

Wayne Newland

> Patrick,
> You are correct when you say that I am not getting 110 from shore power when I am
> plugged in. It is not the outlet, as I have tried at two different campgrounds.
> That's what I thought it might be originally. I thought it might be the power
> cord itself but if it was bad when I plug into the coach outlet when running the
> generator the battery re-charges, so that would rule out the powercord I would
> think.
>
> I have wondered if there was an automatic or manual transfer switch but see none.
> I can follow power lines from the inverter to the breaker box and I have searched
> all the obvious places to put a switch if there is one. Am I correct in assuming
> that my next course of action is to have the power traced from the shore plug into
> the coach? Is there anything in particular that I should be looking for?
>

>
> > Robert,
> >
> > I think we may be talking about two different issues here. Do I
> > understand correctly that you get no 110VAC unless the generator or
> > inverter is running? Stated a little more simply, are you not getting
> > 110VAC from the shore power connection? If not, you need to have an
> > electrician trace the wiring from the shore power connection to the
> > 110VAC electrical distribution panel.
> >
> > There must be a method of transfering the 110VAC electrical service
> > between shore power and the genset. The GM(actually Gemini) factory
> > arrangement required moving the shore power cord plug between an
> > internally mounted genset outlet and the shore power connection. This
> > can be replaced with either an automatic or manual transfer switch.
> >
> > Your inverter also has an internal transfer switch, but this is to
> > switch the unit between inverting and charging modes.
> >
> > First things first tho' - if the coach isn't getting 110VAC from shore
> > power then there's something amiss between the shore power entrance and
> > the coach 110VAC distribution panel. Just be sure to get a qualified
> > electrician's help if you're not comfortable with any of this.
> >
> > HTH, keep the questions coming,
> > Patrick
> >

> > >
> > > I think I've gone over the edge. Checked out the coach for a transfer
> > > switch, (there has to have been one), not one to be found. Previous owner I
> > > am told had a solar panel connected to the inverter also. Could it be that
> > > I am searching for something that isn't there? He removed the solar panel,
> > > I'm starting to wonder if he removed the transfer switch too. Patrick, if I
> > > can't get this solved, what is everyone's recommendation for replacement. I
> > > have a microwave, satellite tv, computer so i will need correct power.
> > --
> > Patrick Flowers
> > Mailto:patrick
> >
> > The GMC Motorhome Page
> > http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
 
Wayne,
I have a 78 Eleganza II,
Dr. Chambers has done a nice job updating the coach, disk brakes, back vaccuum, etc.,
Only major problems are the electrical problem I am currently working on and the fact
that the 403 has 118,000 miles on it, although he did replace the timing chain a couple
of years ago. That will be my next project, researching what engine to put in. The
more I study GMCer's web pages the more choices there seem to be.

> Robert
>
> Bring us up to date. What year and model do you have?
>
> Wayne Newland
>

>
> > Patrick,
> > You are correct when you say that I am not getting 110 from shore power when I am
> > plugged in. It is not the outlet, as I have tried at two different campgrounds.
> > That's what I thought it might be originally. I thought it might be the power
> > cord itself but if it was bad when I plug into the coach outlet when running the
> > generator the battery re-charges, so that would rule out the powercord I would
> > think.
> >
> > I have wondered if there was an automatic or manual transfer switch but see none.
> > I can follow power lines from the inverter to the breaker box and I have searched
> > all the obvious places to put a switch if there is one. Am I correct in assuming
> > that my next course of action is to have the power traced from the shore plug into
> > the coach? Is there anything in particular that I should be looking for?
> >

> >
> > > Robert,
> > >
> > > I think we may be talking about two different issues here. Do I
> > > understand correctly that you get no 110VAC unless the generator or
> > > inverter is running? Stated a little more simply, are you not getting
> > > 110VAC from the shore power connection? If not, you need to have an
> > > electrician trace the wiring from the shore power connection to the
> > > 110VAC electrical distribution panel.
> > >
> > > There must be a method of transfering the 110VAC electrical service
> > > between shore power and the genset. The GM(actually Gemini) factory
> > > arrangement required moving the shore power cord plug between an
> > > internally mounted genset outlet and the shore power connection. This
> > > can be replaced with either an automatic or manual transfer switch.
> > >
> > > Your inverter also has an internal transfer switch, but this is to
> > > switch the unit between inverting and charging modes.
> > >
> > > First things first tho' - if the coach isn't getting 110VAC from shore
> > > power then there's something amiss between the shore power entrance and
> > > the coach 110VAC distribution panel. Just be sure to get a qualified
> > > electrician's help if you're not comfortable with any of this.
> > >
> > > HTH, keep the questions coming,
> > > Patrick
> > >

> > > >
> > > > I think I've gone over the edge. Checked out the coach for a transfer
> > > > switch, (there has to have been one), not one to be found. Previous owner I
> > > > am told had a solar panel connected to the inverter also. Could it be that
> > > > I am searching for something that isn't there? He removed the solar panel,
> > > > I'm starting to wonder if he removed the transfer switch too. Patrick, if I
> > > > can't get this solved, what is everyone's recommendation for replacement. I
> > > > have a microwave, satellite tv, computer so i will need correct power.
> > > --
> > > Patrick Flowers
> > > Mailto:patrick
> > >
> > > The GMC Motorhome Page
> > > http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
 
>
> Robert & Patrick,
> PMFJI. I've been sort of half following this thread, but not jumping in
> as I know little about these fancy converters/inverters. (I still use my old
> ferro-resonant buzz-box, and like it!)

Humph! Luddite! :o)

> However, reviewing as many of your posts as I could find makes me wonder
> if your inverter has anything to do with this.

Pretty sure the inverter isn't to blame. I'd love to be able to run
over to Roberts with my DVOM and work this one thru.

> My main question is: "Do you
> at any time and under any configuration get 110VAC at the coach interior
> outlets, any of them?" If you do, then you've got something weird and
> wonderful going on, and further discussion/tracing is in order. However, if
> you do NOT ever get 110VAC inside, whether "plugged in" or running the Onan,
> then I'd go back to the shore power cord and its connections. You see, the
> Onan has a little built-in 12VDC battery charger, wired directly to its
> battery(s), and WILL recharge them even if the shore power cord is
> unplugged/cut/broken/whatever, albeit slowly.

Apparently he only gets 110VAC when running the generator. I'm curious
if he would get 110VAC with the genset running and the shore power cord
unplugged. If he does, then there's definitely either a transfer switch
or some creative PO re-wiring involved.

Patrick
- --
Patrick Flowers
Mailto:patrick

The GMC Motorhome Page
http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
 
Rick,
I would agree. I intend to drive to Buskirk in Sandusky the next day or two and
see if armed with the information I have picked up from all of you, if we can
isolate the problem. It does seem odd that I get 110V with the generator but not
with shore plug. Someone suggested that the plug itself may be bad but only works
essentially when it is twisted the right way. Believe it or not that is the first
thing I will have checked because the rest of the coach electirical works just
fine. The inverter also appears to be doing its job correctly, charging the coach
and engine batteries and converting the generator power. The inverter company also
suggested re-wiring from the plug all the way back to the inverter. That will be
the second thing to look at. I surely will let you know what the final solution
is.

> >
> > Robert & Patrick,
> > PMFJI. I've been sort of half following this thread, but not jumping in
> > as I know little about these fancy converters/inverters. (I still use my old
> > ferro-resonant buzz-box, and like it!)
>
> Humph! Luddite! :o)
>
> > However, reviewing as many of your posts as I could find makes me wonder
> > if your inverter has anything to do with this.
>
> Pretty sure the inverter isn't to blame. I'd love to be able to run
> over to Roberts with my DVOM and work this one thru.
>
> > My main question is: "Do you
> > at any time and under any configuration get 110VAC at the coach interior
> > outlets, any of them?" If you do, then you've got something weird and
> > wonderful going on, and further discussion/tracing is in order. However, if
> > you do NOT ever get 110VAC inside, whether "plugged in" or running the Onan,
> > then I'd go back to the shore power cord and its connections. You see, the
> > Onan has a little built-in 12VDC battery charger, wired directly to its
> > battery(s), and WILL recharge them even if the shore power cord is
> > unplugged/cut/broken/whatever, albeit slowly.
>
> Apparently he only gets 110VAC when running the generator. I'm curious
> if he would get 110VAC with the genset running and the shore power cord
> unplugged. If he does, then there's definitely either a transfer switch
> or some creative PO re-wiring involved.
>
> Patrick
> --
> Patrick Flowers
> Mailto:patrick
>
> The GMC Motorhome Page
> http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
 
Patrick
I just caught your comment about running the generator and leaving the shore plug
unplugged and checking for 110V. I didn't think of that. I will try that in the
morning and let you know
And thanks for the help finding a spare tire cover.

> >
> > Robert & Patrick,
> > PMFJI. I've been sort of half following this thread, but not jumping in
> > as I know little about these fancy converters/inverters. (I still use my old
> > ferro-resonant buzz-box, and like it!)
>
> Humph! Luddite! :o)
>
> > However, reviewing as many of your posts as I could find makes me wonder
> > if your inverter has anything to do with this.
>
> Pretty sure the inverter isn't to blame. I'd love to be able to run
> over to Roberts with my DVOM and work this one thru.
>
> > My main question is: "Do you
> > at any time and under any configuration get 110VAC at the coach interior
> > outlets, any of them?" If you do, then you've got something weird and
> > wonderful going on, and further discussion/tracing is in order. However, if
> > you do NOT ever get 110VAC inside, whether "plugged in" or running the Onan,
> > then I'd go back to the shore power cord and its connections. You see, the
> > Onan has a little built-in 12VDC battery charger, wired directly to its
> > battery(s), and WILL recharge them even if the shore power cord is
> > unplugged/cut/broken/whatever, albeit slowly.
>
> Apparently he only gets 110VAC when running the generator. I'm curious
> if he would get 110VAC with the genset running and the shore power cord
> unplugged. If he does, then there's definitely either a transfer switch
> or some creative PO re-wiring involved.
>
> Patrick
> --
> Patrick Flowers
> Mailto:patrick
>
> The GMC Motorhome Page
> http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
 
Patrick,
Finally a solution to my AC problem. The shore power cord has a 50amp plug. The
adapter to allow it to be plugged into a 30 amp service was defective. Replaced
the adapter and an amazing thing occurred. AC power in the coach. Thanks to
everyone for their concern and suggestions. But I guess we missed the easy one.

> Robert,
>
> I think we may be talking about two different issues here. Do I
> understand correctly that you get no 110VAC unless the generator or
> inverter is running? Stated a little more simply, are you not getting
> 110VAC from the shore power connection? If not, you need to have an
> electrician trace the wiring from the shore power connection to the
> 110VAC electrical distribution panel.
>
> There must be a method of transfering the 110VAC electrical service
> between shore power and the genset. The GM(actually Gemini) factory
> arrangement required moving the shore power cord plug between an
> internally mounted genset outlet and the shore power connection. This
> can be replaced with either an automatic or manual transfer switch.
>
> Your inverter also has an internal transfer switch, but this is to
> switch the unit between inverting and charging modes.
>
> First things first tho' - if the coach isn't getting 110VAC from shore
> power then there's something amiss between the shore power entrance and
> the coach 110VAC distribution panel. Just be sure to get a qualified
> electrician's help if you're not comfortable with any of this.
>
> HTH, keep the questions coming,
> Patrick
>

> >
> > I think I've gone over the edge. Checked out the coach for a transfer
> > switch, (there has to have been one), not one to be found. Previous owner I
> > am told had a solar panel connected to the inverter also. Could it be that
> > I am searching for something that isn't there? He removed the solar panel,
> > I'm starting to wonder if he removed the transfer switch too. Patrick, if I
> > can't get this solved, what is everyone's recommendation for replacement. I
> > have a microwave, satellite tv, computer so i will need correct power.
> --
> Patrick Flowers
> Mailto:patrick
>
> The GMC Motorhome Page
> http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
 
Robert,

Hey, an easy win is still a win! Glad to hear you figured it out.

Patrick

>
> Patrick,
> Finally a solution to my AC problem. The shore power cord
> has a 50amp plug. The adapter to allow it to be plugged
> into a 30 amp service was defective. Replaced the adapter
> and an amazing thing occurred. AC power in the coach.
> Thanks to everyone for their concern and suggestions. But
> I guess we missed the easy one.