I THINK I AM THROWING IN THE TOWEL

I don't know, I usually start at the front and work my way back.
1- Is the fuel bowl filling.?
2- Is the filter plugged and in correctly?
3- Is the line from pump to carb good?
4- Pump has proper fuel pressure and delivering fuel?
etc.
It takes fuel in the carb to make it run. (Your 5 gal can and electric pump) If it won't run you can stop right there and fix your problem. Or, if it
works fine you move back one step. Keep doing that and eventually you will find your problem. Working from the back forward will eventually work but
it's much more positive working from the front back.

It may still be ignition. 74 is points and condenser. When it warms up the condenser could be failing or the hold down screw could be loose unless,
you've converted to an electronic ign then it could be a bad unit.
--
Patti & Jerry Burt Fresno, CA.
73 Gmc 26' Canyon Lands
77 Palm Beach - Parts Coach - SOLD
Members: FMCA - GMCMI - GMCWS
A truly happy person is one who can enjoy the scenery on a detour.
 
> I don't know, I usually start at the front and work my way back.
> 1- Is the fuel bowl filling.?
> IT SEEMS NOT
>
> 2- Is the filter plugged and in correctly?
> NOT PLUGGED, CLEAN, IN CORRECTLY
>
> 3- Is the line from pump to carb good?
> THE LINE FROM PUMP TO CARB IS NEW
>
> 4- Pump has proper fuel pressure and delivering fuel?
> etc.
> THIS IS BECOMING THE MAIN CONCERN. WHEN TESTED IT HAD GOOD PSI. BUT when connected to the Ext tank, all new hoses to mechanical pump, the fuel
> seems to not be filling the carb bowl. Further testing is proceeding.
>
> It takes fuel in the carb to make it run. (Your 5 gal can and electric pump) If it won't run you can stop right there and fix your problem. Or, if
> it works fine you move back one step. Keep doing that and eventually you will find your problem. Working from the back forward will eventually work
> but it's much more positive working from the front back.
> The OEM fuel tanks and hoses up to the sol valves are plugged and now, not in use.
> I have an 18gal fuel tank on the rear rack, all new hoses to the front to the Mechanical pump. Idled good but when doing the test drive, the
> bowl lost level. there is nothing it seems that can do this except the mech fuel pump. will add an electric fuel pump in line to add to the
> upcoming test run. You are right. the problem will be found.
>
> It may still be ignition. 74 is points and condenser. When it warms up the condenser could be failing or the hold down screw could be loose
> unless, you've converted to an electronic ign then it could be a bad unit.
> -The ign was changed over to electronic when the tanks were dropped to change the hoses, when all this happened. We found that if you pump the
> accellerator, you only get two good sprays into the throat then no spray at all, the bowl is empty of fuel. I do have the accellerator pump in
> mind, it is newer but may be on the check list if improvement does not occur. with the OEM fuel system OOS, the system is very simple now. there
> is very little to test and find the source of the problem. We know the OEM fuel system starves the system of fuel, this happened since the tanks
> were dropped to change the hoses. but so much has been changed out to get the GMC running again that everything is now in question. Still trying
> to find the problem(s).

--
GatsbysCruise. \
74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU STUDIO -
UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center
 
I'm going to asked 2 of the stupidest question on here probably.....

The motor DOES have a fuel pump eccentric still on the end of the cam? Guys have been known to remove them when swapping over to electric pumps and
doing the timing chain set.

Is the pump being installed on the correct side of the eccentric if it does have it still? Yes it hard to do but it can be done, been there, was one
of the craziest diags i've had to do.
--
Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600
 
> I'm going to asked 2 of the stupidest question on here probably.....
>
> The motor DOES have a fuel pump eccentric still on the end of the cam? Guys have been known to remove them when swapping over to electric pumps
> and doing the timing chain set.
>
> Is the pump being installed on the correct side of the eccentric if it does have it still? Yes it hard to do but it can be done, been there, was
> one of the craziest diags i've had to do.

I dont believe anything has been removed from the cam. If it entails removing the cam, then NO it has not been tampered with.
I will have to ask the mechanic because I have no knowledge of what you speak.
The Mechanical fuel pump is still in place and we ATTEMPTED in this test to use the mechanical fuel pump. As I mentioned the psi tests were good but
the actual run around the block was a total failure.

When back at the shop the mechanic pumped the carb, we got two good sprays in the carb throat then nothing after that. Seems to indicate the bowl was
out of gas so the fuel pump is not keeping up (assumption) with the demand of the carb?????

Will be putting on an electric fuel pump in line and POSSIBLY replacing the Mech fuel pump and doing the next big TEST RUN.

HONESTLY, we cut out the OEM fuel tanks and hoses up to and including the solenoid fuel valves and ran fuel from a 18 gal fuel tank, all new hoses to
the Mech Fuel pump. We ran idle for 15 minutes with no problem but when moving, putting load on the engine, develops the problem again.

I have been frustrated with this problem, the fix should be so simple and yet it has not been found yet?
We are checking and revising plans and getting ready to attempt a second test run, possibly next week.

I will tell the mechanic about the device you mentioned and see what he knows about it. Thanks.

slc
--
GatsbysCruise. \
74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU STUDIO -
UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center
 
I would put a temporary fuel pressure gauge in line after the fuel pump as
close to the carburettor as possible and see if the fuel pressure drops
when you have the problem. Have you already tried that? I have not read
most of the thread. From this last entry it looks like you have isolated
the problem to the fuel pump forward.

On Sat, Aug 29, 2020 at 4:20 PM slc via Gmclist
wrote:

> > I'm going to asked 2 of the stupidest question on here probably.....
> >
> > The motor DOES have a fuel pump eccentric still on the end of the cam?
> Guys have been known to remove them when swapping over to electric pumps
> > and doing the timing chain set.
> >
> > Is the pump being installed on the correct side of the eccentric if it
> does have it still? Yes it hard to do but it can be done, been there, was
> > one of the craziest diags i've had to do.
>
> I dont believe anything has been removed from the cam. If it entails
> removing the cam, then NO it has not been tampered with.
> I will have to ask the mechanic because I have no knowledge of what you
> speak.
> The Mechanical fuel pump is still in place and we ATTEMPTED in this test
> to use the mechanical fuel pump. As I mentioned the psi tests were good but
> the actual run around the block was a total failure.
>
> When back at the shop the mechanic pumped the carb, we got two good sprays
> in the carb throat then nothing after that. Seems to indicate the bowl was
> out of gas so the fuel pump is not keeping up (assumption) with the demand
> of the carb?????
>
> Will be putting on an electric fuel pump in line and POSSIBLY replacing
> the Mech fuel pump and doing the next big TEST RUN.
>
> HONESTLY, we cut out the OEM fuel tanks and hoses up to and including the
> solenoid fuel valves and ran fuel from a 18 gal fuel tank, all new hoses to
> the Mech Fuel pump. We ran idle for 15 minutes with no problem but when
> moving, putting load on the engine, develops the problem again.
>
> I have been frustrated with this problem, the fix should be so simple and
> yet it has not been found yet?
> We are checking and revising plans and getting ready to attempt a second
> test run, possibly next week.
>
> I will tell the mechanic about the device you mentioned and see what he
> knows about it. Thanks.
>
> slc
> --
> GatsbysCruise. \
> 74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
> Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS
> FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU STUDIO -
> UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--

*John Phillips*
 
That sounds like a cheap n easy check. Drive it with the hatch off gauge in
view at the wheel. Drive and verify fuel pressure at time of poor perf.

Sully
Bellevue wa

On Sat, Aug 29, 2020 at 8:28 PM John Phillips via Gmclist <

> I would put a temporary fuel pressure gauge in line after the fuel pump as
>
> close to the carburettor as possible and see if the fuel pressure drops
>
> when you have the problem. Have you already tried that? I have not read
>
> most of the thread. From this last entry it looks like you have isolated
>
> the problem to the fuel pump forward.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 29, 2020 at 4:20 PM slc via Gmclist
>

>
>
>

>
> > > I'm going to asked 2 of the stupidest question on here probably.....
>
> > >
>
> > > The motor DOES have a fuel pump eccentric still on the end of the cam?
>
> > Guys have been known to remove them when swapping over to electric pumps
>
> > > and doing the timing chain set.
>
> > >
>
> > > Is the pump being installed on the correct side of the eccentric if it
>
> > does have it still? Yes it hard to do but it can be done, been there,
> was
>
> > > one of the craziest diags i've had to do.
>
> >
>
> > I dont believe anything has been removed from the cam. If it entails
>
> > removing the cam, then NO it has not been tampered with.
>
> > I will have to ask the mechanic because I have no knowledge of what you
>
> > speak.
>
> > The Mechanical fuel pump is still in place and we ATTEMPTED in this test
>
> > to use the mechanical fuel pump. As I mentioned the psi tests were good
> but
>
> > the actual run around the block was a total failure.
>
> >
>
> > When back at the shop the mechanic pumped the carb, we got two good
> sprays
>
> > in the carb throat then nothing after that. Seems to indicate the bowl
> was
>
> > out of gas so the fuel pump is not keeping up (assumption) with the
> demand
>
> > of the carb?????
>
> >
>
> > Will be putting on an electric fuel pump in line and POSSIBLY replacing
>
> > the Mech fuel pump and doing the next big TEST RUN.
>
> >
>
> > HONESTLY, we cut out the OEM fuel tanks and hoses up to and including the
>
> > solenoid fuel valves and ran fuel from a 18 gal fuel tank, all new hoses
> to
>
> > the Mech Fuel pump. We ran idle for 15 minutes with no problem but when
>
> > moving, putting load on the engine, develops the problem again.
>
> >
>
> > I have been frustrated with this problem, the fix should be so simple and
>
> > yet it has not been found yet?
>
> > We are checking and revising plans and getting ready to attempt a second
>
> > test run, possibly next week.
>
> >
>
> > I will tell the mechanic about the device you mentioned and see what he
>
> > knows about it. Thanks.
>
> >
>
> > slc
>
> > --
>
> > GatsbysCruise. \
>
> > 74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
>
> > Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS
>
> > FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU
> STUDIO -
>
> > UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > GMCnet mailing list
>
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> *John Phillips*
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> GMCnet mailing list
>
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
 
I don’t know if it has been discussed earlier. But have you considered putting on a bolt on EFI throttle body, with a inline high pressure fuel pump
and get rid of the carb and other fuel pumps and lines? Almost start from scratch and eliminate What has not been working. It could cost around a
thousand dollars, but theoretically it should then be good to go. I just don’t know how much more you want to go on it.
But good luck, Scott.
--
Scott Nutter
1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi. Alex Ferrera
installed MSD Atomic EFI
Houston, Texas
 
So far, by my count, you have had 88 responses to your fuel related issue.
You have totally eliminated the stock fuel supply, and that did not make
any difference. SO, QUIT LOOKING THERE FOR THE CAUSE OF YOUR PROBLEM. You
have replaced the fuel supply with fuel from another source. STOP LOOKING
THERE, AS WELL.
That only leaves the carb and intake manifold. Pull that damn thing off the
manifold, and take your CSI light and carefully inspect the intake manifold
for cracks, and leaking intake gaskets. Verify your compression pressures
in all cylinders. They should all be within 10% of each other. That rules
out EVERYTHING but the Carb. Therin lies your problem, if it is fuel
related. If it is ignition related, be ready for round 2.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 3:09 PM Scott Nutter via Gmclist <

> I don’t know if it has been discussed earlier. But have you considered
> putting on a bolt on EFI throttle body, with a inline high pressure fuel
> pump
> and get rid of the carb and other fuel pumps and lines? Almost start from
> scratch and eliminate What has not been working. It could cost around a
> thousand dollars, but theoretically it should then be good to go. I just
> don’t know how much more you want to go on it.
> But good luck, Scott.
> --
> Scott Nutter
> 1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final
> drive, Quad bags, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi. Alex Ferrera
> installed MSD Atomic EFI
> Houston, Texas
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
TEST RESULTS 09-02-2020

only the mechanical fuel pump is connected to fuel lines..

the mechanical fuel pump psi is 5 psi

We ran the engine until it heated up, then it failed.

we ran the output of the mechanical fuel pump to a bucket,
put gas in the carb bowl and started the engine.

The mechanical fuel pump is dribbling fuel now.. when the mech fuel pump heats up, IT STOPS PUMPING.

We connected an electric fuel pump from an ext fuel tank to the carb, started the engine and ran good.
did not drive test at this time but all the hesitation, vary RPMs, everything is gone.
running normal.

So the shop suggested replacing the 3 port mech fuel pump with the same because there will be electric fuel
pumps from the OEM tanks after they are dropped and hoses changed.

changing all the fuel filters.

FINALLY positive movement forward...............
--
GatsbysCruise. \
74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU STUDIO -
UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center
 
Fantastic!!! good to hear your making progress!!!
--
Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600
 
My unsolicited advice:

Replace the three-port fuel pump with the correct pump
(NAPA M6108) AND use the electric pump as a backup if
needed to fix the so-called "vapor lock" if that occurs!

Mechanical fuel pumps have had a very successful life
for many tens of thousands of miles.

I guess a proper electric pump would be required if you
move to fuel injection.

D C "Mac" Macdonald
Amateur Radio K2GKK
Since 30 November '53
USAF and FAA, Retired
Member GMCMI & Classics
Oklahoma City, OK
"The Money Pit"
TZE166V101966
'76 ex-Palm Beach
k2gkk + hotmail dot com

________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of slc via Gmclist
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 16:25
To: gmclist
Cc: slc
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] I THINK I AM THROWING IN THE TOWEL

TEST RESULTS 09-02-2020

only the mechanical fuel pump is connected to fuel lines..

the mechanical fuel pump psi is 5 psi

We ran the engine until it heated up, then it failed.

we ran the output of the mechanical fuel pump to a bucket,
put gas in the carb bowl and started the engine.

The mechanical fuel pump is dribbling fuel now.. when the mech fuel pump heats up, IT STOPS PUMPING.

We connected an electric fuel pump from an ext fuel tank to the carb, started the engine and ran good.
did not drive test at this time but all the hesitation, vary RPMs, everything is gone.
running normal.

So the shop suggested replacing the 3 port mech fuel pump with the same because there will be electric fuel
pumps from the OEM tanks after they are dropped and hoses changed.

changing all the fuel filters.

FINALLY positive movement forward...............
--
GatsbysCruise. \
74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU STUDIO -
UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center

_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
WOW

Why any mechanical pump?

Marsh Wilkes
Perry Fl

-----Original Message-----
From: slc via Gmclist
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2020 5:25 PM
To: gmclist
Cc: slc
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] I THINK I AM THROWING IN THE TOWEL

TEST RESULTS 09-02-2020

only the mechanical fuel pump is connected to fuel lines..

the mechanical fuel pump psi is 5 psi

We ran the engine until it heated up, then it failed.

we ran the output of the mechanical fuel pump to a bucket,
put gas in the carb bowl and started the engine.

The mechanical fuel pump is dribbling fuel now.. when the mech fuel pump
heats up, IT STOPS PUMPING.

We connected an electric fuel pump from an ext fuel tank to the carb,
started the engine and ran good.
did not drive test at this time but all the hesitation, vary RPMs,
everything is gone.
running normal.

So the shop suggested replacing the 3 port mech fuel pump with the same
because there will be electric fuel
pumps from the OEM tanks after they are dropped and hoses changed.

changing all the fuel filters.

FINALLY positive movement forward...............
--
GatsbysCruise. \
74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS FASTER
THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU STUDIO -
UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center

_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Exactly. Get rid of the mechanical fuel pump. Put a block plate over the opening.

Emery Stora

>
> WOW
>
> Why any mechanical pump?
>
> Marsh Wilkes
> Perry Fl
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: slc via Gmclist
> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2020 5:25 PM
> To: gmclist
> Cc: slc
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] I THINK I AM THROWING IN THE TOWEL
>
> TEST RESULTS 09-02-2020
>
> only the mechanical fuel pump is connected to fuel lines..
>
> the mechanical fuel pump psi is 5 psi
>
> We ran the engine until it heated up, then it failed.
>
> we ran the output of the mechanical fuel pump to a bucket,
> put gas in the carb bowl and started the engine.
>
> The mechanical fuel pump is dribbling fuel now.. when the mech fuel pump heats up, IT STOPS PUMPING.
>
> We connected an electric fuel pump from an ext fuel tank to the carb, started the engine and ran good.
> did not drive test at this time but all the hesitation, vary RPMs, everything is gone.
> running normal.
>
> So the shop suggested replacing the 3 port mech fuel pump with the same because there will be electric fuel
> pumps from the OEM tanks after they are dropped and hoses changed.
>
> changing all the fuel filters.
>
> FINALLY positive movement forward...............
> --
> GatsbysCruise. \
> 74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
> Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU STUDIO -
> UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
As I read the first message in this 98 message thread, you've had the
solution a switch-flip away all the time: Electric Fuel Pump. :-)

Ken H.

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 7:07 PM Emery Stora via Gmclist <

> Exactly. Get rid of the mechanical fuel pump. Put a block plate over the
> opening.
>
> Emery Stora
>
> > On Sep 2, 2020, at 3:59 PM, Marsh Wilkes via Gmclist <

> >
> > WOW
> >
> > Why any mechanical pump?
> >
> > Marsh Wilkes
> > Perry Fl
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message----- From: slc via Gmclist
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2020 5:25 PM
> > To: gmclist
> > Cc: slc
> > Subject: Re: [GMCnet] I THINK I AM THROWING IN THE TOWEL
> >
> > TEST RESULTS 09-02-2020
> >
> > only the mechanical fuel pump is connected to fuel lines..
> >
> > the mechanical fuel pump psi is 5 psi
> >
> > We ran the engine until it heated up, then it failed.
> >
> > we ran the output of the mechanical fuel pump to a bucket,
> > put gas in the carb bowl and started the engine.
> >
> > The mechanical fuel pump is dribbling fuel now.. when the mech fuel
> pump heats up, IT STOPS PUMPING.
> >
> > We connected an electric fuel pump from an ext fuel tank to the carb,
> started the engine and ran good.
> > did not drive test at this time but all the hesitation, vary RPMs,
> everything is gone.
> > running normal.
> >
> > So the shop suggested replacing the 3 port mech fuel pump with the same
> because there will be electric fuel
> > pumps from the OEM tanks after they are dropped and hoses changed.
> >
> > changing all the fuel filters.
> >
> > FINALLY positive movement forward...............
> > --
> > GatsbysCruise. \
> > 74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
> > Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS
> FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU STUDIO -
> > UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
So when the mechanical pump fails, does it obstruct the flow through it also? Or will an electric low pressure pump push fuel through? I have a
similar random unexplainable power loss that has happened even when the electric pump was running.
--
Terry Kelpien

ASE Master Technician

73 Glacier 260

Smithfield, Va.
 
two electric pumps, either with backflow preventers or built in ones (Mr Gasket pumps have it built in) output teed, inputs one from each tank through
a Wix filter. Relay which switches safety power to either pump using the selector valve power for the reloay. Safety power come through a Ford
Ranger safety switch or an oil pressure switch to shut the pump off in an accident. Denergized side opf the relay runs the main, energized runs the
aux. Here's pictures iof I already didn't post them: http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6198-cane-9-creek-rv-park-heflin-2c-al.html

--johnny

--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
 
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