I Need Some Advice

M

michael bozardt

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Jan 3, 2007
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Haven't found anyone in College Station Texas who will come over to work on the '74 GMC M/H. This means do-it-yourself for me and I am not a mechanic.
I have been trying, though, but without success. I had it towed here on a Landol trailer from 3 years storage in Houston where it would not start.
Have owned the coach since 2001 and been to a number of GMCMI conventions. Never had this issue. Prior to storage, I dropped the tanks which I found
to be unexpectedly clean. Had the tanks dipped. Installed rebuilt original sending units and reinstalled tanks. Soon after, drove it to he storage
site, about 20 miles. It did backfire a few times during that drive. Has note run since.
With that background in mind, the coach will not run. It starts with fuel poured into the carb but dies very soon after that.
KANOMATA told me to adjust the electric choke, but I don't know how-loosen screws and turn it? But which way and how much??
Here is what I have done: Had carb rebuilt (Jim Bounds). Replaced coil, spark plugs, replaced fuel filters(3), installed(temporary) electric fuel
pump, inlet to fuel pump from gas can. Set timing( #1 plug removed, piston up, distributor rotor pointing to #1 plug wire.
Distributor is points type minus the points because it has one of those electronic gismo things. Has Paterson plug wires.
So, tell me, before I go back to points in the distributor, how to set the carb for correct idle(it may have been set by Jim's carb guy but came back
without instructions or setting information-so I assumed he had set it.)
And tell me how to set the electric choke-it begins to open as soon as I start cranking the engine.
You can email me at mailto:gemrecs or call me at 713-373-7775
I also have some parts to sell-some odds and ends stuff like the door strap and bracket, but some good stuff too like new front hood latch kit, two
bath lights (original, 3 bulb type), and set of frame pads(new) for early coaches and much more.
Thx for your help, Michael
 
Since it starts with substitute fuel, try a substitute fuel supply as others have mentioned on here before. Use a gas can or marine outboard tank and
supply the carb with fuel, bypassing the entire fuel delivery system. If fuel is getting to the inside of the carb, it should run even without a
choke, maybe a little rough at first, but 1 minute of running should smooth that out. If it does not run, check the float/needle and seat valve in the
carb to make sure it is not stuck closed. If it does run, the problem is in the fuel delivery system. This is just the second step in testing (the
first was you putting fuel down the carb throat), so post again when you have results and others will chime in with more testing procedures.

Be careful with the exposed fuel supply, have a fire watch and extinguisher at the ready.
--
Terry Kelpien

ASE Master Technician

73 Glacier 260

Smithfield, Va.
 
> ...drove it to he storage site, about 20 miles. It did backfire a few times during that drive. Has not run since.
> With that background in mind, the coach will not run. It starts with fuel poured into the carb but dies very soon after that. ...
Clearly when it ran to the storage site something was wrong. Backfiring out the exhaust pipe means unburned fuel has found its way to the exhaust
system, then it ignited. Backfiring through the intake means spark has found its way past an intake valve, could be sticking, could be timing.

Now about running with gas poured down the carb and not any other way:

Working back, 1. is the needle valve stuck 2. is the carb filter plugged 3. is the mechanical fuel pump working. 4 is the selector valve faulty 5. are
the fuel socks plugged 6. is there a leak anywhere between the tanks and the fuel pump where air can get sucked in causing the mechanical pump to be
unable to pump gas 7. is there an obstruction between the selector valve and the fuel pump.

If there is a problem between one tank and the selector valve, it should run on the other tank. Probability says the problem is between the inputs to
the selector valve and the carb bowl.

I always favor feeding the fuel pump through a section of gas line between it and a gas can as a first test. If it runs that way, the problem is
between the pump and the tanks. If it doesn't run that way, the problem is between the pump inlet and the carb bowl.

Post back if you need more details.
--
73 23' Sequoia 4 Sale
73 23' CanyonLands Parts Unit 4 Sale
Upper Alabama
"Highest price does not guarantee highest quality."
 
Michael,
Call me Sunday my time after 10am here at the shop.
At that time, I'll have you go to your coach and I'll talk you through on
setting the choke.

On Sat, Oct 29, 2016 at 10:51 AM, Michael Bozardt
wrote:

> Haven't found anyone in College Station Texas who will come over to work
> on the '74 GMC M/H. This means do-it-yourself for me and I am not a
> mechanic.
> I have been trying, though, but without success. I had it towed here on a
> Landol trailer from 3 years storage in Houston where it would not start.
> Have owned the coach since 2001 and been to a number of GMCMI conventions.
> Never had this issue. Prior to storage, I dropped the tanks which I found
> to be unexpectedly clean. Had the tanks dipped. Installed rebuilt original
> sending units and reinstalled tanks. Soon after, drove it to he storage
> site, about 20 miles. It did backfire a few times during that drive. Has
> note run since.
> With that background in mind, the coach will not run. It starts with fuel
> poured into the carb but dies very soon after that.
> KANOMATA told me to adjust the electric choke, but I don't know how-loosen
> screws and turn it? But which way and how much??
> Here is what I have done: Had carb rebuilt (Jim Bounds). Replaced coil,
> spark plugs, replaced fuel filters(3), installed(temporary) electric fuel
> pump, inlet to fuel pump from gas can. Set timing( #1 plug removed, piston
> up, distributor rotor pointing to #1 plug wire.
> Distributor is points type minus the points because it has one of those
> electronic gismo things. Has Paterson plug wires.
> So, tell me, before I go back to points in the distributor, how to set the
> carb for correct idle(it may have been set by Jim's carb guy but came back
> without instructions or setting information-so I assumed he had set it.)
> And tell me how to set the electric choke-it begins to open as soon as I
> start cranking the engine.
> You can email me at mailto:gemrecs or call me at 713-373-7775
> I also have some parts to sell-some odds and ends stuff like the door
> strap and bracket, but some good stuff too like new front hood latch kit,
> two
> bath lights (original, 3 bulb type), and set of frame pads(new) for early
> coaches and much more.
> Thx for your help, Michael
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
 
To clarify, when you say pouring gas down the carb, do you mean down the buterflys or into the fuel bowl? Filling the bowl via a small funnel [I have
a lot of syringes that are useful for this] would be better as then it will run until the bowl emptys.You will then know iof it is a fuel flow
issue.

As far as setting the choke, if you rotate the housing in the direction that closes the choke, that would be richer, IE keeping the choke on longer

Qjets have an inline filter in the inlet behindd the big nut. Some are paper, some are the pressed brass Morrine [sp?] type. Some rebuilders and
particularly racers leave them out and run an external filter as they clog easily and restrict flow, not to mention are a PITA to change. Particularly
if you strip the threads. [Ask me how I know this.]

it is also possible to put the filter in wrong so that it won't flow right

Also, does your carb have exposed idle adjustment screws? In the era of our coaches they probably had plugs which rebuilders [including myself] often
remove for better cleaning and adjustability. If they are exposed they not be set right.
--
76 Glenbrook
 
If it tries to start or starts and then stops you have an issue withe the motor not getting fuel. Unscrew the line going into the front of the carb. This takes 2 wrenches. A big one maybe 15/16, and a smaller one maybe 9/16 or 5/8. Loosen the smaller one while holing the big one ...after the smaller one is loose unscrew the big one....there is a filter in there ...take it out....Now try cranking the engine with the starter and observe if fuel is coning from the line from the fuel pump going to the carb....is it?....brian 77 ele 455

________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of Chris Tyler
Sent: October 30, 2016 7:48 AM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] I Need Some Advice

To clarify, when you say pouring gas down the carb, do you mean down the buterflys or into the fuel bowl? Filling the bowl via a small funnel [I have
a lot of syringes that are useful for this] would be better as then it will run until the bowl emptys.You will then know iof it is a fuel flow
issue.

As far as setting the choke, if you rotate the housing in the direction that closes the choke, that would be richer, IE keeping the choke on longer

Qjets have an inline filter in the inlet behindd the big nut. Some are paper, some are the pressed brass Morrine [sp?] type. Some rebuilders and
particularly racers leave them out and run an external filter as they clog easily and restrict flow, not to mention are a PITA to change. Particularly
if you strip the threads. [Ask me how I know this.]

it is also possible to put the filter in wrong so that it won't flow right

Also, does your carb have exposed idle adjustment screws? In the era of our coaches they probably had plugs which rebuilders [including myself] often
remove for better cleaning and adjustability. If they are exposed they not be set right.
--
76 Glenbrook

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I FIRST TRIED FUEL DOWN THE PRIMARY INTAKES( NOT INTO THE FLOAT BOWL).
THEN I TRIED CHANGING THE FILTERS-AT CARB USING CRESCENT WRENCH AND 5/8 OPEN END. HAVE DONE THIS MANY TIMES WITHOUT INCIDENT. FILTER LOOKED OKAY BUT
PUT A NEW ONE IN ANYWAY-OPEN END FACING AWAY FROM CARB. ALSO CHANGED FILTER ELEMENT IN SCREW ON FUEL FILTER UNDER COACH.
THEN I TRIED PUTTING END OF RUBBER FUEL LINE IN FRESH GAS IN FUEL CAN.
THEN I HAD CARBURETOR REBUILT THROUGH JIM BOUNDS THOUGH IT HAD BEEN REBUILT BY D. PATERSON A FEW YEARS BACK AND I DID NOT THINK THERE WAS ANYTHING
WRONG WITH IT.
THEN I INSTALLED A NEW FUEL SELECTOR VALVE FROM NAPA.
THEN I TRIED PUTTING RUBBER FUEL LINE IN FUEL CAN THEN TO ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP(NAPA), THEN TO NEW MECHANICAL FUEL PUMP (FROM KANOMATA) TO CARB.

NO CHANGE THROUGH ANY OF THESE EFFORTS.

I PREVIOUSLY DROPPED THE TANKS BEFORE STORAGE, INSTALLED REBUILT ORIGINAL FUEL SENDERS WITH NEW SOCKS, TANKS WERE CLEANED, REINSTALLED TANKS CHANGING
SOME, BUT NOT ALL, RUBBER LINES DUE TO EFFECTS OF ETHANOL(THOUGH I DID NOT SEE ANYTHING WRONG WITH EXISTING LINES).
MY FUEL GAUGES STOPPED WORKING BEFORE I STORED THE COACH IN HOUSTON 3 YEARS AGO BECAUSE IT WOULD NOT START TO DRIVE IT TO NEW RESIDENCE 100 MILES FROM
HOUSTON). JOHN SHARPE AND ROB CAME OUT TO HELP BUT NOTHING WORKED.
I THOUGHT FUEL GAUGE INOP CAUSED BY SENDERS BUT NOW DIFFERENT AS REPLACING SENDERS DID NOT RESTORE FUEL GAUGE OPERATION.
CHECKED SENDERS BEFORE INSTALLING ALSO.
ODDLY, FUEL SQUIRTS FROM THE PRIMARIES WHEN I MOVE THE THROTTLE WHILE OBSERVING THE CARB. THIS IMPLIES THERE IS FUEL IN THE FLOAT BOWL!!
NOW I AM THINKING IGNITION. DISTRIBUTOR IS POINTS TYPE BUT HAS THIS ELECTRONIC REPLACEMENT FOR THE POINTS. IT RAN ON THIS BEFORE STORAGE.
I HAVE CHECKED THE TIMING TWO OR THREE TIMES AS I MENTIONED IN INITIAL POSTING AND WILL RE-SET IT AGAIN TO INSURE IT IS NOT OUT.
THANKS TO ALL FOR YOU INPUT-KEEP IT COMING. Michael
 
> ...It starts with fuel poured into the carb but dies very soon after that. ...

> ...THEN I TRIED PUTTING RUBBER FUEL LINE IN FUEL CAN THEN TO ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP(NAPA), THEN TO NEW MECHANICAL FUEL PUMP (FROM KANOMATA) TO CARB.
>
> NO CHANGE THROUGH ANY OF THESE EFFORTS.
>
> ...FUEL SQUIRTS FROM THE PRIMARIES WHEN I MOVE THE THROTTLE WHILE OBSERVING THE CARB. THIS IMPLIES THERE IS FUEL IN THE FLOAT BOWL!!
> NOW I AM THINKING IGNITION. DISTRIBUTOR IS POINTS TYPE BUT HAS THIS ELECTRONIC REPLACEMENT FOR THE POINTS. IT RAN ON THIS BEFORE STORAGE.
> I HAVE CHECKED THE TIMING TWO OR THREE TIMES AS I MENTIONED IN INITIAL POSTING AND WILL RE-SET IT AGAIN TO INSURE IT IS NOT OUT.
> THANKS TO ALL FOR YOU INPUT-KEEP IT COMING. Michael
I am confused.

Does it start with fuel poured down through the carb or not? If fuel squirts from the primaries (actually the accelerator pump) when you move the
throttle, that is equivalent to pouring gas through the carb. If it ignites with one, it will ignite with the other.

Based on the fact that the carb squirts gas when you move the throttle, I am going to guess that it does NOT fire when gas is poured down its throat.

If it has spark, and gas, and both coming together at the right time, I guess your timing chain has slipped or broke.
--
73 23' Sequoia 4 Sale
73 23' CanyonLands Parts Unit 4 Sale
Upper Alabama
"Highest price does not guarantee highest quality."
 
YES, IT STARTS AND RUNS FOR 1,2 OR 3 SECONDS-DEPENDING ON HOW MUCH FUEL IS POURED IN.

AS CARB WAS JUST REBUILT, LET'S TALK ABOUT ADJUSTING THE CARB NEXT, ASSUMING IT WAS NOT SET BE J. BOUNDS' GUY DURING REBUILD.
I HAVE THE MAINTENANCE MANUAL. THX, Michael
 
> YES, IT STARTS AND RUNS FOR 1,2 OR 3 SECONDS-DEPENDING ON HOW MUCH FUEL IS POURED IN.
> AS CARB WAS JUST REBUILT, LET'S TALK ABOUT ADJUSTING THE CARB NEXT, ASSUMING IT WAS NOT SET BE J. BOUNDS' GUY DURING REBUILD.
> I HAVE THE MAINTENANCE MANUAL. THX, Michael
If the accelerator pump squirts, gas is getting to the carb. If it won't fire after that gas squirts into the manifold, that confuses me.

Maybe the jets are plugged.

If it ran 20 miles and then didn't run, its not an adjustment problem, at least not entirely. Backfiring means something was going wrong and now it
won't start which means it got worse.

Go ahead and try adjusting the carb. But I would think it needs to come apart to blow out the passages.
--
73 23' Sequoia 4 Sale
73 23' CanyonLands Parts Unit 4 Sale
Upper Alabama
"Highest price does not guarantee highest quality."
 
Remember, most carb problems are ignition related.
Jim Hupy

> > YES, IT STARTS AND RUNS FOR 1,2 OR 3 SECONDS-DEPENDING ON HOW MUCH FUEL
> IS POURED IN.
> > AS CARB WAS JUST REBUILT, LET'S TALK ABOUT ADJUSTING THE CARB NEXT,
> ASSUMING IT WAS NOT SET BE J. BOUNDS' GUY DURING REBUILD.
> > I HAVE THE MAINTENANCE MANUAL. THX, Michael
> If the accelerator pump squirts, gas is getting to the carb. If it won't
> fire after that gas squirts into the manifold, that confuses me.
>
> Maybe the jets are plugged.
>
> If it ran 20 miles and then didn't run, its not an adjustment problem, at
> least not entirely. Backfiring means something was going wrong and now it
> won't start which means it got worse.
>
> Go ahead and try adjusting the carb. But I would think it needs to come
> apart to blow out the passages.
> --
> 73 23' Sequoia 4 Sale
> 73 23' CanyonLands Parts Unit 4 Sale
> Upper Alabama
> "Highest price does not guarantee highest quality."
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
engine flodded with gas?...Brian 77ele

________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of A.
Sent: November 1, 2016 1:25 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] I Need Some Advice

> ...It starts with fuel poured into the carb but dies very soon after that. ...

> ...THEN I TRIED PUTTING RUBBER FUEL LINE IN FUEL CAN THEN TO ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP(NAPA), THEN TO NEW MECHANICAL FUEL PUMP (FROM KANOMATA) TO CARB.
>
> NO CHANGE THROUGH ANY OF THESE EFFORTS.
>
> ...FUEL SQUIRTS FROM THE PRIMARIES WHEN I MOVE THE THROTTLE WHILE OBSERVING THE CARB. THIS IMPLIES THERE IS FUEL IN THE FLOAT BOWL!!
> NOW I AM THINKING IGNITION. DISTRIBUTOR IS POINTS TYPE BUT HAS THIS ELECTRONIC REPLACEMENT FOR THE POINTS. IT RAN ON THIS BEFORE STORAGE.
> I HAVE CHECKED THE TIMING TWO OR THREE TIMES AS I MENTIONED IN INITIAL POSTING AND WILL RE-SET IT AGAIN TO INSURE IT IS NOT OUT.
> THANKS TO ALL FOR YOU INPUT-KEEP IT COMING. Michael
I am confused.

Does it start with fuel poured down through the carb or not? If fuel squirts from the primaries (actually the accelerator pump) when you move the
throttle, that is equivalent to pouring gas through the carb. If it ignites with one, it will ignite with the other.

Based on the fact that the carb squirts gas when you move the throttle, I am going to guess that it does NOT fire when gas is poured down its throat.

If it has spark, and gas, and both coming together at the right time, I guess your timing chain has slipped or broke.
--
73 23' Sequoia 4 Sale
73 23' CanyonLands Parts Unit 4 Sale
Upper Alabama
"Highest price does not guarantee highest quality."

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Michael,
Just call me so I can show you to do the auto choke.

On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 12:31 PM, Michael Bozardt
wrote:

> YES, IT STARTS AND RUNS FOR 1,2 OR 3 SECONDS-DEPENDING ON HOW MUCH FUEL IS
> POURED IN.
>
> AS CARB WAS JUST REBUILT, LET'S TALK ABOUT ADJUSTING THE CARB NEXT,
> ASSUMING IT WAS NOT SET BE J. BOUNDS' GUY DURING REBUILD.
> I HAVE THE MAINTENANCE MANUAL. THX, Michael
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
 
> Remember, most carb problems are ignition related.
> Jim Hupy
Ignition problems don't vanish when you pour gas down its throat.
--
73 23' Sequoia 4 Sale
73 23' CanyonLands Parts Unit 4 Sale
Upper Alabama
"Highest price does not guarantee highest quality."
 
> engine flodded with gas?...Brian 77ele
Pouring gas down the barrels doesn't cure flooding.
--
73 23' Sequoia 4 Sale
73 23' CanyonLands Parts Unit 4 Sale
Upper Alabama
"Highest price does not guarantee highest quality."
 
Remember, he has had the distributor out of the engine! Just Saying.
Jim Hupy

> > Remember, most carb problems are ignition related.
> > Jim Hupy
> Ignition problems don't vanish when you pour gas down its throat.
> --
> 73 23' Sequoia 4 Sale
> 73 23' CanyonLands Parts Unit 4 Sale
> Upper Alabama
> "Highest price does not guarantee highest quality."
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
> Remember, he has had the distributor out of the engine! Just Saying.
> Jim Hupy
I don't know everything automotive. So maybe you can help me understand how it runs for a few seconds when he pours gas down the barrels if it is an
ignition problem?
--
73 23' Sequoia 4 Sale
73 23' CanyonLands Parts Unit 4 Sale
Upper Alabama
"Highest price does not guarantee highest quality."
 
I was just going by his narrative. When I read it, I understood the
sequence was: 1. It tried to start. 2 He poured fuel into carb, and it ran
breifly. 3. He removed the distributor. 4 engine no longer runs or tries to
start. Am I missing the sequence?
Jim Hupy

> > Remember, he has had the distributor out of the engine! Just Saying.
> > Jim Hupy
> I don't know everything automotive. So maybe you can help me understand
> how it runs for a few seconds when he pours gas down the barrels if it is an
> ignition problem?
> --
> 73 23' Sequoia 4 Sale
> 73 23' CanyonLands Parts Unit 4 Sale
> Upper Alabama
> "Highest price does not guarantee highest quality."
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
> I was just going by his narrative. When I read it, I understood the sequence was: 1. It tried to start. 2 He poured fuel into carb, and it ran
> breifly. 3. He removed the distributor. 4 engine no longer runs or tries to start. Am I missing the sequence?
> Jim Hupy

> YES, IT STARTS AND RUNS FOR 1,2 OR 3 SECONDS-DEPENDING ON HOW MUCH FUEL IS POURED IN.
> AS CARB WAS JUST REBUILT, LET'S TALK ABOUT ADJUSTING THE CARB NEXT, ASSUMING IT WAS NOT SET BE J. BOUNDS' GUY DURING REBUILD.
> I HAVE THE MAINTENANCE MANUAL. THX, Michael

--
73 23' Sequoia 4 Sale
73 23' CanyonLands Parts Unit 4 Sale
Upper Alabama
"Highest price does not guarantee highest quality."
 
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