House Batteries

[mr.c]

Two 6 volt batteries put out (if they are high quality) about 100 amps
which is enough to run the 12 needs of the coach. I do not recommend the
big 12v. You want a deep cycle battery. I think the golf cart batteries
are made to be charged and put out their full compliment for a longer time.

hope that helps.
al

> Hi All,
>
> I'm hoping for some advice/information concerning house batteries. I've
> recently been informed of three things by three different people:
>
> 1) I should get two 6 volt golf cart batteries.
> 2) I should get one BIG 12 volt battery.
> 3) I should get two large gel batteries.
>
> Try as I may, I am unable to find room for all seven batteries and
> therefore need to choose only one of these options. Seriously, I'm
> confused by all that I've heard. What are the pros and cons of these
> batteries? How do you decide which is the best option? I expect to be
> installing a Statpower Truecharge 40 or 40+ and will often dry camp
> three or four days. I have the 6000w Onan. Thanks.
>
> Roy Cummings
> '75 Eleganza
> Arlington, VA

 

[roy cummings]

Hi All,

I'm hoping for some advice/information concerning house batteries. I've
recently been informed of three things by three different people:

1) I should get two 6 volt golf cart batteries.
2) I should get one BIG 12 volt battery.
3) I should get two large gel batteries.

Try as I may, I am unable to find room for all seven batteries and
therefore need to choose only one of these options. Seriously, I'm
confused by all that I've heard. What are the pros and cons of these
batteries? How do you decide which is the best option? I expect to be
installing a Statpower Truecharge 40 or 40+ and will often dry camp
three or four days. I have the 6000w Onan. Thanks.

Roy Cummings
'75 Eleganza
Arlington, VA

 

[john wright]

Roy,
I have a Statpower Truecharge 40 that I installed this spring. I have 2
Interstate 6 volt golf cart batteries model 220 AH batteries. The
Trojan T-105 is also a good battery. The Truecharge 40 is impressive and
it just takes care of the batteries. I do an equalization charge about
every 3 months. You can find the truecharge at this site. I got mine
for under $150 US before they raised the price. They now sell for about
$199 US. Does everything that your GMC needs, has 2 outputs, I only use
one. Go to:
http://cs2.bctel.ca/stat/product.asp?pf_id=904%2D0400&mscs_sid=U84EA49H9SSH2JQR00G7BV23EL5X4CRL


I also have the remote panel and temp monitor. You can buy them cheaper
from West Marine 1-800-937-8895. Remote panel for $29.99 part
and the temp sensor $29.99 part

The cost of the gel batteries will be 5 to 7 times more expensive than
the flooded batteries, and AGM batteries are more expensive than the Gel style.

The choice is yours on how much you want to spend. Most of the GMC'ers
I know use the dual 6 volt golf cart setup with out problems. Your
electrical system is like anything else. You must service and take care
of it and it will provide long service.

J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLakers
77 Eleganza II
Michigan

>
> Hi All,
>
> I'm hoping for some advice/information concerning house batteries. I've
> recently been informed of three things by three different people:
>
> 1) I should get two 6 volt golf cart batteries.
> 2) I should get one BIG 12 volt battery.
> 3) I should get two large gel batteries.
>
> Try as I may, I am unable to find room for all seven batteries and
> therefore need to choose only one of these options. Seriously, I'm
> confused by all that I've heard. What are the pros and cons of these
> batteries? How do you decide which is the best option? I expect to be
> installing a Statpower Truecharge 40 or 40+ and will often dry camp
> three or four days. I have the 6000w Onan. Thanks.
>
> Roy Cummings
> '75 Eleganza
> Arlington, VA

 

[heinz wittenbecher]

Roy,
I've done it all... or almost anyways.

My current setup is 2 6-volt golf carts and they appear to be providing
better power longer. They have only been in a few months but will be cheaper
to replace than gelcells and require no fuss to charge.

Collect all opinions and then full speed ahead....

My 2 cents.

Heinz

P.S. When I redid my batteries I found that the House and Boost were
actually connected in parallel. NOT GOOD. Be sure the batteries are all
isolated under use. I'm sure the setup cost me a few batteries over the
years. Now everything is isolated and connected via 2 combiners when there
is sufficient juice to charge.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Roy Cummings
To: gmcmotorhome
Date: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 6:55 PM
Subject: GMC: House Batteries

>Hi All,
>
>I'm hoping for some advice/information concerning house batteries. I've
>recently been informed of three things by three different people:
>
>1) I should get two 6 volt golf cart batteries.
>2) I should get one BIG 12 volt battery.
>3) I should get two large gel batteries.
>
>Try as I may, I am unable to find room for all seven batteries and
>therefore need to choose only one of these options. Seriously, I'm
>confused by all that I've heard. What are the pros and cons of these
>batteries? How do you decide which is the best option? I expect to be
>installing a Statpower Truecharge 40 or 40+ and will often dry camp
>three or four days. I have the 6000w Onan. Thanks.
>
>Roy Cummings
>'75 Eleganza
>Arlington, VA
>

 

[dave1]

>Hi All,
>
>I'm hoping for some advice/information concerning house batteries. I've
>recently been informed of three things by three different people:
>
>1) I should get two 6 volt golf cart batteries.

I am using four of the 6 volt golf cart batteries. They are cheap, durable
and readily avalable. I also use a Todd 75amp battery charger. I can charge
the batteries at 50-60 amps while dry camping. A couple hours a day on the
Onan is all it takes to keep them topped off. I typically run the Onan
while cooking so I can use the microwave, toaster, coffee pot etc. Thats
usually enough.

I still have the original Norcold 12v refrigerator so thats why my power
usage is so high. But with the dual battery bank (440ah total) it doesn't
discharge that much in a day and accepts a high charge rate when charging.

Also, when I ordered my charger I got the higher voltage one (designed for
NiCad batteries) so I could add a battery isolator to the circuit. That way
I can keep the motor battery charged as well as the house batteries. Works
great as a backup power source if the alternator on the 455 fails too.

The Todd charger has a remote sense feature so it can measure the voltage
right at the batteries. I added a switch to the sense line so I can switch
the sense circuit between the output of the charger and the input of the
battery. This acts as a "boost" switch for those times when I want to
charge the house batteries quickly or perform an equalizing charge on them.

So far this system seems to be working pretty good. My (Exide) golf cart
batteries are 7 years old and still kicking out enough juice to keep
everything happy while dry camping. The only down side is that the Todd
charger is not power-factor corrected. That makes it a bit rough on the
Onan. It draws 1000+ watts when running at full output so I cant run both
air conditioners and boost the batteries at the same time. But it is
possible that the newer chargers now have power-factor correction. Haven't
looked lately to see whats new out there.

Dave
73 Sequoia

 

[wayne newland]

Roy

You have an expert almost as a next door neighbor. Call Leigh Harrison in
Woodbridge, Va. If you can't find his number, e me back and I'll find his
ad. Be prepared to get really tech (if you want to). If he offers, drive
his coach. It's an experience.

Wayne Newland F9300 75 Palm Beach Columbia, Md.

PS. I haven't looked, but, are you a member of Tidewater Crabs? Leigh is.
The Crabs are having a GMC Rally in Bealton, Va at The Flying Circus, Aug
19-20-21. You will get lots of op's there. Norman Dubner will probably be
there, also.

> Hi All,
>
> I'm hoping for some advice/information concerning house batteries. I've
> recently been informed of three things by three different people:
>
> 1) I should get two 6 volt golf cart batteries.
> 2) I should get one BIG 12 volt battery.
> 3) I should get two large gel batteries.
>
> Try as I may, I am unable to find room for all seven batteries and
> therefore need to choose only one of these options. Seriously, I'm
> confused by all that I've heard. What are the pros and cons of these
> batteries? How do you decide which is the best option? I expect to be
> installing a Statpower Truecharge 40 or 40+ and will often dry camp
> three or four days. I have the 6000w Onan. Thanks.
>
> Roy Cummings
> '75 Eleganza
> Arlington, VA

 

[bartz paul]

Dave:

What does "power factor correction" do for the system?

Paul Bartz

From: Dave [mailtoGMDGM]
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: GMC: House Batteries

>Hi All,
>
>I'm hoping for some advice/information concerning house batteries. I've
>recently been informed of three things by three different people:
>
>1) I should get two 6 volt golf cart batteries.

I am using four of the 6 volt golf cart batteries. They are cheap, durable
and readily avalable. I also use a Todd 75amp battery charger. I can charge
the batteries at 50-60 amps while dry camping. A couple hours a day on the
Onan is all it takes to keep them topped off. I typically run the Onan
while cooking so I can use the microwave, toaster, coffee pot etc. Thats
usually enough.

I still have the original Norcold 12v refrigerator so thats why my power
usage is so high. But with the dual battery bank (440ah total) it doesn't
discharge that much in a day and accepts a high charge rate when charging.

Also, when I ordered my charger I got the higher voltage one (designed for
NiCad batteries) so I could add a battery isolator to the circuit. That way
I can keep the motor battery charged as well as the house batteries. Works
great as a backup power source if the alternator on the 455 fails too.

The Todd charger has a remote sense feature so it can measure the voltage
right at the batteries. I added a switch to the sense line so I can switch
the sense circuit between the output of the charger and the input of the
battery. This acts as a "boost" switch for those times when I want to
charge the house batteries quickly or perform an equalizing charge on them.

So far this system seems to be working pretty good. My (Exide) golf cart
batteries are 7 years old and still kicking out enough juice to keep
everything happy while dry camping. The only down side is that the Todd
charger is not power-factor corrected. That makes it a bit rough on the
Onan. It draws 1000+ watts when running at full output so I cant run both
air conditioners and boost the batteries at the same time. But it is
possible that the newer chargers now have power-factor correction. Haven't
looked lately to see whats new out there.

 

[dave1]

>Dave:
>
>What does "power factor correction" do for the system?

In a battery charger the 110v sine wave input (from shore power or the
Onan) is rectified to change it from AC to DC. With no power factor
correction, current only flows at the top of the sine wave (when the input
voltage is at its peak), maybe 1/3 of the cycle. What that means is that a
device that is drawing a 10 amp average load will actually be drawing
little or nothing for 2/3 of the cycle and then 30 amps for 1/3 of the
cycle. If your power source can only produce 50 amps (like the Onan) your
10 amp load will actually be using 60% of your power source current capacity.

Power factor correction is provided by adding a circuit on the input side
of a device that averages out the current load over the whole voltage
cycle. It makes an active electronic load (like a battery charger) look
more like a resistive load. With a resistive load the current is
proportional to the voltage throughout the whole cycle.

This same problem exists with inductive loads like an air conditioner. In
that case the voltage and current are both sine waves but the current is
out of phase with the voltage. The current peak occurs after the voltage
peak. The end result is that you have higher peak currents than you would
expect given the amount of power being used.

I seem to recall something about there being a requirement that all high
power devices have power factor correction after a certain date. I don't
know if that requirement was ever enforced or if it was dropped during the
de-regulation era. But, if you have the choice of buying a device with
power factor correction vs one without, its best to choose the one with.
Especially if you are running that device from a generator.

I hope this makes sense. Its kind of hard to explain without charts, graphs
and arrows

Dave
73 Sequoia

 

[bruce herrin]

You might find the site listed below interesting. I think I'm going to
use what they term as a floor scrubber deep cycle battery when it's time
to replace. Using only 1/2 the capacity of the battery I should get
about 15 hrs at a steady 10 amp draw if I am reading the specs right.

I'm not experienced, just learning from you'all, My wife wants to go
full time in about 2 years, and I can't imagine anyone else I would want
to spend my time with.

In the process of installing disk (gusseted Caddy) brakes, Holley TBI,
Crane ignition, Bilstein shocks, Poly bushings and just some minor
updates on the interior.

Look at the site and let me know what you think.

http://www.usbattery.com/index2.htm

Bruce
77 Palm Beach
Tidewater Crabs

>Hi All,
>
>I'm hoping for some advice/information concerning house batteries.
I've
>recently been informed of three things by three different people:
>
>1) I should get two 6 volt golf cart batteries.

 

[dave1]

>... This reminds me that there are available plug in modules
>that reduce the power (or current) for motors. ... It would be
>interesting to try one of these with our roof air conditioner
>to see if it runs better. I saw them at Home Base recently.

That would be an interesting thing to try. I don't know much about them
but, from what I have read, they work best with motors that are being used
at less than their rated load. Fully loaded motors don't see much benefit
but lightly loaded motors supposedly run cooler and use less power. Any
idea what one of these cost and if they are rated high enough to use with
our AC units? I might be tempted to give it a try if the price was right.

Dave
73 Sequoia

 

[roy cummings]

Many thanks to everyone for the information on house batteries. This
GMC is my first motorhome, and the only kind I ever considered or
wanted. I hope someday to have learned enough about it so that I may be
able to answer some questions rather than just ask them! Additionally,
regarding the Tidewater Crabs Rally, I'll be there even if my GMC
isn't. I look forward to meeting a great bunch of people. Thanks
again!

Roy Cummings
'75 Eleganza
Arlington, VA

 

[richard waters]

John,
I need new house batteries. I visited the Interstate web site
http://www.interstatebatteries.com/products/product_line/industrial.htm
and can't find any batteries that fit the model that you show
"model 220 AH batteries". Am I looking in the wrong place?
I sure would appreciate any assistance you can give.
Richard Waters '76 PB, TROY, MI

> Roy,
> I have a Statpower Truecharge 40 that I installed this spring. I have 2
> Interstate 6 volt golf cart batteries model 220 AH batteries. The
> Trojan T-105 is also a good battery.

 

[gary miller]

Why not use two Interstate U 2400 batteries??? They are the same physical
size as the 2200 and 2300 but have more capicity. That's what I would do.
Gary
North Bend, Oregon Coast

> John,
> I need new house batteries. I visited the Interstate web site
> http://www.interstatebatteries.com/products/product_line/industrial.htm
> and can't find any batteries that fit the model that you show
> "model 220 AH batteries". Am I looking in the wrong place?
> I sure would appreciate any assistance you can give.
> Richard Waters '76 PB, TROY, MI
>

>
> > Roy,
> > I have a Statpower Truecharge 40 that I installed this spring. I have 2
> > Interstate 6 volt golf cart batteries model 220 AH batteries. The
> > Trojan T-105 is also a good battery.

 

[richard waters]

That's what I was thinking. On paper they look better, but then what
do I know? I still new to all this.
Richard

> Why not use two Interstate U 2400 batteries??? They are the same physical
> size as the 2200 and 2300 but have more capicity. That's what I would do.
> Gary
> North Bend, Oregon Coast
>

>
> > John,
> > I need new house batteries. I visited the Interstate web site
> > http://www.interstatebatteries.com/products/product_line/industrial.htm
> > and can't find any batteries that fit the model that you show
> > "model 220 AH batteries". Am I looking in the wrong place?
> > I sure would appreciate any assistance you can give.
> > Richard Waters '76 PB, TROY, MI
> >

> >
> > > Roy,
> > > I have a Statpower Truecharge 40 that I installed this spring. I have 2
> > > Interstate 6 volt golf cart batteries model 220 AH batteries. The
> > > Trojan T-105 is also a good battery.

 

[richard waters]

Arch,
I seem to have the same problem. I forget to turn stuff off like
the light in the bathroom. Or the porch light. So my batteries have
a short life. Actually, it's not me that does it, its the other family
members. I can't complain too much to them or they will stop
coming with me!

I was at Sam's club the other day and saw their golf cart batteries.
They seem like a good deal at less then $45, but then again I don't
really know. I don't know how much the Interstate battery cost and
I don't know a good place to buy them. I hate paying full price like
everyone else here!

I planned on installing a fuse on the ground side right at the
batteries, so if they overload, the circuit is history. I found one at
Grainer's that should work. I think that is less costly then a big
breaker. I read that in one of my books, "Managing 12 Volts"
if I recall correctly.
Thanks for the added insight,
Richard

> In a message dated 8/19/99 8:04:29 PM Central Daylight Time, digitek

>
> > John,
> > I need new house batteries. I visited the Interstate web site
> > http://www.interstatebatteries.com/products/product_line/industrial.htm
> > and can't find any batteries that fit the model that you show
> > "model 220 AH batteries". Am I looking in the wrong place?
> > I sure would appreciate any assistance you can give.
> >
> Richard
>
> Interstate and Trojan are both good batteries. My problem is I kill
> house batteries in about the same amount of time no matter how good
> they are. Leave that one light on while your are gone and deeply
> discharge it and you have mortally wounded it. Now maybe with my
> fancy 40 plus this will be another story. Lately I have been having good
> luck with the golf cart batteries sold by Sams. At $45 they are about half
> price of others. Thats what I have done.
>
> I must ask another question. All of you putting in these chargers. Are you
> putting in a circuit breaker close to the battery? I ran a cable from the
> charger
> to the house battery and auto battery and put in a breaker about 18
> inches from the battery. I had some private mail that thought this was
> silly. Well, if that cable ever shorts out I dont think you will find it
> silly.
>
> Take Care
> Arch

 

[richard waters]

Arch,
This could be debated. The book I was referring actually is
"RV Electrical Systems" page 96. The author talks about a disaster
fuse. He says that the "disaster fuse should be mounted on the negative
line going from the battery bank's minus post to the chassis ground
post." He goes on and says further that "a similar fuse should be in
the positive line from an inverter or converter/charger of a size
no larger then 125 percent of the current draw of the equipment."
Does that mean we are both right?
Richard

> In a message dated 8/19/99 10:20:40 PM Central Daylight Time,

>
> > planned on installing a fuse on the ground side right at the
> > batteries, so if they overload, the circuit is history. I found one at
> > Grainer's that should work. I think that is less costly then a big
> > breaker. I read that in one of my books, "Managing 12 Volts"
> > if I recall correctly.
> > Thanks for the added insight,
> > Richard
>
> Richard
>
> I dont know I am just going on what West Marine told me and then
> confirmed in the book Managing 12V---put it in the positive side.
>
> Take Care
> Arch

 

[richard waters]

Arch,
That's what is so good about this forum. We get to see a variety
of opinions. This stuff makes me reread the books and other
references to make sure I understand the concepts.

To be honest, I have not completely thought this thing through. I
just know that there should be a fuse or breaker someplace near
the batteries to shut everything down in the event there is a short
in the DC system.

I've gotten real interested in this lately because the other day I saw
the debris of a SOB motorhome that was burned to the ground because
of a fire. I was told the fire was caused by a short in the DC electrical
system because nothing was running and the coach was not connected to
shore power. Maybe it was and maybe it wasn't caused by a short, but
it made me wonder about my coach. Since I am going to be getting
new house batteries anyway, this would be a good time to work on that
system.

According to how I read the schematic in the service manual there
is a 60 amp breaker for the house batteries and fusible links for the
starting battery. I don't not have the inverter and TC40 charger
fused right now. I'm going to fuse them on the "+" side near the
battery.

Since I like the idea of a "disaster fuse" I think I'm still going to install
a big fuse on the "-" side right next to each battery bank to use as a
backup to the fusible links and breakers on the "+" side. Is this
overkill and a waste of time and money? I don't know, but I am
pretty sure if that big fuse on the "-" blows there won't be any current
flowing out the "+" side through the heavy gage cables. Right now
I'm mostly concerned about possible shorts in the heavy gage "+" cables
to the inverter and charger. Everything else is pretty well protected.

Then there is the question of do I use fuses or breakers for the inverter and
charger. I don't know the answer to that one either.

I wonder what others have done. I'm just fishing for information
here and have no opinions on what is right except that as a minimum
I need a fuses for the inverter and charger on the "+" side near the
batteries. That's because both units are currently connected directly
to the batteries with heavy gage wire.

Richard Waters

> In a message dated 8/19/99 11:00:53 PM Central Daylight Time,

>
> > Arch,
> > This could be debated. The book I was referring actually is
> > "RV Electrical Systems" page 96. The author talks about a disaster
> > fuse.
> Richard
>
> You are right this could be debated. I like mine in the positive side. Now
> I could be talked into one in the negative side if all else fails. I will put
> in
> smaller ones to protect the load I have. The larger one in the negative one
> just does not appeal to me. This does not mean you should not do it------
> I just dont like it------my hang-up. Anytime I have a hot lead leaving a
> battery
> on a RV I like a fuse or breaker. If you look at high amperage breakers you
> will see that they take some time to react 1 min or so. Put that in a neg.
> side
> and some small wire will light off before the breaker will blow. Just not my
> style. I am not saying you are wrong-----just not the way I would do it.
>
> Take Care
> Arch

 

[blank]

>
> I can see
> why you want to put in a large "disaster fuse" in the negative side
> of the line. If it makes you sleep better DO IT! The only problem
> I see is that by the time you get one big enough to hold the load
> it is going to take a long time to blow. By that time smaller wires
> may well be burning.

Proper application dictates that each circuit be correctly fused for the
wire gauge used. If you have a small wire fused only by a master fuse(or
breaker - I'll use the term interchangabley here), that's a recipe for
disaster. Master fuses should only be used to protect runs of heavy cable
in the event of a short. The only advantage that I see to fusing the ground
cable would be in the event that some poor wrench twister(likely yours
truly) gets careless and grounds a wrench across the positive battery
terminal. My father badly burned his wrist a few years back when his
watchband became part of a short circuit(hurts now to think about it) in a
variation of this scenario.

Patrick

 

[donald w. miller]

Hi Richard,

I have a Blue Seas fuse holder with 250 amp fuse at my house batteries.
Purchased it from West Marine.

As others point out, it's primary job is to protect the big wire and
inverter.

Reasonable cost protection seems a wise investment .................. in my
not so humble opinion.

Don Miller
75 project
Shenandoah Valley of Virginia

> I wonder what others have done. I'm just fishing for information
> here and have no opinions on what is right except that as a minimum
> I need a fuses for the inverter and charger on the "+" side near the
> batteries. That's because both units are currently connected directly
> to the batteries with heavy gage wire.
>
> Richard Waters