High Pucker Factor Moment..

j dexter

New member
Jun 5, 2000
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Salutations:

Pleased to know I haven't scared people away from the province, I figure it's always better to be as frank as possible and try apologize if I offend anyone.. At least that way, people have some faith that I'm at least trying to speak the truth as I see it..

Anyway, on the subject of 'visual paradise - roads from hell' in Nova Scotia.. visitors will mostly find the primary highways pretty good (the twined major highways are in particularly good shape depending on which way you are traveling) - however, the secondary roads you need to take to get anywhere interesting in Nova Scotia are increasingly in need of repair and best traveled in off hours (late at night, mid morning/afternoon, sunrise).. because you'd have to be really confident or really crazy to run them at anymore than about 40 mph (about 70 kph)..

A good tip in Canada is that they post longer secondary roads at 90 kph - which you should take as about the number of days it's gonna take for someone to drive by and find you and yours.. Moreover - I happen to know as a fact that they only put curve signage or guard rails up when there has already been an incident that required them.. If they are showing you a guard rail or up-coming turn - check your speed..

This isn't as big a deal in Nova Scotia as it would seem as the province is very small by Canadian standards - I usually describe the mileage from Halifax N.S. to Toronto Ontario (sort of north east of Detroit) as about the same as driving from Paris to Moscow (one of the reasons they are miserly with signage up here I think)..

But Nova Scotia can be crossed from Atlantic to Bay of Funday in about 45 minutes depending on the route you choose.. which is paramount regarding safe navigation of the elephant as most of the interior secondary highways were put in in the '40's to haul lumber out and are still in use by heavy lumber/mining trucks who tend to leave the pavement crushed fairly deeply..

This is exacerbated by what I think is the worst frost/heave cycle on the planet..

For those of you unfamiliar with the term, frost/heave happens when ground water under the pavement freezes and expands (pushing boulders and stuff upwards) then thaws out, turning all the supporting soil under the roadway to soft pudding - which lets the boulders and stuff sink again but leave shallow water puddles as the only supporting substructure under the pavement - the practical upshot of which is that you get really deep potholes and long deep trenching on the pavement when a heavy loaded truck passes over.. This trenching is not at all like 'rutting' which usually happens under both wheels on an older highway.. and in Nova Scotia I have crossed a perfectly repaired stretch of road, flat as a billiard table in the fall - and returned in the spring to find the same stretch of road literally unpassable as we will do a freeze/thaw cycle here about 10-15 times over the course of a winter..

Typical Maritime Frost/heave trenching will see about a 50 foot long 6 inch deep (rounded on the sides) trench under your 'Oh My God' seat then some light left/right mogaling (like ski hill stuff) - then another 50 foot long 6 inch deep trench on the drivers side.. usually followed by a set of flat dips and rises in series that usually close with a really tremendous pothole or pavement 'curl' (when the pavement pushes up like a small wave on the ocean) at the end.. All of which is why we have named our GMC 'The Elephant' - because running these kinda roads makes our GMC look exactly like a elephant walking through the forest.. anyway..

Most of the these roads have about a 2 or 3 inch drop between the pavement and the shoulder gravel - which brings us to my 'High Pucker Factor moment' (a motorcycling term related to the remarkable suction power your backside can produce in certain riding situations)..

I was making my way back from Five Islands/Economy on the north side of the Bay of Funday and was running through a trench (I have worked out that if I don't fight it to much - it tends to self correct) - when I got my first GMC driving surprise.. I was on a left hand sweep onto a small bridge when, first, my rears then my front passenger side tires got hooked over the shoulder.. I had read in '75 popular mechanix owners report that this shoulder situation was 'exciting'.. which I think was a bit of an understatement..

While I was saying 'whoa-whoa-whoa-whoa' (which, I gotta tell ya spooks the passengers quiet a bit) - I tried to slowly coax the front wheels out without oversteering as I was worried that I would get the front wheels heeled over too far - then eject from the shoulder like a whale breaching, catch the front wheels funny and roll my elephant over between the bridge abutment like a cork in a bottle (yes, I think this all happened over a 4-6 second period - but that's a lot of time to think in the circumstance).. Finally, the shoulder seem to let go and I got back into the trench and crossed the bridge with about 20 feet to spare.. But I can assure you good folks that I don't think I was in full control for much of the exercise..

I realize that asking for written advise about driving technique is kinda like asking someone to do interpretive dance about architecture.. but if you have any simple advise I could put in the emergency brain rolodex - I (as would Mrs. D and the kids) would be greatly in your debt.. Something that rhymes with 'whoa' would be nice..

So, for travellers - general roads in Nova Scotia are not a problem, nor the major highways and where we travel may not typical but the really out of the way places - which is to say where we want to go - should be run at lower speeds than posted and any signs you happen to see on 90 kph roads are there because someone who drove before you on that road needed a sign or guard rail and didn't have one..

your pal
J Dexter
 
> frost/heave happens when ground water under the pavement freezes and expands (pushing > boulders and stuff upwards)

Water under the pavement freezes? Gosh, I'm glad we don't
allow that in my neighborhood.

Walt Taylor
Austin, TX
'75 Eleganza
 
>
> Walt: you know you can stand up to your waist in water and have dust blow in
> your eyes in Austin. There is no state bigger than Texas in an ice storm and
> frozen roads in a motorhome. Take it from us that have been there. So don't
> brag. Dean Hanson

Well, at least we have the proper infrastructure to deal
with icy roads - a fireplace and a wood pile. Stay home and
feed the fireplace until it thaws. Don't try to drive in
that stuff.

Walt
 
> I'll come by your house. Dean

We have to keep up with the weather forecasts. I'll need to
be sure my GMC is offsite. Only have room for one in the
drive, and a GMC would be a big target for the cars bouncing
off the curbs while trying to go down our street. Sure
wouldn't want to have one in the street, unless we could
come up with some innovative protection (you know, like a
temporary car-sized trench all the way around it!).

Walt
 
gSalutations:

Thx Walt, I am running fresh michelins all around (one of the first things I had to replace on the re-hab - mine were ten years old according to the tire code) and so far I like them as well..

So I am correct to - not - to try to climb out of a ridge quickly, but rather, should try to make the recovery maneuver as gently as possible given conditions and upcoming obstacles?.. (another second or so and I would have had to cut the wheel sharply as the bridge was rapidly going to make my decision for me)..

I really love the drive characteristics on my elephant and while I am running some really out of the way roads, I am starting to understand that it moves much like a locomotive in the sense that gentle handling is always best.. However, I would like to get a handle on what happens when I have to jack it hard before I actually have too.. Have you ever had to perform a violent avoidance maneuver yet? If so, what was the fallout and did it behave as expected?

I am posting this back to listserver because I think it might be an interesting non-techincal thread and hope you won't mind.. I'm a relative newbie on this ride (this is my first motorhome - I got lucky and choose a GMC) and I think we are keeping this one on the road until Mrs D' cashs me in for the insurance..

"If you can still hear him snoring... You are not holding the pillow down hard enough.."

your pal
J Dexter

>
> Mr. Dexter,
>
> I appreciate all your sage advises on highway conditions
> there. I still have the pleasure of personal experience to
> anticipate, as it's a bit of trip to Canada, and I have only
> driven my elephant in the Western provinces.
>
> Personally, I find driving to be more pleasant if I keep all
> six of the GMC's wheels, and additionally the two or four of
> the inevitable trailer, on the pavement at all times.
>
> Sounds like you have a reasonable recovery technique. I like
> the response of Michelins in the situation of
> ridge-climbing, but that may be only personal preference. I
> try to avoid getting too much angle on the front wheels, but
> let opportunity dictate where it climbs back to the paved surface.
>
> Once, in the rain, I pulled out to pass another vehicle (on
> a four-lane divided highway) and immediately came upon a
> construction area, where our skilled crews had paved strips
> down the left and right margins, leaving the center of the
> two lanes (about ten feet wide) at a level at least six
> inches lower than the edge strips. I was effectively
> trapped. I tried starting from one edge of the valley, and
> striking the ridge at as much angle as I thooght I could
> recover from without going off the road, but my elephant
> just wouldn't scale that edge. After two attempts, I gave it
> up, and ran down the valley, straddling the two lines, until
> I came to the end of the new pavement. Not a terrifying
> situation, but I was embarassed to be taking up both lanes,
> and unable to escape.
>
>
> Walt Taylor
> Austin, TX
> '75 Eleganza
 
ummmm...or, ho? :o

Bill Tyrrell

>
> In a message dated 8/21/00 3:19:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

>
> >
>
> How about slow?
 
i'd sure like to see this......"I can haul my 1000cc road rocket to a
complete stop from 75mph in about 25 feet"

> -----Original Message-----
> From: J Dexter [mailto:webmaster]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 10:02 AM
> To: walt.taylor; gmcmotorhome
> Subject: Re: GMC: High
>
>
 
Salutations:

Thx Walt, I appreciate your details and will try to remember as needed.. It is remarkable what comes to mind in the few seconds after something starts going strange while driving.. I expect this will flip up in the brain rolodex fairly quickly.. I am again copying the list server as I'm sure there are others who want to know..

Bill, I don't know about your Missus, but if I started to yell 'Ho! - Ho! - Ho!' while driving down the road - Mrs. D' would indeed be returning me for the deposit.. At the very least I would be sleeping on the dining davo fold out for the weekend.. :) ..

Nate, wish I could claim credit - but I think I saw it on a bumper sticker a when I was making the run to Toronto on my motorbike.. Part of the great trick if you are riding three seasons here is to tuck in very closely behind larger trucks and trailers (the lower to the ground the better) to cut the spring or winter chill.. There is a almost static pocket of air just behind bigger trailers (ahead of the leading edge of the draft - but no more than 6 feet off the rear bumper) which can keep a rider mostly out of the elements and doesn't buffet you around much at highway speeds.. Hence I tend to read everything on the back of the rig a couple of times..

It's a somewhat tiring way to ride however as you really have to pay attention to the thing you are following when your front wheel is like 3 feet off the rear end. You run a big risk of catching debris or face planting on the rear deck in the event or sudden stops even if you are paying attention.. The trade off is - freeze to death riding down the road -vs.- rear-ending whatever you are tucked way too closely behind.. However, I most found that the big-rig guys would see me (I would duck out every so often to catch their eye) and usually they start tapping brakes in advance of stops..

I had a RCMP officer stop me once, but after I explained what I was doing and why - he let me go with a warning and directions to a cheap motel up the road a bit.. His greatest concern was that the air-braked trucks could stop a lot fast than I could - but then I showed him the big 3 AMA cast iron super disks and my fresh venom tires and he was cool.. I can haul my 1000cc road rocket to a complete stop from 75mph in about 25 feet if I'm careful and road conditions are good..

The RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) highway patrol guys are actually pretty good that way - they are federal police force up here and much better trained and flexible to driving/riding realities if explained politely.. If they've righteously caught you speeding - agree with them outright and apologize and they usually knock a couple of mph off the ticket too.. Try to wiggle and they show no mercy however, they don't respond well at all to crap like "my speedo says.." But I once got a complete pass on a 10mph transgression when I opened my window and young MacKenzie howling in the back seat.. The officer stood bolt upright, offered a salute and said "you've got enough pain in your day son - take it easy from here".. Which was really kuel I thought..

The Provincial guys are also OK as a rule - but I've dealt with some officers in Quebec who really should consider dropping some of the caffeine from their diet or eating less red meat or something..

Off for Yarmouth NS this weekend - road-report to follow..

your pal
J Dexter

>

>
> > So I am correct to - not - to try to climb out of a ridge quickly, but
> rather, should > try to make the recovery maneuver as gently as possible
> given conditions and upcoming > obstacles?.. (another second or so and I
> would have had to cut the wheel sharply as > > the bridge was rapidly going
> to make my decision for me)..
> >
> I might horse it a bit to arrest the motion off the
> pavement, but I would sure try to let it stabilize and have
> a small angle of attack before climbing the ridge to get
> back up on the pavement.
>
> > Have you ever had to perform a violent avoidance maneuver yet? If so,
> what was the > > fallout and did it behave as expected?
> >
> I was in a shallow, sweeping, downhill left-hand bend when a
> car ran a stop and came out in front of me. I braked a bit
> and then detoured through an empty parking lot to my right.
> I cut it hard enough that the trailer pushed the rear-end of
> the coach out more than it would have gone on its own, and
> required some opposite steering to get it back. I think that
> has been my only really serious 10-wheel drift in the GMC.
> There were some utility poles and other things to make a
> chicane entering the parking lot, and it wasn't big enough
> to stop in, but everything worked out OK. It responded
> pretty much as expected and wanted. Another time I went down
> a fork to the right when I found the trailer brakes were no
> longer working, a traffic light turned red, and I was again
> going downhill, but that didn't require any noteworthy maneuvering.
>
> I've had both feet on the brake pedal a couple of times, but
> I've never made a max-effort stop from speed. In the two
> cases above, I don't think anything would have had enough
> braking to stop, and all the other cases didn't require
> continuous max-effort.
>
> Walt Taylor
> Austin, TX
> '75 Eleganza