HEI distributor and oil cooler??

R

ralph d. edelbach

New member
Nov 30, 1997
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I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has replaced the old points
& condenser distributor system on their 455 with something more
up-to-date and would like to share their experiences. Some type of HEI
system sounds the best to me but what units have you found to be good?
Sources?????

I'm trying to get some of the "little" things done before traveling this
summer so I am presently replacing the carpets, installing a new sink
and stove as well as putting in front seats from a Plymouth Voyager.
The power driver's seat is really nice and I know it is comfortable
since one of my family cars is a 1990 Voyager with the same seats. Just
have to raise the driver's one about 1.5 inches to get into the ideal
range. I'm also going to fabricate steel posts to hold the shoulder
harnesses on both sides so we're not just relying on the lap belts.
Lots of little things to do but that is fun ---- at least so far.

Also, anyone have a good oil-cooler set-up to recommend? Seems as it
that would be a good addition but any thoughts would be appreciated.
 
>
> I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has replaced the old
> points & condenser distributor system on their 455 with something
> more up-to-date and would like to share their experiences. Some type
> of HEI system sounds the best to me but what units have you found to
> be good?
> Sources?????

An HEI distributor out of any later model Olds V8 will work fine. Pick
one up at an auto recycler or a new one from GM. There are also several
aftermarket HEI distributors available(MSD, Accel, etc.). You may need
to "adjust"(using ball peen hammer) the profile of your aircleaner
slightly to clear the slightly larger HEI distributor.

> Also, anyone have a good oil-cooler set-up to recommend? Seems as it
> that would be a good addition but any thoughts would be appreciated.

Do you mean in addition to the stock oil cooler? I've never heard
anyone say it wasn't adequate. I'd just be sure the oil cooler lines
have been recently replaced with aeroquip or similar hoses(eliminate the
steel lines under the exhaust manifold).

Patrick
- --
Patrick Flowers
Mailto:patri63

The GMC Motorhome Page
http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
 
Ralph:

I know of several choices you can research to upgrade to an HEI
equivalent.

One is MSD in El Paso TX. They are a well respected name in performance
ignition products and can be found in a store that sells automotive
performance parts. Their Web address is: http://www.msdignition.com.
You can even electronically request their catalog.

The other is from Dick Paterson, who owns Dick Paterson Pontiac Buick
Cadillac (http://www.paterson-gmc.com/~gmc/motorhome.html), located in
Orilla Canada, which is N of Toronto. He also owns a GMC coach.

At the GMCMI NH Rally last September, he brought a number of
distributors to sell and he also conducted a seminar on
overhauling/rebuilding the GMC engines, which they specialize in. I'm
not sure if he is using new or refurbished/remanufactures distributors
or not. He puts in a module that provides more advance than original.
I sent him an e-mail to get more info and the rationale for more
advance. Suspect he is attending the Las Vegas GMCMI Rally this week?

Don't know if you saw and/or saved an e-mail I sent a week or so ago
about where (A & G Carburetor, Oak Park IL) I had my carburetor
overhauled, but they also do distributor overhaul by contracting out.
When I mentioned that Dick Paterson reworks the advance, they questioned
the need, given our application. We'll see.

As soon as I hear back from Dick, I'll forward his response to the
GMCnet.

Regarding the transmission oil cooler, I seem to recall e-mail about
that subject some months back (perhaps Patrick can confirm)? As I
recall it talked about the plumbing of one and which line to put in.
It's my understanding that most any aftermarket cooler will work and
that you don't need the biggest sized one. Perhaps someone else has
ideas, also.

Paul Bartz
> From: Ralph Edelbach [SMTP:edelbach]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 1998 2:48 PM
> Subject: GMC: HEI distributor and oil cooler??
>
> I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has replaced the old points
> & condenser distributor system on their 455 with something more
> up-to-date and would like to share their experiences. Some type of
> HEI system sounds the best to me but what units have you found to be
> good? Sources?????
>
> I'm trying to get some of the "little" things done before traveling
> this summer so I am presently replacing the carpets, installing a new
> sink and stove as well as putting in front seats from a Plymouth
> Voyager. The power driver's seat is really nice and I know it is
> comfortable since one of my family cars is a 1990 Voyager with the
> same seats. Just have to raise the driver's one about 1.5 inches to
> get into the ideal range. I'm also going to fabricate steel posts to
> hold the shoulder harnesses on both sides so we're not just relying on
> the lap belts. Lots of little things to do but that is fun ---- at
> least so far.
>
> Also, anyone have a good oil-cooler set-up to recommend? Seems as it
> that would be a good addition but any thoughts would be appreciated.
>
>
 
>
> Ralph:
>
> Regarding the transmission oil cooler, I seem to recall e-mail about
> that subject some months back (perhaps Patrick can confirm)? As I
> recall it talked about the plumbing of one and which line to put in.
> It's my understanding that most any aftermarket cooler will work and
> that you don't need the biggest sized one. Perhaps someone else has
> ideas, also.
>

> >
> > Also, anyone have a good oil-cooler set-up to recommend? Seems as
> > it that would be a good addition but any thoughts would be
> > appreciated.

I thought Ralph was speaking of the engine oil cooler. An additional
trans oil cooler might be a good idea. I'd be sure and get a model that
attaches to something solid instead of the ones that attach through the
radiator.

Patrick
- --
Patrick Flowers
Mailto:patri63

The GMC Motorhome Page
http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
 
>

> >
> > Ralph:
> >
> > Regarding the transmission oil cooler, I seem to recall e-mail about
> > that subject some months back (perhaps Patrick can confirm)? As I
> > recall it talked about the plumbing of one and which line to put in.
> > It's my understanding that most any aftermarket cooler will work and
> > that you don't need the biggest sized one. Perhaps someone else has
> > ideas, also.
> >

> > >
> > > Also, anyone have a good oil-cooler set-up to recommend? Seems as
> > > it that would be a good addition but any thoughts would be
> > > appreciated.
>
> I thought Ralph was speaking of the engine oil cooler. An additional
> trans oil cooler might be a good idea. I'd be sure and get a model that
> attaches to something solid instead of the ones that attach through the
> radiator.
>
> Patrick
> --
> Patrick Flowers
> Mailto:patri63
>
> The GMC Motorhome Page
> http://www.gmcmotorhome.com

I installed a B&M cooler purchased from Summit. In addition
we added a filter to the cooling line. The B&M mounted on L brackets
in front of the radiator. We also put a separate electric fan on the
cooler and set the temp at 180 to turn on the fan. After a hard drive I
always let the engine idle to get trans and oil down to a cooler temp
before shutting off. We also used the same large B&M on the oil line
with the same fan setup and now the radiator only has the engine to
cool.
Summit has good prices and lots of toys in the catalog. I keep looking
at the electric preluber but the $400 price tag keeps me at bay.

They also have HEI and other ignition parts for the 455 setup. The
"Carb
Shop" in Calif. does a great job on the HEI distributor and will also
rebuild and recurve it for low RPM torque and towing. I had them do
mine
along with the Qjet and they did an excellent job.

Marcus
 
Ralph,

I've done several HEI conversions. The nice thing about HEI is that
there's only one wire to run.

First get a roll of red #10 AWG wire. The HEI draws quite a bit of
current. With any smaller wire, you will get too much IR voltage drop.
Pirate an HEI "batt" terminal pigtail from a late model GM car.
That's the one that plugs into the distributor cap and has a clip on it
so it cannot come off. I just get them from the junk yard. Cut off
enough wire to splice to your #10 wire.

Splice that onto your #10 wire. I highly recommend that you solder
and heat shrink the splice. Run the #10 wire inside your coach and over
to your fuse box. Splice a 1/4 inch spade terminal onto the other end
and plug it into the "ign" terminal in the center of your fuse box.
That's all there is to the hook up. Don't worry about putting a fuse in
the circuit. It doesn't need one. The module is "self fusing".

Note: If you just hook up the HEI to the old 12 volt distributor wire,
the HEI will not work well if at all.

Here's how I set the timing:

Remove the number one spark plug. That's the front driver's side
plug. Put your finger over the hole and bump the engine over until you
feel compression pressure. Continue bumping the starter until the
timing mark points to zero. By hand, back the engine up until the mark
points to 8 degrees BTDC.

Install the distributor rotor. It makes a good pointer. Point the
rotor about 1 inch to the left of the vacuum can as view from the top.
Put a new distributor gasket over the shaft and install the distributor
with the vacuum can pointing at the right rear of the engine
compartment. As it goes in, the rotor will turn and hopefully align
with the number one terminal. Number one is the back left terminal on
the cap.

Sometimes the distributor won't go all the way in. Just pull it
back out and take a 5/16 inch socket and extension and turn the oil pump
drive shaft 1/8 of a turn in either direction and try again. Patience
makes perfect.

Once the distributor is in all the way, rotate it until the rotor is
pointing at number one terminal and the teeth inside on the magnetic
pickup are lined up. Double check your alignments and tighten the hold
down nut.

Install the cap and wires. Notice that the HEI plug wire girdle has
the terminals marked. I use silicon tune up on all the boots so they
don't stick to the plug insulators. Speaking of plugs, don't use .060
gap plugs with the HEI. This will result in red dust and worn advance
weight posts inside your HEI distributor.

Let me know if you have anymore questions.

- -Scott Woodworth
 
>
> I installed a B&M cooler purchased from Summit. In addition
> we added a filter to the cooling line. The B&M mounted on L brackets
> in front of the radiator. We also put a separate electric fan on the
> cooler and set the temp at 180 to turn on the fan. After a hard
> drive I always let the engine idle to get trans and oil down to a
> cooler temp before shutting off. We also used the same large B&M on
> the oil line with the same fan setup and now the radiator only has
> the engine to cool.

I only have one minor quibble with this, and it's really probably not
much of an issue since our coaches generally see very little winter
use. Since neither of these systems have a thermostatic bypass,
completely divorcing both coolers from the radiator may have the
unwelcome effect of extending the time required for(or possibly
preventing) the oil and transmission fluid to come up to operating
temperature in cold weather. I know that I've seen oil cooler bypass
thermostats, but I don't recall where. I don't remember ever seeing a
trans cooler bypass thermostat.

Comments?
Patrick
- --
Patrick Flowers
Mailto:patri63

The GMC Motorhome Page
http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
 
>

> >
> > I installed a B&M cooler purchased from Summit. In addition
> > we added a filter to the cooling line. The B&M mounted on L brackets
> > in front of the radiator. We also put a separate electric fan on the
> > cooler and set the temp at 180 to turn on the fan. After a hard
> > drive I always let the engine idle to get trans and oil down to a
> > cooler temp before shutting off. We also used the same large B&M on
> > the oil line with the same fan setup and now the radiator only has
> > the engine to cool.
>
> I only have one minor quibble with this, and it's really probably not
> much of an issue since our coaches generally see very little winter
> use. Since neither of these systems have a thermostatic bypass,
> completely divorcing both coolers from the radiator may have the
> unwelcome effect of extending the time required for(or possibly
> preventing) the oil and transmission fluid to come up to operating
> temperature in cold weather. I know that I've seen oil cooler bypass
> thermostats, but I don't recall where. I don't remember ever seeing a
> trans cooler bypass thermostat.
>
> Comments?
> Patrick
> --
> Patrick Flowers
> Mailto:patri63
>
> The GMC Motorhome Page
> http://www.gmcmotorhome.com

Patrick:

This really was not a problem. Most of the time the coach is used
during the summer, but this winter I took it out for a spin a few times
to get things lubed up, and on a 20 degree day, the temps came up fine.

I did let it idle for 10-15 minutes before driving, and after 10 or so
miles the trans temp was fine. Low Trans fluid temp should never really
be a problem, and winter oil temp is not a real problem as I use
synthetic exclusivly. From racing and engine work syn is the only way
to go.

Marcus
 
Marcus:

At what point are you measuring the trans fluid temperature in the
system and what is the minimum reading on the gauge I assume you use?

I have a Ragusa cast aluminum pan (where the temperature pickup unit is
mounted) on our coach and the McNeil instrument panel with a
transmission temperature gauge, which normally doesn't rise off the peg
unless it is >85 degrees F or I'm driving up an awfully long incline. I
believe the gauge minimum reading is 100 degrees F?

Paul Bartz

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marcus McGee [SMTP:crsalert]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 1998 11:01 AM
> To: gmcmotorhome
> Subject: Re: GMC: RE: HEI distributor and oil cooler??
>

>

>
> I installed a B&M cooler purchased from Summit. In addition we added a
> filter to the cooling line. The B&M mounted on L brackets
> in front of the radiator. We also put a separate electric fan on the
> cooler and set the temp at 180 to turn on the fan. After a hard
> drive I always let the engine idle to get trans and oil down to a
> cooler temp before shutting off. We also used the same large B&M on
> the oil line with the same fan setup and now the radiator only has the
> engine to cool.
>
> I only have one minor quibble with this, and it's really probably not
> much of an issue since our coaches generally see very little winter
> use. Since neither of these systems have a thermostatic bypass,
> completely divorcing both coolers from the radiator may have the
> unwelcome effect of extending the time required for(or possibly
> preventing) the oil and transmission fluid to come up to operating
> temperature in cold weather. I know that I've seen oil cooler bypass
> thermostats, but I don't recall where. I don't remember ever seeing a
> trans cooler bypass thermostat.
>
> Comments?
> Patrick
>
> Patrick:
>
> This really was not a problem. Most of the time the coach is used
> during the summer, but this winter I took it out for a spin a few
> times to get things lubed up, and on a 20 degree day, the temps came
> up fine.
>
> I did let it idle for 10-15 minutes before driving, and after 10 or so
> miles the trans temp was fine. Low trans fluid temp should never
> really be a problem, and winter oil temp is not a real problem as I
> use synthetic exclusivly. From racing and engine work syn is the only
> way to go.
>
> Marcus
 
>
> Marcus:
>
> At what point are you measuring the trans fluid temperature in the
> system and what is the minimum reading on the gauge I assume you use?
>
> I have a Ragusa cast aluminum pan (where the temperature pickup unit is
> mounted) on our coach and the McNeil instrument panel with a
> transmission temperature gauge, which normally doesn't rise off the peg
> unless it is >85 degrees F or I'm driving up an awfully long incline. I
> believe the gauge minimum reading is 100 degrees F?
>
> Paul Bartz
>
>
Paul

I measure at the outboard filter on the output line from the tran. I
also have the same inst. panel and it is 100 degrees. When I drive
for the winter run-in (about twice a month) I use a circuit which
has two very steep hills. This makes sure everything is up to operat-
ing temps. It does not get above 120-140 on the cold winter days and
during the high heat (90+)of the summer the most I have seen is 190-200
on
multiple long uphill grades at 65+ Mph. IMHO the cooler the better.

Marcus
 
Marcus:

The only other comment I have is related to the point of temperature
measurement.

At several of the seminar's given at the GMCMI Rally's, I've listened to
at least two speakers (i. e. Daryl Winterfeldt and Chuck Stoddard) say
that it is more representative to read the temperature at the pan, as
that is were the oil going thru the transmission goes. Seams like I
understood if measured from the output line, it picks up heat from the
vicinity of the exhaust manifold???

What's your understanding?

Paul

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marcus McGee [SMTP:crsalert]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 1998 1:10 PM
> To: gmcmotorhome
> Subject: Re: GMC: RE: HEI distributor and oil cooler??
>

>
> Marcus:
>
> At what point are you measuring the trans fluid temperature in the
> system and what is the minimum reading on the gauge I assume you use?
>
> I have a Ragusa cast aluminum pan (where the temperature pickup unit
> is mounted) on our coach and the McNeil instrument panel with a
> transmission temperature gauge, which normally doesn't rise off the
> peg unless it is >85 degrees F or I'm driving up an awfully long
> incline. I believe the gauge minimum reading is 100 degrees F?
>
> Paul Bartz
>
> Paul
>
> I measure at the outboard filter on the output line from the tran. I
> also have the same inst. panel and it is 100 degrees. When I drive
> for the winter run-in (about twice a month) I use a circuit which has
> two very steep hills. This makes sure everything is up to operat-
> ing temps. It does not get above 120-140 on the cold winter days and
> during the high heat (90+)of the summer the most I have seen is
> 190-200 on multiple long uphill grades at 65+ Mph. IMHO the cooler
> the better.
>
> Marcus
 
>
> The only other comment I have is related to the point of temperature
> measurement.
>
> At several of the seminar's given at the GMCMI Rally's, I've listened
> to at least two speakers (i. e. Daryl Winterfeldt and Chuck Stoddard)
> say that it is more representative to read the temperature at the
> pan, as that is were the oil going thru the transmission goes. Seams
> like I understood if measured from the output line, it picks up heat
> from the vicinity of the exhaust manifold???

I believe the trans oil output line is fluid straight from the torque
converted and is therefor the hottest point in the transmission.

Patrick
- --
Patrick Flowers
Mailto:patri63

The GMC Motorhome Page
http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
 
>
> Marcus:
>
> The only other comment I have is related to the point of temperature
> measurement.
>
> At several of (snip)
> >
> > Paul

Paul

The filter is located on the back wall of the engine compartment, a good
way from the header. I also have a heat shield (from the NASA used
parts bin)around the header so the temp reading should be accurate.

Marcus
 
I agree with Marcus on 1 major point: Synthetic is definitely the way to
go. My GMC (162,000 miles on the Odometer) used to get about 500 miles per
quart on regular oil, but now gets about 1600 miles to a quart using Castrol
Syntec. Cranks and starts easier all year round. Engine also doesn't seem
to get as hot during driving in hot weather either..

> >

> > >
> > > I installed a B&M cooler purchased from Summit. In addition
> > > we added a filter to the cooling line. The B&M mounted on L brackets
> > > in front of the radiator. We also put a separate electric fan on the
> > > cooler and set the temp at 180 to turn on the fan. After a hard
> > > drive I always let the engine idle to get trans and oil down to a
> > > cooler temp before shutting off. We also used the same large B&M on
> > > the oil line with the same fan setup and now the radiator only has
> > > the engine to cool.
> >
> > I only have one minor quibble with this, and it's really probably not
> > much of an issue since our coaches generally see very little winter
> > use. Since neither of these systems have a thermostatic bypass,
> > completely divorcing both coolers from the radiator may have the
> > unwelcome effect of extending the time required for(or possibly
> > preventing) the oil and transmission fluid to come up to operating
> > temperature in cold weather. I know that I've seen oil cooler bypass
> > thermostats, but I don't recall where. I don't remember ever seeing a
> > trans cooler bypass thermostat.
> >
> > Comments?
> > Patrick
> > --
> > Patrick Flowers
> > Mailto:patri63
> >
> > The GMC Motorhome Page
> > http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
>
> Patrick:
>
> This really was not a problem. Most of the time the coach is used
> during the summer, but this winter I took it out for a spin a few times
> to get things lubed up, and on a 20 degree day, the temps came up fine.
>
> I did let it idle for 10-15 minutes before driving, and after 10 or so
> miles the trans temp was fine. Low Trans fluid temp should never really
> be a problem, and winter oil temp is not a real problem as I use
> synthetic exclusivly. From racing and engine work syn is the only way
> to go.
>
> Marcus
 
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