Heads & Rocker arms

M

marcus mcgee

New member
Sep 29, 1997
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As everyone at Marion knows I lost my engine onthe way.( Don't ask,
pilot brian fade). I am getting the 455 rebuilt and hopefully I have
found a good machine shop. Jim Bounds feeld good after talking to Hersa
and I have given him carte blanche to build it as best as he can using
the parts Dick Patterson and Jim have reccomended. It should come in
under $3,000 includeing removal and install. He is also doing the heads
and I missed the seminar at Marion.

Dick Patterson spoke about heads, and I missed most of it. Does any one
have any note. Specifically, he mentioned a new rocker arm setup that
is more like a Chevy. Does any body know the man. and part #?

Marcus
 
>
> Dick Patterson spoke about heads, and I missed most of it. Does any one
> have any note. Specifically, he mentioned a new rocker arm setup that
> is more like a Chevy. Does any body know the man. and part #?

Marcus,

I don't remember the part number, but I'm sure he'll be glad to tell
you. I picked up his business card in Marion. Contact info:

Dick Paterson
RR #3
Coldwater, Ontario LOK 1EO
705-325-4554
705-325-6558

BTW, note one "T" in Paterson(I'm a stickler about spelling names right
and I've been mispelling his). IIRC, he was talking about a
Chevy-style rocker that could be set to zero lash.

Patrick
- --
Patrick Flowers
Mailto:patri63

The GMC Motorhome Page
http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
 
Dick Paterson has a web page at http://www.webgate.net/~gmc/.

A word of caution when we start talking about Joe Mondello (Dr Olds) and
maybe even Dick Paterson. Both have racing backgrounds and they may have a
different objective than we do when it comes to building olds engines.
Increasing Horse power and higher RPMs are not good for us. We need lots of
Torque at low RPM to pull this coach. We also need reliability (who wants to
break down in the middle of nowhere) over speed.

I am interested in why anyone would want to go to chevy style rockers. They
are more complicated than the olds and besides any hydraulic lifter will
give you zero valve lash. Thats why they were designed. Simple, cheap, and
last a long time. Present cost is about $16/side and thats cheap.

If you want to make the olds engine more reliable in my opinion the things
you should consider are 3 inch exhaust pipes and Thorley headers, get rid of
the J heads, change the intake manifold to an edelbrock performer to
eliminate the exhaust crossover, change to a roller timing chain. Remember
torque is more important to us at low RPM than Horse power. Thats one of the
big advantages of the 455 over the 403, low end torque.

Seems to me that we have two kinds of GMCers. The first bought the coach to
restore and use it as a very reliable traveller. In original form it is
fast, maneuverable and is fully supported for parts. The second type puts
all of the latest engine mods etc on the coach to extract better performance
from it. In many cases increased performance engines, later brakes, hubs
etc are not contributing to increased or similar reliability to the original
coach. We need to keep this in mind. I am looking for reliability and
safety and everything else is secondary.

One case is the change to the Cadillac engine by some GMCers. The cadillac
engine is 130# heavier than the olds 455 increasing the alreay marginal load
on the front end, not as reliable (no nickle content in the block), and is
not supported by GMC for parts. Is it really an improvement? Not to me.

Just my opinion.

>>
>> Dick Patterson spoke about heads, and I missed most of it. Does any one
>> have any note. Specifically, he mentioned a new rocker arm setup that
>> is more like a Chevy. Does any body know the man. and part #?
>
>Marcus,
>
>I don't remember the part number, but I'm sure he'll be glad to tell
>you. I picked up his business card in Marion. Contact info:
>
> Dick Paterson
> RR #3
> Coldwater, Ontario LOK 1EO
> 705-325-4554
> 705-325-6558
>
>BTW, note one "T" in Paterson(I'm a stickler about spelling names right
>and I've been mispelling his). IIRC, he was talking about a
>Chevy-style rocker that could be set to zero lash.
>
>Patrick
>--
>Patrick Flowers
>Mailto:patri63
>
>The GMC Motorhome Page
>http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
>
>
 
>
> Dick Paterson has a web page at http://www.webgate.net/~gmc/.
>
> A word of caution when we start talking about Joe Mondello (Dr Olds) and
> maybe even Dick Paterson. Both have racing backgrounds and they may

> >

Tom;

Dick, does build a "tight" low RPM torque engine. When he speaks about
the 455 he always makes the distinction between a "buzz (loose)engine"
high RPM, high HP. and the low end (tight)torque needed for the GMC.

I already have the manifold, headers etc. My engine died (pilot error)
and is being pulled out in NC as we speak. I gave the rebuilder a list
of items similar to what you mentioned. We are doing the heads and I am
looking for any input for opinions to decide how to go. Some items
needed for reliability are the same for both types of engines.

Marcus
 
Marcus what year coach do you have and what year engine?
]
A good place to start is reading info at
http://www.en.com/users/thall/olds/ofind.htm

If you have the J heads (smallest valves and worse head ever built for the
455) I would change them to big valve heads if it were mine. I would also
block the exhaust cross overs with the material that you can get from
mondelo (this will cut down on underhood heat) Would also have the exhaust
side and deck checked for flatness and have the heads pressure tested. make
sure the head either has hardened seats or have stellite seats installed,
they have to be thinner(3/8", mondelo has them) than most shops use or they
will pierce the water jackets. Install stainless steel valves even though
they cost twice as much as regular ones they are worth it. Would also
install the roller timing chain, have the main journals cross drilled and
chamfered for better oil distribution (it really stops spun bearings).

>>
>> Dick Paterson has a web page at http://www.webgate.net/~gmc/.
>>
>> A word of caution when we start talking about Joe Mondello (Dr Olds) and
>> maybe even Dick Paterson. Both have racing backgrounds and they may
>
>> >
>
>Tom;
>
>Dick, does build a "tight" low RPM torque engine. When he speaks about
>the 455 he always makes the distinction between a "buzz (loose)engine"
>high RPM, high HP. and the low end (tight)torque needed for the GMC.
>
>I already have the manifold, headers etc. My engine died (pilot error)
>and is being pulled out in NC as we speak. I gave the rebuilder a list
>of items similar to what you mentioned. We are doing the heads and I am
>looking for any input for opinions to decide how to go. Some items
>needed for reliability are the same for both types of engines.
>
>Marcus
>
>
 
I understand Arch. However coaches running D rated tires are already
running on the edge. However from all of the discussions on problems with
the leveling system it is very easy to overload the front unintentionally.
Add the D rated tires that many people are running and you have a disaster
waiting to happen.

I have had 10 toronados starting with the 1966 and never never had a problem
with the front ends. I regularly tore them apart repacked the bearings etc
and they always ran fine. The GMC coach should be the same. I agree with
you that most failures are caused by lack of regular maintenance. Keep them
well maintained and they will run fine. I am in the process of rebuilding my
front end and using the recommended bearings with .095 clearance. I know
owners that are running theirs as close as .04. Are they asking for
trouble, maybe if everything is on the large side of clearances.

>In a message dated 10/19/98 4:45:45 PM Central Daylight Time, warner
>writes:
>
> One case is the change to the Cadillac engine by some GMCers. The cadillac
> engine is 130# heavier than the olds 455 increasing the alreay marginal load
> on the front end, not as reliable (no nickle content in the block), and is
> not supported by GMC for parts. Is it really an improvement? Not to me.
> >>
>
>Thomas
>
>I have no intention of going to the Cad engine. However it is not because
>it weighs 130 pounds more. Please take this as it is intended------toung
>in cheek-------! If you are this worried about 130 pounds--------do you make
>the wife set in the back? I will once again ask the question I ask the
>other night ---------how many of you have had a front bearing failure.
>The last time I ask I got no replies-------maybe all of the pros were gone.
>Sorry to be so bad---------I just cant help myself.
>
>Take Care
>Arch
>
>
 
Hi Tom, this is Chuck in Lompoc. Yopu are right in part. Joe Mondello does do
the race engines but he also does engines for our application. The engine Tom
put together for me is not a racing engine it has all the torque you'd ever want
and it was built specifically for my GMC motorhome. Some of the racing tricks,
oil restrictors do not hurt our application one bit. I know for a fact that at
65 MPH for an extended period of time, the turbulance forces the oil up and into
the rocker covers. Machining the rods also is a help, both used in race engines
but also in the motor home applications. Thanks Chuck, 1978 Eleganza II,
California

> Dick Paterson has a web page at http://www.webgate.net/~gmc/.
>
> A word of caution when we start talking about Joe Mondello (Dr Olds) and
> maybe even Dick Paterson. Both have racing backgrounds and they may have a
> different objective than we do when it comes to building olds engines.
> Increasing Horse power and higher RPMs are not good for us. We need lots of
> Torque at low RPM to pull this coach. We also need reliability (who wants to
> break down in the middle of nowhere) over speed.
>
> I am interested in why anyone would want to go to chevy style rockers. They
> are more complicated than the olds and besides any hydraulic lifter will
> give you zero valve lash. Thats why they were designed. Simple, cheap, and
> last a long time. Present cost is about $16/side and thats cheap.
>
> If you want to make the olds engine more reliable in my opinion the things
> you should consider are 3 inch exhaust pipes and Thorley headers, get rid of
> the J heads, change the intake manifold to an edelbrock performer to
> eliminate the exhaust crossover, change to a roller timing chain. Remember
> torque is more important to us at low RPM than Horse power. Thats one of the
> big advantages of the 455 over the 403, low end torque.
>
> Seems to me that we have two kinds of GMCers. The first bought the coach to
> restore and use it as a very reliable traveller. In original form it is
> fast, maneuverable and is fully supported for parts. The second type puts
> all of the latest engine mods etc on the coach to extract better performance
> from it. In many cases increased performance engines, later brakes, hubs
> etc are not contributing to increased or similar reliability to the original
> coach. We need to keep this in mind. I am looking for reliability and
> safety and everything else is secondary.
>
> One case is the change to the Cadillac engine by some GMCers. The cadillac
> engine is 130# heavier than the olds 455 increasing the alreay marginal load
> on the front end, not as reliable (no nickle content in the block), and is
> not supported by GMC for parts. Is it really an improvement? Not to me.
>
> Just my opinion.
>

> >>
> >> Dick Patterson spoke about heads, and I missed most of it. Does any one
> >> have any note. Specifically, he mentioned a new rocker arm setup that
> >> is more like a Chevy. Does any body know the man. and part #?
> >
> >Marcus,
> >
> >I don't remember the part number, but I'm sure he'll be glad to tell
> >you. I picked up his business card in Marion. Contact info:
> >
> > Dick Paterson
> > RR #3
> > Coldwater, Ontario LOK 1EO
> > 705-325-4554
> > 705-325-6558
> >
> >BTW, note one "T" in Paterson(I'm a stickler about spelling names right
> >and I've been mispelling his). IIRC, he was talking about a
> >Chevy-style rocker that could be set to zero lash.
> >
> >Patrick
> >--
> >Patrick Flowers
> >Mailto:patri63
> >
> >The GMC Motorhome Page
> >http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
> >
> >
 
Chuck here, don't forget the rotators on the valves! I had my heads ported
and polished too! Yes this is a racing application but it assist with the
overall performace of the engine.
Once you get all of it together you need to think about the breathing of the
unit. Recommend Thronly Headers, Ceramic Coated, inside and outside by HPC in
Salt Lake City and something similar to the Flow Master Exhaust. Don't forget
the thick COPPER Gasket for the headers. Thanks Chuck, Eleganza II, 1978,
California

> >
> > Dick Paterson has a web page at http://www.webgate.net/~gmc/.
> >
> > A word of caution when we start talking about Joe Mondello (Dr Olds) and
> > maybe even Dick Paterson. Both have racing backgrounds and they may
>
> > >
>
> Tom;
>
> Dick, does build a "tight" low RPM torque engine. When he speaks about
> the 455 he always makes the distinction between a "buzz (loose)engine"
> high RPM, high HP. and the low end (tight)torque needed for the GMC.
>
> I already have the manifold, headers etc. My engine died (pilot error)
> and is being pulled out in NC as we speak. I gave the rebuilder a list
> of items similar to what you mentioned. We are doing the heads and I am
> looking for any input for opinions to decide how to go. Some items
> needed for reliability are the same for both types of engines.
>
> Marcus
 
>
> I am interested in why anyone would want to go to chevy style rockers.

Actually, Paterson's rocker arm comments were in response to a question
regarding roller rocker arms. He didn't bring it up.

After listening to Dick's entire presentation, I have no doubt that he
is purpose-building engines for the GMC motorhome. As Marcus said, he
is always making the distinction between torque motors and "buzz"
motors.

Patrick
- --
Patrick Flowers
Mailto:patri63

The GMC Motorhome Page
http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
 
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