Heads & Rocker arms and Caddies

patrick flowers

New member
Sep 19, 1997
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>
> If you want to make the olds engine more reliable in my opinion the things
> you should consider are 3 inch exhaust pipes and Thorley headers, get rid of
> the J heads, change the intake manifold to an edelbrock performer to
> eliminate the exhaust crossover, change to a roller timing chain. Remember
> torque is more important to us at low RPM than Horse power. Thats one of the
> big advantages of the 455 over the 403, low end torque.
>
> Seems to me that we have two kinds of GMCers. The first bought the coach to
> restore and use it as a very reliable traveller. In original form it is
> fast, maneuverable and is fully supported for parts. The second type puts
> all of the latest engine mods etc on the coach to extract better performance
> from it. In many cases increased performance engines, later brakes, hubs
> etc are not contributing to increased or similar reliability to the original
> coach. We need to keep this in mind. I am looking for reliability and
> safety and everything else is secondary.

Thomas my friend, you're on both sides of your own fence here. On
one hand you recommend some performance mods and then poo-poo
unspecified others. Actually I believe there are four kinds of GMCers.
One believes staunchly in keeping it original(call them wes-ites), a
second believes in using proven modern technology to improve the
coach(sounds like you and I), a third will race after any gimmick to fix
things that aren't broken(and often chase patches that cover up real
problems), and the fourth(and most dangerous) are those that are too
cheap to fix things that need fixing. This viewpoint was reinforced by
my trip to Marion where I observed all four types in attendance.

> One case is the change to the Cadillac engine by some GMCers. The cadillac
> engine is 130# heavier than the olds 455 increasing the alreay marginal load
> on the front end, not as reliable (no nickle content in the block), and is
> not supported by GMC for parts. Is it really an improvement? Not to me.

Heh, I'm beginning to think that the only people still considering the
Caddy have never owned a GMC. If this thing were viable, then Buskirk,
Golby or Sirum would be singing the praises of their "drop-in"
conversions from the roof tops. I don't think I heard the word
"Cadillac" all week in Marion. If anyone is serious about more
torque(at a price), then I'm sure Leigh Harrison's fuel
injection/electronic ignition is the way to go. The "jackrabbit" starts
he did from stop lights were no less than amazing, but I kept wondering
about the abuse his torque converter was taking. For me, I'll keep the
old Qjet and HEI.

My opinions, well worth the price!
Patrick
- --
Patrick Flowers
Mailto:patri63

The GMC Motorhome Page
http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
 
Patrick:

Are you sure you were in Marion NC!!!!!

Did you see the beautiful black painted coach that belongs to the fellow
from NC who sells the Busch aluminum wheel cleaner? He parked overnight
in the spot Zeb Frady vacated. I got to see his 500 cid Cadillac engine
installation through the interior engine compartment hatch just prior to
him leaving with Rance Baxter. He also installed Rance's FI system.

I also heard a couple others talk about the Cadillac engine.

I visited with Clarence Buskirk a couple years ago and he took us to his
house and attached garage. There he had a fully built Caddy engine
already mounted in a sub frame to mount in the GMC. Next time I see
him, I'll have to ask about it.

Now you know the rest of the story.

Paul Bartz

From: Patrick Flowers [mailto:patri63]
Sent: Monday, October 19, 1998 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: GMC: Heads & Rocker arms and Caddies

If you want to make the olds engine more reliable in my opinion the
things you should consider are 3 inch exhaust pipes and Thorley headers,
get rid of the J heads, change the intake manifold to an edelbrock
performer to eliminate the exhaust crossover, change to a roller timing
chain. Remember torque is more important to us at low RPM than Horse
power. Thats one of the big advantages of the 455 over the 403, low end
torque.
Seems to me that we have two kinds of GMCers. The first bought the coach
to restore and use it as a very reliable traveller. In original form it
is fast, maneuverable and is fully supported for parts. The second type
puts all of the latest engine mods etc on the coach to extract better
performance from it. In many cases increased performance engines, later
brakes, hubs etc are not contributing to increased or similar
reliability to the original coach. We need to keep this in mind. I am
looking for reliability and safety and everything else is secondary.

Thomas my friend, you're on both sides of your own fence here. On
one hand you recommend some performance mods and then poo-poo
unspecified others. Actually I believe there are four kinds of GMCers.
One believes staunchly in keeping it original(call them wes-ites), a
second believes in using proven modern technology to improve the
coach(sounds like you and I), a third will race after any gimmick to fix
things that aren't broken(and often chase patches that cover up real
problems), and the fourth(and most dangerous) are those that are too
cheap to fix things that need fixing. This viewpoint was reinforced by
my trip to Marion where I observed all four types in attendance.

One case is the change to the Cadillac engine by some GMCers. The
Cadillac engine is 130# heavier than the olds 455 increasing the alreay
marginal load on the front end, not as reliable (no nickle content in
the block), and is not supported by GMC for parts. Is it really an
improvement? Not to me.

Heh, I'm beginning to think that the only people still considering the
Caddy have never owned a GMC. If this thing were viable, then Buskirk,
Golby or Sirum would be singing the praises of their "drop-in"
conversions from the roof tops. I don't think I heard the word
"Cadillac" all week in Marion. If anyone is serious about more torque
(at a price), then I'm sure Leigh Harrison's fuel injection/electronic
ignition is the way to go. The "jackrabbit" starts he did from stop
lights were no less than amazing, but I kept wondering about the abuse
his torque converter was taking. For me, I'll keep the old Qjet and
HEI.
My opinions, well worth the price!

Patrick
 
>
> Are you sure you were in Marion NC!!!!!
>
> Did you see the beautiful black painted coach that belongs to the fellow
> from NC who sells the Busch aluminum wheel cleaner? He parked overnight
> in the spot Zeb Frady vacated. I got to see his 500 cid Cadillac engine
> installation through the interior engine compartment hatch just prior to
> him leaving with Rance Baxter. He also installed Rance's FI system.

Yep, saw his coach but never checked out the engine.

> I also heard a couple others talk about the Cadillac engine.
>
> I visited with Clarence Buskirk a couple years ago and he took us to his
> house and attached garage. There he had a fully built Caddy engine
> already mounted in a sub frame to mount in the GMC. Next time I see
> him, I'll have to ask about it.

I've been told that Clarence gave up on the motor and never installed it
in a coach. The uninstalled engine cradle was as close as it got.
>
> Now you know the rest of the story.

Just one more PS, according to Joe Mondello the Caddy does not flow air
nearly as well as the 455 even with the smog heads. The one exception
to the rule "no replacement for displacement". I still say, if the
Caddy was viable, one of the big GMC shops would have a drop-in. The
fact that Clarence doesn't after getting so close should speak volumes!

Patrick
- --
Patrick Flowers
Mailto:patri63

The GMC Motorhome Page
http://www.gmcmotorhome.com