Hatchcover question of FIRE!

R

richard waters

New member
Feb 8, 1999
1,236
0
0
> This is a really scary scenario. In the last 7 months or so that I've
> had my GMC, I've seen about 3 SOB coaches either burning or already
> burned to the frame. I'm more then a bit concerned about having it
> happen to me. I know about making sure that oil lines and fuel lines
> have been replaced recently and are of the correct type. I know that
> you should have the LP gas turned off when moving. But the type of
> problem Emery mentioned could happen to any of us at any time despite
> all the precuations that we might take.

It takes me a more then a few minutes to get the hatch up now. By the
time I had a chance to stop, move everything out of the way and then get
the 2 screws out and hatch opened my GMC could be history.

SHOULD I BE WORRIED?
- ------

> I once had a carb problem that caused a backfire that blew out the
> gasket from below the aircleaner and blew gasoline back onto the
> engine. I saw smoke coming from the corner of the cover and quickly
> pulled over and unscrewed the two standard screws and when I lifted the
> cover had flames shooting a foot or more above the engine. My fire
> extinguisher put out the fire but it burned the distributor, all the
> spark plug wires, vacuum hoses, throttle wire and some electrical
> wires.

> I was 3 days from home and it took about 4 days to find all the parts I
> needed to get operational.
>
> If it had taken me any longer to get the hatch up I would have lost the
> whole motorhome. You really want to be able to get that hatch up
> quickly. I have seen quick release catches in hardware stores that
> would be a much better alternative.
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Santa Fe, NM
 
Isn't the answer obvious? I am sure concerned and that is the reason that I
will not install anything on top of the hatch cover. Practially however, if
one maintains their coaches, replace soft lines, keep the engine clean etc
the chances of a fire are very low. The GMC is no different than a car. How
many cars have you burned up?

>
>
>> This is a really scary scenario. In the last 7 months or so that I've
>> had my GMC, I've seen about 3 SOB coaches either burning or already
>> burned to the frame. I'm more then a bit concerned about having it
>> happen to me. I know about making sure that oil lines and fuel lines
>> have been replaced recently and are of the correct type. I know that
>> you should have the LP gas turned off when moving. But the type of
>> problem Emery mentioned could happen to any of us at any time despite
>> all the precuations that we might take.
>
>It takes me a more then a few minutes to get the hatch up now. By the
>time I had a chance to stop, move everything out of the way and then get
>the 2 screws out and hatch opened my GMC could be history.
>
>SHOULD I BE WORRIED?
>------
>

>
>> I once had a carb problem that caused a backfire that blew out the
>> gasket from below the aircleaner and blew gasoline back onto the
>> engine. I saw smoke coming from the corner of the cover and quickly
>> pulled over and unscrewed the two standard screws and when I lifted the
>> cover had flames shooting a foot or more above the engine. My fire
>> extinguisher put out the fire but it burned the distributor, all the
>> spark plug wires, vacuum hoses, throttle wire and some electrical
>> wires.
>
>> I was 3 days from home and it took about 4 days to find all the parts I
>> needed to get operational.
>>
>> If it had taken me any longer to get the hatch up I would have lost the
>> whole motorhome. You really want to be able to get that hatch up
>> quickly. I have seen quick release catches in hardware stores that
>> would be a much better alternative.
>>
>> Emery Stora
>> 77 Kingsley
>> Santa Fe, NM
>
>
>
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach
 
Gee, are you trying to make me feel stupid?

Of course I've not had any engine fires in my cars during the past 36 years of
driving. However, I normally don't make it a practice to drive cars that are a
quarter of a century old on a regular basis. Also, I've never lived in my cars
for weeks at a time. Not even in college did I ever do that.

The basis of my concern has been amount of material that I have read about GMC
maintenance suggesting that fire is a problem that should be taken seriously.
Also, during the past year while driving on I-75, I've seen 3 SOB coaches either
burned to the frame or in the process of being totally consumed. What
happened? I think there is more to it then good maintenance. It's about things
that happen that you least expect. Like the one in Colorado that started
because an animal built a nest in the refrigerator vent. A nest like that could
could happen overnight.

Being that this is my first GMC as well as my first RV I want to make sure that
I have all the bases covered.

My coach was well maintained by its previous owner and I have trying to do the
same for the past 7 months.

I've never really thought about getting the hatch open in a hurry before. Also,
how would you really know if there was a fire in the engine compartment? Would
it be too late by the time you saw smoke?

And how about all those pictures you see of GMC's with TV consoles sitting on
the hatch. It seems everyone has one of those for their TV and VCR etc. Where
do you put that stuff if you don't want to cover the hatch?

Then where should you put the fire extinguisher? I have one between the
driver's seat and window just laying on the floor. I also have one in the glove
compartment, one on the wall by the bath and the standard issue extinguisher in
the vacuum cleaner attachments compartment. Are there better places? Should
they be the Halon type?

I have a new smoke detector in the coach. Maybe that's not enough. How about
something that could go in the engine compartment to warn of fire?

I'm just wondering.

Richard Waters
1976 Palm Beach
Troy, MI

- ----------

> Isn't the answer obvious? I am sure concerned and that is the reason that I
> will not install anything on top of the hatch cover. Practially however, if
> one maintains their coaches, replace soft lines, keep the engine clean etc
> the chances of a fire are very low. The GMC is no different than a car. How
> many cars have you burned up?
>

> >
> >
> >> This is a really scary scenario. In the last 7 months or so that I've
> >> had my GMC, I've seen about 3 SOB coaches either burning or already
> >> burned to the frame. I'm more then a bit concerned about having it
> >> happen to me. I know about making sure that oil lines and fuel lines
> >> have been replaced recently and are of the correct type. I know that
> >> you should have the LP gas turned off when moving. But the type of
> >> problem Emery mentioned could happen to any of us at any time despite
> >> all the precuations that we might take.
> >
> >It takes me a more then a few minutes to get the hatch up now. By the
> >time I had a chance to stop, move everything out of the way and then get
> >the 2 screws out and hatch opened my GMC could be history.
> >
> >SHOULD I BE WORRIED?
> >------
> >

> >
> >> I once had a carb problem that caused a backfire that blew out the
> >> gasket from below the aircleaner and blew gasoline back onto the
> >> engine. I saw smoke coming from the corner of the cover and quickly
> >> pulled over and unscrewed the two standard screws and when I lifted the
> >> cover had flames shooting a foot or more above the engine. My fire
> >> extinguisher put out the fire but it burned the distributor, all the
> >> spark plug wires, vacuum hoses, throttle wire and some electrical
> >> wires.
> >
> >> I was 3 days from home and it took about 4 days to find all the parts I
> >> needed to get operational.
> >>
> >> If it had taken me any longer to get the hatch up I would have lost the
> >> whole motorhome. You really want to be able to get that hatch up
> >> quickly. I have seen quick release catches in hardware stores that
> >> would be a much better alternative.
> >>
> >> Emery Stora
> >> 77 Kingsley
> >> Santa Fe, NM
> >
> >
> >
> Tom & Marg Warner
> Vernon Center NY
> 1976 palmbeach
 
You have a lot of good points. but I still contend that fires happen at a
far greater rate on poorly maintained coaches. One has to differentiate
between the random fire (from a nest in the pipe) and one caused by propane,
or an engine fire. If you have good oil lines, clean engine and tranny,
well sealed carb and lines, the chances of a fire are very close to zero. I
will bet if the truth were known, fires seldom happen to a coach that is
well maintained by the owner.

Bottom line is that we can worry ourselves to death with what could happen.
Do the proper maintenace, do it as well as you can, use good parts, don't
try to cut corners and than PRAY! And keep a big fire extinguisher handy.

I don't see where there is any greater possibility of having a fire in the
mororhome than in your house or car.

>Gee, are you trying to make me feel stupid?
>
>Of course I've not had any engine fires in my cars during the past 36 years of
>driving. However, I normally don't make it a practice to drive cars that are a
>quarter of a century old on a regular basis. Also, I've never lived in my cars
>for weeks at a time. Not even in college did I ever do that.
>
>The basis of my concern has been amount of material that I have read about GMC
>maintenance suggesting that fire is a problem that should be taken seriously.
>Also, during the past year while driving on I-75, I've seen 3 SOB coaches
either
>burned to the frame or in the process of being totally consumed. What
>happened? I think there is more to it then good maintenance. It's about
things
>that happen that you least expect. Like the one in Colorado that started
>because an animal built a nest in the refrigerator vent. A nest like that could
>could happen overnight.
>
>Being that this is my first GMC as well as my first RV I want to make sure that
>I have all the bases covered.
>
>My coach was well maintained by its previous owner and I have trying to do the
>same for the past 7 months.
>
>I've never really thought about getting the hatch open in a hurry before.
Also,
>how would you really know if there was a fire in the engine compartment? Would
>it be too late by the time you saw smoke?
>
>And how about all those pictures you see of GMC's with TV consoles sitting on
>the hatch. It seems everyone has one of those for their TV and VCR etc. Where
>do you put that stuff if you don't want to cover the hatch?
>
>Then where should you put the fire extinguisher? I have one between the
>driver's seat and window just laying on the floor. I also have one in the
glove
>compartment, one on the wall by the bath and the standard issue extinguisher in
>the vacuum cleaner attachments compartment. Are there better places? Should
>they be the Halon type?
>
>I have a new smoke detector in the coach. Maybe that's not enough. How about
>something that could go in the engine compartment to warn of fire?
>
>I'm just wondering.
>
>Richard Waters
>1976 Palm Beach
>Troy, MI
>
>----------
>

>
>> Isn't the answer obvious? I am sure concerned and that is the reason that I
>> will not install anything on top of the hatch cover. Practially however, if
>> one maintains their coaches, replace soft lines, keep the engine clean etc
>> the chances of a fire are very low. The GMC is no different than a car. How
>> many cars have you burned up?
>>

>> >
>> >
>> >> This is a really scary scenario. In the last 7 months or so that I've
>> >> had my GMC, I've seen about 3 SOB coaches either burning or already
>> >> burned to the frame. I'm more then a bit concerned about having it
>> >> happen to me. I know about making sure that oil lines and fuel lines
>> >> have been replaced recently and are of the correct type. I know that
>> >> you should have the LP gas turned off when moving. But the type of
>> >> problem Emery mentioned could happen to any of us at any time despite
>> >> all the precuations that we might take.
>> >
>> >It takes me a more then a few minutes to get the hatch up now. By the
>> >time I had a chance to stop, move everything out of the way and then get
>> >the 2 screws out and hatch opened my GMC could be history.
>> >
>> >SHOULD I BE WORRIED?
>> >------
>> >

>> >
>> >> I once had a carb problem that caused a backfire that blew out the
>> >> gasket from below the aircleaner and blew gasoline back onto the
>> >> engine. I saw smoke coming from the corner of the cover and quickly
>> >> pulled over and unscrewed the two standard screws and when I lifted the
>> >> cover had flames shooting a foot or more above the engine. My fire
>> >> extinguisher put out the fire but it burned the distributor, all the
>> >> spark plug wires, vacuum hoses, throttle wire and some electrical
>> >> wires.
>> >
>> >> I was 3 days from home and it took about 4 days to find all the parts I
>> >> needed to get operational.
>> >>
>> >> If it had taken me any longer to get the hatch up I would have lost the
>> >> whole motorhome. You really want to be able to get that hatch up
>> >> quickly. I have seen quick release catches in hardware stores that
>> >> would be a much better alternative.
>> >>
>> >> Emery Stora
>> >> 77 Kingsley
>> >> Santa Fe, NM
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> Tom & Marg Warner
>> Vernon Center NY
>> 1976 palmbeach
>
>
>
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach
 
I have made a shelf that attaches to the angled firewall forward of the
hatch. I used two pieces of 2"x6" cut in a triangle shape. The long side
of the triangle is perpendicular to the hatch and the short side is the same
angle as the firewall. I install these pieces using angle iron to attach
the short angle to the firewall with the long angle on top. You then mount
a one half inch piece of plywood to the 2"x6" pieces and you have a shelf
that will support a 13" TV or what ever else you want to put on it, within
reason of course. I also used Velcro to attach a shelf on top of the TV and
secured it to the dash using the original table hardware. There is nothing
setting on the hatch so it can be raised and removed without moving
anything.

I have a template for the 2"x6" pieces and I will have it at Myrtle Beach.
Anyone interested in seeing the shelf, come by my coach at Myrtle Beach. I
will be parked with the GMC Classics group. If you want to copy the
template for the supports, we could trace it out on some cardboard.

I am going to try to rig up a carbon dioxide fire extinguisher plumbed to
the engine compartment. I don't think I will have it done before leaving
for Myrtle Beach. I would rather put a fire out rather than allowing it a
chance to set the interior on fire by raising the hatch. If I remember
correctly someone else has an engine compartment fire extinguisher system
that was previously talked about on the GMCnet. I don't remember who has
the system but it should be in the archives.

Russ Bethel
grbethel
 
> I've never really thought about getting the hatch open in a hurry
> before. Also, how would you really know if there was a fire in the
> engine compartment? Would it be too late by the time you saw smoke?

I have had a fire burning right under the Hatchcover, and I am not sure
the best tactic would be to open the hatch in all cases. I sent my wife
outside with one of the extinguishers, and I stayed inside with another
extinguisher, trying to open the hatch. She had the fire out before I
got the hatch open with nothing impeding the hatch removal other than hot
fasteners and the eject...eject...eject!!! senario replaying in my brain.

Richard asks a good question...how does one know there is a fire burning?
In my case it was just dumb luck that a passing motorist who stopped at a
light beside me, rolled down his window and asked if I knew I had a fire
burning under my coach. I think we need the GMCnet expertise to design a
fire detection system the we can build/install that will not be too often
fooled by just heat. I think there is quite a bit of interest in the
subject, judging by the initial posts.

Lessons learned from my experience... a simple mistake such as
overfilled transmission fluid can overflow and catch fire. Two fire
extinguishers is an absolute minimum and one must be very easy to grab as
one exits the door.

Opening a door/hatch with a roaring fire on the other side is
obviously very dangerous, and may only be advisable if the fire is not
large or has not quite got roaring. I'm wondering if it might be better
strategy to retard the entry of the fire into the coach, while fighting
the fire with a already-in-place system and hand extinguishers from the
outside.

- --
Regards,
John 74 Glacier near Washington, DC.
 
John,

This is the other reason to always be extremely careful not to overfill the
transmission...besides the fire hazard, it is very likely the cause of your
subsequent failure. If the oil level is too high, the oil is churned by the
planetary gears into a foam...the air in the foam compresses, so you have
very low hydraulic pressure to the clutches and they begin to slip. These
clutches are not designed to slip; they are supposed to engage
completely--all of the slip is in the torque converter. They fail very soon
if they are allowed to slip...like a week later.

Travis, lurker
- -----Original Message-----
From: jdolan
To: gmcmotorhome
Date: Sunday, March 07, 1999 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: GMC: Hatchcover question of FIRE!

>> The fire didn't get him, the smoke did. Toxic fumes are a real problem
>> with any vehicle. GET OUT OF IT FIRST. Then do what you need to do.
>
>I think that is probably the best advice possible Roger... The Fire
>department got there 5 minutes after the fire was out. They got lost
>because of an ambiguous/unclear address given by another motorist on a
>cell phone who was fast but not accurate. We could hear them blocks
>away, with their sirens half wailing/half whining as they tried to find
>us. The fire department went in with their air tanks on and opened every
>window and told us to stay out of it for 60 minutes and not to sleep in
>it tonight (and this was in a coach where I never got the hatch open).
>It had a very bad sour smell.
>
>I said I thought it was caused by an overfilled transmission. But I
>ended up having to replace that transmission a week later for $1500.
>Could this transmisssion have been slipping and running hot causing even
>a properly filled transmisssion to overheat and overflow up the filler
>tube?
>
>--
>Regards,
>John 74 Glacier near Washington, DC.
>
 
> The fire didn't get him, the smoke did. Toxic fumes are a real problem
> with any vehicle. GET OUT OF IT FIRST. Then do what you need to do.

I think that is probably the best advice possible Roger... The Fire
department got there 5 minutes after the fire was out. They got lost
because of an ambiguous/unclear address given by another motorist on a
cell phone who was fast but not accurate. We could hear them blocks
away, with their sirens half wailing/half whining as they tried to find
us. The fire department went in with their air tanks on and opened every
window and told us to stay out of it for 60 minutes and not to sleep in
it tonight (and this was in a coach where I never got the hatch open).
It had a very bad sour smell.

I said I thought it was caused by an overfilled transmission. But I
ended up having to replace that transmission a week later for $1500.
Could this transmisssion have been slipping and running hot causing even
a properly filled transmisssion to overheat and overflow up the filler
tube?

- --
Regards,
John 74 Glacier near Washington, DC.
 
>
>I don't see where there is any greater possibility of having a fire in the
>mororhome than in your house or car.

Richard Waters said:
>>The basis of my concern has been amount of material that I have read
about GMC
>>maintenance suggesting that fire is a problem that should be taken
seriously.
>>Also, during the past year while driving on I-75, I've seen 3 SOB coaches
>either burned to the frame or in the process of being totally consumed. What
>>happened? I think there is more to it than good maintenance.
>>I've never really thought about getting the hatch open in a hurry before.
>>Also,
>>how would you really know if there was a fire in the engine compartment?
Would
>>it be too late by the time you saw smoke?
>>I have a new smoke detector in the coach. Maybe that's not enough. How
about
>>something that could go in the engine compartment to warn of fire?
>>
>>I'm just wondering.

Arild comments:

If I might interject a comment or two.
There are automatic fire detection systems made for boats which will detect
fire and trigger the extinguisher. However, both Halon and CO2 rely on
the fact that the gas is heavier than air and will settle to the bottom of
a closed compartment and fill the space to extinguish the fire by
depriving it of oxygen. Dry chem on the other hand relies on a chemical
reaction produced when the powder is heated by the flames. CO2 can
also work by quenching the fire when the combustible material is cooled
below the ignition point. This cooling effect will not work well in a
place with lots of latent heat such as a big engine block. Nor will it
work if a fresh supply of fuel is constantly pumped in.
Lastly keep in mind that the bottom of your engine compartment is open
to the road and any gas will drop down and dissipate whereas most fuel
fires are located at the top of the engine.

Dry Chem or foam would seem to be the most effective extinguishing agent
with permanent nozzles placed to hit the top of the engine and the
exhaust manifolds where a fire is most likely to erupt.

Check with a local fire extinguisher service shop for more details on the
best product to use and how to plumb it into your coach.

With regards to the comment about more frequent fires of late.
Cars are generally used less heavily than either trucks or coaches. A
motor home may be run at a very high power level for long periods of
time; comparable to a heavy hauler truck. This in turn creates higher
heat levels without a cooldown period. Secondly, more new engines are
turbo charged and fuel injected. I have seen more fires caused by these
two than I have ever seen due to a carb backfire. Spraying oil on a hot
manifold is of course equally likely to cause a fire on either
carburetted or fuel injected engine. Like the man said; keep it clean is
the only way to prevent that.
One thing you can do to minimize a fire risk with a wooden hatch cover is
to line the under side with a reflective foil insulation. The foil will
reflect the heat away from the wood and also prevent the wood from
accumulating any oil spray which could cause combustion if heated enough.
Cheers

Arild
 
Thanks Travis, I don't know enough about this to have an opinion but...

>John,
>This is the other reason to always be extremely careful not to overfill
>the transmission...besides the fire hazard, it is very likely the cause
>of your subsequent failure. If the oil level is too high, the oil is
>churned by the planetary gears into a foam...the air in the foam
>compresses, so you have very low hydraulic pressure to the clutches and
>they begin to slip. These clutches are not designed to slip; they are
>supposed to engage completely--all of the slip is in the torque
>converter. They fail very soon if they are allowed to slip...like a week
>later.

What I was concerned about was what, if this transmission just failed
from normal wear and tear, and as a part of the failure it overheated and
caused a properely filled transmission to overflow up the filler tube and
catch fire? Is this the case often when folks don't have a Transmission
Temp guage? Or do most normal trans failures not cause overflow if
properly filled to begin with?

- --
Regards,
John 74 Glacier near Washington, DC.
 
Looks like a sure case for temperature gauges on tranny and engine

>> The fire didn't get him, the smoke did. Toxic fumes are a real problem
>> with any vehicle. GET OUT OF IT FIRST. Then do what you need to do.
>
>I think that is probably the best advice possible Roger... The Fire
>department got there 5 minutes after the fire was out. They got lost
>because of an ambiguous/unclear address given by another motorist on a
>cell phone who was fast but not accurate. We could hear them blocks
>away, with their sirens half wailing/half whining as they tried to find
>us. The fire department went in with their air tanks on and opened every
>window and told us to stay out of it for 60 minutes and not to sleep in
>it tonight (and this was in a coach where I never got the hatch open).
>It had a very bad sour smell.
>
>I said I thought it was caused by an overfilled transmission. But I
>ended up having to replace that transmission a week later for $1500.
>Could this transmisssion have been slipping and running hot causing even
>a properly filled transmisssion to overheat and overflow up the filler
>tube?
>
>--
>Regards,
>John 74 Glacier near Washington, DC.
>
>
>
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach
 
Lots of discussion about fires. I did put in the fire proofing sold by a firm in
Colorado. Their may be others, but that was the first one I found. I met the
Mayo (I think) at the rally in Las Vegas. They showed me a torch on one side and
his hand on the other. The fire from the torch did not heat up his hand. I
liked that. So, since I could not get a halon system in the engine compartment,
I went with the material.
Al Chernoff

> >
> >I don't see where there is any greater possibility of having a fire in the
> >mororhome than in your house or car.
>
> Richard Waters said:
> >>The basis of my concern has been amount of material that I have read
> about GMC
> >>maintenance suggesting that fire is a problem that should be taken
> seriously.
> >>Also, during the past year while driving on I-75, I've seen 3 SOB coaches
> >either burned to the frame or in the process of being totally consumed. What
> >>happened? I think there is more to it than good maintenance.
> >>I've never really thought about getting the hatch open in a hurry before.
> >>Also,
> >>how would you really know if there was a fire in the engine compartment?
> Would
> >>it be too late by the time you saw smoke?
> >>I have a new smoke detector in the coach. Maybe that's not enough. How
> about
> >>something that could go in the engine compartment to warn of fire?
> >>
> >>I'm just wondering.
>
> Arild comments:
>
> If I might interject a comment or two.
> There are automatic fire detection systems made for boats which will detect
> fire and trigger the extinguisher. However, both Halon and CO2 rely on
> the fact that the gas is heavier than air and will settle to the bottom of
> a closed compartment and fill the space to extinguish the fire by
> depriving it of oxygen. Dry chem on the other hand relies on a chemical
> reaction produced when the powder is heated by the flames. CO2 can
> also work by quenching the fire when the combustible material is cooled
> below the ignition point. This cooling effect will not work well in a
> place with lots of latent heat such as a big engine block. Nor will it
> work if a fresh supply of fuel is constantly pumped in.
> Lastly keep in mind that the bottom of your engine compartment is open
> to the road and any gas will drop down and dissipate whereas most fuel
> fires are located at the top of the engine.
>
> Dry Chem or foam would seem to be the most effective extinguishing agent
> with permanent nozzles placed to hit the top of the engine and the
> exhaust manifolds where a fire is most likely to erupt.
>
> Check with a local fire extinguisher service shop for more details on the
> best product to use and how to plumb it into your coach.
>
> With regards to the comment about more frequent fires of late.
> Cars are generally used less heavily than either trucks or coaches. A
> motor home may be run at a very high power level for long periods of
> time; comparable to a heavy hauler truck. This in turn creates higher
> heat levels without a cooldown period. Secondly, more new engines are
> turbo charged and fuel injected. I have seen more fires caused by these
> two than I have ever seen due to a carb backfire. Spraying oil on a hot
> manifold is of course equally likely to cause a fire on either
> carburetted or fuel injected engine. Like the man said; keep it clean is
> the only way to prevent that.
> One thing you can do to minimize a fire risk with a wooden hatch cover is
> to line the under side with a reflective foil insulation. The foil will
> reflect the heat away from the wood and also prevent the wood from
> accumulating any oil spray which could cause combustion if heated enough.
> Cheers
>
> Arild
 
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