Harness helped me in the plane crash. adding to GMC

> http://texarkana.craigslist.org/ptd/4058460144.html
>
> See more seat choices. Appears that cash works again.
>
> Tom, MS II



These prices seem way more than the guy in Phoenix.

But if anyone is interested, I'm going to that Decautr swap meet today. I'll see what he brings, maybe a cheap price as it closes Sunday.

two 1 four five 2 seven o o seven o
PM is on and email is in my forum profile.
--
Don Adams Dallas, TX
'76 26' Glenbrook, '90 Sidekick
rebuilt by R Archer, powered by J Bounds, Koba
 
Don, he just quoted me $600 a set for the integral model.

I want 2 sets of gray with integral seat belts. To be clear, that'd be 4 seats in all, (2 lefthand and 2 righthand), all matching color. $1200 if that's what his email said (it was oddly phrased).

I don't know how we'd ever get them to Orlando, though??
--
77 Royale Coachmen Side Dry Bath
76 Birchaven Coachmen Side Wet Bath
 
Don, your phone number did not work for me. I'm interested in one set in tan, preferribly like image # 6. Please check.
Tom, MS II
--
1975 GMC Avion, under forever re-construction
Vicksburg, MS. 3.7 miles from I-20
 
> ...I see it much more likely to hit someone who's pulled in front of you and then you bounce your face off the steering wheel. I've seen what that does to your face firsthand. A good friend spent lots of time doing reconstructive surgery. ...
Maybe a steering wheel airbag would be a good idea. What's involved, besides finding one that will bolt onto the shaft, running the wires, and locating the "trigger"?
--
'73 23' Sequoia For Camping
'73 23' CanyonLands For Sale
UA (Upper Alabama)
"Time is money. If you use YOUR time, you get to keep YOUR money."
 
Some company marketed a "universal steering wheel air bag" for a very short time. Liability issues ate them up. Sorry, Robin, but even sharks have to eat.
Tom, MS II
--
1975 GMC Avion, under forever re-construction
Vicksburg, MS. 3.7 miles from I-20
 
I'll chime in here with what I am told is one of the most boring part=
of the race driving class I teach. As Joe Weir pointed out, in a race car=
, a multi point harness is a part of a system including the cage, and I"ll =
add also very importantly includes the helmet. A multi-point harness i=
s designed to hold the driver plastered in the vehicle so he can maintain c=
ontrol under high g force loading. The down side of that is he is held in =
place so well that he is unable to avoid a head injury if the roof caves in=
in a bad accident. Part of the safety cage's job is to protect his fixed-=
in-place head from that roof intrusion. The helmet tops off the safety pla=
n by protecting his noggin from banging on the cage or any other intrusions=
when upside down or whatever. Though most drivers are strapped in to the =
point of almost discomfort, the harness belts are prone to stretching 6-8 i=
nches under heavy g loads which results in a guarantee of hitting one's hel=
meted head on a part of the cage in any significant accident. (really cool =
high speed video from the HANS people about this). The DOT doesn't app=
rove multi point harnesses for the street because street cars don't have se=
rious overhead protection from roof intrusion. A inertia reel shoulder/lap=
belt is not only more convenient than a multi-point harness, but it also a=
llows the body to move out of the way in the event of a roof intrusion even=
t. Obviously, not a perfect solution as some injury will result from that =
kind of accident but at least one can go with the flow a little and still b=
e restrained in the car. Not sure there is an easy solution to improve=
GMC safety aspects - I agree with Joe that super-safe defensive driving is=
step number one but that won't handle all variables introduced from other =
drivers, like an emergency avoidance maneuver that has a domino effect resu=
lting in an upside-down GMC. Beyond safe driving it gets complicated - pro=
bably a stout cage tied into the chassis and tucked up well out of the way =
of soft tissue along with a shoulder harness - but it would have to be pret=
ty stout to not become a liability. Then there's the further complication =
that stout cages have diminishing returns in terms of reducing impact load =
absorption and transmit all g-loads to the occupant resulting in sometimes =
fatal internal injuries from restraints, which is why carefully designed cr=
ush zones are so effective and why open wheel and sports racer cars are des=
igned to fly apart rather than stay screwed together in accidents. Front a=
nd side airbags would be terrific at least for an initial impact, but that =
seems like a factory-only install unavailable to us. For now I'm sti=
cking with careful driving, lap belts and happy thoughts. John '76 E=
leganza II -- 1976 Eleganza II, 1969 Lotus Elan Plus 2,=
1978 Merlyn Formula Ford, 1981 Lola Sports 2000
 
Bruce,

Do they have arm rests on both sides of the seat?

Regards,
Rob M.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Hislop

My GMC & Chev extenda-cab pickups have the shoulder harness built into the front seats. There must be lots of those at the men's
mall.

As mentioned before, you would need to beef up the seat mounting.

Bruce
 
Speaking as one who has rolled a GMC, you do not want to be strapped to the side wall which in my case departed the frame. My choice for a three point would be to purchase seats with it built into the seat (some pickups, etc.).
John
--
John Nicholls,
76 Birchaven(2)
73 Glacier
Pensacola, FL
 
Glad to hear from John on this issue, the voice of ezperience from what must have been a terrifying experience.

Perhaps John could post a link to photos of his coach after the accident?

The GMC is better than most non-bus conversion motorhomes, which tend to disintergrate in bad accidents.

Don & Susan Jeffers
78 Eleganza II
 
The odds are still the same as before.  During the 50's & 60's my dad raced late model and modified stock cars on circle tracks.  It was common practice to use aviation style harnesses.  Attached to the roll cage if I recall correctly.
Among other things, they saved a lot of drivers from getting their faces slammed into the steering wheel during collisions.
JP

>________________________________
> From: Bob Dunahugh
>To: "gmclist"
>Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 10:48 PM
>Subject: [GMCnet] Harness helped me in the plane crash. adding to GMC
>
>
>
>
>
>I suddenly have an extreme desire to put a harness. Or shoulder strap in the GMC. I was in a plane crash. The harness did a fantastic job for me. But the person behind me didn't far to well with just a lap belt. Any neat way's to do it? I do a lot of track road racing. Never crashed. Came close way to often. This brought the show home for me.  A friend told me today that the odds of being in a plane crash is vary,vary low. As I see it. I'm safe for life. What are the odds of being in a second one?
>
>Bob Dunahugh  GMCMI  Member.78 Royale$ Road Race Yenko Chevrolets
>
>
>
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I'm just an ex-marketing guy, but in my former career, I spent a litt=
le time with the vehicle safety people. John Hunt's post did a great job o=
f covering some of the issues involved with trying to improve crash safety.=
All the legalese around the all-belts-to-seats setups going into DOT test=
ed vehicles and such, sort of relates to a change in how things like conver=
sion vans were certified for crash performance, I think in the late 80's. =
The conversion companies essentially had to prove their seats would meet ce=
rtain standards in a "sled" crash test. The vehicle manufacturers essentia=
lly certified if you correctly mounted a seat to the vehicle manufacture sp=
ecified mountings, the rest of the vehicle would meet the standards it had =
to meet. One of the results of this was many conversion van companies went=
out of business, as it's an expensive process. On our GMC's you will esse=
ntially never have either piece of a known and tested seat structure or a k=
nown and tested vehicle. Sort of step 1 in starting a vehicle safety progr=
am nowadays, is you take a Finite Element Analysis computer model (sort of=
a carefully sectioned wire frame model) of every part in the vehicle and r=
un a few thousand crash simulations in a Cray Supercomputer to understand t=
he vehicles "crash pulse" or how it transfers energy from the crash into t=
he rest of the vehicle. It "knows" the strengths of the materials involved=
and looks at how much various parts are crushed by the millisecond to unde=
rstand the loading the drivers and passengers are under. By the way, passi=
ng a chest compression test in a 35 mph crash test in that era meant there =
were less than 50 g's (or in my case more than the weight of a GMC sitting =
on me, albeit only for a millisecond or two). Airbags add a whole lot of c=
omplexity, since they literally use lethal forces to inflate quick enough t=
o do any good, so the relationship of driver position, airbag position, dri=
ver movement (it's not just the belts that stretch 6" so does your body) an=
d the rate and timing of inflation are all absolutely critical. That inclu=
des understanding the crush of the front end before the sensor in the bumpe=
r knows to trigger the airbag. I know we have an awful lot of smart people=
on our forum, but I think there is about as much opportunity to make thing=
s worse as there is to make it better. In keeping with some earlier commen=
ts, you might be better off spending that belt and seat money on a good per=
formance driving school rather than hoping you understand the dynamics well=
enough to make an improvement. -- Craig Lechowicz '77 Kingsley, Wat=
erford, MI
 
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