GOOD NEWS / BAD NEWS

G

gene

New member
Sep 29, 1999
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CAUTION- NEWBE'S AND WANTABE'S

This trip report could be hazardous to your mental health !!

BAD NEWS- favorite uncle died -- going to LA for funeral
GOOD NEWS- chance to check out new TBI

BAD NEWS- exhaust leak at just about LomPock
GOOD NEWS-have Black list,give Chuck a call.

Bad News - Chuck not home-- leave message.
Good news - stopped in Santa Barbara - call Dave Lowry,HELP!!!!
(Blessed Black List, Dave and Chuck saved my life)

Bad News- His favorite muffler shop cannot take me.
Good news- He recommended another shop 2 miles away - he will

Bad news- He looks at GMC and says "I shouldn't take this on"
Good news - after much begging he does and determines is manifold, and
repairs it.

Bad news- Leak still there-- fixed wrong problem, intake manifold is
leaking at the crossover.
Good News- Chuck calls back, he will call his mechanic.

Bad News- too busy - suggests do not drive - might catch on fire.
Good News- Chuck suggests two campgrounds

bad News - $30 per night and I have to take toad to LA(3 days)
Good News- Made it to funeral saw all of family.

Bad News- Chuck suggests tow GMC back to Mondello (Paso Robes) "they made
it, have them fix it"
Good News- Mondello says drive it back.

Bad News- exhaust burning TBI connections -use soda can to shield the wires
(see Pix)
Good News- Made it there and they will fix it.

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=128904&a=1619678

Bad News- Intake manifold did not have the blocking plates
Good News- Mondello will fill with Metal (see pix)

Bad News- late start, will take two days
Good News - Mondello fixed for free under warranty (great guys)
Bad News-finished late Fri. have to stay in area over weekend to test.

Good News-finished late have to visit area for two days.
Bad News- Starting home Exhaust leak again,back to Mondello

Good News?- Muffler blown, (how did that happen?)
Bad News- torrential rain storm all the way home.

Good News- I made it and the GMC never let me down.

The real positive side to this GMC trip is how lucky can I be that I was
driving past the guy who built the engine when this happened. I could have
been in Mexico or Utah. Mondello was great they were working on the rig in
less than an hour and not only replaced the gasket, but metal filled the
crossover passage. They say the intake manifold was not warped so do not
know why the gasket blew out. This is not a common problem. (Just my luck.
as Al says, If I did not have bad luck, I would not have any luck at all)

The Howell TBI was just super. The engine starts first time, never
diesels, and pulls like a demon. There is still some controversy about the
vacuum advance, but I will save that for later.

Gene
Genef -- 77PB/ore/ca
GMC MOTORHOME INFORMATION
mr.erf
http://www.california.com/~eagle/
 
Gene,
The REAL GOOD NEWS is that you are ready any willing to share this event
with the net. What a resource this net is!!! Yes it was unfortunate this
happened but look at the good that will come from it. Thank you VERY MUCH!!
As an old friend used to tell me "Look at the experience you got!!".
Jerry
 
Big fat exhaust leak. It was blowing like a broken muffler or exhaust
manifold, except it was under the air cleaner. It blew the gasket clear
out so that the exhaust was coming out the side of the intake minifold.
Could not miss the sound but was coming out the top of the head not the
bottom.

gene

>In a message dated 1/24/2000 11:57:08 PM Central Standard Time,

>
> leaking at the crossover. >>
>
>Gene,
>What were the symptoms??
>
>H. Lanier B. Foote, LL.B., J.D.
>Tax Analyst
>AxTax, Inc.
>Jackson, MS
>'73 GMC Classic
>'29 Mercedes SSK
>
Genef -- 77PB/ore/ca
GMC MOTORHOME INFORMATION
mr.erf
http://www.california.com/~eagle/
 
Was hard to keep a good attitude, however I considered it a free two day
engine seminar with the Mondello organization. I learned a lot and will
share the info in the near future. Like info on the blocking plates they
sell..... ( a teaser)

gene

>Gene,
>The REAL GOOD NEWS is that you are ready any willing to share this event
>with the net. What a resource this net is!!! Yes it was unfortunate this
>happened but look at the good that will come from it. Thank you VERY MUCH!!
>As an old friend used to tell me "Look at the experience you got!!".
>Jerry
>
>
Genef -- 77PB/ore/ca
GMC MOTORHOME INFORMATION
mr.erf
http://www.california.com/~eagle/
 
Glad you asked---

Their engine master who does all of their engine work, said he did not put
the blocking plates in the motor home manifolds because the manifolds were
too thin where they contact the heads and he was afraid of breaking the
manifold....

I said, "they still sell these plates for the motor homes", he just
shrugged and said he did not use the plates. That is why he filled my
manifold with metal..... and I guess this is why he did not have them in my
new motor originally. I asked about the welding, he did not really have
an answer but they do weld the heads.... and the new al heads do not have
the ports so there is no issue with them.

interesting ??

another interesting point I learned, is the 403 is low enough it is
possible to use an AL manifold without changing the hatch cover....

gene

>In a message dated 1/24/00 9:57:12 PM Pacific Standard Time,

>
>> Mondello was great they were working on the rig in
>> less than an hour and not only replaced the gasket, but metal filled the
>> crossover passage. They say the intake manifold was not warped so do not
>> know why the gasket blew out. This is not a common problem. (Just my
luck.
>> as Al says, If I did not have bad luck, I would not have any luck at all)
>
>Gene,
>Mondello also sells the stainless plates to block the crossover passages.
>Which is the way to go?
>Block off, fill, or weld?
>
>Manny Trovao
>73 Custom/ex-Glacier
>San Jose, California
>
Genef -- 77PB/ore/ca
GMC MOTORHOME INFORMATION
mr.erf
http://www.california.com/~eagle/
 
Gene,

This problem was real common on our aluminum intake. I think the stock
intake has a little more meat in the crossover flange area which makes it a
little better though. I don't really see what filling up the intake's
crossovers is going to do. The air is coming from the heads and can still
push out the gaskets and leak between the head and the blocked intake
crossover. Maybe the filler will add enough extra meat to keep the gasket
in place.

The TBI may be keeping the mixture a little leaner than the average GMC set
carb. That may have your exhaust gas temps higher than Mondello's engines
usually see which also might be one of the factors.

Of course, it could have also just been bad luck.

Zak

>The real positive side to this GMC trip is how lucky can I be that I was
>driving past the guy who built the engine when this happened. I could have
>been in Mexico or Utah. Mondello was great they were working on the rig in
>less than an hour and not only replaced the gasket, but metal filled the
>crossover passage. They say the intake manifold was not warped so do not
>know why the gasket blew out. This is not a common problem. (Just my luck.
> as Al says, If I did not have bad luck, I would not have any luck at all)
>Gene
>Genef -- 77PB/ore/ca
>GMC MOTORHOME INFORMATION
>mr.erf
>http://www.california.com/~eagle/
 
I think I was hearing a hiss before the TBI. I kept asking my wife if she
was hearing something (said no) so I think it was pre TBI, but I think my
Carb was too lean also.

I don't think the filling will help the blow out problem might make it
worse since the gases come up against a block and not press on the
gasket...... rather than pass through.

But I think filling the manifold will stop the breaking .

gene

>Gene,
>
>This problem was real common on our aluminum intake. I think the stock
>intake has a little more meat in the crossover flange area which makes it a
>little better though. I don't really see what filling up the intake's
>crossovers is going to do. The air is coming from the heads and can still
>push out the gaskets and leak between the head and the blocked intake
>crossover. Maybe the filler will add enough extra meat to keep the gasket
>in place.
>
>The TBI may be keeping the mixture a little leaner than the average GMC set
>carb. That may have your exhaust gas temps higher than Mondello's engines
>usually see which also might be one of the factors.
>
>Of course, it could have also just been bad luck.
>
>Zak
>
>

>>The real positive side to this GMC trip is how lucky can I be that I was
>>driving past the guy who built the engine when this happened. I could have
>>been in Mexico or Utah. Mondello was great they were working on the rig in
>>less than an hour and not only replaced the gasket, but metal filled the
>>crossover passage. They say the intake manifold was not warped so do not
>>know why the gasket blew out. This is not a common problem. (Just my luck.
>> as Al says, If I did not have bad luck, I would not have any luck at all)
>>Gene
>>Genef -- 77PB/ore/ca
>>GMC MOTORHOME INFORMATION
>>mr.erf
>>http://www.california.com/~eagle/
>
>
Genef -- 77PB/ore/ca
GMC MOTORHOME INFORMATION
mr.erf
http://www.california.com/~eagle/
 
Gents, FWIW, I have been of and on fighting this intake manifold problem for
quite some time now and don't think that I have it licked yet. Along the way I
have aquired some facts that it only seems logical that I would share with my GMC
brethern. Don't want to start WW3, so let me wualify all of the next facts(?)
with, "this is what I have heard from pretty reliable sources, I personally
probably don't know sic'em".
Bill's Machine of Omaha Nebraska is the primary engine builder for the Saleen
(s?)Ford Mustang engines. Don't dnow if you have heard of them or not, but in the
racer circles, they are well known. Anyhow, Bill has been doing my machine work
since I restarted racing dirt track stock cars, just after my mid life crisis. He
is a very knowledgeable man and has been in the business for many, many years.
While comiserating with him about my oil comsumption troubles, he suggested that
we look at the intake manifold for warpage. Long story short, my original intake
manifold was bad warped. At that time, I opted for a Edelbrock Performer and
raised my floor to compensate for the higher carb level. Alas, to no avail, for I
still had unacceptable oil consumption on an engine with just 3000 miles on
it.(About 500 miles to a quart). After further comiseration with Bill, he
informed me that in his experience, the Edelbrock aluminum manifold has an
inordinate number of warped manifolds, possibly due to lack of quality control.
At about this time, a friend of mine, who by the way rebuilt his engine at the
same time and was experiencing high oil consumption also, and had installed an
Edelbrock manifold also, removed the manifold and discovered that it had cracked
in a couple of places. This was after just a few thousand miles. We both
discovered an excessive amount of oil in the intake runners, which would account
for the higher than normal oil consumption rate. I replaced the aluminum,
manifold with an OEM one that I aquired and had checked and magnafluxed. I still
have oil consumption that is, as far as I'm concerned, unacceptable(600 mi per
qt), and I will be surprised if I still don't have a sealing problem. My heads
were, to my knowledge, only milled enough to clean them up, so that shouldn't be
a problem. I am told that head positioning on these 455's , is very critical to
proper intake manifold sealing and alignment. I intend to pull the intake again
when the weather clears up, so we shall see. Don't know if anybody got anything
out of this rambling, but hope so
Pat 77 Birch

> Gene,
>
> Don't want to keep picking at an open sore, but I'd sure like to hear more
> about your intake manifold problem. You see, when I had to rebuild my
> engine, I discovered a crack in the Edelbrock Performer where the crossover
> runner enters the "chimney" as I call the area under the carburetor. I had
> it welded but have worried ever since about how long it will last and what
> will happen if it fails again. At the time I knew nothing about plugs for
> the crossover.
>
> Some questions (for Gene or anyone who knows):
>
> Q1: You apparently did not have a busted/cracked manifold but a leak where
> the crossover passes from the head into the manifold, is that correct?
>
> Q2: Mondello sealed the crossover tube -- I saw your pictures.
>
> Q2A: What was the metal he used? Seeing how he melted it, I'd almost
> thing plumbers lead. That seems a very low temperature plug.
>
> Q2B: If you didn't have a problem with the crossover tube, per se, why
> plug it? General principles?
>
> Q3: Do you know the pros/cons of plugs in the manifold vs plugs in the heads
> vs poured plugs?
>
> Q4: Did Mondello do anything besides plug the crossover and install a new
> gasket? I.e., did he match-machine the manifold to the heads?
>
> Q5: I've been tempted to go back to the cast iron manifold which came on my
> replacement engine, but yours was iron, wasn't it? Any ideas about whether
> aluminum or iron is most reliable?
>
> Q6: Why don't we throw up our hands, give our GMCs away and live peaceful,
> unperturbed lives instead of looking forward to our next great adventure?
> (Remember, I'm trying to get mine ready for a trip to Alaska!)
>
> Ken Henderson
>
> Q4:
 
Last July on our way to a MOUNTAINEERS rally, the GOOSE with the EGG in tow,
passed a large coach on the side of the road. We were just north of Cortez
Co. I pulled off a couple hundred yards ahead of him and waited. He
finally puttered up the grade and pulled in beside me. MONACO--VAPOR LOCK.
He decided to have lunch and let it cool. Thanked me for stopping then
asked,"What kind of rig are you driving?". 'A 73 GMC PULLING A 72
VOLKSWAGON!!!!!!! He just turned and went back in his MONACO. We headed on
out with a smile as big as TEXAS!!!!!
Jerry
 
Thank you we needed that. I saw a lot of SOBs' on the hook this trip also.,

gene

>Last July on our way to a MOUNTAINEERS rally, the GOOSE with the EGG in tow,
>passed a large coach on the side of the road. We were just north of Cortez
>Co. I pulled off a couple hundred yards ahead of him and waited. He
>finally puttered up the grade and pulled in beside me. MONACO--VAPOR LOCK.
>He decided to have lunch and let it cool. Thanked me for stopping then
>asked,"What kind of rig are you driving?". 'A 73 GMC PULLING A 72
>VOLKSWAGON!!!!!!! He just turned and went back in his MONACO. We headed on
>out with a smile as big as TEXAS!!!!!
>Jerry
>
>
Genef -- 77PB/ore/ca
GMC MOTORHOME INFORMATION
mr.erf
http://www.california.com/~eagle/
 
Arch,
My experience, good, bad or indifferent!
I welded up the crossover passage in my intake to get rid of the terrible
heat problem in the intake. Milled the surface of the manifold to true up
and also make space for the composition intake gaskets. Of course, I
also used the stainless steel shims to protect the composition gaskets.
RESULT!! The exhaust burned thru the shim, burned thru the gasket
and burned thru the limits of my sanity.
SOLUTION!! I called Mondello for a set of the iron plugs for the
heads, carefully fitted them in the heads and welded those little suckers
solidly in place. This sealed the exhaust totally.. (Don't neglect the
welding
as an article in GMC Motorhome Marketplace several years ago told of
the results of that mistake.)
When you do all this, then you must drop by the salvage yard and find
an electric choke for a quadrijet, cause this baybe is cold-blooded.
Gary Kosier
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2000 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: GMC: GOOD NEWS / BAD NEWS
 
>CAUTION- NEWBE'S AND WANTABE'S
>
>This trip report could be hazardous to your mental health !!
>
>BAD NEWS- favorite uncle died -- going to LA for funeral
>GOOD NEWS- chance to check out new TBI
.........snip.......

Great write up , Gene! What an exciting adventure you had.

It must really be boring to drive one of those Monarch coaches. :-)

Thanks for sharing

bdub
 
I saw your new great stuff on western states. Some of those tech notes I
have not seen before..... nice going

gene

>>CAUTION- NEWBE'S AND WANTABE'S
>>
>>This trip report could be hazardous to your mental health !!
>>
>>BAD NEWS- favorite uncle died -- going to LA for funeral
>>GOOD NEWS- chance to check out new TBI
>.........snip.......
>
>Great write up , Gene! What an exciting adventure you had.
>
>It must really be boring to drive one of those Monarch coaches. :-)
>
>Thanks for sharing
>
>bdub
>
>
Genef -- 77PB/ore/ca
GMC MOTORHOME INFORMATION
mr.erf
http://www.california.com/~eagle/
 
No I do not.. It was harder than AL as I watched him grind on it. They
sell the metal in ingots and they may say in their catalog, but I have not
found mine recently ;>)

I hope it lasts.

gene

>
>> Mondello was great they were working on the rig in
>> less than an hour and not only replaced the gasket, but metal filled the
>> crossover passage.
>
>Gene,
> Sorry to hear of all your bad news, hope the good stuff prevails. ;-)
>
> I'm curious: do you know exactly what kind of metal they used to fill
>your crossover, and did you see how they put it in??
>
> TIA.
>
>Rick Staples
>'75 Eleganza
>Louisville, CO
>
Genef -- 77PB/ore/ca
GMC MOTORHOME INFORMATION
mr.erf
http://www.california.com/~eagle/
 
snip........
Don't know if anybody got anything out of this rambling, but hope so
> Pat 77 Birch
>

What I got out of this is, stay with the OEM stuff. Works for me.

David Lee Greenberg
GMC Motorhome Registry
Dedicated to the preservation of the Classic GMC
www.gmcss.com/registry.htm
 
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