GMCMI (International) rallies mapped out

[kab7]

> What is being discussed here is a lot like what we went through with Eastern States. I ran an survey and the most important thing to come out of
> it was the drive time verses rally time issue. For this reason, Mary carefully plotted the locations of all the members (by zipcode) and then we
> looked in the middle of that profusion. It still didn't work as well as we hoped. People just do not want to drive two days for a two day rally.

I think it ends up as: "you can't serve all the members all the time, but you can serve some of the members some of the time."
Or something like that.

Move it around enough, and everybody will get a chance at some point. It also makes it a lot more interesting.
That's the beauty of our coaches: they're mobile.

Karen
1975 26'

 

[Daniel]

We are both, Marjon and myself, looking forward to to attend our first GMC Rally, this spring in Pahrump, the GMCWS Springrally from 20-24 april!
Flying from Amsterdam to Las Vegas, arriving Sunday the 16 April and getting our rental at Cruise America on Monday.

All routeplanning and alternatives, are done, but we are flexible so alternations will be always possible.
Have to return to the Netherlands on Friday the 12 May ...

Daniel
--
Daniel Jacobs, No GMC, but an admirer of them .... We'll see what the future brings ....

Always remember, the world is full of nice people!
So, if you can't find one, be one!

 

[Ken H.]

That sort of illustrates the location quandary: I'd sort of like to go to
that rally also, but look at the mileages:

Americus to Shawnee: 900 mi -- a comfortable 3-day drive.
Americus to Pahrump: 2100 mi -- 7 DAYS each way!
San Francisco to Pahrump: 560 mi -- 2 Days -- or doable in one long day.

Similarly, I've wanted badly to join the Coos Bay rallies -- but at 2836
miles, it's just too far to fit into my doctor, dentist, and family
appointments schedule, long re-retired though I am. Not to mention the
$0.50 per mile I use to estimate expenses. A $3000+ rally's just a bit too
rich for my kid's inheritance plans to tolerate.

And there are MANY GMCers located 500+ miles farther away from the W. Coast
than we are.

Unfortunately, it works both ways, too. Now if the US were the size of
England...

Ken H.

> We are both, Marjon and myself, looking forward to to attend our first GMC
> Rally, this spring in Pahrump, the GMCWS Springrally from 20-24 april!
> Flying from Amsterdam to Las Vegas, arriving Sunday the 16 April and
> getting our rental at Cruise America on Monday.
>
> All routeplanning and alternatives, are done, but we are flexible so
> alternations will be always possible.
> Have to return to the Netherlands on Friday the 12 May ...
>
> Daniel
> --
> Daniel Jacobs, No GMC, but an admirer of them .... We'll see what the
> future brings ....
>
> Always remember, the world is full of nice people!
> So, if you can't find one, be one!
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

 

[Daniel]

> Unfortunately, it works both ways, too. Now if the US were the size of
> England...
>
> Ken H.
Or the Netherlands, Ken :lol:

But I can imaging, as you point out, not only the time, but also the cost-factor is of importance. The long drive and the rally-costs.

As our dutch MH group the NKC (the biggest of Europe!!) did do their big convention last year, several 100 MHs did attend:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHKKBmRhdBE

We even have our own promotional movies

https://youtu.be/3WHaSc4KZmU

And for the most it was a short drive, even coming from the almost south (the town of Landgraaf) of the Netherlands, to Zandvoort, 250 km ...
Even when we drive from the outmost south to the north of the country, as an example, Vaals to Eemshaven, not quite 400 km ... about 248.54 miles

In a big country as yours it will be always finding a compromise to satisfy all members.

Our distance to attend will be some further ... more then 5500 miles ...

Daniel
--
Daniel Jacobs, No GMC, but an admirer of them .... We'll see what the future brings ....

Always remember, the world is full of nice people!
So, if you can't find one, be one!

 

[johnny]

Well, LA to north GA was a week, with a one day stay with friends to break it up. Lotsa money for gas, but it got the coach home. The GMCMI problem
is much the same as our National club for my dog breed. We hold one Specialty show a year, and we have breeders scattered (very thinly) from Maine to
the Los Angeles area. Many of us will not fly the dogs. Our answer is, hold five or six Specialties in the central US, then do one on each coast,
repeat. I skip the West Coast ones, those folks skip the East Coast ones, and we all grouse about the distance to the central ones. They actually
favor the East, but so does the population of BWDs. We're winding up four in Kalamazoo this year, I haven't heard where next year is, p'raps Arizona
or California. We have one more criteria than the GMCMI people - we don't hold shows in politically anti - dog locations. If your town has BSL or
restrictive S/N laws, we ain't gonna be there. Much the same as RV parks with age restrictions.

--johnny
--
'76 23' transmode Norris upfit, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"The road goes on forever, and the party never ends" --Robert Earl Keen

 

[Matt Colie]

> I think it ends up as: "you can't serve all the members all the time, but you can serve some of the members some of the time."
> Or something like that.
>
> Move it around enough, and everybody will get a chance at some point. It also makes it a lot more interesting.
> That's the beauty of our coaches: they're mobile.
>
> Karen
> 1975 26'

Karen,

While the idea is good, we have two personal issues.

Only one is that Tucson will be 4 road days as a Bonzi run (no stops for sights at all - fuel and short sleep only and with two drivers.) It is still
5 road days as a hard run and 7 road days as a casual run. It is over 2000 miles. That means two bogie grease stops just to get there.

I had hoped to use this as a lead in to a Pacific Coast Highway tour all the way to Washington. And when in Washington and Idaho there were hopes and
plans to shoot two national matches. Now I have a much bigger problem. Most of the PCH is in California. California now prohibits the possession of
magazines that can hold more than five cartridges. Those cannot be limited by plugs that can be removed. The long gun I would carry is specifically
disallowed because it could be an "assault weapon" (whatever that means today). I would also want to carry several hundred rounds of match grade
ammunition and this would require a California arsenal license. The magazines for the match pieces are about 1.5 GMCbucks EACH as they have been
smithed to eliminate mis-feeds and not damage the projectile. You don't even want to hear the insured value of the match pieces. Suffice it to say
that I cannot afford to loose them.

And, California has eliminated the "Peaceable Transit" language from the new laws.

This, coupled with the cost of a required crampsite along the coast. (One can get a crampsite for a semi-reasonable ~40$ when you get 30~50 miles
inland.) Is a big enough deterrent to severely limit our chances of doing this tour. Free ONP is virually non-existent as elsewhere as many
jurisdictions have eliminated it with local ordinances.

So much for California this life.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

 

[thomas phipps]

'Assault weapon' must be defined as ugly, or looks like 'military weapon.' Most are not highly accurate, include the famous AK family, and are 'little
boy' show-off toys. Actual military long guns are designed to work under most conditions, with little skilled maintenance, and fire lots of rounds.
This excludes the early M-16, beautifully designed but needed exact cleaning. AK, you could bury it in dirt, pull it out and fire it. Perhaps with
little effect, they were inaccurate in the hands of poorly trained troops.
Tom, MS II
--
1975 GMC Avion
KA4CSG

 

[johnny]

We run into the same problems with our dogs in many parts of California - and in fairness, much of the Northeast as well. Places with mandatory S/N
or BSL, or restrictions on hobby breeders we simply don't go.

--johnny
--
'76 23' transmode Norris upfit, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"The road goes on forever, and the party never ends" --Robert Earl Keen

 

[larry nelson]

I am past president of the International Cessna 195 Club, which, for non-pilots, is a "Type Club", meaning we all fly the same "type" of aircraft. Our
membership numbers are based on the fact that they only made 1100 of them from 1947 to 1954. Many left the country, to AU and to Canada, and to
Europe, but we do have conventions in the US as our membership is made up of, mostly, insane owners. Where to have these conventions? Well, that is an
issue and is widely discussed as we must select locations that can handle 40-100 airplanes, plus lodging, plus space for banquet, plus has hangar for
clinics, PLUS the following:

have some local interest things goin' on, PLUS is located where the membership is willing to fly. We did surveys of membership and have tried to
address the geographic areas that had some favor amongst the membership.

BUT....one thing was clear, and even though California has the highest number of 195's in the US, our conventions will draw higher if they are located
somewhere in the center of gravity of the US, and that ain't California, so we have them out west only maybe once in 10 years. Last one was at Chino,
two years ago.

This year, the 70th anniversary of the Cessna 195, will be in Wichita, the birthplace, and will draw more planes, by far, than any previous convention
on either end of the country.

It is a problem making everyone happy and I can see that. As for GMCMI, I will be at Shawnee (planning on it, anyway). Too easy to get there.

Larry
--
Larry Nelson Springfield, MO
Ex GMC'er, then GM Busnut
now '77 Eleganza ARS WB0JOT

 

[kab7]

> So much for California this life.
>
> Matt

Doesn't have to be in California. There are 11 states (13 w/ AK and HI) and 2 provinces in the west side.
In the last 10 years, there has been ONE rally in any of those states. That was 2009 in Pueblo, Colorado,
which is almost to Kansas. It was far east as it's possible to get and still call it west.

For other folks, saying we can't have a rally in Oregon because you can't make it from Iowa, is
no more valid than saying you can't have one in Texas, Louisiana, or Florida because it's too far from Minnesota.
No rally ANYWHERE will be attend-able by all members EVER, no matter where it is.

My point is that GMCMI has, in the last 10 years or so, become an east-only organization.
Imho, that needs to change if they're going to keep claiming western membership.

Karen
1974 26'

PS I voted against that law, but please let's not devolve into a gun discussion here.
I'm sure if we had a rally in one of the other states, one of the many helpful GMCers there
would be happy to store your weapons while you visit California.
Personally, I think the Oregon coast is as beautiful as anywhere further south, maybe more so.

 

[johnny]

Larry, do you guys allow 190s? Sorta like 455s and 203s.

--johnny
--
'76 23' transmode Norris upfit, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"The road goes on forever, and the party never ends" --Robert Earl Keen

 

[LarryW]

There is so much to see in this great country of ours, that it is hard for us to veto a rally because of its location. For working folks it may be.
We started out from Wisconsin with the intent of ending up in Shawnee. We are getting there by way of Southern California. Our plan is NO PLAN. We
may stay at a campsite for several days...up to a week (or longer if at a relative's home). Then we look at a map and find a place within 300 mi or so
and go there. See the sights, relax and look at the map again for our next stop. Have seen great things. Saw the Reagan Library in Simi Valley CA.
last week. Then saw the Pacific Ocean at Malibu...walked the beach for a day. I spent a couple of hours at the FiTech factory talking with their
techs. My point is that if you have to travel far to a rally, make the rally just another egg in the basket of life. Traveling long distances in the
MH is not as expensive as one would think. We have found that, when on the road, our monthly expenses are cut roughly by 1/3 to 1/2. Why?? You don't
buy extras on the road because there is no place to store them and you'd have to carry them with you for the next 3 months. Because you are away from
home, you are not spending money on that home remodel project or other such things. Cost of utilities drops way down. etc. etc. you get my drift? It
is actually cheaper to be on the road than to stay home. In addition, that coach is better off on the road than sitting idle in storage. Things
deteriorate. Drums and rotors rust. Rust forms on cylinder walls of cylinders with a valve open. Short runs form corrosive fluids in your crankcase
reducing life of the engine. Seals harden making them leak. Mice get in and eat your wiring....get my drift? So we don't let the distance to the next
rally deter us from attending.

We have this great country that is just begging you to visit it, and it is so much fun to do it in a GMC. JMHO See you all at Shawnee.
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.

 

[Jim Hupy]

Destination rallies have an appeal to a segment of coach owners, mostly
because of their social value. Renew old friendships, attend seminars, ice
cream, happy hours, no hooking up and unhooking every night. Those rallies
are good.
My favorite rallies are rolling rallies. We have done two long
distance ones, Cross Canada in 2012, and Route 66 in 2014. Both of those
were over SEVEN THOUSAND MILES from our home and return. Different place
every night, different stuff to see every day. A chance to use these great
coaches for the purpose for which they were designed. "See the U.S.A. in
your Chevrolet" kinda deal.
We do mini rolling rallies, too. Wine touring, Covered Bridges
(coming up in May 2017). Purposes of them are limited only by your
imagination. Like minded folks together sharing meals every night. Great
fun. Use those coaches as much as possible, folks. Life is short, spend
your kids enheritance, let them earn their own way, they will thank you for
it later. Eat dessert first.
Jim Hupy, President, GMC CASCADERS
Salem, Oregon
78 GMC ROYALE 403

> There is so much to see in this great country of ours, that it is hard for
> us to veto a rally because of its location. For working folks it may be.
> We started out from Wisconsin with the intent of ending up in Shawnee. We
> are getting there by way of Southern California. Our plan is NO PLAN. We
> may stay at a campsite for several days...up to a week (or longer if at a
> relative's home). Then we look at a map and find a place within 300 mi or so
> and go there. See the sights, relax and look at the map again for our next
> stop. Have seen great things. Saw the Reagan Library in Simi Valley CA.
> last week. Then saw the Pacific Ocean at Malibu...walked the beach for a
> day. I spent a couple of hours at the FiTech factory talking with their
> techs. My point is that if you have to travel far to a rally, make the
> rally just another egg in the basket of life. Traveling long distances in
> the
> MH is not as expensive as one would think. We have found that, when on
> the road, our monthly expenses are cut roughly by 1/3 to 1/2. Why?? You
> don't
> buy extras on the road because there is no place to store them and you'd
> have to carry them with you for the next 3 months. Because you are away from
> home, you are not spending money on that home remodel project or other
> such things. Cost of utilities drops way down. etc. etc. you get my drift?
> It
> is actually cheaper to be on the road than to stay home. In addition,
> that coach is better off on the road than sitting idle in storage. Things
> deteriorate. Drums and rotors rust. Rust forms on cylinder walls of
> cylinders with a valve open. Short runs form corrosive fluids in your
> crankcase
> reducing life of the engine. Seals harden making them leak. Mice get in
> and eat your wiring....get my drift? So we don't let the distance to the
> next
> rally deter us from attending.
>
> We have this great country that is just begging you to visit it, and it is
> so much fun to do it in a GMC. JMHO See you all at Shawnee.
> --
> Larry
> 78 Royale w/500 Caddy
> Menomonie, WI.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

 

[larry nelson]

> Larry, do you guys allow 190s? Sorta like 455s and 203s.
>
> --johnny

Abso-tively....they are part of the 1100 made. Had the Continental 245 hp.

Larry
--
Larry Nelson Springfield, MO
Ex GMC'er, then GM Busnut
now '77 Eleganza ARS WB0JOT

 

[johnny]

We had one of each on the field where I learned. Col Norm used to let me fly (but not land - he was no fool) his 190. Lovely old bird. Few things
make your hair stand up like the sound of a round motor making power.

I don't see GMCMI splitting, but I like the idea of several regional clubs 'co-opping' a rally or two now and again. Also the idea of rallies on the
way to rallies, fixed or rolling. National organizations in a country this size are probably always going to have this discussion.

--johnny

--
'76 23' transmode Norris upfit, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"The road goes on forever, and the party never ends" --Robert Earl Keen

 

[Matt Colie]

> 'Assault weapon' must be defined as ugly, or looks like 'military weapon.' Most are not highly accurate, include the famous AK family, and are
> 'little boy' show-off toys. Actual military long guns are designed to work under most conditions, with little skilled maintenance, and fire lots of
> rounds. This excludes the early M-16, beautifully designed but needed exact cleaning. AK, you could bury it in dirt, pull it out and fire it.
> Perhaps with little effect, they were inaccurate in the hands of poorly trained troops.
> Tom, MS II

Tom,

First impressions are often damaging. That is the case here. It looks a lot like an AR-15/M-16 so states with stupid laws make it a problem.

This piece is hardly ugly (except to gun haters). It is 5.56, but it is a tack driver. We used the AR action in the design because when it is fit
properly (nothing like the version sold to military) it is as stable as the best of bolt action 30s. We wanted to go the .308, but we detected some
loss of rigidity in the chamber area due to the larger case. The ammunition is also special as it will stay over Mach by just a little at a 100m
target.

One of the real problems comes that when you make it as tight as this, it can mark the slug (big bozo no-no) when the round is fed to the chamber.
The magazines have UHMW guide blocks to prevent this. They are not inexpensive and with our current financial state, I could not afford to have my
free-lance gunsmith either shorten them to 5 round or make others that were only that size.

You probably know what a gold cup is.... Think of these are iridium cup, we blew right on by platinum cup during the first iteration.

Unless you are a true firearms aficionado you would not understand most of what these pieces are. Unfortunately, these days they are proving to be
more true than I seem to be.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

 

[d c *mac* macdonald]

One of my daughter's high school classmates is a gun manufacturer and makes what are claimed to be highly accurate semi-auto only replicas of the Iraqi Tabuk AK-47s including a sniper version !

All are special order only (50% down) and can take as long as six months before delivery !

They supplied around 10 (I believe) for a movie made about the Iraq war.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ Since 30 November '53 ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ Member GMCMI and Classics ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ~ TZE166V101966 ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
~~ k2gkk + hotmail dot com ~~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
______________
|[ ]~~~[][ ][]\
"--OO--[]---O-"

________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of Matt Colie
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2017 19:21
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] GMCMI (International) rallies mapped out

> 'Assault weapon' must be defined as ugly, or looks like 'military weapon.' Most are not highly accurate, include the famous AK family, and are
> 'little boy' show-off toys. Actual military long guns are designed to work under most conditions, with little skilled maintenance, and fire lots of
> rounds. This excludes the early M-16, beautifully designed but needed exact cleaning. AK, you could bury it in dirt, pull it out and fire it.
> Perhaps with little effect, they were inaccurate in the hands of poorly trained troops.
> Tom, MS II

Tom,

First impressions are often damaging. That is the case here. It looks a lot like an AR-15/M-16 so states with stupid laws make it a problem.

This piece is hardly ugly (except to gun haters). It is 5.56, but it is a tack driver. We used the AR action in the design because when it is fit
properly (nothing like the version sold to military) it is as stable as the best of bolt action 30s. We wanted to go the .308, but we detected some
loss of rigidity in the chamber area due to the larger case. The ammunition is also special as it will stay over Mach by just a little at a 100m
target.

One of the real problems comes that when you make it as tight as this, it can mark the slug (big bozo no-no) when the round is fed to the chamber.
The magazines have UHMW guide blocks to prevent this. They are not inexpensive and with our current financial state, I could not afford to have my
free-lance gunsmith either shorten them to 5 round or make others that were only that size.

You probably know what a gold cup is.... Think of these are iridium cup, we blew right on by platinum cup during the first iteration.

Unless you are a true firearms aficionado you would not understand most of what these pieces are. Unfortunately, these days they are proving to be
more true than I seem to be.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

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[Matt Colie]

> > So much for California this life.
> >
> > Matt
>
>
> Doesn't have to be in California. There are 11 states (13 w/ AK and HI) and 2 provinces in the west side.
> In the last 10 years, there has been ONE rally in any of those states. That was 2009 in Pueblo, Colorado,
> which is almost to Kansas. It was far east as it's possible to get and still call it west.
>
> For other folks, saying we can't have a rally in Oregon because you can't make it from Iowa, is
> no more valid than saying you can't have one in Texas, Louisiana, or Florida because it's too far from Minnesota.
> No rally ANYWHERE will be attend-able by all members EVER, no matter where it is.
>
> My point is that GMCMI has, in the last 10 years or so, become an east-only organization.
> Imho, that needs to change if they're going to keep claiming western membership.
>
> Karen
> 1974 26'
>
> PS I voted against that law, but please let's not devolve into a gun discussion here.
> I'm sure if we had a rally in one of the other states, one of the many helpful GMCers there
> would be happy to store your weapons while you visit California.
> Personally, I think the Oregon coast is as beautiful as anywhere further south, maybe more so.


Karen,

I share a lot of your view.
This is not about specific laws, but it is about unfriendliness of the coast to RV traveling people. That is unless you are rich and don't mind
leaving a weeks grocery money on the table at every crampground every night.

While someone mentioned LV as a possibility, that that is only a long day (~400 mi) from Tucson. I'm not sure we would go the short way, but others
might.

The original plan was for Shawnee then west to LV to visit with Mary's brother (out of five siblings between us, few are worth visiting) with several
scenic stops along the way. From there to San Diego. After some animals and museum stuff, we would drive the PCH north until we have to turn east to
get to Port Townsend (boat building friends there). Then continue east collecting targets of opportunity until the dogs smell home.

It took us 3800 miles to get to Chippewa Falls by way of Yellowstone. With the hysteric registration, we are only supposed to drive the coach to
events, shows and for service. The event was the GMCMI Rally. No place does it say we have to take the short way. A lot of the GMCers I know use
the rally as a mid point in an excursion. (i.e. Dave Lenzi never takes the short way home and comes up with some great places to stop. He and Mary
have a wonderful collection of stories. He is more than just a metal working genius.)

The only reason my guns are in the picture is that if I am going to drive the approximately seven thousand miles that the original tour was planned,
the matches would make a nice break. This is not about that. It is about the loss of personal freedoms to some extent.

Matt

Oh, do not offer to store firearms and ammunition for anybody while you are in California unless you have the appropriate licenses. The new laws are
extremely restrictive and very harsh.
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

 

[LarryW]

[quote ]

Hey Larry ain't it fun here in Blythe camping in the rain? Looks like you made it out of the Los Angles area just in time they are having a lot of
rain back there the past couple of days. I need to head back home at the end of the week but not in this weather I'd never make it over the
sierras.[/quote]

Just for you'all's information, Roy1 and I are just 30ft apart in Mayflower campground...Blythe CA. 30ft apart and we are communicating through the
GMCnet....Geeze!
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.

 

[Ken H.]

BINGO! I've figured it out: The geographic center of the contiguous 48
United States is near Lebanon, Kansas. So, what we need to do is have all
future rallies there! Here's a reference for at least most of the RV parks
near there:

http://www.rvparky.com/search?l=Lebanon%2C+KS+66952%2C+USA&x=39.809734&y=-98.555620

Now all we have to do is find the biggest of those, or, probably more
likely, the group of them large enough to accommodate all of us -- we can
drive toads to somewhere for group get togethers. You'll notice that none
of the parks within 40 miles are burdened with ratings of more than ONE
star -- and only one of those! It's obviously a prime location -- what
with all that nice flat land around there.

An added bonus of that location is that a LOT of us in the East will get to
travel through E.St.Louis, which is always a thrill I can barely resist
(having gotten off of the interstate there once). Those finding that to be
too far from their present locations will just have to move closer! Or at
least arrange to be nearby in the Spring and the Fall.

I hope everyone appreciates this brilliant suggestion -- I DID come up with
it all by myself here in the middle of the night!

Ken H.