GMC Parts: best place to buy?

[richard waters]

I'm a new owner of a 1976 Palm Beach. I live pretty close to Sandusky,
MI (home of Cinnabar and Buskirk).

I've been reading the GMC Net posting for a few days now. Cinnabar is
mentioned from time to time, but I get a sense that they are not the
preferred source for parts. Too expensive? Also, never hear about
Buskirk.

I read mentions of Alex Sirum and occasionally Cinnabar. Does anyone
have a recommendation of preferred sources of parts?

Thanks,

Richard
'76 Palm Beach
Troy, MI

 

[patrick flowers]

>
> I'm a new owner of a 1976 Palm Beach. I live pretty close to Sandusky,
> MI (home of Cinnabar and Buskirk).
>
> I've been reading the GMC Net posting for a few days now. Cinnabar is
> mentioned from time to time, but I get a sense that they are not the
> preferred source for parts. Too expensive? Also, never hear about
> Buskirk.
>
> I read mentions of Alex Sirum and occasionally Cinnabar. Does anyone
> have a recommendation of preferred sources of parts?

Cinnabar is the only source for OEM GMC Motorhome parts and absolutely
the only source for some parts. Really depends on what you're looking
for. If there's something in particular you're looking for, ask here
and we'll try to help.

Patrick
- --
Patrick Flowers
Mailtoatri63

The GMC Motorhome Page
http://www.gmcmotorhome.com

 

[bartz paul]

Richard:

I think you'll find over time, that you will do business with most all of
the GMC type businesses. Each of them have their specialities (e. g.
Buskirk, to my knowledge, is the only business (not individual) stretching
the coach).

Paul Bartz

P. S. Not that far from you, in Kalamazoo.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Richard Waters
To: GMC Net
Cc: digitek
Sent: 2/13/99 10:20 AM
Subject: GMC: GMC Parts: best place to buy?

I'm a new owner of a 1976 Palm Beach. I live pretty close to Sandusky,
MI (home of Cinnabar and Buskirk).

I've been reading the GMC Net posting for a few days now. Cinnabar is
mentioned from time to time, but I get a sense that they are not the
preferred source for parts. Too expensive? Also, never hear about
Buskirk.

I read mentions of Alex Sirum and occasionally Cinnabar. Does anyone
have a recommendation of preferred sources of parts?

Thanks,

Richard
'76 Palm Beach
Troy, MI

 

[zachary zehnacker]

Richard,

Many times Cinnabar is the only place to get parts. You can easily look up
the part you need in the parts book, call them up, and get that part. They
can be more expensive sometimes, but they seem to have the largest variety
of GMC parts. For more common items, you can usually call several of the
GMC suppliers (Cinnabar, Gateway, Golby, Jim Bounds, Sirum, Buskirk, etc)
and try to find the best price. Many of the GMC suppliers also offer
custom parts that are not available from the other suppliers.

Be warned though. Many of the GMC suppliers (yes even Cinnabar) will send
parts that are similar to the original GMC part but are not always the
same. This often ends up requiring modifications to the part, the GMC, or
both. In many cases we have received parts that didn't perform as well as
the original, some that would have required too much modification, and some
that wouldn't even work at all. There is nothing worse than spending time,
money, and making modifications for a part that isn't even as good as the
one it replaced. It might be worth asking how well the parts "bolt in"
when calling around. Since you are close to some of the suppliers, it
might even be worth a trip for some of the more expensive parts to see just
how well they match up with the original part. If a part looks like it
will be difficult to install, you might be better off looking outside the
GMC market for an improved part. At least then, any modifications you have
to make will be towards an improvement.

Zak

PS - In response to "but I get a sense that they are not the preferred
source for parts", I must say that their parts supply capabilities have not
been questioned. They are a very good GMC parts supplier. Most of the
problems mentioned here, IMHO, have only to do with advertisements
appearing as "technical articles" (IMO) in their newsletters.

>I'm a new owner of a 1976 Palm Beach. I live pretty close to Sandusky,
>MI (home of Cinnabar and Buskirk).
>
>I've been reading the GMC Net posting for a few days now. Cinnabar is
>mentioned from time to time, but I get a sense that they are not the
>preferred source for parts. Too expensive? Also, never hear about
>Buskirk.
>
>I read mentions of Alex Sirum and occasionally Cinnabar. Does anyone
>have a recommendation of preferred sources of parts?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Richard
>'76 Palm Beach
>Troy, MI
>

 

[hdavis]

>I'm a new owner of a 1976 Palm Beach. I live pretty close to Sandusky,
>MI (home of Cinnabar and Buskirk).
>
>I've been reading the GMC Net posting for a few days now. Cinnabar is
>mentioned from time to time, but I get a sense that they are not the
>preferred source for parts. Too expensive?

Cinnabar is the sole licensee from GMC (at least as far as I can tell) for
GMC motorhome replacement parts and technical support. They have among
other things, the right to reprint the GMC MH manuals and appear to have a
huge amount of GMC's technical and design information available so that
they can qualify new suppliers of replacement parts.

I think that most folks consider CInnabar to be an excellent supplier of
GMC OEM replacement parts providing that price is not a major factor. For
some parts you can get "the same" replacements from another supplier for a
lower cost. Sometimes "the same" means identical parts from the same
manufacturer, sometimes it means parts that will work, and occassionally it
means parts that look the same but are inferior in some fashion.

Providing he's in town, Wes is a terrific source of technical information
and a strong GMC MH advocate. He's always taken his time with me when I've
called - even when he wasn't going to make a sale that day. (BTW, Wes
doesn't take orders for parts, you have to call Michigan for that).

The major beef with Cinnabar from some folks is their position on upgrades
to the GMC. To be fair, when I've talked to Wes he's been pretty upfront
about whether or not his company offers upgrades in the same category as an
alternate supplier.So, I've personally found him to be ethical in that
area. Wes is adamant about changes to the GMC's suspension, brakes, and a
few other topics - no retrofits to disk brakes, no offset front wheels to
match the rear track, and some others. As a GMC licensee I don't think that
he has an option. Cinnabar has made a significant effort in qualifying new
components in my opinion. The safest thing for GMC to do is say no to
anything that in any way changes the suspension geometry. Cinnabar did go
through enough engineering analysis to say that the Alcoa wheel with its
greater offset (not much) was acceptable for the MH. This makes the part an
officially sanctioned replacement (for what it's worth) and legal for
several DOT regulations (according to Cinnabar).

I think that Cinnabar is mostly criticized in three areas: their negative
position on suspension upgrades, a feeling by some that Cinnabar advocates
some products that they sell by less-than-objective articles in the
Cinnabar newsletter, and price. I am NOT commenting on whether or not the
articles are fair - decide for yourself.

I think that if you understand Wes' position on supension upgrades then the
negative commentary on upgrades is more easily understood. The best way to
read and understand Wes' articles etc is to read them and substitute
General Motors for Cinnabar. Cinnabar speaks for GMC on the motor home. I
believe that Cinnabar has legal reastrictions as a result. In many ways
this is like asking a new car dealer for their comments on modifying your
car with aftermarket suspension parts. Some will give you engineering
information, but most just say "no" due to the liability in case something
goes wrong. It's up to you to determine for yourself if a technical article
in fact specifically and objectively assesses the acceptability of an
upgrade or alternate replacement part. Most people don't know that Cinnabar
in Michigan will put upgrades on your GMC even if Wes doesn't believe that
the upgrades don't do any good. I haven't asked about disk brakes.

A number of folks have criticized Cinnabar for their pricing: sometimes you
can find exactly the same part for less than 50% of Cinnabar's price. I
consider this complaint to be one of perspective. Some folks will gladly
pay the extra for the convenience of "one stop shopping." Others will shop
around. To me it's just like buying a part from GM or from NAPA. Generally
the OEM parts are pricey compared to aftermarket alternatives.

Cinnabar doesn't have a lock on GMC replacement parts. There are high
quality companies that supply a wide range of parts for your GMC. If you
need original fiberglass parts, the molds are owned by another company.
Other companies focus on specific parts of the GMC - curtains, rebuilt
steering box, transmission, engines, wheels, etc.

You need to make your own decisions about suppliers. People on the GMCnet
can provide you with feedback and opinions - and facts - about the
suppliers and their parts/service. I have purchased parts from about a half
a dozen companies including Cinnabar. I try to give Cinnabar some business
regardless of price because I want them to be around for a long time. I
also buy from others.

You will also find great deals through people here on GMCnet. There's also
a variety of parts research projects going on - for example, Scott Nehoda
came up with a very low cost way to replace rusted rails, there was a
recent posting about getting Ramco mirrors at wholesale, engine rebuilders
and transmission exchanges have also been topics.

Henry
Henry Davis Consulting, Inc / new product consulting
PO Box 1270 / product readiness reviews
Soquel, Ca 95073 / IP reviews
ph: (408) 462-5199 / full service marketing
fax: (408) 462-5198
http://www.henry-davis.com/ http://www.henry-davis.com

 

[richard waters]

Thanks for the info:
Richard

> >
> > I'm a new owner of a 1976 Palm Beach. I live pretty close to Sandusky,
> > MI (home of Cinnabar and Buskirk).
> >
> > I've been reading the GMC Net posting for a few days now. Cinnabar is
> > mentioned from time to time, but I get a sense that they are not the
> > preferred source for parts. Too expensive? Also, never hear about
> > Buskirk.
> >
> > I read mentions of Alex Sirum and occasionally Cinnabar. Does anyone
> > have a recommendation of preferred sources of parts?
>
> Cinnabar is the only source for OEM GMC Motorhome parts and absolutely
> the only source for some parts. Really depends on what you're looking
> for. If there's something in particular you're looking for, ask here
> and we'll try to help.
>
> Patrick
> --
> Patrick Flowers
> Mailtoatri63
>
> The GMC Motorhome Page
> http://www.gmcmotorhome.com

 

[richard waters]

Thanks for the response. Gee I used to live in Kalamzoo (6 years), went to
WMU way back when.
Richard W.
'76 Palm Beach
- -----

> Richard:
>
> I think you'll find over time, that you will do business with most all of
> the GMC type businesses. Each of them have their specialities (e. g.
> Buskirk, to my knowledge, is the only business (not individual) stretching
> the coach).
>
> Paul Bartz
>
> P. S. Not that far from you, in Kalamazoo.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Waters
> To: GMC Net
> Cc: digitek
> Sent: 2/13/99 10:20 AM
> Subject: GMC: GMC Parts: best place to buy?
>
> I'm a new owner of a 1976 Palm Beach. I live pretty close to Sandusky,
> MI (home of Cinnabar and Buskirk).
>
> I've been reading the GMC Net posting for a few days now. Cinnabar is
> mentioned from time to time, but I get a sense that they are not the
> preferred source for parts. Too expensive? Also, never hear about
> Buskirk.
>
> I read mentions of Alex Sirum and occasionally Cinnabar. Does anyone
> have a recommendation of preferred sources of parts?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Richard
> '76 Palm Beach
> Troy, MI

 

[richard waters]

Thanks for the information on sources of GMC parts. It is sure good to know
that there are numerous sources for many of the parts that we will all need to
sustain us in our hobby.

We bought our '76 Palm Beach off the lawn at Cinnabar in Michigan. Cinnabar
allows GMC owners to park their coaches there at no charge for the purpose of
displaying "used coaches for sale". We originally went Cinnabar to consult
with Ivan Henderson on upgrade possibilities of a couple of other GMCs that we
had our eyes on. During our visit asked us if we had bought one yet and when we
said we had not, he showed us the one we bought. We liked it from the
beginning as ended up getting it for a good price.

We became interested in getting a GMC because our next door neighbor is the
original owner of a '73 23' Canyon Lands. We have been looking at and riding
in it for the past 20 years.

By the way, it sounds like we bought ours for some of the same reasons that you
bought yours for. That is to have a mobile office (I visited your web site)
for my business.

Thanks again,

Richard W.
- -------

> >I'm a new owner of a 1976 Palm Beach. I live pretty close to Sandusky,
> >MI (home of Cinnabar and Buskirk).
> >
> >I've been reading the GMC Net posting for a few days now. Cinnabar is
> >mentioned from time to time, but I get a sense that they are not the
> >preferred source for parts. Too expensive?
>
> Cinnabar is the sole licensee from GMC (at least as far as I can tell) for
> GMC motorhome replacement parts and technical support. They have among
> other things, the right to reprint the GMC MH manuals and appear to have a
> huge amount of GMC's technical and design information available so that
> they can qualify new suppliers of replacement parts.
>
> I think that most folks consider CInnabar to be an excellent supplier of
> GMC OEM replacement parts providing that price is not a major factor. For
> some parts you can get "the same" replacements from another supplier for a
> lower cost. Sometimes "the same" means identical parts from the same
> manufacturer, sometimes it means parts that will work, and occassionally it
> means parts that look the same but are inferior in some fashion.
>
> Providing he's in town, Wes is a terrific source of technical information
> and a strong GMC MH advocate. He's always taken his time with me when I've
> called - even when he wasn't going to make a sale that day. (BTW, Wes
> doesn't take orders for parts, you have to call Michigan for that).
>
> The major beef with Cinnabar from some folks is their position on upgrades
> to the GMC. To be fair, when I've talked to Wes he's been pretty upfront
> about whether or not his company offers upgrades in the same category as an
> alternate supplier.So, I've personally found him to be ethical in that
> area. Wes is adamant about changes to the GMC's suspension, brakes, and a
> few other topics - no retrofits to disk brakes, no offset front wheels to
> match the rear track, and some others. As a GMC licensee I don't think that
> he has an option. Cinnabar has made a significant effort in qualifying new
> components in my opinion. The safest thing for GMC to do is say no to
> anything that in any way changes the suspension geometry. Cinnabar did go
> through enough engineering analysis to say that the Alcoa wheel with its
> greater offset (not much) was acceptable for the MH. This makes the part an
> officially sanctioned replacement (for what it's worth) and legal for
> several DOT regulations (according to Cinnabar).
>
> I think that Cinnabar is mostly criticized in three areas: their negative
> position on suspension upgrades, a feeling by some that Cinnabar advocates
> some products that they sell by less-than-objective articles in the
> Cinnabar newsletter, and price. I am NOT commenting on whether or not the
> articles are fair - decide for yourself.
>
> I think that if you understand Wes' position on supension upgrades then the
> negative commentary on upgrades is more easily understood. The best way to
> read and understand Wes' articles etc is to read them and substitute
> General Motors for Cinnabar. Cinnabar speaks for GMC on the motor home. I
> believe that Cinnabar has legal reastrictions as a result. In many ways
> this is like asking a new car dealer for their comments on modifying your
> car with aftermarket suspension parts. Some will give you engineering
> information, but most just say "no" due to the liability in case something
> goes wrong. It's up to you to determine for yourself if a technical article
> in fact specifically and objectively assesses the acceptability of an
> upgrade or alternate replacement part. Most people don't know that Cinnabar
> in Michigan will put upgrades on your GMC even if Wes doesn't believe that
> the upgrades don't do any good. I haven't asked about disk brakes.
>
> A number of folks have criticized Cinnabar for their pricing: sometimes you
> can find exactly the same part for less than 50% of Cinnabar's price. I
> consider this complaint to be one of perspective. Some folks will gladly
> pay the extra for the convenience of "one stop shopping." Others will shop
> around. To me it's just like buying a part from GM or from NAPA. Generally
> the OEM parts are pricey compared to aftermarket alternatives.
>
> Cinnabar doesn't have a lock on GMC replacement parts. There are high
> quality companies that supply a wide range of parts for your GMC. If you
> need original fiberglass parts, the molds are owned by another company.
> Other companies focus on specific parts of the GMC - curtains, rebuilt
> steering box, transmission, engines, wheels, etc.
>
> You need to make your own decisions about suppliers. People on the GMCnet
> can provide you with feedback and opinions - and facts - about the
> suppliers and their parts/service. I have purchased parts from about a half
> a dozen companies including Cinnabar. I try to give Cinnabar some business
> regardless of price because I want them to be around for a long time. I
> also buy from others.
>
> You will also find great deals through people here on GMCnet. There's also
> a variety of parts research projects going on - for example, Scott Nehoda
> came up with a very low cost way to replace rusted rails, there was a
> recent posting about getting Ramco mirrors at wholesale, engine rebuilders
> and transmission exchanges have also been topics.
>
> Henry
> Henry Davis Consulting, Inc / new product consulting
> PO Box 1270 / product readiness reviews
> Soquel, Ca 95073 / IP reviews
> ph: (408) 462-5199 / full service marketing
> fax: (408) 462-5198
> http://www.henry-davis.com/ http://www.henry-davis.com

 

[richard waters]

Zack:

Thanks for thanking the time to give me that good advise and excellent
information. This GMC net is sure going to be a good source of info for my new
hobby.

Richard Waters
- ----

> Richard,
>
> Many times Cinnabar is the only place to get parts. You can easily look up
> the part you need in the parts book, call them up, and get that part. They
> can be more expensive sometimes, but they seem to have the largest variety
> of GMC parts. For more common items, you can usually call several of the
> GMC suppliers (Cinnabar, Gateway, Golby, Jim Bounds, Sirum, Buskirk, etc)
> and try to find the best price. Many of the GMC suppliers also offer
> custom parts that are not available from the other suppliers.
>
> Be warned though. Many of the GMC suppliers (yes even Cinnabar) will send
> parts that are similar to the original GMC part but are not always the
> same. This often ends up requiring modifications to the part, the GMC, or
> both. In many cases we have received parts that didn't perform as well as
> the original, some that would have required too much modification, and some
> that wouldn't even work at all. There is nothing worse than spending time,
> money, and making modifications for a part that isn't even as good as the
> one it replaced. It might be worth asking how well the parts "bolt in"
> when calling around. Since you are close to some of the suppliers, it
> might even be worth a trip for some of the more expensive parts to see just
> how well they match up with the original part. If a part looks like it
> will be difficult to install, you might be better off looking outside the
> GMC market for an improved part. At least then, any modifications you have
> to make will be towards an improvement.
>
> Zak
>
> PS - In response to "but I get a sense that they are not the preferred
> source for parts", I must say that their parts supply capabilities have not
> been questioned. They are a very good GMC parts supplier. Most of the
> problems mentioned here, IMHO, have only to do with advertisements
> appearing as "technical articles" (IMO) in their newsletters.
>

> >I'm a new owner of a 1976 Palm Beach. I live pretty close to Sandusky,
> >MI (home of Cinnabar and Buskirk).
> >
> >I've been reading the GMC Net posting for a few days now. Cinnabar is
> >mentioned from time to time, but I get a sense that they are not the
> >preferred source for parts. Too expensive? Also, never hear about
> >Buskirk.
> >
> >I read mentions of Alex Sirum and occasionally Cinnabar. Does anyone
> >have a recommendation of preferred sources of parts?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Richard
> >'76 Palm Beach
> >Troy, MI
> >

 

[heinz wittenbecher]

>In a message dated 2/13/99 9:20:07 AM Central Standard Time,

>
> have a recommendation of preferred sources of parts? >>
>
>You have opened up the worm can, methinks, but here is my take: I like em'
>all. I like the fact that they are all there. I share (transfer?) my wealth
>with several of those mentioned. Larry Nelson, springfield, MO, PB-75
>

Well said Larry.

I join in wholeheartedly.
I'd like to point out that it's nice to not have to worry about parts
availability anymore. Even here in the area furthest removed from the mecca
of GMC's I find that I can pick up the phone and get my parts the next day
if need be.

And if I don't know who to call, our buds on net help out in a flash

A quick "For What Its Worth": My first choice for straight replacement parts
is to always GM (Delco, etc) regardless of the source/place of purchase.
Have had my share of disapointments when I've had to use alternatives. Of
course there are exceptions, i.e. wheels, shocks, etc.

Enjoy the buggy.

Heinz
'76 Transmode, Langley BC
www.bytedesigns.com/gmc

 

[john dolan]

>I've been reading the GMC Net posting for a few days now. Cinnabar is
>mentioned from time to time, but I get a sense that they are not the
>preferred source for parts. Too expensive?

Huh, I've been reading the GMC Net posting for 8 months and I got
the same sense, as you did. I might add that I have never seen such
an outpouring of positive statements on the subject as those in
response to your candid question! (kind of a pendulum effect)

I think we can say we have achieved balance.

PS... I'm still waiting on a response to Zak's question. My guess is
they forwarded it to the author, to explain the apparent inconsistency.
The fact that they did not have a prepared response indicates to me, that
Zak may have been the first to pick it up, since it appeared in the
September Newsletter.

- --
Regards,
John 74 Glacier near Washington, DC.

 

[loren \(skip\) newhouse]

> >...... Be warned though. Many of the GMC suppliers (yes even Cinnabar) will
> send
> > parts that are similar to the original GMC part but are not always the
> > same.
> >
> If you want Genuine GM parts, go to"http://www.gmgoodwrench.com/index.htm" and
> find out if GM still handles it. You might be surprised. Also understand that you
> might get a part over the GM dealer's part counter that is not Genuine GM OEM.
> Dealerships are not obligated to sell only GM parts.

Skip Newhouse'75 Avion
Western MD

>
>

 

[patrick flowers]

>
> >I've been reading the GMC Net posting for a few days now. Cinnabar is
> >mentioned from time to time, but I get a sense that they are not the
> >preferred source for parts. Too expensive?
>
> Huh, I've been reading the GMC Net posting for 8 months and I got
> the same sense, as you did. I might add that I have never seen such
> an outpouring of positive statements on the subject as those in
> response to your candid question! (kind of a pendulum effect)
>
> I think we can say we have achieved balance.

John, you're confusing two unrelated issues. Cinnabar is a fine
organization and, AFAIK, Wes is a fine person. I've never been
disappointed with their products or service. Now Wes has decided to
publish a periodical in which he publishes his opinions. It shouldn't
surprise anyone that this opens him up to public criticism by those that
don't share his opinions.

I think if you review the archives, you'll find very little criticism of
Cinnabar and much criticim of Wes' opinions. Two very different issues.

Also, don't confuse criticism with dislike.

Patrick
- --
Patrick Flowers
Mailtoatri63

The GMC Motorhome Page
http://www.gmcmotorhome.com

 

[thomas g. warner]

I have a hard time thinking that cinnabar is selling non-GM parts, when it
is licensed \by GM. Everything that I have ordered from them comes in a GM
parts box, saying it is a genuine GM part. What have you seen Cinnabar sell
that is not a genuine GM part?

>
>
>
>> >...... Be warned though. Many of the GMC suppliers (yes even Cinnabar) will
>> send
>> > parts that are similar to the original GMC part but are not always the
>> > same.
>> >
>> If you want Genuine GM parts, go
to"http://www.gmgoodwrench.com/index.htm" and
>> find out if GM still handles it. You might be surprised. Also understand
that you
>> might get a part over the GM dealer's part counter that is not Genuine GM
OEM.
>> Dealerships are not obligated to sell only GM parts.
>
>Skip Newhouse'75 Avion
>Western MD
>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach

 

[zachary zehnacker]

Tom,

First, let me say that most of the parts we got from Cinnabar were fine.
I'm just trying to let people know that some of the original parts are just
not available anymore. In those cases, substitutions are made. In most
cases, these substitutions are made without a warning from the GMC
suppliers that the parts are not the same as original.

Originally, everything we got from Cinnabar came in a GM box or had a GM
part# on it. During the frame off, however, we received many parts that
were not marked with GM numbers or in GM boxes. This made us think that
the parts were not GM. I don't remember specifically which parts came with
GM #s and which did not since we ordered many things from them. Maybe they
were all GM even though they did not all have numbers on them. I do know
that there were fitment problems with some of the parts though.

I am thinking that while they are the only ones that are licensed to sell
GM parts for the GMC, that license does not stop them from selling other
suppliers' parts or other GM parts. It also doesn't stop them from selling
some improved parts. These include Bilsteins, Alcoas, the high quality air
tank check valve, etc.

Many of the GMC parts are not made by GM anymore. Therefor, other GM
parts, or maybe parts from other suppliers, are substituted. Just because
it says it is a GM part does not mean that it is the same as the original
GMC part. IMO, many of the GM parts sent are just the closest part GM now
makes to the OEM GMC part. In these cases, we have sometimes found
differences that made the parts unusable or requiring modifications for
use. In other cases, the parts were much improved over the original. The
fuel sender gasket is an example of this improvement. The originals were
simply a rubber O-ring, while the new ones have a metal center which
guarantees that the gaskets are properly located.

Here is a list of a couple of things we got that needed modifications.

We got lower ball joints from them that needed grinding to fit in the
control arms. Unfortunately, we had already painted them since we figured
that they would be correct. These ball joints were obviously not the same
as the OEM or the replacements that we were replacing.

We got a new door gasket. This was in a GM box and had a GM number. It
was quite a bit larger than it should have been which required us to cut
and shorten it to get it to fit properly.

We also got a new headlight switch. I don't remember if it had a GM# or
not. Either way, the knob is not even close to the OEM knob. It required
us to cut a larger hole in the plastic dash face so that we didn't have to
pull off the knob every time we wanted to remove the dash face. The OEM
knob did not require this. Some warning should have been given to indicate
that the replacement would.

Some other small things were not worth modifying or could not be modified.
Brake line clips that were too small are one thing that comes to mind. I
know there were others, but I don't remember them all.

We have had a similar experience with Gateway. They sent us a fuel
selector valve that was MUCH more restrictive than the original. It also
required a totally different mount which we had to fabricate ourselves.
This valve was not worth making any modifications for. We found one on our
own that was much better than the OEM one. It also required a mounting
bracket to be fabricated, but we felt that the high quality made it
worthwhile.

We don't have much experience with the other GMC suppliers, but I suspect
they wouldn't be too much different. For these reasons, I am suggesting
that GMCers ask some questions when replacing important/expensive parts
instead of just blindly trusting that a GMC supplier will send them the
"correct" part. The "correct" part may no longer be available. In some
cases, different GMC suppliers may have a part that is more "correct" than
the others. Finding the best fit part may be much more important than the
price.

Zak

PS - Please note that the only reason we have so many experiences with
Cinnabar is because we order just about all of our parts from them. There
have been many exact parts sent to us as well. The range vent is a good
example of this. The part sent was EXACTLY the same part as OEM. I keep
sounding like I am down on Cinnabar, but I want to say that this is not the
case. IMO, we are very lucky to have a supplier of so many parts for our
GMCs.

>I have a hard time thinking that cinnabar is selling non-GM parts, when it
>is licensed \by GM. Everything that I have ordered from them comes in a GM
>parts box, saying it is a genuine GM part. What have you seen Cinnabar sell
>that is not a genuine GM part?

 

[john dolan]

Patrick...

I'm happy with the Balance as it stands now and I'm not confused. But I
am trying not to get into another argument, so you'll understand if I
don't pick your points apart and cite examples. I think it is self
evident that a new reader could get the wrong impression, as just
happened and I will restate that for you.

Richard Waters said:
> >I've been reading the GMC Net posting for a few days now. Cinnabar is
> >mentioned from time to time, but I get a sense that they are not the
> >preferred source for parts. Too expensive?

John Dolan said:
> Huh, I've been reading the GMC Net posting for 8 months and I
> got the same sense, as you did. I might add that I have never seen
> such an outpouring of positive statements on the subject as
> those in response to your candid question! (kind of a pendulum effect)
>
> I think we can say we have achieved balance.

I say it's over... Patrick

- --
Regards,
John 74 Glacier near Washington, DC.

 

[robert hopper]

I would like to add that they really helped me out of a jam. A month before
a trip to Alaska I was broadsided. I was able to limp it to Sandusky, and
within a week they had it already to go and for less than the insurance
company estimate.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Henry Davis
To:
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 1999 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: GMC: GMC Parts: best place to buy?

>>I'm a new owner of a 1976 Palm Beach. I live pretty close to Sandusky,
>>MI (home of Cinnabar and Buskirk).
>>
>>I've been reading the GMC Net posting for a few days now. Cinnabar is
>>mentioned from time to time, but I get a sense that they are not the
>>preferred source for parts. Too expensive?
>
>Cinnabar is the sole licensee from GMC (at least as far as I can tell) for
>GMC motorhome replacement parts and technical support. They have among
>other things, the right to reprint the GMC MH manuals and appear to have a
>huge amount of GMC's technical and design information available so that
>they can qualify new suppliers of replacement parts.
>
>I think that most folks consider CInnabar to be an excellent supplier of
>GMC OEM replacement parts providing that price is not a major factor. For
>some parts you can get "the same" replacements from another supplier for a
>lower cost. Sometimes "the same" means identical parts from the same
>manufacturer, sometimes it means parts that will work, and occassionally it
>means parts that look the same but are inferior in some fashion.
>
>Providing he's in town, Wes is a terrific source of technical information
>and a strong GMC MH advocate. He's always taken his time with me when I've
>called - even when he wasn't going to make a sale that day. (BTW, Wes
>doesn't take orders for parts, you have to call Michigan for that).
>
>The major beef with Cinnabar from some folks is their position on upgrades
>to the GMC. To be fair, when I've talked to Wes he's been pretty upfront
>about whether or not his company offers upgrades in the same category as an
>alternate supplier.So, I've personally found him to be ethical in that
>area. Wes is adamant about changes to the GMC's suspension, brakes, and a
>few other topics - no retrofits to disk brakes, no offset front wheels to
>match the rear track, and some others. As a GMC licensee I don't think that
>he has an option. Cinnabar has made a significant effort in qualifying new
>components in my opinion. The safest thing for GMC to do is say no to
>anything that in any way changes the suspension geometry. Cinnabar did go
>through enough engineering analysis to say that the Alcoa wheel with its
>greater offset (not much) was acceptable for the MH. This makes the part an
>officially sanctioned replacement (for what it's worth) and legal for
>several DOT regulations (according to Cinnabar).
>
>
>I think that Cinnabar is mostly criticized in three areas: their negative
>position on suspension upgrades, a feeling by some that Cinnabar advocates
>some products that they sell by less-than-objective articles in the
>Cinnabar newsletter, and price. I am NOT commenting on whether or not the
>articles are fair - decide for yourself.
>
>I think that if you understand Wes' position on supension upgrades then the
>negative commentary on upgrades is more easily understood. The best way to
>read and understand Wes' articles etc is to read them and substitute
>General Motors for Cinnabar. Cinnabar speaks for GMC on the motor home. I
>believe that Cinnabar has legal reastrictions as a result. In many ways
>this is like asking a new car dealer for their comments on modifying your
>car with aftermarket suspension parts. Some will give you engineering
>information, but most just say "no" due to the liability in case something
>goes wrong. It's up to you to determine for yourself if a technical article
>in fact specifically and objectively assesses the acceptability of an
>upgrade or alternate replacement part. Most people don't know that Cinnabar
>in Michigan will put upgrades on your GMC even if Wes doesn't believe that
>the upgrades don't do any good. I haven't asked about disk brakes.
>
>A number of folks have criticized Cinnabar for their pricing: sometimes you
>can find exactly the same part for less than 50% of Cinnabar's price. I
>consider this complaint to be one of perspective. Some folks will gladly
>pay the extra for the convenience of "one stop shopping." Others will shop
>around. To me it's just like buying a part from GM or from NAPA. Generally
>the OEM parts are pricey compared to aftermarket alternatives.
>
>Cinnabar doesn't have a lock on GMC replacement parts. There are high
>quality companies that supply a wide range of parts for your GMC. If you
>need original fiberglass parts, the molds are owned by another company.
>Other companies focus on specific parts of the GMC - curtains, rebuilt
>steering box, transmission, engines, wheels, etc.
>
>You need to make your own decisions about suppliers. People on the GMCnet
>can provide you with feedback and opinions - and facts - about the
>suppliers and their parts/service. I have purchased parts from about a half
>a dozen companies including Cinnabar. I try to give Cinnabar some business
>regardless of price because I want them to be around for a long time. I
>also buy from others.
>
>You will also find great deals through people here on GMCnet. There's also
>a variety of parts research projects going on - for example, Scott Nehoda
>came up with a very low cost way to replace rusted rails, there was a
>recent posting about getting Ramco mirrors at wholesale, engine rebuilders
>and transmission exchanges have also been topics.
>
>Henry
>Henry Davis Consulting, Inc / new product consulting
>PO Box 1270 / product readiness reviews
>Soquel, Ca 95073 / IP reviews
>ph: (408) 462-5199 / full service marketing
>fax: (408) 462-5198
>http://www.henry-davis.com/ http://www.henry-davis.com
>
>