GMC Motorhome Digest V2 #444

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bartz paul

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Dec 3, 1997
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Duane:

I'll repeat it again, I know an individual who called Michelin tech support
to ask what steel sidewall tires gain you. His answer was extra weight
carrying capacity.

Paul Bartz

From: duane m simmons [mailto:simmee]
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 1999 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: GMC: GMC Motorhome Digest V2 #444

Pete Papas
I think both tires that you are looking at are "Rag Wall" tires not "Steel
Sidewall tires". The "Rag Wall" Tires will give you better steering control
in the hwy Ruts, but they will not last very long in our GMC application. I
know of 3 cases where the "Rag Wall" tires began to Blow Out after 2 years
of operation. In fact one person lost 4 tires in one trip w/Rag Walls & the
Tire Company replaced All 7 tires at no cost because they stated that the
Rag Walls should never been sold for the GMC application. I am a FIRM
Believer in "All Steel" Tires of Bridgestone/Goodyear/Michelin brand ONLY.
All other tires are of short life which can cause much much body damage when
the BLOW. Don't believe the sales person in terms of what the side walls
are configured. Look at the marking on the tire & verify that they have one
ply steel for the side wall. This way you know what you are getting. "Rag
Walls" are a No No IMHO. Its false economy to purchase a cheap tire for our
coaches. I find that COSTCO is hard to beat in terms of cost & quality of
service when you are Tire shoping.
 
I vote with you Duane and also think that it is a myth.

>Those concerned
>IMHO I think the need for a special engine Water Pump is blown way out of
>proportion & is a Myth that needs to be recognized. Here in the West you
>will not find a more demanding condition for cooling our Engine with the
>Desert/Mountains that we encounter all the time. In fact, the so called
>high flow special water pumps may be counter productive since the water
>flows through the radiator so quick that it does not have time to remove
>the heat effectively. I & many of our local club members have great
>success using the standard Heavy TRW or AirTek water pump listed for Olds
>455 w/air condition. Cost is about $60 w/lifetime warranty.
>That's my Option for what it's worth.
>The most demanding cooling component is the Fan Clutch. My choice is the
>Haden # 2797 (sever duty)..
>
>Sincerely
>Duane
>
>___________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
>
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach
"The beautiful Mohawk Vally"
 
Although I did not buy my Michelins there, I found that Sams Club had the
best price on Tires Michelin XPS,LT225-75R16 E, $115/each. the reason that
I did not get them there is because they were not listed as a warranty
dealer for Michelin.

>Pete Papas
>I think both tires that you are looking at are "Rag Wall" tires not
>"Steel Sidewall tires". The "Rag Wall" Tires will give you better
>steering control in the hwy Ruts, but they will not last very long in our
>GMC application. I know of 3 cases where the "Rag Wall" tires began to
>Blow Out after 2 years of operation. In fact one person lost 4 tires in
>one trip w/Rag Walls & the Tire Company replaced All 7 tires at no cost
>because they stated that the Rag Walls should never been sold for the
>GMC application. I am a FIRM Believer in "All Steel" Tires of
>Bridgestone/Goodyear/Michelin brand ONLY. All other tires are of short
>life which can cause much much body damage when the BLOW.
>Don't believe the sales person in terms of what the side walls are
>configured. Look at the marking on the tire & verify that they have one
>ply steel for the side wall. This way you know what you are getting.
>"Rag Walls" are a No No IMHO. Its false economy to purchase a cheap tire
>for our coaches. I find that COSTCO is hard to beat in terms of cost &
>quality of service when you are Tire shoping.
>
>Sincerely
>Duane Simmons
>
>___________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
>
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach
"The beautiful Mohawk Vally"
 
Paul I am sure that you do not really believe that. This subject will be
covered again in the upcoming issue of GMC motorhome news by Wes Caughlan.
Michelin engineers told me that the full steel sidewalls were necessary for
the GMC motorhome because 1) front wheel drive puts tremendous sidewall
forces when turning at speed over loading them by over 2:1. 2) the rear
suspension puts stresses on the sidewalls that bias tires cannot handle.The
extra weight bearing capacity is only one aspect of the necessity of E rated
tires.

>Duane:
>
>I'll repeat it again, I know an individual who called Michelin tech support
>to ask what steel sidewall tires gain you. His answer was extra weight
>carrying capacity.
>
> Paul Bartz
>
>From: duane m simmons [mailto:simmee]
>Sent: Thursday, May 13, 1999 3:30 PM
>Subject: Re: GMC: GMC Motorhome Digest V2 #444
>
>Pete Papas
>I think both tires that you are looking at are "Rag Wall" tires not "Steel
>Sidewall tires". The "Rag Wall" Tires will give you better steering control
>in the hwy Ruts, but they will not last very long in our GMC application. I
>know of 3 cases where the "Rag Wall" tires began to Blow Out after 2 years
>of operation. In fact one person lost 4 tires in one trip w/Rag Walls & the
>Tire Company replaced All 7 tires at no cost because they stated that the
>Rag Walls should never been sold for the GMC application. I am a FIRM
>Believer in "All Steel" Tires of Bridgestone/Goodyear/Michelin brand ONLY.
>All other tires are of short life which can cause much much body damage when
>the BLOW. Don't believe the sales person in terms of what the side walls
>are configured. Look at the marking on the tire & verify that they have one
>ply steel for the side wall. This way you know what you are getting. "Rag
>Walls" are a No No IMHO. Its false economy to purchase a cheap tire for our
>coaches. I find that COSTCO is hard to beat in terms of cost & quality of
>service when you are Tire shoping.
>
>
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach
"The beautiful Mohawk Vally"
 
In reality Arch we agree most of the time. sometimes as I said before we are
describing opposite ends of the elephant. Persistence makes everything
right and sooner or later we both end up at the trunk. One thing I do know
Arch. the day after you retire, your IQ doubles. At least it seems that way.
Or maybe it is 1/2. Can't remember!

>In a message dated 5/13/99 9:14:31 PM Central Daylight Time, warner
>writes:
>
>> I vote with you Duane and also think that it is a myth.
>
>Hey Tom
>
>We agree on this one.
>
>Take Care
>Arch
>
>
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach
"The beautiful Mohawk Vally"
 
Tom:

I don't see any concern over sidewall forces in the way our vs. any other
(i. e. rear wheel drive) coach is driven/used. 99.9% of our driving is in a
straight line. Now if you lived in Michigan and see the 32 wheel truck
TRAILERS hauling up to 80 tons cargo, allowed in this state, that would have
the potential of generating some force's we could talk about! I don't see
them blowing tires going down the road????

I'm also skeptical of the over loading factor you say they claim. Give me
the name and phone of the engineer you talked to so I can talk to him.

Using the word "tremendous .." is over dramatization and may be fine in
theory, but I and many others are and have been using non-steel side wall
tires without any problems. In fact they were recommended to me as the
currently best available tire by one of the GMC guru's who also comes from a
racing background. I'm not aware Wes has any such experience.

What side wall stresses do you see being put on our rear tires that are any
different than those experienced by other coach's??? Certainly ours have
less because they are not drive wheels.

Paul Bartz

From: Tom Warner [mailto:warner]
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 1999 10:26 PM
Subject: RE: GMC: GMC Motorhome Digest V2 #444

Paul I am sure that you do not really believe that. This subject will be
covered again in the upcoming issue of GMC motorhome news by Wes Caughlan.
Michelin engineers told me that the full steel sidewalls were necessary for
the GMC motorhome because 1) front wheel drive puts tremendous sidewall
forces when turning at speed over loading them by over 2:1. 2) the rear
suspension puts stresses on the sidewalls that bias tires cannot handle. The
extra weight bearing capacity is only one aspect of the necessity of E rated
tires.

Duane:

I'll repeat it again, I know an individual who called Michelin tech support
to ask what steel sidewall tires gain you. His answer was extra weight
carrying capacity.

Paul Bartz

From: duane m simmons [mailto:simmee]
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 1999 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: GMC: GMC Motorhome Digest V2 #444

Pete Papas

I think both tires that you are looking at are "Rag Wall" tires not "Steel
Sidewall tires". The "Rag Wall" Tires will give you better steering control
in the hwy Ruts, but they will not last very long in our GMC application. I
know of 3 cases where the "Rag Wall" tires began to Blow Out after 2 years
of operation. In fact one person lost 4 tires in one trip w/Rag Walls & the
Tire Company replaced All 7 tires at no cost because they stated that the
Rag Walls should never been sold for the GMC application. I am a FIRM
Believer in "All Steel" Tires of Bridgestone/Goodyear/Michelin brand ONLY.
All other tires are of short life which can cause much much body damage when
the BLOW. Don't believe the sales person in terms of what the side walls
are configured. Look at the marking on the tire & verify that they have one
ply steel for the side wall. This way you know what you are getting. "Rag
Walls" are a No No IMHO. Its false economy to purchase a cheap tire for our
coaches. I find that COSTCO is hard to beat in terms of cost & quality of
service when you are Tire shoping.
 
Arch:

I've said previously some months back that I know another individual, who's
on his third GMC, who for year's has used a stock Olds water pump and has no
over heating problems.

Paul Bartz

From: Gcbr [mailto:Gcbr]
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 1999 9:47 PM
Subject: Re: GMC: GMC Motorhome Digest V2 #444

In a message dated 5/13/99 2:32:06 PM Central Daylight Time, simmee

writes:

Those concerned IMHO I think the need for a special engine Water Pump is
blown way out of proportion & is a Myth that needs to be recognized. Here
in the West you will not find a more demanding condition for cooling our
Engine with the Desert/Mountains that we encounter all the time. In fact,
the so called

Duane

THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!!! You know if we all keep working on this then
owning a GMC wont mean. Get More Cash. Glade to see some of the heavy
weights weigh in on this.( This is in no a reference to the persons body
weight )
 
I should have mentioned that Autozone wants $24.95 + $5.00 core charge for a
77/78 Olds 403 cid engine w/AC water pump. Pretty good??? Think I'll get
it for a spare.

Paul Bartz

From: Bartz, Paul [mailto:s9d3452]
Sent: Friday, May 14, 1999 11:37 AM
Subject: RE: GMC: GMC Motorhome Digest V2 #444

Arch:

I've said previously some months back that I know another individual, who's
on his third GMC, who for year's has used a stock Olds water pump and has no
over heating problems.

Paul Bartz

From: Gcbr [mailto:Gcbr]
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 1999 9:47 PM
Subject: Re: GMC: GMC Motorhome Digest V2 #444

In a message dated 5/13/99 2:32:06 PM Central Daylight Time, simmee
writes:

Those concerned IMHO I think the need for a special engine Water Pump is
blown way out of proportion & is a Myth that needs to be recognized. Here
in the West you will not find a more demanding condition for cooling our
Engine with the Desert/Mountains that we encounter all the time. In fact,
the so called

Duane

THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!!! You know if we all keep working on this then
owning a GMC wont mean. Get More Cash. Glade to see some of the heavy
weights weigh in on this.( This is in no a reference to the persons body
weight )
 
Duane,
I got the Hayden 2797 just recently and installed it a few weeks ago. I
feel like I could have welded the fan shaft to the water pump pulley because
it hasn't disengaged yet, hot or cold. Certainly a waste of gas to turn the
fan all the time. I am going to pull it and downgrade to less clutch.

Phil Swanson
Bonita, CA
23' Canyonlands

>
>
> The most demanding cooling component is the Fan Clutch. My choice is the
> Haden # 2797 (sever duty)..
>
> Sincerely
> Duane
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
> or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
 
Phil Cant understand why your 2797 stays engaged all the time. I have the
same clutch on mine and the only time I hear it is at cold startup. I know a lot
of people use the 2797 and wonder if you got a defective one or if their quality
control leaves something to be desired.. Maybe you should get another 2797 and
try it when you take the old one off. Its guaranteed for life.
Bill 76 Edgemont

> Duane,
> I got the Hayden 2797 just recently and installed it a few weeks ago. I
> feel like I could have welded the fan shaft to the water pump pulley because
> it hasn't disengaged yet, hot or cold. Certainly a waste of gas to turn the
> fan all the time. I am going to pull it and downgrade to less clutch.
>
> Phil Swanson
> Bonita, CA
> 23' Canyonlands
>

>
> >
> >
> > The most demanding cooling component is the Fan Clutch. My choice is the
> > Haden # 2797 (sever duty)..
> >
> > Sincerely
> > Duane
> >
> > ___________________________________________________________________
> > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
> > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
 
Ditto.

Paul Bartz

From: Bill & Joan Satterfield [mailto:bsnjs]
Sent: Monday, May 17, 1999 10:37 AM
Subject: Re: GMC: GMC Motorhome Digest V2 #444

Phil Cant understand why your 2797 stays engaged all the time. I have
the same clutch on mine and the only time I hear it is at cold startup. I
know a lot of people use the 2797 and wonder if you got a defective one or
if their quality control leaves something to be desired.. Maybe you
should get another 2797 and try it when you take the old one off. Its
guaranteed for life.

Duane,

I got the Hayden 2797 just recently and installed it a few weeks ago. I
feel like I could have welded the fan shaft to the water pump pulley because
it hasn't disengaged yet, hot or cold. Certainly a waste of gas to turn the
fan all the time. I am going to pull it and downgrade to less clutch.
Phil Swanson

The most demanding cooling component is the Fan Clutch. My choice is the
Haden # 2797 (sever duty)..
 
Arch, The fan clutch should only engage when you need the fan
based on temperature. The Hayden 2797 I installed would not disengage. True, it
passes a lot of air ( no joke intended) but at the expense of performance and gas
mileage. I can't help but feel this is about the same as a solid fan with no
clutch. If so, why are we even bothering to run a fan clutch? I have removed
mine and gone back to the original GMC clutch. Everything works perfect again.

Regards, Phil

> Phil
>
> I can see that you are very unhappy---but could you tell us a little more.
> Whats the problem------on all of the time? Just give us a little more data.
> Thanks.
>
> Take Care
> Arch 76 GB IL
>
> In a message dated 5/16/99 11:22:59 PM Central Daylight Time, phil

>
> > I got the Hayden 2797 just recently and installed it a few weeks ago. I
> > feel like I could have welded the fan shaft to the water pump pulley
> because
> > it hasn't disengaged yet, hot or cold. Certainly a waste of gas to turn the
> > fan all the time. I am going to pull it and downgrade to less clutch.
> >
 
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