GMC Motorhome Digest V2 #219

[thomas g. warner]

I do not have a set of Winterfeldts tools, have never seen them except in
the GMC Motorhome news, AND AM NOT COPYING THEM!
I see no problem with the set I am having manufactured by a friend. I am
not going into business. Does that mean that GM should stop making cars
since Ford was first?

Anyone else feel the same way as Duane and JR? If so I won't have them made.

> them for sale at any price.>>
>
>
>Well said Duane. I agree........JR
>
>
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach

 

[zachary zehnacker]

I believe that all the wheel bearing pullers on the GMC market are probably
"copies" of the one in the GMC service manual. Some may be more elaborate
than others, but I think all got the idea from the original GM special tool
(J26559-1) and went from there. This tool is shown in the 1976 supplement
and the 1977-78 supplement (Thanks T. Winslow . The only real changes I
see in the "new" tools are because they are machined rather than
mass-production cast like the GM tool. If Tom says his tool is based off
of the original GM design, will that make everyone ok with it?

On another note, looking at Patrick's page on the bearing service, it seems
that most of the complicated nature with the Thomas design is because he
supplies tools for every part of the job (ie pulling hub from knuckle,
pulling off bearings, putting on bearings, etc). If you just look at his
bearing puller tool, it is quite simple and straightforward (ie no color
coding needed). The color coding just seems to easily separate the tools
for each different job. With the use of a press and a slide hammer, most
of us don't need the bearing installer or the hub/knuckle remover and
installer. I wonder if Thomas would sell just the bearing puller without
any of the other tools/videos. If he would do that, it might make his tool
much closer in price to what Tom is suggesting. A group purchase might
make him more inclined to do so.

Just some thoughts,
Zak

>I do not have a set of Winterfeldts tools, have never seen them except in
>the GMC Motorhome news, AND AM NOT COPYING THEM!
>I see no problem with the set I am having manufactured by a friend. I am
>not going into business. Does that mean that GM should stop making cars
>since Ford was first?
>
>
>Anyone else feel the same way as Duane and JR? If so I won't have them made.

 

[none]

Thomas........I don't believe that Ken Thoma makes those tools himself.
They're made by someone else. I do agree though. No matter where they come
from, don't copy them.
Jim Davis, 77 Coca Cola
Bandon, Oregon

- -----Original Message-----
From: duane m simmons [SMTP:simmee]
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 1999 11:40 AM
To: gmcmotorhome
Subject: Re: GMC: GMC Motorhome Digest V2 #219

Thomas G Warner
I just don't endorse any one to copy a man's set of tools & advertise
them for sale at any price. It's one thing to copy a set for yourself
(one shot) and another to copy a set & sell them, even at a loss. Have
you considered contacting him for a quanity price or getting his
permission for fabricating a copy of his tools ??? Also a less expensive
method of obtaining a set of tools is to share with two other GMCer since
they are not needed very often, every 25 to 30k miles.
My 2 cents worth.
By the way Ken Thoma doesn't need our business for income. He is doing
the community a great service with his expertise in rebuilding Front
Wheel Bearing parts. More of a retirement hobby for him.

Duane Simmons

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[thomas g. warner]

Guys you have to understand that the Thoma and Winterfeldt tools are
handmade one at a time. That is what makes them expensive. I talked to
Darryl Winterfeldt and he told me that he is lucky to sell 2 a year.

I am luck enough to have a friend with 20 CNC machines and everything one
could want to make parts. Ij addition I can buy tools at a large discount.
The OTC puller by itself is at the lowest $115 anywhere. I get it for $75
Plus shipping.

I have no intention of going into business and competing against anyone. I
am willing to furnish them to the members of this thread for exactly what
they cost me, $75 plus $5 shipping plus the machining and a little to cover
the cost to ship the whole shebang to each person. If Winterfeldt wants them
thats OK also. If he gives me one of his split rings and the adapters I
will have it copied exactly and than will let him buy as many as he wants
for less than he can make them.

We all have a common problem. We want the tools but don't have the big
money to pay for them. We are doing each other a favor because of our common
bond the GMC Motorhome.

>In a message dated 1/28/99 5:49:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, warner
>writes:
>
>> I see no problem with the set I am having manufactured by a friend. I am
>> not going into business.
>
>Hi Tom!
>
>Why not go into business?
>The main reason that drives a person to make another tool is the cost of the
>tools that are available. I've heard that Thoma tools cost $500.00, don't
>know for sure. What upsets me is the fact they cost so much. If you can make
>something similar for less than $200- go for it -- why is Thoma charging so
>much for his? Profit? Who has been taking the shaft here? Are these other
>tools patented?
>What drove me to make my own side rails? I saved myself $1250.00 and it was
>fun. I don't have a ton of money and I'd have $300 dollars less if I bought a
>Thoma wheel bearing puller. Competition is great and so are CNC
>machines--probably 500 for $75.00 each for these puller parts. Money has a
>funny way of talking. Both Thoma and Winterfeld tools are probably wonderful
>tools my problem is the cost of them.
>
>Scott Adohen
>
>
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach

 

[john wright]

Gentlemen,
Let me stir the pot here. Winterfeldt and Thoma's tool are their
versions of the original service tools produced or designed by GMC.
Their designs maybe improvements of the original and more multipurpose,
but they are not patented or copywrited, just improved and probably
better constructed and more thought out. Anyone who can build it at a
lower cost should offer it for sale and competition breeds lower cost.
Tom is offering the tool assemblies at basically cost in limited
production as a service and probably not have them made again. If he
was really trying to increase his income he would charge twice what he
is asking and still be lower in price than the other designs. Anyway,
have rambled on for 25 cents now!

J.R. Wright

>
> Tom,
> I just had to add my pitiful 2 cents worth to the discussion on tool
> design plagerism.
>
> I have looked at the Winterfeldt tools as shown in the GMC Motorhome
> News and don't see what would be so unique in their design that they
> could be patented. I believe that any competent machinest given the
> same probelm, that is to design a system of tools to remove and replace
> a set of bearings from the GMC front hubs, would quickly come up with a
> set that looked and functioned almost the same as the Winterfelt model.
> The same thing would happen if the machinest was asked to design a tool
> to remove a threaded fastener with a slot in its head. The tool would
> probably come out looking like a screw driver.
>
> Well that's enough of my opinion. And as always, I respect and look
> forward to everyone's say on any GMC subject.
> Phil Stewart
> '76 Transmode

 

[philip l. stewart]

Tom,
I just had to add my pitiful 2 cents worth to the discussion on tool
design plagerism.

I have looked at the Winterfeldt tools as shown in the GMC Motorhome
News and don't see what would be so unique in their design that they
could be patented. I believe that any competent machinest given the
same probelm, that is to design a system of tools to remove and replace
a set of bearings from the GMC front hubs, would quickly come up with a
set that looked and functioned almost the same as the Winterfelt model.
The same thing would happen if the machinest was asked to design a tool
to remove a threaded fastener with a slot in its head. The tool would
probably come out looking like a screw driver.

Well that's enough of my opinion. And as always, I respect and look
forward to everyone's say on any GMC subject.
Phil Stewart
'76 Transmode