fan clutch mystery/ theory

Pitch is the distance forward one fan blade travels in one revolution
Example: 10/8. 10 inch propeller travels 8" through the air per revolution
at 100% efficiency (no slippage ) No propeller is 100% efficient except
when traveling through a very dense medium. Now, when you complicate the
equation further with factors like pitch that varies throughout the length
of the blade, or fan material that flexes under various loads, or a
condition know as cavitation, or spills air off the end of the blade, or
creates vortexes, it gets funner trying to describe efficiency. It gets
further complicated by fan shroud placement as well as ducting both ahead
of the fan or behind it. Engineers earn their chops on fan designs, for
sure. Other factors enter into it also like safety, noise of operation,
fitment into space available, etc. I had a friend that owned a 289
supercharged Golden Hawk Studebaker that pitched one of it's fan blades off
while running at speed. It went right through the hood on it's way to who
knows where. He lost it at night and never found it. Engine shook like a
hound dog passing peach pits until he replaced the fan.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403

> hey Ken,
> Not sure how to measure the “pitch” of the fan,
> and i thought figuring out the “working area” might be easier,
> but my fan has (7) blades that are 4” wide and 7” high,
> so my guess is that this equals 28” of "working area", each??
> multiplied by 7 blades = 196” total working area…
>
> Must be some other way to measure, because regardless of whether they’re
> referring to individual blades or sum of all the blades,
> both specs are out of the ranges that they mention… hmmmm…..
>
> Its looks like a sizable fan to me (i think my ’78 eleganza has a slightly
> smaller one… not sure)
>
>
> > I found this additional information on the the Internet. While the
> numbers are slightly different they do follow the same trend. This does
> include
> > pitch information and square inch information. I do not know what
> "Land and groove design" is.
> >
> > Standard Duty Thermal
> > Turns the fan 50-60% of shaft speed when engaged. Used with fans with
> lighter pitch. (1-1/2" of pitch) Flat plate impeller design with 30 Sq. In.
> of
> > working surface.
> >
> > Heavy-Duty Thermal
> > Turns the fan 65-75% of the shaft speed when engaged for increased
> cooling. Used with deeper pitch fans. (2" of pitch). Land and groove design
> with 47
> > Sq. In. of working area allows higher operating RPM's.
> >
> > Severe Duty Thermal
> > Turns the fan 80-90% of the shaft speed when engaged. Used with deeper
> pitch fans. (2-1/2" of pitch). Land and groove design with 65 Sq. In. of
> > working area.
>
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I have seen his presentation before and most of it is very good.

Unfortunately, in my opinion, his conclusions on clutches were flawed as he biased his statements or presentation towards using the Delco 15-4644
"SEVERE DUTY" clutch which he had available at the time for testing. Since the vendor that supplied the clutches for testing did not sell the 15-4208
Delco recommended OEM equivalent clutch, it was never tested and reported on. Delco Engineering strongly recommended to me against using the 15-4644
clutch in our GMC application. They also stated that a minimum of two 1/2" belts must be used with this clutch. Ours are 7/16" and sometimes people
use 3/8".

All of that said, many GMCers use and like the 15-4644 "Severe Duty" clutch which is designed for a larger pitch and larger diameter fan. It is also
much noisier than the OEM spec clutch and some people like that too.

Thanks Rob.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
Hey all, just some follow-up now that i’m back from Tijuana.
I opted to replace to the Duralast (Autozone) fanclutch with the same part
under warranty: 22045 (new # for 2747 heavy duty)

I also took some advice and put in a new thermostat, 180 degree,
since replacing the temp sensor with the recommended TW-6469
still didn’t fix my slow-to-warm-up / low temp read-out problem.
(after 15 minutes of driving, the gauge was still down at the bottom)
(now its at 1/4, which is where its supposed to be for a 180 degree unit)

So between the 2 of these swaps, things seem to be working OK now!
Instead of the fan clutch roaring 65% of the time, it seems like its on only 20% of the time now.
I still sometimes get the clutch engaging after cresting a hill (and easing off on the accelerator)
but not as badly as i did before.
and after everybody’s explanations here, i also understand the system a bit better now.

So who knows if it was the fan clutch or the thermostat, or a combo of both,
but its smooth sailing at the moment.
Cheers!
Greg / Los Angeles
21’ ’76 Birchhaven
26’ ’78 Eleganza II
 
That combination of 180 thermostat and the more sensitive temp sender reads 3/8 scale on mine. I have never seen it read 1/2. I never hear my fan
because I use a heavy duty clutch with a higher (OEM spec) turn on temperature rather than a severe duty lower temperature clutch.

On the slow to warm up problem, I'm wondering what brand of thermostat you used. I understand there is one version of Robert Shaw thermostat for
racing that intentionally never closes completely. I have never seen one so I can not tell you any more about it.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
I can not give an explanation, only a story....

My GMC seemed to never get up to temp, I have aftermarket gauges.
I used Modello washers, Stant thermostats and now have a Robert Shaw thermostat.
I have also replaced the aftermarket gauge with an Autometer gauge.

When switching from a 180 Robert Shaw to a 195 Robert Shaw, I drained the entire system rather than just enough to not make a mess.
Both of the Robert Shaw thermostats have been drilled to allow some coolant flow.

I made sure my coolant to distilled water was exactly 50%/50%.
Now, I feel she runs hot, the temp is always around 210.

The fan clutch works, I can hear it come on, it does not run all the time.

My current thought is the temp sender is bad, so I have a new one to put in.

Whether this helps or not, I am not sure.

But I think your running temp could be low if there is more antifreeze in the mixture than water.

--
1973 GMC 26' Glacier - Unknown Mileage - Has a new switch pitch transmission with Powerdrive
 
Sounds like you got a working combo now. If it comes on after cresting a hill, that's a good thing and a new baseline. If that changes it may be
time for another warranty claim.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
 
Your last sentence doesn't make sense to me as water is a better conductor of heat than antifreeze. So if you are above a 50% concentration of antifreeze you could run a little hotter, not lower. Some people in very cold climates put in more than 50% in order to get a lower freezing point although the -34 deg F of 50% would've fine in most places. Never go over 70% as the freezing point goes up at that point and the cooling ability continues to go down.

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO

>
> I can not give an explanation, only a story....
>
> My GMC seemed to never get up to temp, I have aftermarket gauges.
> I used Modello washers, Stant thermostats and now have a Robert Shaw thermostat.
> I have also replaced the aftermarket gauge with an Autometer gauge.
>
> When switching from a 180 Robert Shaw to a 195 Robert Shaw, I drained the entire system rather than just enough to not make a mess.
> Both of the Robert Shaw thermostats have been drilled to allow some coolant flow.
>
> I made sure my coolant to distilled water was exactly 50%/50%.
> Now, I feel she runs hot, the temp is always around 210.
>
> The fan clutch works, I can hear it come on, it does not run all the time.
>
> My current thought is the temp sender is bad, so I have a new one to put in.
>
> Whether this helps or not, I am not sure.
>
> But I think your running temp could be low if there is more antifreeze in the mixture than water.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> 1973 GMC 26' Glacier - Unknown Mileage - Has a new switch pitch transmission with Powerdrive
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
I believe you, I did not check if it was more water or more antifreeze before, I just assumed.

> Your last sentence doesn't make sense to me as water is a better conductor of heat than antifreeze. So if you are above a 50% concentration of
> antifreeze you could run a little hotter, not lower. Some people in very cold climates put in more than 50% in order to get a lower freezing point
> although the -34 deg F of 50% would've fine in most places. Never go over 70% as the freezing point goes up at that point and the cooling ability
> continues to go down.
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Frederick, CO
>

> >
> > I can not give an explanation, only a story....
> >
> > My GMC seemed to never get up to temp, I have aftermarket gauges.
> > I used Modello washers, Stant thermostats and now have a Robert Shaw thermostat.
> > I have also replaced the aftermarket gauge with an Autometer gauge.
> >
> > When switching from a 180 Robert Shaw to a 195 Robert Shaw, I drained the entire system rather than just enough to not make a mess.
> > Both of the Robert Shaw thermostats have been drilled to allow some coolant flow.
> >
> > I made sure my coolant to distilled water was exactly 50%/50%.
> > Now, I feel she runs hot, the temp is always around 210.
> >
> > The fan clutch works, I can hear it come on, it does not run all the time.
> >
> > My current thought is the temp sender is bad, so I have a new one to put in.
> >
> > Whether this helps or not, I am not sure.
> >
> > But I think your running temp could be low if there is more antifreeze in the mixture than water.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > 1973 GMC 26' Glacier - Unknown Mileage - Has a new switch pitch transmission with Powerdrive
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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--
1973 GMC 26' Glacier - Unknown Mileage - Has a new switch pitch transmission with Powerdrive
 
There may be some hard numbers on airflow coming. Supposedly, one of the labs is going to test the OEM fan, the ten blade plastic one, and the one
Applied supplies with the new kit. Hopefully air quantity (CFM) per RPM at a set pressure drop. We'll see.

--johnny

--
76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
 
Good luck quantifying that deal. I have never seen two GMC coaches exactly
configured the same under and in front of the hood. Between possum scoops,
oil coolers, bumpers, fascia pieces, shark gills, inner fenders in, or out,
or trimmed, headers or iron manifolds, raised engine covers, insulation and
sound deadening stuff, horse collar fan shrouds, different radiators,
baffles of all kinds and shapes.
The list goes on, the list goes on. La te da te da, to steal from Sonny
an Cher. Guess the data, if gathered and documented well, should prove
something. It is not an errand I would look forward to taking on, for sure.
I am happy when I get a coach that I worked on to keep a stable temp in the
conditions that it is driven in, most of the time, and doesn't cycle the
fan clutch too frequently. Good luck with that project. Should prove very
interesting.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403

On May 3, 2017 7:06 AM, "Johnny Bridges via Gmclist" <

> There may be some hard numbers on airflow coming. Supposedly, one of the
> labs is going to test the OEM fan, the ten blade plastic one, and the one
> Applied supplies with the new kit. Hopefully air quantity (CFM) per RPM
> at a set pressure drop. We'll see.
>
> --johnny
>
> --
> 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> Braselton, Ga.
> "I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me
> in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Jim, what it would tell you is which fan moves the most air. Now, in any given setup the absolute amount might change - albeit not greatly - but the
comparison between fans for that setup will still be valid.

--johnny
--
76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased