Experience? with Race repair/fix with LOCTITE

The centerpunch method might work for farm equipment, but I know I wouldn’t use it as a trustworthy repair on a vehicle hub. There is no certain way to ensure you have raised the metal equally around the bore, plus each punch mark creates a pressure point. This could result in a bearing race that may be forced off center and/or oval, which is a bigger risk than the loose race would be.

If you really want to ensure metal to metal contact and a centered race, using shim stock or feeler gauge and loctite would be the best way to bandaid the bearing installation.

Les Burt
Montreal
'75 Eleganza 26'

>
> Marc,
>
> You asked about only the Loctite, didn't specify which Loctite you were asking about, and omitted the other part of the process. I had asked B to
> send you the link with the information about using Loctite on a loose bearing cup.
>
> https://www.grainews.ca/2014/12/10/how-to-deal-with-a-loose-bearing-race/
> That page details the process, using a center punch to raise metal around the bearing cup seat, and the specific Loctite product.
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Loctite-442-66010-Retaining-Compound-Silver/dp/B000O03DK0
> That Loctite is good to 300 degrees F and by itself is good for a gap up to .020", full cure in 24 hours.
>
> Using a center punch to evenly space points of raised metal around the bearing cup seat is an easy and measured way to maintain the concentricity, a
> concern as Rob M mentioned, and is a homebrew way of accomplishing the same thing as the knurling that Jim Hupy mentioned, raising metal to tighten
> the fit.
>
> The combination of Loctite and raised metal accomplishes what can't be done by either alone. How long will it last? Who knows, but short of
> replacing the hub, and barring you smoking your hubs (which as people point out, by then you've boiled your brake fluid and the grease has left your
> bearings) it should last. Peace of mind? Throw money at it. :roll:
>
> Just trying to put everybody on the same page so there's a more complete picture, as I'm sure this question crops up frequently.
>
> Richard
>
>
>
> --
> '77 Birchaven TZE...777
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Les,

In my opinion the operative word in your email is "bandaid." :-)

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808


-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Les Burt
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2018 8:27 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Experience? with Race repair/fix with LOCTITE

The centerpunch method might work for farm equipment, but I know I wouldn’t use it as a trustworthy repair on a vehicle hub. There is no certain way to ensure you have raised the metal equally around the bore, plus each punch mark creates a pressure point. This could result in a bearing race that may be forced off center and/or oval, which is a bigger risk than the loose race would be.

If you really want to ensure metal to metal contact and a centered race, using shim stock or feeler gauge and loctite would be the best way to bandaid the bearing installation.

Les Burt
Montreal
'75 Eleganza 26'

>
> Marc,
>
> You asked about only the Loctite, didn't specify which Loctite you were asking about, and omitted the other part of the process. I had asked B to
> send you the link with the information about using Loctite on a loose bearing cup.
>
> https://www.grainews.ca/2014/12/10/how-to-deal-with-a-loose-bearing-race/
> That page details the process, using a center punch to raise metal around the bearing cup seat, and the specific Loctite product.
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Loctite-442-66010-Retaining-Compound-Silver/dp/B000O03DK0
> That Loctite is good to 300 degrees F and by itself is good for a gap up to .020", full cure in 24 hours.
>
> Using a center punch to evenly space points of raised metal around the bearing cup seat is an easy and measured way to maintain the concentricity, a
> concern as Rob M mentioned, and is a homebrew way of accomplishing the same thing as the knurling that Jim Hupy mentioned, raising metal to tighten
> the fit.
>
> The combination of Loctite and raised metal accomplishes what can't be done by either alone. How long will it last? Who knows, but short of
> replacing the hub, and barring you smoking your hubs (which as people point out, by then you've boiled your brake fluid and the grease has left your
> bearings) it should last. Peace of mind? Throw money at it. :roll:
>
> Just trying to put everybody on the same page so there's a more complete picture, as I'm sure this question crops up frequently.
>
> Richard
>
>
>
> --
> '77 Birchaven TZE...777
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Les Burt[1

> vehicle hub. There is no certain way to ensure you have raised the metal equally around the bore, plus each punch mark creates a pressure point.
> This could result in a bearing race that may be forced off center and/or oval, which is a bigger risk than the loose race would be.
>
> If you really want to ensure metal to metal contact and a centered race, using shim stock or feeler gauge and loctite would be the best way to
> bandaid the bearing installation.
>
> Les Burt

Les,
You wrote earlier, "Depending on how loose the race is in the hub, I would not hesitate to use loctite to prevent the race from moving. The loctite is
just preventing rotation by filling the space around the race and bonding it to the hub.
{snip}
Ultimately, the best solution is to find some used hubs that are in better condition and conveniently accessible, but until that happens, I'd keep
trucking with loctite on my bearings."

I'm not sure I understand why raising some metal evenly around the hub is worse than using Loctite alone. The bit of raised metal would just help
insure that the cup was centered while the Loctite set, no? That's one of the reasons I think the automatic center punch would be better than a
hammer and punch as mentioned in that article. A uniform impact would raise a uniform amount of material.

I have not seen Marc's hub/cup situation, and of course it could be ridiculously loose where all bets are off and it's time to replace it. Assuming
it's not shot, and in the meantime, I'd use the punch/Loctite and do one of those "watchful waiting" things. I'd start an accelerated maintenance
program and check the race maybe every 1500 miles until it either loosened again or I felt comfortable to start checking it less often. That's just
what I'd do in Marc's situation, and as I always say, "Your coach, your cash, your call."

Richard
--
'77 Birchaven TZE...777
Yes, I am lucky!
 
Richard,
The main reason I do not like the centerpunch method is that it creates pressure points that can distort the outer race, making it oval. This may be less of an issue when using a large number of centerpunch marks, but, that raises another concern. — If the bore is only a few thousands oversize, the centerpunch marks will likely render the bore too tight. Now you need to either force the race into place, or polish the bore to get it to fit. Either way, there is no guarantee that the bearing will remain on center, or remain round. The amount of deviation would likely be less than 0.005” which might be enough to put the bearing longevity at risk.

You mentioned the use of an automatic centerpunch. Yes that will provide uniform punch marks, but you have no control over how much metal is displaced. The one I have would provide more than a few thousands of raised metal, likely requiring some polishing to allow bearing installation.

If you leave the bore as is, and uniformly apply loctite to the entire bore surface, the loctite film will help center the loose race in the bore until it has cured. The race will remain round as well.

With any homebrew method of repair, bearing alignment will be a gamble at best. There is no certain way to guarantee you have it right without putting it in a lathe. If a lathe is available, why not just sleeve the bore and be done with it?

Les Burt
Montreal
'75 Eleganza 26'
 
Hey Les. Thanks for the clarification of the reasoning. In researching this topic I haven't found anyone who said that the Loctite didn't work,
which I find curious. There's always someone who had a problem with any given repair technique and bad news has legs. Here's a 6 year old thread
from another forum that covered everything we've talked about. The last post was particularly interesting to me.

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/loose-bearing-race-in-hub-now-what.723085/

One of my concerns is that people with a marginal hub will replace it and throw the marginal hub away, and the community loses another one. As the
hubs are unobtanium this worries me. Maybe with the advances in manufacturing we'll just say, "Siri, manufacture a 1977 GMC Motorhome rear hub." and
it'll be ready in the morning! One can only hope.

Richard
--
'77 Birchaven TZE...777
Yes, I am lucky!
 
> Hey Les. Thanks for the clarification of the reasoning. In researching this topic I haven't found anyone who said that the Loctite didn't work,
> which I find curious. There's always someone who had a problem with any given repair technique and bad news has legs. Here's a 6 year old thread
> from another forum that covered everything we've talked about. The last post was particularly interesting to me.
> https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/loose-bearing-race-in-hub-now-what.723085/
> One of my concerns is that people with a marginal hub will replace it and throw the marginal hub away, and the community loses another one. As
> the hubs are unobtanium this worries me. Maybe with the advances in manufacturing we'll just say, "Siri, manufacture a 1977 GMC Motorhome rear
> hub." and it'll be ready in the morning! One can only hope.
>
> Richard

Richard,

Rear hubs are not all that rare (yet) as most parts coaches yield three usable parts.

I worry about the punching, knurling or other displacement of the base hub material as there is no way to make this action truly concentric. Would I
use it to get home?
In a heartbeat.
If I were to have to make this repair as permanent, I would find Dave Lenzi's source for spray welding and grinding.

But, as said, there are more than a few parts coaches loose.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
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