Experience? with Race repair/fix with LOCTITE

[dutch marc]

Hi there,

Any1 has experience with using LOCTITE to fix a spinning race in a rear wheel hub?

Thanks Marc
--
1973 26' Canyon Land (Mello Yello) (TZE063v101302)
Full Time GMC Nomad ('98 NL 2 USA)

 

[Jim Hupy]

PROBABLY a bad idea. Bearings and spindles normally run hot enough to
soften loctite. Look to see if there are bearing races slightly oversize
that will fit tighter. Otherwise, look for good used hubs or spindles still
within specs, or, build up your existing ones with weld and re-machine. A
lot rides on those rear hubs.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403

> Hi there,
>
> Any1 has experience with using LOCTITE to fix a spinning race in a rear
> wheel hub?
>
> Thanks Marc
> --
> 1973 26' Canyon Land (Mello Yello) (TZE063v101302)
> Full Time GMC Nomad ('98 NL 2 USA)
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

 

[charles boyd]

Sir, I have used LOCTITE race retainer in big trucks with good results. I believe it was green. It has been a while ago. I used a new bearing and
race and was still in the truck running daily when I sold it 4 years later.

> Hi there,
>
> Any1 has experience with using LOCTITE to fix a spinning race in a rear wheel hub?
>
> Thanks Marc

--
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee

 

[kingsley coach]

Years ago I had a spinning race on a '68 Camero. A machinist pressed the
race, surrounded by shim stock, into the hub . It held for a couple of
years until a Willow tree ended its life.
Would I do the same thing on a GMC...No!

Just my thoughts.

Mike in NS

> PROBABLY a bad idea. Bearings and spindles normally run hot enough to
> soften loctite. Look to see if there are bearing races slightly oversize
> that will fit tighter. Otherwise, look for good used hubs or spindles still
> within specs, or, build up your existing ones with weld and re-machine. A
> lot rides on those rear hubs.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Or
> 78 GMC ROYALE 403
>

>
> > Hi there,
> >
> > Any1 has experience with using LOCTITE to fix a spinning race in a rear
> > wheel hub?
> >
> > Thanks Marc
> > --
> > 1973 26' Canyon Land (Mello Yello) (TZE063v101302)
> > Full Time GMC Nomad ('98 NL 2 USA)
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS

Life is too short to hold a grudge; slash some tires and call it even !

 

[Ken B]

Locktite 272 (Red) has a release temperature of 500 degrees F. (250C) That is above the point where the wheel bearing grease will melt and flow
away. So if it ever gets that hot you have other problems. I have done what you suggest but never in a location as critical as you are suggesting to
do.

That said, think of the amount of damage that would occur if it ever lets loose going down the road.

I might be tempted to try it in an emergency depending on the amount of wear there.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

 

[johnny]

I've watched a back wheel complete with outer bearing pass me on I 75 when the race loosened, and eventually failed the spindle. I believe Hupy has
the move for you.

--johnny
--
76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased

 

[robert mueller]

Marc,

In my opinion it depends on how loose the bearing is in the hub. However, I don't see how you'll be able to get the race centered in
the hub which will result in the inner and outer races not being concentric and that's not a good thing!

If I were you I'd bite the bullet and replace the hub, period, end of story.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808


-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Dutch Marc
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2018 11:24 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: [GMCnet] Experience? with Race repair/fix with LOCTITE

Hi there,

Any1 has experience with using LOCTITE to fix a spinning race in a rear wheel hub?

Thanks Marc

 

[les burt]

I may be totally out to lunch here, but Marc’s coach has been running with loose outer races for an unknown period of time with no ill effects. Yes the hubs are worn, but nothing has failed. The hubs were probably machined to a loose tolerance 40 years ago and it only has become a problem now.

That said, I would not allow my own coach to continue running with a loose outer race, as it will only continue to get worse.

Depending on how loose the race is in the hub, I would not hesitate to use loctite to prevent the race from moving. The loctite is just preventing rotation by filling the space around the race and bonding it to the hub.

Loctite has several grades of bearing retention products that have high strength and high temp ratings. They also have a primer that is recommended in applications where faster curing and better bonding is desired.

I work in an aircraft engine overhaul facility where we regularly use loctite products to secure sleeves, bushings, and bearings. The use of loctite is factory and FAA approved for these specific applications.

The loctite we use at work for bearing retention is loctite 620 combined with loctite 7471 primer. I wouldn’t hesitate to use it for a TZE rear outer race

Ultimately, the best solution is to find some used hubs that are in better condition and conveniently accessible, but until that happens, I’d keep trucking with loctite on my bearings.

Les Burt
Montreal
'75 Eleganza 26'

 

[dave stragand1]

One a disc brake conversion kit for one of our older cars, the manufacturer specified the use of a specific type of Loctite on a spindle-to-bearing-adapter sleeve. It was Loctite sleeve and bearing retainer if I recall correctly, but I don't remember the number.

It has worked fine in that application, and I also used some of the remainder on the outer race of a rear wheel bearing on a DMC to stop a slip-an-squeak, and it has held for over 20 years.

There's no replacement for doing something the right way of course, but sometimes something as simple as Loctite might buy you a whole bunch of time.

 

[robert mueller]

G'day,

I reckon it would be a good idea to check with the "horses mouth" so I sent an email to Locktite USA and got the response below.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808

*******************************************************************************************************************************
From: AG - Mike Smigel [mailto:mike.smigel]
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2018 1:52 PM
To: robmueller
Subject: Henkel Inquiry - Case #: 00264172 [ ref:_00D301RJ1._5003412lmXP:ref ]

Rob, I would look at Loctite 640 which you have the option of purchasing through an automotive aftermarket distributor as ordering
item # 37424 (6 ml tube). The latter is sold through stores like O'Reilly's, PepBoys, NAPA or Auto Zone. This is used to augment
press fits, but also used for loose, slip fits up to 0.007" on the diameter.

Regards,
Mike Smigel
___________________________
Subject: Bearing Race Locktite

Description: Gentlemen, I have a 12,000 lb GMC Motorhome that has a press fit outer rear wheel bearing race that is spinning in the
hub. Can I use one of your products to lock the race to the hub?

Thanks,
Rob

Date of inquiry: 4/26/2018

Company: Overkill Engineering
Contact Name: Rob
Contact Email: robmueller
Contact Address: 2284 Gemini Street,
City: Houston
State: Texas
Zip: 77058
Country: USA
Contact Phone: (832) 331-6467
Case #: 00264172
*******************************************************************************************************************************

 

[Bruce Hart]

NAPA # NCB 37424

https://www.napaonline.com/en/search?text=37424&referer=search_form-allprod

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 2:38 PM, Rob Mueller
wrote:

> G'day,
>
> I reckon it would be a good idea to check with the "horses mouth" so I
> sent an email to Locktite USA and got the response below.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> The Pedantic Mechanic
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
>
> ************************************************************
> *******************************************************************
> From: AG - Mike Smigel [mailto:mike.smigel]
> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2018 1:52 PM
> To: robmueller
> Subject: Henkel Inquiry - Case #: 00264172 [ ref:_00D301RJ1._5003412lmXP:ref
> ]
>
> Rob, I would look at Loctite 640 which you have the option of purchasing
> through an automotive aftermarket distributor as ordering
> item # 37424 (6 ml tube). The latter is sold through stores like
> O'Reilly's, PepBoys, NAPA or Auto Zone. This is used to augment
> press fits, but also used for loose, slip fits up to 0.007" on the
> diameter.
>
> Regards,
> Mike Smigel
> ___________________________
> Subject: Bearing Race Locktite
>
> Description: Gentlemen, I have a 12,000 lb GMC Motorhome that has a press
> fit outer rear wheel bearing race that is spinning in the
> hub. Can I use one of your products to lock the race to the hub?
>
> Thanks,
> Rob
>
> Date of inquiry: 4/26/2018
>
> Company: Overkill Engineering
> Contact Name: Rob
> Contact Email: robmueller
> Contact Address: 2284 Gemini Street,
> City: Houston
> State: Texas
> Zip: 77058
> Country: USA
> Contact Phone: (832) 331-6467
> Case #: 00264172
> ************************************************************
> *******************************************************************
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class

 

[wayne rogewski]

Just a question for further down the line. Suppose the correct product is used and serves its purpose well to lock the new race in the hub. Further
suppose the bearing eventually wears out. Is that race now that much more difficult to remove because it has been loctite'ed in? Or just put the hub
in the press and go.

Just wondering out loud.

--
77 Royale, Rear Dry Bath. 403, 3.55 Final Drive, Lenzi goodies, Patterson carb and dizzy.
Mid Michigan

 

[charles boyd]

Sir, I'm thinking that heating is recommended to break the bond before trying to remove. Removal instructions are usually on the package I threw away
5 years ago.

> Just a question for further down the line. Suppose the correct product is used and serves its purpose well to lock the new race in the hub.
> Further suppose the bearing eventually wears out and needs to be replaced along with a new race. Is that race now that much more difficult to
> remove because it has been loctite'ed in? Or just put the hub in the press and go.
>
> Just wondering out loud.

--
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee

 

[les burt]

For some of the loctite secured bearings, we just press them out, for others, we preheat the bearing housing in an oven set at 300-400°F then press them out. The remaining cured loctite will then need to be removed from the bearing recess. I’ve found a sharp knife works best as it won’t remove any parent metal. Using Sandpaper will risk increasing the dia of the hole.

Les Burt
Montreal
'75 Eleganza 26'

>
> Sir, I'm thinking that heating is recommended to break the bond before trying to remove. Removal instructions are usually on the package I threw away
> 5 years ago.
>
>
>

>> Just a question for further down the line. Suppose the correct product is used and serves its purpose well to lock the new race in the hub.
>> Further suppose the bearing eventually wears out and needs to be replaced along with a new race. Is that race now that much more difficult to
>> remove because it has been loctite'ed in? Or just put the hub in the press and go.
>>
>> Just wondering out loud.
>
>
> --
> C. Boyd
> 76 Crestmont
> East Tennessee
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

 

[dutch marc]

Hi Guys, thanks for all the info. Sometimes got more confused that when I started.

YES, This is only a temp. solution so I can try to find out if the Axle needs to be replaced or not. Not sure what has been causing the race to come
loose. SInce I have another loose race on my other side of the GMC, This wheel does not get 50% hotter that the "Axel might be issue" does.

I am going to replace 2 Hubs, 2 new Bearing Kits + Seals + Maybe 1x Axle if needed

Thanks Again ...

Dutch Marc
--
1973 26' Canyon Land (Mello Yello) (TZE063v101302)
Full Time GMC Nomad ('98 NL 2 USA)

 

[dutch marc]

Thanks Burt for your input
--
1973 26' Canyon Land (Mello Yello) (TZE063v101302)
Full Time GMC Nomad ('98 NL 2 USA)

 

[dutch marc]

Thanks Burt for your input

Les Burt[1

> period of time with no ill effects. Yes the hubs are worn, but nothing has failed. The hubs were probably machined to a loose tolerance 40 years ago
> and it only has become a problem now.
>
> That said, I would not allow my own coach to continue running with a loose outer race, as it will only continue to get worse.
>
> Depending on how loose the race is in the hub, I would not hesitate to use loctite to prevent the race from moving. The loctite is just preventing
> rotation by filling the space around the race and bonding it to the hub.
>
> Loctite has several grades of bearing retention products that have high strength and high temp ratings. They also have a primer that is
> recommended in applications where faster curing and better bonding is desired.
>
> I work in an aircraft engine overhaul facility where we regularly use loctite products to secure sleeves, bushings, and bearings. The use of
> loctite is factory and FAA approved for these specific applications.
>
> The loctite we use at work for bearing retention is loctite 620 combined with loctite 7471 primer. I wouldn't hesitate to use it for a TZE rear
> outer race
>
> Ultimately, the best solution is to find some used hubs that are in better condition and conveniently accessible, but until that happens, I'd keep
> trucking with loctite on my bearings.
>
>
> Les Burt
> Montreal
> '75 Eleganza 26'
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

--
1973 26' Canyon Land (Mello Yello) (TZE063v101302)
Full Time GMC Nomad ('98 NL 2 USA)

 

[dutch marc]

Thanks Rob, Good info. Next time will try myself.. Liked the experience feedback from form. PriceLess

> G'day,
>
> I reckon it would be a good idea to check with the "horses mouth" so I sent an email to Locktite USA and got the response below.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> The Pedantic Mechanic
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
>
> *******************************************************************************************************************************
> From: AG - Mike Smigel [mailto:mike.smigel]
> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2018 1:52 PM
> To: robmueller
> Subject: Henkel Inquiry - Case #: 00264172 [ ref:_00D301RJ1._5003412lmXP:ref ]
>
> Rob, I would look at Loctite 640 which you have the option of purchasing through an automotive aftermarket distributor as ordering
> item # 37424 (6 ml tube). The latter is sold through stores like O'Reilly's, PepBoys, NAPA or Auto Zone. This is used to augment
> press fits, but also used for loose, slip fits up to 0.007" on the diameter.
>
> Regards,
> Mike Smigel
> ___________________________
> Subject: Bearing Race Locktite
>
> Description: Gentlemen, I have a 12,000 lb GMC Motorhome that has a press fit outer rear wheel bearing race that is spinning in the
> hub. Can I use one of your products to lock the race to the hub?
>
> Thanks,
> Rob
>
> Date of inquiry: 4/26/2018
>
> Company: Overkill Engineering
> Contact Name: Rob
> Contact Email: robmueller
> Contact Address: 2284 Gemini Street,
> City: Houston
> State: Texas
> Zip: 77058
> Country: USA
> Contact Phone: (832) 331-6467
> Case #: 00264172
> *******************************************************************************************************************************

--
1973 26' Canyon Land (Mello Yello) (TZE063v101302)
Full Time GMC Nomad ('98 NL 2 USA)

 

[Jim Hupy]

One more "fix" for loose races is knurling. On the hubs, it requires an
internal knurling tool, on the spindles, it would require removing them
from the bogie arms, chucking them in a lathe, then replacing them. The
process could correct loose hubs.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403

> Thanks Rob, Good info. Next time will try myself.. Liked the experience
> feedback from form. PriceLess
>

> > G'day,
> >
> > I reckon it would be a good idea to check with the "horses mouth" so I
> sent an email to Locktite USA and got the response below.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Rob M.
> > The Pedantic Mechanic
> > Sydney, Australia
> > AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> > USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
> > USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
> >
> >
> *******************************************************************************************************************************
> > From: AG - Mike Smigel [mailto:mike.smigel]
> > Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2018 1:52 PM
> > To: robmueller
> > Subject: Henkel Inquiry - Case #: 00264172 [
> ref:_00D301RJ1._5003412lmXP:ref ]
> >
> > Rob, I would look at Loctite 640 which you have the option of purchasing
> through an automotive aftermarket distributor as ordering
> > item # 37424 (6 ml tube). The latter is sold through stores like
> O'Reilly's, PepBoys, NAPA or Auto Zone. This is used to augment
> > press fits, but also used for loose, slip fits up to 0.007" on the
> diameter.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Mike Smigel
> > ___________________________
> > Subject: Bearing Race Locktite
> >
> > Description: Gentlemen, I have a 12,000 lb GMC Motorhome that has a
> press fit outer rear wheel bearing race that is spinning in the
> > hub. Can I use one of your products to lock the race to the hub?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Rob
> >
> > Date of inquiry: 4/26/2018
> >
> > Company: Overkill Engineering
> > Contact Name: Rob
> > Contact Email: robmueller
> > Contact Address: 2284 Gemini Street,
> > City: Houston
> > State: Texas
> > Zip: 77058
> > Country: USA
> > Contact Phone: (832) 331-6467
> > Case #: 00264172
> >
> *******************************************************************************************************************************
>
>
> --
> 1973 26' Canyon Land (Mello Yello) (TZE063v101302)
> Full Time GMC Nomad ('98 NL 2 USA)
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

 

[Richard RV]

Marc,

You asked about only the Loctite, didn't specify which Loctite you were asking about, and omitted the other part of the process. I had asked B to
send you the link with the information about using Loctite on a loose bearing cup.

https://www.grainews.ca/2014/12/10/how-to-deal-with-a-loose-bearing-race/
That page details the process, using a center punch to raise metal around the bearing cup seat, and the specific Loctite product.

https://www.amazon.com/Loctite-442-66010-Retaining-Compound-Silver/dp/B000O03DK0
That Loctite is good to 300 degrees F and by itself is good for a gap up to .020", full cure in 24 hours.

Using a center punch to evenly space points of raised metal around the bearing cup seat is an easy and measured way to maintain the concentricity, a
concern as Rob M mentioned, and is a homebrew way of accomplishing the same thing as the knurling that Jim Hupy mentioned, raising metal to tighten
the fit.

The combination of Loctite and raised metal accomplishes what can't be done by either alone. How long will it last? Who knows, but short of
replacing the hub, and barring you smoking your hubs (which as people point out, by then you've boiled your brake fluid and the grease has left your
bearings) it should last. Peace of mind? Throw money at it. :roll:

Just trying to put everybody on the same page so there's a more complete picture, as I'm sure this question crops up frequently.

Richard

--
'77 Birchaven TZE...777