Ethanol Wars

About 1993 I worked for a company that would include a car for a group of
students taking classes in Sacramento. The students were warned that if
they chose to run Ethebal in the car it would not make it to South
Lake Tahoe and back on one tank, but if they ran gas in the dual fuel car
and did not drive around much once they got there they should be ok.

> I (we) don't have any say in the ethanol wars, I can only add this tid bit.
>
> Back when it all started I was a young man that still kept numbers of MPG
> of
> my cars and truck.
>
> I always thought my mileage numbers were meager at best but I liked to see
> what driving charactoristics made an impact on MPG.
>
> Along came ethanol. First if I remember right, you could try it without
> being
> forced to put it in your tank and I opted out. Feed back started coming
> in and
> for the most part it was not good.
>
> Then we had no choice, non ethanol fuels in most large populated areas
> were
> required to use the ethanol contaminated fuels. I believe it started at
> 5%,
> of which it would later be quietly increased to 10%.
>
> I was still taking number for MPG and I saw a minimum DECREASE in MPG of
> 35%.
>
> OK so you say my numbers were wrong. But this showed up the same in all
> of my vehicles.
>
> This immediately made me thing of how much more gas we had to burn, or how
> much
> more MONEY we would have to spend over a year, to get to the same place
> that
> would have cost us much less and less fuel amounts without the ethanol
> contamination to the fuels.
>
> Ok, lets look at it another way.
> We are already poluting the air with the NON ethanol contaminated fuels
> but
> once the contamination is added, that is 35% MORE AIR POLLUTION PER CAR.
>
> Now maybe people like us might be concerned about polution or the status
> of the
> Earths breathable air quality for future people and our children, but the
> crooked
> politicians don't care other than getting money in their pockets.
> As far as I was concerned, this last election proved beyond the doubt how
> crooked
> and unlawful the politics of our government are.
>
> But to sell off our health and breathable air quality for a few dollars
> just
> does not make sense to me. And of course, we who elect these bums, have
> no
> say in anything government.
>
> Just my thought on the subject.
>
> (stepping off my soap box)
> --
> GatsbysCruise. \
> 74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
> Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS
> FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU STUDIO -
> UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center
>
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--

*John Phillips*
 
Here is my "seat of pants dyno" test. Those who visit the Amana GMCMI probably know the convenience store gas mart just outside the fairgrounds.
Leaving I went to fuel up and saw E0 pure gas so bought about $50 worth. I found I had no more power and a new tendency for detonation rattle at the
secondary tip in point merging onto the highway. I had my timing set to just be at the safe point of that not happening with E10. My theory is the
slowing of the burn by the E10 was able to quell this, but not the pure gas at the given octane. So if I were to run this pure gas all the time I
would have pull a couple degrees of timing losing a bit of resposiveness and fuel mileage. And spend $ more doing it. So since E10 is the norm, I
staying with that setup. Again not scientific due to sample size. but reconfirmed what I had found in the past when I used E0 on trips.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
 
I believe that is correct.
When Ethanhol was added to polute our fuels, all of my cars had to be set a little different to burn it.
Since finding real fuel without the polutant mixed in, that is no longer a problem.
We just burn more fuel, spend more money and not get as far as we used to.
--
GatsbysCruise. \
74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU STUDIO -
UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center
 
When we consider the lobbing power of Cargill and Archer-Daniels-Midland and Monsanto against the lobbying power of the GMC and classic car community,
I don't think we're gonna lose alcohol in our gas any time soon. I am told - and I don't know the source so I don't know how relevant it is - that
the same folks are lobbying States to outlaw or severaly restrict the sale of 'boat gas' (non-ethanol gasoline).

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
 
In my carbureted coach, non-ethanol gas resulted in better fuel mileage by 7 - 10% over a year of monitoring. My current injuected coach doesn't seem
to make as much difference, but I didn't run hard numbers on it. We'll see what the new mill does.

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
 
For Inline Technologies, I can't help your fuel mileage, maybe the vaporizing magic equipment might. By the same arguments though, I can heklp your
braking. I have a pair of Brake Guard Sentry units which I can let go for a reasonable price. $50 3ach, plus about eight dollars for a U.S.P.S.
Small Flat-rate box. $108 puts them in the mail to you.

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
 
> Here is my "seat of pants dyno" test. Those who visit the Amana GMCMI probably know the convenience store gas mart just outside the fairgrounds.
> Leaving I went to fuel up and saw E0 pure gas so bought about $50 worth. I found I had no more power and a new tendency for detonation rattle at the
> secondary tip in point merging onto the highway. I had my timing set to just be at the safe point of that not happening with E10. My theory is the
> slowing of the burn by the E10 was able to quell this, but not the pure gas at the given octane. So if I were to run this pure gas all the time I
> would have pull a couple degrees of timing losing a bit of resposiveness and fuel mileage. And spend $ more doing it. So since E10 is the norm, I
> staying with that setup. Again not scientific due to sample size. but reconfirmed what I had found in the past when I used E0 on trips.

John,

My bet would be that the E0 fuel you got was not a good Ron+Mon/2 of 85. The Research and Motor Octane numbers are both set by test engines that run
at very different conditions. It is possible to affect one more than the other and I would not like to accuse fuel suppliers as fudging the values,
but I have to do so because I know that they do. With a low volume of distribution of E0 fuel, an regular is very likely to be off the mark.

Now, if you had a closed loop engine (as I have had a few) and you paid attention, you might have seen more of a difference. As I suspect, that the
E0 was not as labeled octane-wise, you would not have found any performance gain. One of my turbo cars was so fuel sensitive that I could have
calibrated the boost gauge as an octane meter.

Matt

--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
True not scientific. Perhaps other coaches filled up there for more data points since we had a hundred plus iirc and it was the closest fuel station
And I don't remember the labled octane.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
 
State of Oregon is studying mileage taxes on vehicles to "allow" for the hybrids and pure electrics pay their "fair" share. Look out wallet.

Last bill that I hear on ethanol appears to be forcing E-15 on the unsuspecting public. Every current vehicle that I own have very big lettered
warnings about not using E-15 or higher E content. Warranty is out. However, the professional politicians got their payoff in Iowa.

See you in Tallashaee.

Tom
--
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG