Engine vents

Thigh19

New member
Aug 4, 2019
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I've seen a few of these with engine vents on the side. Is there a standard placement where these go? Or is it just chance? Any help or guidance will
be appreciated. I purchased a set of stainless vents, for a boat, I plan on using.
 
We supply the exact location instruction with our unit.
Go to our sight and see.

On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 1:28 PM Thom High via Gmclist <

> I've seen a few of these with engine vents on the side. Is there a
> standard placement where these go? Or is it just chance? Any help or
> guidance will
> be appreciated. I purchased a set of stainless vents, for a boat, I plan
> on using.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
 
Along the same lines, I picked up a set of 1980-1981 Camaro Z28 'air
extractor' vents I was thinking of using. Has anyone used these on
their coach? They look like these:
https://www.jegs.com/i/OER/691/K8081/10002/-1. The hole is mounted
towards the front of the vehicle, so airflow works to suction out the
air.

-Dave

1978 Transmode near Pittsburgh

On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 1:28 PM Thom High via Gmclist <

> I've seen a few of these with engine vents on the side. Is there a
> standard placement where these go? Or is it just chance? Any help or
> guidance will
> be appreciated. I purchased a set of stainless vents, for a boat, I
plan
> on using.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Here is the link to the Engine Air Vents that Jim K sells. This is the
most common style used on the GMC motorlhome.

https://www.gmcrvparts.com/product-p/g14881.htm
http://www.gmcrvparts.com/v/vspfiles/images/side_vents.pdf

A word of wisdom here, The Applied GMC website has a ton of information in
the instructions area. Go look and see!

https://www.gmcrvparts.com/category-s/158.htm

Regards,

J.R. Wright
GMC Great Laker
GMCGL Tech Editor
GMC Eastern States
GMCMHI
TZE Zone Restorations
78 Buskirk Custom 29.5' Stretch
75 Avion (Under going Frame up Restoration)
On location in Tucson (I don't do winter)

On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 4:13 PM Dave Stragand via Gmclist <

> Along the same lines, I picked up a set of 1980-1981 Camaro Z28 'air
> extractor' vents I was thinking of using. Has anyone used these on
> their coach? They look like these:
> https://www.jegs.com/i/OER/691/K8081/10002/-1. The hole is mounted
> towards the front of the vehicle, so airflow works to suction out the
> air.
>
> -Dave
>
> 1978 Transmode near Pittsburgh
>
> On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 1:28 PM Thom High via Gmclist <

>
> > I've seen a few of these with engine vents on the side. Is there a
> > standard placement where these go? Or is it just chance? Any help or
> > guidance will
> > be appreciated. I purchased a set of stainless vents, for a boat, I
> plan
> > on using.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
> jimk
> http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
> 1-800-752-7502
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
My evaluation is they let SOME convective heat soak out at shutdown. However., the square inches compared to radiator area is inconsequential. The
biggest problem is the step intrusion because of the about 50% of the vent is not functional at all. (Blocked) ,Though hot air comes out, this is
AFTER the radiator it does not lower engine temp.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
 
We know after monitoring the pressure and scanning the vent, that indeed
they do relieve pressure. Some relief is better than none in this case.
I certify safety cabinets and have instruments and can tell people that the
so called dead spot does allow air to move out more than meets the eye.
Yes it is dependent on air pressure, and more is moved when the
pressure moves up.
Our Air filter side is involved with blower units and other related design
of equipment so we have some experience in this area.
I'm not here to argue, or wrong anyone, just stating what I know.

On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 7:40 PM John R. Lebetski via Gmclist <

> My evaluation is they let SOME convective heat soak out at shutdown.
> However., the square inches compared to radiator area is inconsequential.
> The
> biggest problem is the step intrusion because of the about 50% of the vent
> is not functional at all. (Blocked) ,Though hot air comes out, this is
> AFTER the radiator it does not lower engine temp.
> --
> John Lebetski
> Woodstock, IL
> 77 Eleganza II
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
 
  • Like
Reactions: pvfjr
Effectiveness not withstanding, you asked about location. Maybe the following photo will help:

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/mechanical/p34779-dodge-front-wheels.html

The PO installed vents on my coach are as high and as far back as they can be given the location of the step, etc inside the body.

In the Summer, a LOT of heat comes out of them when I am stopped, I don't have any way to tell how much when underway.
--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
 
Just remove your inner fender liners.
then there is no longer any venting restriction
________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of Carl Stouffer via Gmclist
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2020 9:33 AM
To: gmclist
Cc: Carl Stouffer
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Engine vents

Effectiveness not withstanding, you asked about location. Maybe the following photo will help:

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/mechanical/p34779-dodge-front-wheels.html

The PO installed vents on my coach are as high and as far back as they can be given the location of the step, etc inside the body.

In the Summer, a LOT of heat comes out of them when I am stopped, I don't have any way to tell how much when underway.
--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member

_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
On my first GMC, Some one along the way, added two engine vents to the sides. They were both open to the interior of the coach, but the driver's side
had an extra special function. Whomever had installed an axial fan, aimed to exhaust engine hot air out thru the vent. It had an elaborate system of
relays and thermostats designed to engage the fan at certain temps and to disable the fan in case of fire.
I removed the relay system and went to a simple dash switch. When you flipped the switch, you could actually see the temperature gauge drop. I felt
that the switch gave me better control than betting on someone else's design without documentation.
Looking into the placement of the vents, they were lower than the plywood floor, not intruding into the passenger compartment.
--
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
 
However removing the fender liners can allow water and mud and road grime to splash against the engine.
I have an album on the GMC photos site showing height I installed a louvered vent in the side of the wheel well liner. I’m not at home right now but if anyone wants the link let me know.

Emery Stora

>
> Just remove your inner fender liners.
> then there is no longer any venting restriction
> ________________________________
> From: Gmclist on behalf of Carl Stouffer via Gmclist
> Sent: Friday, January 24, 2020 9:33 AM
> To: gmclist
> Cc: Carl Stouffer
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Engine vents
>
> Effectiveness not withstanding, you asked about location. Maybe the following photo will help:
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/mechanical/p34779-dodge-front-wheels.html
>
> The PO installed vents on my coach are as high and as far back as they can be given the location of the step, etc inside the body.
>
> In the Summer, a LOT of heat comes out of them when I am stopped, I don't have any way to tell how much when underway.
> --
> Carl Stouffer
> '75 ex Palm Beach
> Tucson, AZ.
> Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
> Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Keith,
I don't know where you live but all the travels that I do year round with
rain slush, snow and mud you get all sorts of stuff splashed on your engine
and engine compartment with no wheel wells to protect it. BAD choice to
remove them! I agree with Emery.

J.R. Wright
GMC Great Laker
GMCGL Tech Editor
GMC Eastern States
GMCMHI
TZE Zone Restorations
78 Buskirk Custom 29.5' Stretch
75 Avion (Under going Frame up Restoration)

On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 3:41 PM Emery Stora via Gmclist <

> However removing the fender liners can allow water and mud and road grime
> to splash against the engine.
> I have an album on the GMC photos site showing height I installed a
> louvered vent in the side of the wheel well liner. I’m not at home right
> now but if anyone wants the link let me know.
>
> Emery Stora
>
> > On Jan 24, 2020, at 2:33 PM, Keith V via Gmclist <

> >
> > Just remove your inner fender liners.
> > then there is no longer any venting restriction
> > ________________________________
> > From: Gmclist on behalf of Carl
> Stouffer via Gmclist
> > Sent: Friday, January 24, 2020 9:33 AM
> > To: gmclist
> > Cc: Carl Stouffer
> > Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Engine vents
> >
> > Effectiveness not withstanding, you asked about location. Maybe the
> following photo will help:
> >
> >
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/mechanical/p34779-dodge-front-wheels.html
> >
> > The PO installed vents on my coach are as high and as far back as they
> can be given the location of the step, etc inside the body.
> >
> > In the Summer, a LOT of heat comes out of them when I am stopped, I
> don't have any way to tell how much when underway.
> > --
> > Carl Stouffer
> > '75 ex Palm Beach
> > Tucson, AZ.
> > Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive,
> Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American
> Eagles,
> > Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
On the other hand, our GMC, with the inner 1/2 of the wheel well liners
removed, has been from Key West, FL to Fairbanks, AK with no noticeable
pollution of the engine -- and VERY stable temperature control (aided,
probably by the complete grill-to-radiator ducting).

I admittedly don't go on dirt roads very often, and NEVER (hopefully in
this lifetime) go anywhere snow/ice/slush covered! :-)

Ken H.

On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 6:22 PM John Wright via Gmclist <

> Keith,
> I don't know where you live but all the travels that I do year round with
> rain slush, snow and mud you get all sorts of stuff splashed on your engine
> and engine compartment with no wheel wells to protect it. BAD choice to
> remove them! I agree with Emery.
>
> J.R. Wright
> GMC Great Laker
> GMCGL Tech Editor
> GMC Eastern States
> GMCMHI
> TZE Zone Restorations
> 78 Buskirk Custom 29.5' Stretch
> 75 Avion (Under going Frame up Restoration)
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 3:41 PM Emery Stora via Gmclist <

>
> > However removing the fender liners can allow water and mud and road grime
> > to splash against the engine.
> > I have an album on the GMC photos site showing height I installed a
> > louvered vent in the side of the wheel well liner. I’m not at home right
> > now but if anyone wants the link let me know.
> >
> > Emery Stora
> >
> > > On Jan 24, 2020, at 2:33 PM, Keith V via Gmclist <

> > >
> > > Just remove your inner fender liners.
> > > then there is no longer any venting restriction
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Gmclist on behalf of Carl
> > Stouffer via Gmclist
> > > Sent: Friday, January 24, 2020 9:33 AM
> > > To: gmclist
> > > Cc: Carl Stouffer
> > > Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Engine vents
> > >
> > > Effectiveness not withstanding, you asked about location. Maybe the
> > following photo will help:
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/mechanical/p34779-dodge-front-wheels.html
> > >
> > > The PO installed vents on my coach are as high and as far back as they
> > can be given the location of the step, etc inside the body.
> > >
> > > In the Summer, a LOT of heat comes out of them when I am stopped, I
> > don't have any way to tell how much when underway.
> > > --
> > > Carl Stouffer
> > > '75 ex Palm Beach
> > > Tucson, AZ.
> > > Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final
> drive,
> > Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American
> > Eagles,
> > > Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Iirc the fender liners also function to create a draft through the engine
bay to help control excessive heat buildup in the doghouse. Read it here so
it must be true. Sure is a heck of a lot easier to work on without them
however.

Sully
Bellevue wa

On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 5:10 PM Ken Henderson via Gmclist <

> On the other hand, our GMC, with the inner 1/2 of the wheel well liners
> removed, has been from Key West, FL to Fairbanks, AK with no noticeable
> pollution of the engine -- and VERY stable temperature control (aided,
> probably by the complete grill-to-radiator ducting).
>
> I admittedly don't go on dirt roads very often, and NEVER (hopefully in
> this lifetime) go anywhere snow/ice/slush covered! :-)
>
> Ken H.
>
> On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 6:22 PM John Wright via Gmclist <

>
> > Keith,
> > I don't know where you live but all the travels that I do year round with
> > rain slush, snow and mud you get all sorts of stuff splashed on your
> engine
> > and engine compartment with no wheel wells to protect it. BAD choice to
> > remove them! I agree with Emery.
> >
> > J.R. Wright
> > GMC Great Laker
> > GMCGL Tech Editor
> > GMC Eastern States
> > GMCMHI
> > TZE Zone Restorations
> > 78 Buskirk Custom 29.5' Stretch
> > 75 Avion (Under going Frame up Restoration)
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 3:41 PM Emery Stora via Gmclist <

> >
> > > However removing the fender liners can allow water and mud and road
> grime
> > > to splash against the engine.
> > > I have an album on the GMC photos site showing height I installed a
> > > louvered vent in the side of the wheel well liner. I’m not at home
> right
> > > now but if anyone wants the link let me know.
> > >
> > > Emery Stora
> > >
> > > > On Jan 24, 2020, at 2:33 PM, Keith V via Gmclist <

> > > >
> > > > Just remove your inner fender liners.
> > > > then there is no longer any venting restriction
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Gmclist on behalf of Carl
> > > Stouffer via Gmclist
> > > > Sent: Friday, January 24, 2020 9:33 AM
> > > > To: gmclist
> > > > Cc: Carl Stouffer
> > > > Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Engine vents
> > > >
> > > > Effectiveness not withstanding, you asked about location. Maybe the
> > > following photo will help:
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/mechanical/p34779-dodge-front-wheels.html
> > > >
> > > > The PO installed vents on my coach are as high and as far back as
> they
> > > can be given the location of the step, etc inside the body.
> > > >
> > > > In the Summer, a LOT of heat comes out of them when I am stopped, I
> > > don't have any way to tell how much when underway.
> > > > --
> > > > Carl Stouffer
> > > > '75 ex Palm Beach
> > > > Tucson, AZ.
> > > > Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final
> > drive,
> > > Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American
> > > Eagles,
> > > > Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
I think the firebird Transam version works better visually. The lower corner cut out parallels the wheel arch, the vertical trailing edge matches the
GMC panel line, and it is a GM part, sooo it could have been an option...

Jim B has a coach on his lot that had this vent installed. Don't think I took a pic.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/70-81-Trans-Am-Fender-Air-Extractor-Side-Louver-Vent-Scoop-Set-NEW-/330975978677

> Along the same lines, I picked up a set of 1980-1981 Camaro Z28 'air
> extractor' vents I was thinking of using. Has anyone used these on
> their coach? They look like these:
> https://www.jegs.com/i/OER/691/K8081/10002/-1. The hole is mounted
> towards the front of the vehicle, so airflow works to suction out the
> air.
>
> -Dave
>
> 1978 Transmode near Pittsburgh
>
> On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 1:28 PM Thom High via Gmclist <

>
> > I've seen a few of these with engine vents on the side. Is there a
> > standard placement where these go? Or is it just chance? Any help or
> > guidance will
> > be appreciated. I purchased a set of stainless vents, for a boat, I
> plan
> > on using.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
> jimk
> http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
> 1-800-752-7502
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

--
76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen
guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center...
Columbia, SC.
 
Oh, those do look really nice. I might go that route instead.

>
> I think the firebird Transam version works better visually. The lower corner cut out parallels the wheel arch, the vertical trailing edge matches the
> GMC panel line, and it is a GM part, sooo it could have been an option...
>
> Jim B has a coach on his lot that had this vent installed. Don't think I took a pic.
>
>
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/70-81-Trans-Am-Fender-Air-Extractor-Side-Louver-Vent-Scoop-Set-NEW-/330975978677
>

>> Along the same lines, I picked up a set of 1980-1981 Camaro Z28 'air
>> extractor' vents I was thinking of using. Has anyone used these on
>> their coach? They look like these:
>> https://www.jegs.com/i/OER/691/K8081/10002/-1. The hole is mounted
>> towards the front of the vehicle, so airflow works to suction out the
>> air.
>>
>> -Dave
>>
>> 1978 Transmode near Pittsburgh
>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 1:28 PM Thom High via Gmclist <

>>>
>>> I've seen a few of these with engine vents on the side. Is there a
>>> standard placement where these go? Or is it just chance? Any help or
>>> guidance will
>>> be appreciated. I purchased a set of stainless vents, for a boat, I
>> plan
>>> on using.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jim Kanomata
>> Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
>> jimk
>> http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
>> 1-800-752-7502
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> --
> 76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen
> guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center...
> Columbia, SC.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org