Engine Removal

Carl Stouffer

Well-known member
Jan 15, 2009
4,693
381
83
Tucson, Arizona 85718
Okay, my engine and transmission decided to crap out on the way home from Las Vegas on Friday. My wife finagled a tow home (167 miles) out of the
insurance company and the coach is now safely ensconced in my driveway at home.

Next step is to remove the engine and transmission. I have read the procedure in the service manual, done a search on this site, and emailed friends
who have done this, so I'm not completely in the dark, and have a basic idea of how to get this done, but I was wondering if any of you can offer any
sage advice to make things go as smoothly as possible.

Thanks,
--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
 
Aw Geez Carl! That's a heck of a late Birthday present! Sorry to hear this.

While I can't offer any advice, I will be watching from the sidelines and
providing moral support.

Guy Lopes
76 (ish) 23' RB Birchaven
Sacramento, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Carl
Stouffer
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 12:29 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: [GMCnet] Engine Removal

Okay, my engine and transmission decided to crap out on the way home from
Las Vegas on Friday.
 
Carl, at least two ways. Out the top. Out the bottom. In your case, out the
bottom kinda makes more sense. Gotta jack it up high, take the final drive
with the tranny. Support the engine from above, once the tranny is clear,
then lower the engine onto a creeper, and out she comes.
Jim Hupy

Aw Geez Carl! That's a heck of a late Birthday present! Sorry to hear this.

While I can't offer any advice, I will be watching from the sidelines and
providing moral support.

Guy Lopes
76 (ish) 23' RB Birchaven
Sacramento, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Carl
Stouffer
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 12:29 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: [GMCnet] Engine Removal

Okay, my engine and transmission decided to crap out on the way home from
Las Vegas on Friday.

_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Depending upon the condition of your front suspension wear parts it might
make sense to pull the front frame clip with the engine/trans/final drive
installed. If your suspension and brakes are all good and your only issues
are the motor and trans then it might make more sense to pull the
engine/trans only. Pulling the clip is pretty straight forward and allows
better access for assembing the motor to the trans as well as engine
accessories back onto the motor. If you want more on pulling the module
drop me a line. I’ve done it once.

Sully
77 eleganza 2
Bellevue

> Aw Geez Carl! That's a heck of a late Birthday present! Sorry to hear this.
>
> While I can't offer any advice, I will be watching from the sidelines and
> providing moral support.
>
> Guy Lopes
> 76 (ish) 23' RB Birchaven
> Sacramento, CA
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Carl
> Stouffer
> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 12:29 PM
> To: gmclist
> Subject: [GMCnet] Engine Removal
>
> Okay, my engine and transmission decided to crap out on the way home from
> Las Vegas on Friday.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Three basic methods; Remove front clip, remove out the top of engine hatch, and drop out the bottom. Is the coach on a good firm surface?
Do you have a few extra hands? Out the top of hatch requires a trolley to move the assembly. Out the bottom, without a pit requires lifting the front
of the coach at least 32 inches. I have never done a front clip, but lots of auxiliary things to move out before you can remove front clip assembly.
A pit really makes it easier, but most of us do not have access to one. A lift will also substitute for a pit.
If you elect to take it out the top, take your front seats out first. Gives you much more room to maneuver. Put something down to protect your
interior.
I did not notice if you have a 23 or 26. 23 engine can come out the large window on the passenger side, using a cherry picker. Removing the window is
not difficult, just an extra step.
Good luck, it's just heavy and awkward.
Tom, who has done two through the top.
--
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
 
Most people I have talked to prefer to go out the top. The one I helped remove was fairly easy to bring out the top.

I would pull out your front seats, dinette and couch if you can. Put down some sort if floor protector so you keep inside clean as you make many
trips in and out.

You know David on facebook- call him as he is practiced lately. Also Tim Anderson has a couple engine R&R's this year.

Tranny has to drop down. After engine was out, tranny/final drive dropped out really easy.

--
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
 
Carl, sorry about the engine.
I had my engine replaced last year by Frank Borrmann up in Canada.
He went from the bottom. He didn't use a lift on it, but he did have to raise the entire coach 30". He did caution me that sometimes the front windows
might crack if not raised carefully.
His preference was out the bottom.
Good luck, Scott
--
Scott Nutter
1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi.
Houston, Texas
 
About a month and a half ago I went down to Blaine's mostly to watch and maybe help Frank Borrman and Dick Paterson replace an engine in a 1978 GMC.
They started at 7AM and when I got there at noon the old engine was out the bottom and the new engine was already in place. I did not learn much and
I did not help much because there was nothing I could contribute. I planned on staying 2 days but by the evening there wasn't much left to do other
than to eat dinner. So I went back home.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
Carl,
I have an engine gantry assembly, but getting it to you would be an issue.

Gary Coaster / Reno, NV
1977 GMC Eleganza ll
GMC RV Day Night Shade Sales
GMCShades
www.GMCMotorhomemarketplace.com/GMC_Shades/

>
> Three basic methods; Remove front clip, remove out the top of engine hatch, and drop out the bottom. Is the coach on a good firm surface?
> Do you have a few extra hands? Out the top of hatch requires a trolley to move the assembly. Out the bottom, without a pit requires lifting the front
> of the coach at least 32 inches. I have never done a front clip, but lots of auxiliary things to move out before you can remove front clip assembly.
> A pit really makes it easier, but most of us do not have access to one. A lift will also substitute for a pit.
> If you elect to take it out the top, take your front seats out first. Gives you much more room to maneuver. Put something down to protect your
> interior.
> I did not notice if you have a 23 or 26. 23 engine can come out the large window on the passenger side, using a cherry picker. Removing the window is
> not difficult, just an extra step.
> Good luck, it's just heavy and awkward.
> Tom, who has done two through the top.
> --
> 2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
> KA4CSG
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Hupy has one in Salem. Not much better.

Sully

> Carl,
> I have an engine gantry assembly, but getting it to you would be an issue.
>
> Gary Coaster / Reno, NV
> 1977 GMC Eleganza ll
> GMC RV Day Night Shade Sales
> GMCShades
> www.GMCMotorhomemarketplace.com/GMC_Shades/
>

> >
> > Three basic methods; Remove front clip, remove out the top of engine
> hatch, and drop out the bottom. Is the coach on a good firm surface?
> > Do you have a few extra hands? Out the top of hatch requires a trolley
> to move the assembly. Out the bottom, without a pit requires lifting the
> front
> > of the coach at least 32 inches. I have never done a front clip, but
> lots of auxiliary things to move out before you can remove front clip
> assembly.
> > A pit really makes it easier, but most of us do not have access to one.
> A lift will also substitute for a pit.
> > If you elect to take it out the top, take your front seats out first.
> Gives you much more room to maneuver. Put something down to protect your
> > interior.
> > I did not notice if you have a 23 or 26. 23 engine can come out the
> large window on the passenger side, using a cherry picker. Removing the
> window is
> > not difficult, just an extra step.
> > Good luck, it's just heavy and awkward.
> > Tom, who has done two through the top.
> > --
> > 2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
> > KA4CSG
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
I just finished removing/Installing my 5th...Yes the 5th...engine in my GMC. Long story not worth repeating, or should I say, in no mood at the
moment to repeat. Any way, Here are a few tips..not in any order.

In all cases, I took it out the bottom. You need 30-32" floor to front crossmember when using a 2" high creeper to slide engine out.

Disconnect all 12v power...Including the house battery.

Get one of those small impact drivers and a socket adaptor and use it to spin off all of the nuts and bolts. Really shortens the disassembly time.
Can also be used to reassemble but must be careful not to over torque. I found it really handy to reassemble the 6 special bolts on the drive axles.

As you take things apart, bag all of the nuts, bolts, brackets etc for each accessory in baggies and label the bag. Take the alternator out...bag the
parts and put with the alternator. Take the Carb off, bag the bolts and other attached stuff and put with carb....etc...etc. This may take a little
extra time on disassembly, but saves mega time when reassembling. Be annal about this!!

After unbolting the drive axles, take a coat hanger wire and hang as far up and forward as possible.

On reassembly, when lifting the trans up to match with the back of the engine block, the slower you go, the faster you will go. Do it in small
increments. Move it a little, and check for alignment...move a little and check for parallel to block, move a little more to get one long bolt
started. Many little moves....A little at a time and suddenly it just "clunk" it's in. Patience is the name of the game here.

The trans mounts have three bolts. Two to bolt to the trans adaptor plate and one bolt to the rear frame member. It is much easier to mount it to the
adaptor plate with the two bolts, and only have to worry about aligning one bolt on the frame, than bolting to the frame first and trying to align two
bolts.

For more clearance dropping the trans, unbolt the front motor mount (making sure it is securely hung from a frame and block and tackle) and slide the
motor forward a couple inches. Trans will drop a lot easier.

On disassembly, take the water pump, flywheel, and exhaust manifolds off before dropping the engine. Gives you a lot more maneuver room. This is an
easy thing if you are using a portable impact driver.

Use your smart phone and take pictures of brackets and belts holding the alternator, AC compressor, power steering, before you take these off. Helps
on reassembly.

Before removing the distributor, put engine at TDC compression stroke, pull the distributor cap off and take a picture of where the rotor and vacuum
advance are pointed. Also, mark each plug wire with the number of the cylinder it came from. If nothing else just use masking tape and magic marker.

If you have a one piece radiator shroud, go to the photo site where it shows shroud modification, and cut that thing in half while it is out. Make
brackets to bolt it back together. Makes servicing water pump, and other stuff at a later date MUCH easier.

I dropped my engine on a wood creeper that has a hole drilled in to accept the drain plug of the oil pan. Blocked it up with 6 X 6's and 2 X 4's,
sheet rock screwing them to the creeper, and hooked on it with a chain and pulled out SLOWLY with my lawn tractor. Had a friend assist with this.

Screwed a 12" X 16" piece of 5/8" plywood to the lift plate on a low lift, long reach floor jack. Lowered the trans out of the coach with the jack
and pulled it out from under by hand.

Either drain most of oil out of the FD, or find something that fits in the right hand axle drive seal to keep it from spilling FD fluid all over
everything when you pull the axle out. I used a large socket that snug fit in the seal with a 1/2" to 3/4" drive adaptor in the socket drive.

Double check and recheck each hose connection before pouring in the antifreeze.

NO matter who does the engine, put it on an engine stand and run the oil pump BEFORE you put the engine in. Now is the time to check all oil gallery
plugs are in and tight and you have good oil pressure. You don't want to find out the plug on the back of the block was missed after the engine is
in.

Replace all questionable belts and hoses NOW.

Hope this helps

--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
 
Larry, your instructions are so thorough I believe I could change out an
engine and transmission! I know the guys who will actually do it
appreciate your help.

See y'all in Tucson.

Sandra

> I just finished removing/Installing my 5th...Yes the 5th...engine in my
> GMC. Long story not worth repeating, or should I say, in no mood at the
> moment to repeat. Any way, Here are a few tips..not in any order.
>
> In all cases, I took it out the bottom. You need 30-32" floor to front
> crossmember when using a 2" high creeper to slide engine out.
>
> Disconnect all 12v power...Including the house battery.
>
> Get one of those small impact drivers and a socket adaptor and use it to
> spin off all of the nuts and bolts. Really shortens the disassembly time.
> Can also be used to reassemble but must be careful not to over torque. I
> found it really handy to reassemble the 6 special bolts on the drive axles.
>
> As you take things apart, bag all of the nuts, bolts, brackets etc for
> each accessory in baggies and label the bag. Take the alternator out...bag
> the
> parts and put with the alternator. Take the Carb off, bag the bolts and
> other attached stuff and put with carb....etc...etc. This may take a little
> extra time on disassembly, but saves mega time when reassembling. Be
> annal about this!!
>
> After unbolting the drive axles, take a coat hanger wire and hang as far
> up and forward as possible.
>
> On reassembly, when lifting the trans up to match with the back of the
> engine block, the slower you go, the faster you will go. Do it in small
> increments. Move it a little, and check for alignment...move a little and
> check for parallel to block, move a little more to get one long bolt
> started. Many little moves....A little at a time and suddenly it just
> "clunk" it's in. Patience is the name of the game here.
>
> The trans mounts have three bolts. Two to bolt to the trans adaptor plate
> and one bolt to the rear frame member. It is much easier to mount it to the
> adaptor plate with the two bolts, and only have to worry about aligning
> one bolt on the frame, than bolting to the frame first and trying to align
> two
> bolts.
>
> For more clearance dropping the trans, unbolt the front motor mount
> (making sure it is securely hung from a frame and block and tackle) and
> slide the
> motor forward a couple inches. Trans will drop a lot easier.
>
> On disassembly, take the water pump, flywheel, and exhaust manifolds off
> before dropping the engine. Gives you a lot more maneuver room. This is an
> easy thing if you are using a portable impact driver.
>
> Use your smart phone and take pictures of brackets and belts holding the
> alternator, AC compressor, power steering, before you take these off. Helps
> on reassembly.
>
> Before removing the distributor, put engine at TDC compression stroke,
> pull the distributor cap off and take a picture of where the rotor and
> vacuum
> advance are pointed. Also, mark each plug wire with the number of the
> cylinder it came from. If nothing else just use masking tape and magic
> marker.
>
> If you have a one piece radiator shroud, go to the photo site where it
> shows shroud modification, and cut that thing in half while it is out. Make
> brackets to bolt it back together. Makes servicing water pump, and other
> stuff at a later date MUCH easier.
>
> I dropped my engine on a wood creeper that has a hole drilled in to accept
> the drain plug of the oil pan. Blocked it up with 6 X 6's and 2 X 4's,
> sheet rock screwing them to the creeper, and hooked on it with a chain and
> pulled out SLOWLY with my lawn tractor. Had a friend assist with this.
>
> Screwed a 12" X 16" piece of 5/8" plywood to the lift plate on a low lift,
> long reach floor jack. Lowered the trans out of the coach with the jack
> and pulled it out from under by hand.
>
> Either drain most of oil out of the FD, or find something that fits in the
> right hand axle drive seal to keep it from spilling FD fluid all over
> everything when you pull the axle out. I used a large socket that snug
> fit in the seal with a 1/2" to 3/4" drive adaptor in the socket drive.
>
> Double check and recheck each hose connection before pouring in the
> antifreeze.
>
> NO matter who does the engine, put it on an engine stand and run the oil
> pump BEFORE you put the engine in. Now is the time to check all oil gallery
> plugs are in and tight and you have good oil pressure. You don't want to
> find out the plug on the back of the block was missed after the engine is
> in.
>
> Replace all questionable belts and hoses NOW.
>
> Hope this helps
>
>
> --
> Larry
> 78 Royale w/500 Caddy
> Menomonie, WI.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Carl,

Sorry to read about your PITA, but unfortunately shit does happen and usually at the most inopportune time.
My contribution to what other have said is to put the back of the coach on ramps. The more level the coach is at the height
needed, the easier to disconnect and reconnect engine and trans. A high pitch make it a bear to assemble parts.

FWIW.

> Okay, my engine and transmission decided to crap out on the way home from Las Vegas on Friday. My wife finagled a tow home (167 miles) out of the
> insurance company and the coach is now safely ensconced in my driveway at home.
>
> Next step is to remove the engine and transmission. I have read the procedure in the service manual, done a search on this site, and emailed
> friends who have done this, so I'm not completely in the dark, and have a basic idea of how to get this done, but I was wondering if any of you can
> offer any sage advice to make things go as smoothly as possible.
>
> Thanks,

--
”When we avoid the mistakes we might have made, we sometimes make the mistakes that we might have avoided.”

Adrien & Jenny Genesoto
75 Glenbrook 26-3
Yuba City,Ca. Text 530-nine-3-three-3-nine-nine-6
 
Larry,
What's the chances of you buying my neighbors house and moving to Texas?
Just think of all the fun times We could have working on my GMC!!
Scott.
--
Scott Nutter
1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi.
Houston, Texas
 
Thanks for all the tips and advice. Since my front suspension/steering/brakes are all in good shape, I will not be going through all the extra steps
to remove the front sub-frame, although I can see the advantages of doing it that way.

My plan, at this point, is to remove the engine/transmission/final drive as a unit. Jim Decheine has done it this way as has (I believe) Ken
Henderson. Since my problem started with the transmission losing third gear, I need to do the tranny as well. The drivetrain has 105,000 miles on it
and was going to be due for an overhaul soon anyway.

Larry, I can't imagine having to do this five times! My wife suggested that taking advice from you on this might be akin to taking marital advice
from a guy who has been married five times :roll: :lol: . Your tips are good, and I plan to take lots of pictures as I go along and will
definitely bag up all the components. I have been into the front of the engine, replacing the timing chain early on, and the top, replacing the
intake manifold, so I DO have SOME experience with engine accessories and vacuum hoses etc. Thanks

I do have a lifting frame that I acquired from Steve Ferguson some time back but will need a couple of come-alongs and/or a chain hoist to maneuver
the engine out of the hole. I'll get it done!
--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
 
> Larry,
> What's the chances of you buying my neighbors house and moving to Texas?
> Just think of all the fun times We could have working on my GMC!!
> Scott.

Scott,
I'm looking out my front window right now and cannot see more than 100ft or so because of all of the snow fall. We are in the mist of a full fledged
snow storm, so moving to Texas right now is sounding pretty good.

--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
 
> Carl,
>
> Sorry to read about your PITA, but unfortunately shit does happen and usually at the most inopportune time.
> My contribution to what other have said is to put the back of the coach on ramps. The more level the coach is at the height
> needed, the easier to disconnect and reconnect engine and trans. A high pitch make it a bear to assemble parts.
>
> FWIW.
>
>
>

> > Okay, my engine and transmission decided to crap out on the way home from Las Vegas on Friday. My wife finagled a tow home (167 miles) out of
> > the insurance company and the coach is now safely ensconced in my driveway at home.
> >
> > Next step is to remove the engine and transmission. I have read the procedure in the service manual, done a search on this site, and emailed
> > friends who have done this, so I'm not completely in the dark, and have a basic idea of how to get this done, but I was wondering if any of you
> > can offer any sage advice to make things go as smoothly as possible.
> >
> > Thanks,

Scott,
Adrien's advice of putting it up on ramps is really a good one. If you are taking it out the bottom, it gives you a lot more flexibility in terms of
moving around. All but one of the swaps I've done have been with the coach on a set of ramps. JWID

--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
 
Both the engine and transmission can be removed out the top with a gantry
type hoist. You have to be careful with interiors. Jerry Work sewed slip
covers for his interior on the Clasco coach when I did his engine. Very
good. I double bag engines and have block off plates for the oil filter
base as well as the cooling system ports. I use heater hose block offs on
the intake manifold. Unnecessary steps if the engine comes out the bottom.
It all depends upon shop layout. I have limited space in front of the
coach, but quite a bit of room to the sides. So, the gantry works well for
my shop.
On a 23 foot, you can reach in through the door with a cherry
picker, and snatch the engine through the door.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or

> > Carl,
> >
> > Sorry to read about your PITA, but unfortunately shit does happen and
> usually at the most inopportune time.
> > My contribution to what other have said is to put the back of the coach
> on ramps. The more level the coach is at the height
> > needed, the easier to disconnect and reconnect engine and trans. A high
> pitch make it a bear to assemble parts.
> >
> > FWIW.
> >
> >
> >

> > > Okay, my engine and transmission decided to crap out on the way home
> from Las Vegas on Friday. My wife finagled a tow home (167 miles) out of
> > > the insurance company and the coach is now safely ensconced in my
> driveway at home.
> > >
> > > Next step is to remove the engine and transmission. I have read the
> procedure in the service manual, done a search on this site, and emailed
> > > friends who have done this, so I'm not completely in the dark, and
> have a basic idea of how to get this done, but I was wondering if any of you
> > > can offer any sage advice to make things go as smoothly as possible.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
>
> Scott,
> Adrien's advice of putting it up on ramps is really a good one. If you are
> taking it out the bottom, it gives you a lot more flexibility in terms of
> moving around. All but one of the swaps I've done have been with the coach
> on a set of ramps. JWID
>
> --
> Larry
> 78 Royale w/500 Caddy
> Menomonie, WI.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>