Engine removal

henderson

New member
Nov 15, 1997
100
0
0
Boy! Do I feel powerful....! When I had the 455 rebuilt, there was
only me to take it out of the compartment and thru the door! Of
course I did have a little help from the "A" frame and rails I
built...
Sounds to me like maybe this shop just doesn't want the bother.... or
the business.

Tom - Houston
76 Birhaven

>BTW, at local garage which rebuilt a GMC engine last year (Here in
Kalamazoo),
>the owner told me it would cost over $5000.00 on my coach. He said
it took 4
>men to lift it out of the engine compartment and had to be taken out
the side
>door to repair the engine. He also said it wouldn't like to do
another one. So I
>guess I had better look for another shop.
 
Hi Tom,
How about a picture and spects of your "A" frame
and rails??
Rob Teed 74 Painted Desert Lansing,Mi

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-gmcmotorhome
> [mailto:owner-gmcmotorhome]On Behalf Of Henderson
> Sent: Friday, October 30, 1998 11:20 PM
> To: gmcmotorhome
> Subject: GMC: Engine removal
>
>
> Boy! Do I feel powerful....! When I had the 455 rebuilt, there was
> only me to take it out of the compartment and thru the door! Of
> course I did have a little help from the "A" frame and rails I
> built...
> Sounds to me like maybe this shop just doesn't want the bother.... or
> the business.
>
> Tom - Houston
> 76 Birhaven
>
> >BTW, at local garage which rebuilt a GMC engine last year (Here in
> Kalamazoo),
> >the owner told me it would cost over $5000.00 on my coach. He said
> it took 4
> >men to lift it out of the engine compartment and had to be taken out
> the side
> >door to repair the engine. He also said it wouldn't like to do
> another one. So I
> >guess I had better look for another shop.
>
>
>
>
 
I am thinking seriously about replacing and rebuilding the complete front
end to include the engine and transmission. Have heard that it is possible
to take the complete subframe out at one time, adn this would seem to be an
easy way to clean the subfram, repaint it, rebuild everything where it is
easy to get at etc. Has anyone done it and if so how is it done?

Also want to build a very heavy duty transmission, with an allison torque
converter. Has anyone done it, what parts do I need and where do I get them.

Shouldn't this kind of information be on Patricks site if anyone has it?
this is informatio that a lot of people could use.

>Hi Tom,
> How about a picture and spects of your "A" frame
> and rails??
>Rob Teed 74 Painted Desert Lansing,Mi
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-gmcmotorhome
>> [mailto:owner-gmcmotorhome]On Behalf Of Henderson
>> Sent: Friday, October 30, 1998 11:20 PM
>> To: gmcmotorhome
>> Subject: GMC: Engine removal
>>
>>
>> Boy! Do I feel powerful....! When I had the 455 rebuilt, there was
>> only me to take it out of the compartment and thru the door! Of
>> course I did have a little help from the "A" frame and rails I
>> built...
>> Sounds to me like maybe this shop just doesn't want the bother.... or
>> the business.
>>
>> Tom - Houston
>> 76 Birhaven
>>
>> >BTW, at local garage which rebuilt a GMC engine last year (Here in
>> Kalamazoo),
>> >the owner told me it would cost over $5000.00 on my coach. He said
>> it took 4
>> >men to lift it out of the engine compartment and had to be taken out
>> the side
>> >door to repair the engine. He also said it wouldn't like to do
>> another one. So I
>> >guess I had better look for another shop.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach
 
>
> I am thinking seriously about replacing and rebuilding the complete front
> end to include the engine and transmission. Have heard that it is possible
> to take the complete subframe out at one time, adn this would seem to be an
> easy way to clean the subfram, repaint it, rebuild everything where it is
> easy to get at etc. Has anyone done it and if so how is it done?

There was an extremely interesting session at Marion by a Canadian
GMCer(don't recall the name right now, but I can look it up) on frame
rail replacement. He left the engine cradle in place, but it wouldn't
be much more difficult to pull the entire frame including cradle using
his methods.

> Also want to build a very heavy duty transmission, with an allison torque
> converter. Has anyone done it, what parts do I need and where do I get them.

I talked with Dick Paterson about torque converters. He had some
interesting insights. Claimed that the allison's stall speed was wrong
and made the GMC drive like a bus. He's found a company in Canada that
only does converters and has designed one for him. Might check with
Dick for his ideas and a contact with the torque converter guys.

> Shouldn't this kind of information be on Patricks site if anyone has it?
> this is informatio that a lot of people could use.

I'd love to put it up. I didn't talk with the frame rail replacement
guy at Marion. He had some good slides. I might try to look him up in
the GMCMI directory and see if he want's to publish them on my site.

Patrick
- --
Patrick Flowers
Mailto:patri63

The GMC Motorhome Page
http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
 
Just when I thought Rube Goldburg was dead and gone, I find his inspiratin
still living on. You sure made a believer out of me! When you said it
could be done that way I couldn't understand how, congratulations on your
ingenuity!

Ron Bartels

>Rob: sorry, I'd like to help out but that engine rebuild was about 10
years ago and I have long since dismantled the
>contraption I used to get the 455 out of the coach.
>In any case, my specs would likely not help you since I have an 23' coach
with the entry door directly behind the passenger
>seat. The concept should still work though, on a 26' coach.
>What I used was:
>
>a rollable engine crane -- rented from the local Rent-all store
>a chain hoist -- I had one already, but this can be rented too;
>a chain hoist trolley -- I borrowed one, but this can also be rented; It
turned out I didn't need the tilter leveler, as the
>chain managed to pull the engine straight up.
>a length of " I " beam, long enough to span from dash to past the door --
picked one up at a metal scrap yard for less than
>$20;
>some 2X4's, 4X4's and some bolts -- these are to build the beam supports
>
>Envision a long "sawhorse", with one upright end built shorter than the
other, to accommodate the engine compartment height.
>The ends of this sawhorse are built out of 2X4's & 4X4's, and support the
" I " beam. The support heights were measured from
>the ceiling, getting the bottom of the beam as high off the floor as
possible with still room to maneuver a trolley on the
>beam.
>I removed the front seats, covered the carpet, placed the " I " beam
sawhorse in place, from dash to door. The trolley was
>placed on the " I " beam, and from it hangs the chain hoist that pulls up
the engine.
>(The only challenge I can see for a 26' is how you would get a longer beam
the coach. Angle it though the window?)
>
>I'm assuming that anyone considering doing this themselves will have some
knowledge on how to unfasten everything for an
>engine removal.....there are some parts that are best removed (ie fan) for
an easier extraction. The GMC manual is of course
>an important guide!
>
> With everything loosen, the chain in place on the bolts of the intake
manifold in such a manner as to balance the lifting,
>the hoist lifts engine, transmission and final drive all out as one unit.
Once out of the compartment, hanging by chain hoist
>on the " I " beam trolley, the whole unit can be scooted down the beam to
the door.
>
>There I had placed the engine crane, outside the coach with it's arm
sticking inside the doorway. The transfer from " I "
>beam to crane arm was made by hooking the arm to the link of the chain
hoist, and lifting the crane arm up thereby releasing
>the tension on the trolley. With the engine unit hanging on the end of
the crane, I rolled the crane back, moving the engine
>unit out of the coach. Next step was to roll the crane and engine to the
pickup, load it all into the back and take it to the
>shop for rebuild.
>Easy, yes?
>Actually it wasn't all that bad. I got everything ready one day, including
building the supports for the beam. The next day
>I had it all done and even had time left to drive the engine to the shop.
Putting it all back was a little harder though,
>'cause then it was not just a matter of loosening and raising, but also of
alignment for refastening. I fortunately had a
>helper for that!
>
>If this doesn't make sense, and if you'll send me your fax number, I can
send you a conceptual drawing.
>Best of luck!
>
>Tom - Houston
>76 Birchaven
>
>> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 09:24:39 -0500
>> From: "robteed"
>> Subject: RE: GMC: Engine removal
>> Hi Tom,
>> How about a picture and spects of your "A" frame
>> and rails??
>> Rob Teed 74 Painted Desert Lansing,Mi
>>
>> > To: gmcmotorhome
>> > Subject: GMC: Engine removal
>> >
>> > Boy! Do I feel powerful....! When I had the 455 rebuilt, there was
>> > only me to take it out of the compartment and thru the door! Of
>> > course I did have a little help from the "A" frame and rails I
>> > built...
>> > Sounds to me like maybe this shop just doesn't want the bother.... or
>> > the business.
>> >
>> > Tom - Houston
>> > 76 Birhaven
>> >
>> > >BTW, at local garage which rebuilt a GMC engine last year (Here in
>> > Kalamazoo),
>> > >the owner told me it would cost over $5000.00 on my coach. He said
>> > it took 4
>> > >men to lift it out of the engine compartment and had to be taken out
>> > the side
>> > >door to repair the engine. He also said it wouldn't like to do
>> > another one. So I
>> > >guess I had better look for another shop.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
 
Rob: sorry, I'd like to help out but that engine rebuild was about 10 years ago and I have long since dismantled the
contraption I used to get the 455 out of the coach.
In any case, my specs would likely not help you since I have an 23' coach with the entry door directly behind the passenger
seat. The concept should still work though, on a 26' coach.
What I used was:

a rollable engine crane -- rented from the local Rent-all store
a chain hoist -- I had one already, but this can be rented too;
a chain hoist trolley -- I borrowed one, but this can also be rented; It turned out I didn't need the tilter leveler, as the
chain managed to pull the engine straight up.
a length of " I " beam, long enough to span from dash to past the door -- picked one up at a metal scrap yard for less than
$20;
some 2X4's, 4X4's and some bolts -- these are to build the beam supports

Envision a long "sawhorse", with one upright end built shorter than the other, to accommodate the engine compartment height.
The ends of this sawhorse are built out of 2X4's & 4X4's, and support the " I " beam. The support heights were measured from
the ceiling, getting the bottom of the beam as high off the floor as possible with still room to maneuver a trolley on the
beam.
I removed the front seats, covered the carpet, placed the " I " beam sawhorse in place, from dash to door. The trolley was
placed on the " I " beam, and from it hangs the chain hoist that pulls up the engine.
(The only challenge I can see for a 26' is how you would get a longer beam the coach. Angle it though the window?)

I'm assuming that anyone considering doing this themselves will have some knowledge on how to unfasten everything for an
engine removal.....there are some parts that are best removed (ie fan) for an easier extraction. The GMC manual is of course
an important guide!

With everything loosen, the chain in place on the bolts of the intake manifold in such a manner as to balance the lifting,
the hoist lifts engine, transmission and final drive all out as one unit. Once out of the compartment, hanging by chain hoist
on the " I " beam trolley, the whole unit can be scooted down the beam to the door.

There I had placed the engine crane, outside the coach with it's arm sticking inside the doorway. The transfer from " I "
beam to crane arm was made by hooking the arm to the link of the chain hoist, and lifting the crane arm up thereby releasing
the tension on the trolley. With the engine unit hanging on the end of the crane, I rolled the crane back, moving the engine
unit out of the coach. Next step was to roll the crane and engine to the pickup, load it all into the back and take it to the
shop for rebuild.
Easy, yes?
Actually it wasn't all that bad. I got everything ready one day, including building the supports for the beam. The next day
I had it all done and even had time left to drive the engine to the shop. Putting it all back was a little harder though,
'cause then it was not just a matter of loosening and raising, but also of alignment for refastening. I fortunately had a
helper for that!

If this doesn't make sense, and if you'll send me your fax number, I can send you a conceptual drawing.
Best of luck!

Tom - Houston
76 Birchaven

> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 09:24:39 -0500
> From: "robteed"
> Subject: RE: GMC: Engine removal
> Hi Tom,
> How about a picture and spects of your "A" frame
> and rails??
> Rob Teed 74 Painted Desert Lansing,Mi
>
> > To: gmcmotorhome
> > Subject: GMC: Engine removal
> >
> > Boy! Do I feel powerful....! When I had the 455 rebuilt, there was
> > only me to take it out of the compartment and thru the door! Of
> > course I did have a little help from the "A" frame and rails I
> > built...
> > Sounds to me like maybe this shop just doesn't want the bother.... or
> > the business.
> >
> > Tom - Houston
> > 76 Birhaven
> >
> > >BTW, at local garage which rebuilt a GMC engine last year (Here in
> > Kalamazoo),
> > >the owner told me it would cost over $5000.00 on my coach. He said
> > it took 4
> > >men to lift it out of the engine compartment and had to be taken out
> > the side
> > >door to repair the engine. He also said it wouldn't like to do
> > another one. So I
> > >guess I had better look for another shop.
>
>
>
>
>
 
Hi Tom,
It makes sense to Me. I used to pull motors when
I was younger...Used a tree branch. Im not planning
on removing the engine till next year.But the GMC might
have diffrent plans .
See Ya,
Rob Teed 74 Painted Desert Lansing Mi

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-gmcmotorhome
> [mailto:owner-gmcmotorhome]On Behalf Of Henderson
> Sent: Sunday, November 01, 1998 12:56 AM
> To: gmcmotorhome
> Subject: Re: GMC: engine removal
>
>
> Rob: sorry, I'd like to help out but that engine rebuild was
> about 10 years ago and I have long since dismantled the
> contraption I used to get the 455 out of the coach.
> In any case, my specs would likely not help you since I have an
> 23' coach with the entry door directly behind the passenger
> seat. The concept should still work though, on a 26' coach.
> What I used was:
>
> a rollable engine crane -- rented from the local Rent-all store
> a chain hoist -- I had one already, but this can be rented too;
> a chain hoist trolley -- I borrowed one, but this can also be
> rented; It turned out I didn't need the tilter leveler, as the
> chain managed to pull the engine straight up.
> a length of " I " beam, long enough to span from dash to past the
> door -- picked one up at a metal scrap yard for less than
> $20;
> some 2X4's, 4X4's and some bolts -- these are to build the beam supports
>
> Envision a long "sawhorse", with one upright end built shorter
> than the other, to accommodate the engine compartment height.
> The ends of this sawhorse are built out of 2X4's & 4X4's, and
> support the " I " beam. The support heights were measured from
> the ceiling, getting the bottom of the beam as high off the floor
> as possible with still room to maneuver a trolley on the
> beam.
> I removed the front seats, covered the carpet, placed the " I "
> beam sawhorse in place, from dash to door. The trolley was
> placed on the " I " beam, and from it hangs the chain hoist that
> pulls up the engine.
> (The only challenge I can see for a 26' is how you would get a
> longer beam the coach. Angle it though the window?)
>
> I'm assuming that anyone considering doing this themselves will
> have some knowledge on how to unfasten everything for an
> engine removal.....there are some parts that are best removed (ie
> fan) for an easier extraction. The GMC manual is of course
> an important guide!
>
> With everything loosen, the chain in place on the bolts of the
> intake manifold in such a manner as to balance the lifting,
> the hoist lifts engine, transmission and final drive all out as
> one unit. Once out of the compartment, hanging by chain hoist
> on the " I " beam trolley, the whole unit can be scooted down
> the beam to the door.
>
> There I had placed the engine crane, outside the coach with it's
> arm sticking inside the doorway. The transfer from " I "
> beam to crane arm was made by hooking the arm to the link of the
> chain hoist, and lifting the crane arm up thereby releasing
> the tension on the trolley. With the engine unit hanging on the
> end of the crane, I rolled the crane back, moving the engine
> unit out of the coach. Next step was to roll the crane and
> engine to the pickup, load it all into the back and take it to the
> shop for rebuild.
> Easy, yes?
> Actually it wasn't all that bad. I got everything ready one day,
> including building the supports for the beam. The next day
> I had it all done and even had time left to drive the engine to
> the shop. Putting it all back was a little harder though,
> 'cause then it was not just a matter of loosening and raising,
> but also of alignment for refastening. I fortunately had a
> helper for that!
>
> If this doesn't make sense, and if you'll send me your fax
> number, I can send you a conceptual drawing.
> Best of luck!
>
> Tom - Houston
> 76 Birchaven
 
Patrick;
I have an Caspro-GMC catalog which lists a six speed automatic transmission
with power drive, shift kit, oil pan, electronic control, & modified for GMC
(exchange) $3450.00. I e-mailed them for more specifics today, do you or
anyone else know more about this item.. Seems to me the true solution if my
transmission ever really fails. Six speeds, would really reduce the strain
in many areas.
jrbiava
- -----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Flowers
To: gmcmotorhome
Date: Saturday, October 31, 1998 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: GMC: Engine removal

>
>Patrick
>--
>Patrick Flowers
>Mailto:patri63
>
>The GMC Motorhome Page
>http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
>
 
Isn't that the regular transmission with the allison 2 speed torque
converter. Danny dunns price is $1550.

>Patrick;
>I have an Caspro-GMC catalog which lists a six speed automatic transmission
>with power drive, shift kit, oil pan, electronic control, & modified for GMC
>(exchange) $3450.00. I e-mailed them for more specifics today, do you or
>anyone else know more about this item.. Seems to me the true solution if my
>transmission ever really fails. Six speeds, would really reduce the strain
>in many areas.
>jrbiava
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Patrick Flowers
>To: gmcmotorhome
>Date: Saturday, October 31, 1998 8:15 PM
>Subject: Re: GMC: Engine removal
>
>
>>
>>Patrick
>>--
>>Patrick Flowers
>>Mailto:patri63
>>
>>The GMC Motorhome Page
>>http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach
 
If this tranny is truely a good 6 speed, for and RV, not too much $. If its
the two speed torque converter, with rebuilt 425 tranny then $1500 is high
but probably worth it, with a 425 @ $2000..
Past stories of 425 rebuilds costing $1200 to $2000 and not getting it right
the first time are what cost too much.
With six gears working instead of 3, reduced strain on an engine which will
cost something like $3k-10k to rebuild/replace is what the point is.
Consider the power range of six speeds to three speeds, especially in towing
situations. Reduced shifting rpms to axles and so on.
JrBiava

- -----Original Message-----
From: HLBF
To: gmcmotorhome
Date: Sunday, November 01, 1998 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: GMC: Engine removal

>$3,450 seems mighty stout to me for a tranny.
>Lanier
>"73 ??
>Jxn. ,MS