Engine Fire Extinguishers

B

byron maxwell

New member
Aug 15, 1999
20
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Try Justin Hill at: chill113 He devised a co2 system not much
unlike that used in restaurant kitchens. He is working to get it on the
Classics website, but not yet. He will, no doubt, be glad to share his
knowledge etc. with you. It looks to me like a good post-haylon fix.
byron maxwell/chaparral
 
hmmm, I hear ya, Byron!

Justin's articles are posted at:
http://www.gmcclassics.com/tech/technical.html

Sometimes I just need a little 'kick start". :-)

bdub

>Try Justin Hill at: chill113 He devised a co2 system not much
>unlike that used in restaurant kitchens. He is working to get it on the
>Classics website, but not yet. He will, no doubt, be glad to share his
>knowledge etc. with you. It looks to me like a good post-haylon fix.
>byron maxwell/chaparral
 
> Hi Emery!
> I looked into sprinkler heads however found out most are rated for too low of
> temperature.(130-150) I had asked the gizmo and gadget guys to try and
> monitor the engine compartment to find out what temps are involved but never
> heard anything.

Just in case you might mean me :-)

I still don't have actual air temps but the temp on the headbolts (second
from rear) run around 180-200 degree range, i.e. engine temps, or close to.

Been trying to get additional sensors, but no luck yet as the AV10 guys went
into restructure mode ;-)

I would expect air temps to be somewhat less, but....

Heinz
 
> I would thing that something over 300 deg. F. would be about
>right.
>
\

Normal sprinkler heads are available up to 360 degrees F.

What we use in areas that are subject to possible flash fires
are infared detectors. and sensors to activate alarms and/or
suppression sprays. either water, Halon or CO2.

IMHO:
For the engine compartment of the GMC, I would use a temp sensor
and alarm circuit, with a manual CO2 dump. IF you have all the money
and resources, go for the fire suppresion systems used in marine
applications.

 
Gentlemen, a few years back at one of the international rallies, I bought a
fire extinguisher for the engine compartment that is automatically discharged
when the air temp reaches 200 degrees f. It also has a warning light that lights
when the extinguisher is activated. The name on it is"Hawk Fire System" mod-A10.
It is a one pound liquid gas type extinguisher. Made by Hawk International Inc.
10421 Burnham Dr. NW #3 Gig Harbor, Wa 98335. 206 851 3444. I can't remember who
I bought it from but it was one of the venders at the rally.
Don't know if it is still abvailable or not, but that is the information that I
have. Supposed to discharge 50 cubic feet of extinguishing agent. Theoretically
will extinguish an engine fire long enough to stop the coach and open the hatch.
Hope I never have to find out if it is effective
Pat 77 Birch

>
>
> Justin's articles are posted at:
> http://www.gmcclassics.com/tech/technical.html
>
> Sometimes I just need a little 'kick start". :-)
>
> bdub >>
>
> Justin - have you given any thought to having an automatic system using a
> temperature sensitive link that would melt and somehow release the lever on
> the extinguisher? There are times where someone could have a fire and not
> realize it until it is too late. Perhaps the pressure could also be to the
> heads at all times and one could use heads that opens with high temperature
> similar to a building head.
>
> Anyone else have info on this?
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Santa Fe, NM
 
Pat and all,
The following is really a bad move.

"Theoretically will extinguish an engine fire long enough to stop the coach
and open the hatch."

DON'T EVEN THINK OF OPENING THAT HATCH IF YOU SUSPECT A FIRE.

Get it stopped, and get out first. And, grab the extinguisher that SHOULD
be next to the door on the way out. Fight it from outside, if you have a
fire.

GET OUT FIRST, then do what you have to do from outside. One breath of that
heated air/smoke and it's over. Let the victim be the coach, not you.

Sorry for the preachin, but unfortunately, I personally know the results of
a close one who evidently thought he could put it out himself. He couldn't.
He is no longer on this earth. Sad loss, for nothing.

Roger
 
Justin,
I would be interested in the parts list. I looked at the pictures and
that a slick installation. Basic and effective.

J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
77 Eleganza II
Michigan

>
> Emory, I failed to mention that I do have a parts list of everything we used
> to install my system. I'll make it available to anyone who is interested.
> Justin
 
They are no longer in business.

J.R. Wright

>
> Gentlemen, a few years back at one of the international rallies, I bought a
> fire extinguisher for the engine compartment that is automatically discharged
> when the air temp reaches 200 degrees f. It also has a warning light that lights
> when the extinguisher is activated. The name on it is"Hawk Fire System" mod-A10.
> It is a one pound liquid gas type extinguisher. Made by Hawk International Inc.
> 10421 Burnham Dr. NW #3 Gig Harbor, Wa 98335. 206 851 3444. I can't remember who
> I bought it from but it was one of the venders at the rally.
> Don't know if it is still abvailable or not, but that is the information that I
> have. Supposed to discharge 50 cubic feet of extinguishing agent. Theoretically
> will extinguish an engine fire long enough to stop the coach and open the hatch.
> Hope I never have to find out if it is effective
> Pat 77 Birch

>

> >
> > >
> > Justin's articles are posted at:
> > http://www.gmcclassics.com/tech/technical.html
> >
> > Sometimes I just need a little 'kick start". :-)
> >
> > bdub >>
> >
> > Justin - have you given any thought to having an automatic system using a
> > temperature sensitive link that would melt and somehow release the lever on
> > the extinguisher? There are times where someone could have a fire and not
> > realize it until it is too late. Perhaps the pressure could also be to the
> > heads at all times and one could use heads that opens with high temperature
> > similar to a building head.
> >
> > Anyone else have info on this?
> >
> > Emery Stora
> > 77 Kingsley
> > Santa Fe, NM
 
Emery
most a/c have a warning lite, temp sensor and manual extinguisher
release.....extinguisher bottle can be remote and fed through stainless
lines....the line could run around the perimeter of the top hatch opening,
with drilled holes at the proper area's.....just my .02
jim white
78 EII

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-gmcmotorhome
> [mailto:owner-gmcmotorhome]On Behalf Of
> EMERYSTORA
> Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 5:21 PM
> To: gmcmotorhome
> Subject: Re: GMC: Engine Fire Extinguishers
>
>
>

>
> I looked into sprinkler heads however found out most are rated
> for too low of
> temperature.(130-150) I had asked the gizmo and gadget guys to try and
> monitor the engine compartment to find out what temps are
> involved but never
> heard anything.
> Scott >>
>
> They use automatic ones in boats and in airplanes. Any of you GMCnetters
> into boats or aircraft and might have a source for leads on this?
> I haven't
> done a web search yet but will soon. i'm sure that someone makes
> just what
> we might need. I would thing that something over 300 deg. F.
> would be about
> right.
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Santa Fe, NM
>
 
Ooooopps! !

I just realized I forgot to include the parts list in the
presentation. Sorry about that. It's included now at:
http://www.gmcclassics.com/tech/fire-ext/fire-ext7.htm

Ya'll don't let me forget these things! :-)

bdub

>Justin,
>I would be interested in the parts list. I looked at the pictures and
>that a slick installation. Basic and effective.
>
>J.R. Wright
>GMC GreatLaker
>77 Eleganza II
>Michigan
>

> >
> > Emory, I failed to mention that I do have a parts list of everything we
> used
> > to install my system. I'll make it available to anyone who is interested.
> > Justin
 
>
> I looked into sprinkler heads however found out most are
> rated for too low of temperature.(130-150)

Scott, sprinkler heads are available up to 550 degF. However, IMO,
sprinkler heads are not the way to go here. Any decent fire suppression
installation company can supply systems with fusible link release. You
could test for the correct temperature, by rigging a test cable with a
spring for tension(you could even get fancy and connect a switch to tell you
if it "trips"). Drive around in various conditions - I'd imagine
stop-and-go city driving and full throttle hill pulls would produce the
highest under-hood temps. Or you could just buy one of those Radio Shack
indoor-outdoor thermometers that Arch(iirc) recommended for checking
computer CPU temps. However, I would think a 212degF link would work just
fine - much higher and it would delay activation too long.

Some time last year, I discussed this subject with one of our Loss
Prevention Engineers. In his opinion, the best suppressant would be a BC
dry chemical. Gas suppressants(CO2 and Halon) are subject to dispersal -
they work well in a marine environment because the engine compartment is
enclosed. While dry chem's are messy, they will stick to a wet surface and
reduce the possibility of reignition. Fusible links with a manual inside
release would be the preferred way to actuate the system. They're dead
simple and don't require electricity to operate. IR detectors would be
subject to falsing due to engine heat and UV detectors might false due to
ignition wire leakage. Both IR and UV detectors require electricity to
operate and a monitoring system to insure reliability, which is unnecessary
complexity here.

If there's a lot of interest in this, I can get back with that engineer(he's
in the cubicle next to me, so it's not a long trip) and possibly get an
engineer from Ansul(the leading manufacturer of these systems) involved to
spec out a system. It would probably take a month or so to work thru, but
in the end, we'd have a spec'd system that you could go to any good fire
suppression system company to have installed.

Patrick
 
Emery,

I agree that the engine surface temps will get way above 212degF, but the
ambient air temp won't. Just think, would a cup of water suspended above
the engine boil? I doubt it.

The concern is the abient air temp., not the engine surface temp. as the
fusible links would be suspend from a cable above the engine.

Patrick

>
> In a message dated 1/19/00 6:57:59 AM,
> Patrick.Flowers

>
>
> fine - much higher and it would delay activation too long.
>
> >>
>
> Patrick - It would be interesting if someone has any data on
> the temperatures
> that can exist in the engine box. I would guess that it gets
> a lot higher
> than 212 deg. on a hot day. The water temperature in the
> block is often up
> to as much as 250 deg. and the exhaust manifolds and pipes
> are way hotter.
> The intake manifold on mine has charred paint where the
> crossover by the carb
> mount is.
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Santa Fe, NM
>
 
Yep - volume does make a difference. IIRC, standard temps are 135, 165,
212, 286, 360, 450 and 550 degF. The most common heads are 135 and 165,
which are used in office and light manufacturing occupancies.

Patrick

>
> In a message dated 1/19/2000 8:59:39 AM Eastern Standard Time,

>
> > Scott, sprinkler heads are available up to 550 degF
>
> Hi Patrick!
> Maybe I could have said I knew they were available if I would
> have remembered
> :).
> Your mention of them tweked some brain cell activity. When
> talking to the
> owner of a sprinkler co he did mention I could special order
> these 500 degree
> heads but at a cost considerably more than "normal"
> commercial bldgs. Not
> much call for them to get the price down IIRC.
>
> Scott HREF="http://members.aol.com/adohen/advice/index.htm">NEHODA'S
> BACK YARD
>
 
Don't forget. After driving all day in the hot sun and then stopping, the
ambient air temp. in the compartment will climb well above 225 - 275. All
the latent heat in the engine will still be a factor when stopped, without
the fan running. Darren

> Emery,
>
> I agree that the engine surface temps will get way above 212degF, but the
> ambient air temp won't. Just think, would a cup of water suspended above
> the engine boil? I doubt it.
>
> The concern is the abient air temp., not the engine surface temp. as the
> fusible links would be suspend from a cable above the engine.
>
> Patrick
>

> >
> > In a message dated 1/19/00 6:57:59 AM,
> > Patrick.Flowers

> >
> > >
> > fine - much higher and it would delay activation too long.
> >
> > >>
> >
> > Patrick - It would be interesting if someone has any data on
> > the temperatures
> > that can exist in the engine box. I would guess that it gets
> > a lot higher
> > than 212 deg. on a hot day. The water temperature in the
> > block is often up
> > to as much as 250 deg. and the exhaust manifolds and pipes
> > are way hotter.
> > The intake manifold on mine has charred paint where the
> > crossover by the carb
> > mount is.
> >
> > Emery Stora
> > 77 Kingsley
> > Santa Fe, NM
> >

- --

Darren Paget
76 Experimental
Another Fab Day
http://www.TZEplus.com
 
Darren,

Where did you come up with those numbers?

Patrick

>
> Don't forget. After driving all day in the hot sun and then
> stopping, the
> ambient air temp. in the compartment will climb well above
> 225 - 275. All
> the latent heat in the engine will still be a factor when
> stopped, without
> the fan running. Darren
 
Maybe I fired that off a little too quick. I'm not trying to be
argumentative, but this whole discussion started with wondering how to
determine what the engine compartment ambient temp would be. If you have
some data, I'd love to see it. But, if you're only guessing...

Patrick

>
> Darren,
>
> Where did you come up with those numbers?
>
> Patrick
>

> >
> > Don't forget. After driving all day in the hot sun and then
> > stopping, the
> > ambient air temp. in the compartment will climb well above
> > 225 - 275. All
> > the latent heat in the engine will still be a factor when
> > stopped, without
> > the fan running. Darren
>
 
A SWAG Patrick. Consider the oil temp at 220 the water temp at 200 the
exhaust manifold temp at over 400. When you stop after a hot drive and
turn off the motor the fan no longer brings in cool air and all that
heat just sits in the compartment. That's the basis I am using any
way. Darren

> Darren,
>
> Where did you come up with those numbers?
>
> Patrick
>

> >
> > Don't forget. After driving all day in the hot sun and then
> > stopping, the
> > ambient air temp. in the compartment will climb well above
> > 225 - 275. All
> > the latent heat in the engine will still be a factor when
> > stopped, without
> > the fan running. Darren

- --

Darren Paget
76 Experimental
Another Fab Day
http://www.TZEplus.com
 
Nope - need data. How about it Heinz? You have the most heavily
instrumented coach in GMCdom. Surely there's room for one more sensor.

Patrick

>
> A SWAG Patrick.
>

>
> > Darren,
> >
> > Where did you come up with those numbers?
> >
> > Patrick
 
Been trying to get one, 2 or three actually.
WesTach didn't return call(s) and the AV10 guys don't answer either. I hope
they're just going through a reshuffling instead of out-of-business (AV10).
It's a nice unit.

Of course I missed the golden opportunity to get more wires in so it'll be
more skin off the arms again next time.

I'll try WesTach again.

I have room for 5 sensors of the Cyl Head temp variety (thermocouple), i.e.
8 cylinders and I'm using 3.

Work has been interfeering much too much :-)

Heinz

> Nope - need data. How about it Heinz? You have the most heavily
> instrumented coach in GMCdom. Surely there's room for one more sensor.
>
> Patrick
>

>>
>> A SWAG Patrick.
>>

>>
>>> Darren,
>>>
>>> Where did you come up with those numbers?
>>>
>>> Patrick
>
>
 
>
> Been trying to get one, 2 or three actually.
> WesTach didn't return call(s) and the AV10 guys don't answer
> either. I hope
> they're just going through a reshuffling instead of
> out-of-business (AV10).
> It's a nice unit.
>
> Of course I missed the golden opportunity to get more wires
> in so it'll be
> more skin off the arms again next time.
>
> I'll try WesTach again.
>
> I have room for 5 sensors of the Cyl Head temp variety
> (thermocouple), i.e.
> 8 cylinders and I'm using 3.

Thanks! Keep us posted.

> Work has been interfeering much too much :-)

I know what you mean.
Patrick
 
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