End play in rear control arms

C

corey

New member
Jan 7, 2010
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While I wait on the GMCMI thumb drive / manuals to show up, I had a quick technical question so that I can at least know what direction I'm going to
have to go with this part of the coach. I BELIEVE the max end play for the intermediate and rear control arms is 1/8" based on what I've seen on this
forum. I'm getting around 3/8 of an inch. Here is a short video: https://youtu.be/HuFoGHv9z_A

My questions for the group:

1) Is there any chance I can correct this with end hat adjustment (if they are not seized in place)
2) Will a Tru Track or similar system be a suitable remedy OR
3) With this much play is bogey pin replacement imminent.

Obviously looking to avoid option #3 as this is involved and (I think) a bit more money.

--
Corey P

Hilliard, OH

1974 Glacier 26'

ION Wheels
 
Thrust, or end play is not your only problem. Adjustment will take care of
that, within reason. The real issue is that if you have that much end play,
there is a very strong likelihood that your pins and bushings are
excessively worn also.
That is a bird of a different color. Not adjustable. Remove and
replace is your only good option. $$$$$$ is involved. Bogies need to be
removed from the coach, as the pins are installed from the back side. Not a
simple fix. But, high quality replacement parts are available. The R & R of
the bushings is not easy. There are 4 in each bogie, and they are in a
blind hole, so they cannot be pressed out from the back side. Many tricks
to get them out. But, all are eating into that allotted time that costs
shop labor rates. Will Tru-traks work in lieu of bushings and pins? Not on
my coach. But, do you feel lucky? When you get it all repaired with new
pins and bushings, then tru-traks in not a bad idea to keep it from
happening again. Others may have a different perspective on this.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 10:17 AM Corey via Gmclist
wrote:

> While I wait on the GMCMI thumb drive / manuals to show up, I had a quick
> technical question so that I can at least know what direction I'm going to
> have to go with this part of the coach. I BELIEVE the max end play for the
> intermediate and rear control arms is 1/8" based on what I've seen on this
> forum. I'm getting around 3/8 of an inch. Here is a short video:
> https://youtu.be/HuFoGHv9z_A
>
> My questions for the group:
>
> 1) Is there any chance I can correct this with end hat adjustment (if they
> are not seized in place)
> 2) Will a Tru Track or similar system be a suitable remedy OR
> 3) With this much play is bogey pin replacement imminent.
>
> Obviously looking to avoid option #3 as this is involved and (I think) a
> bit more money.
>
>
>
> --
> Corey P
>
> Hilliard, OH
>
> 1974 Glacier 26'
>
> ION Wheels
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Looking at your vidio, I can see that your pin/bushings are worn out.
One can tighten the nut to to 40 ft/lbs, then back off and go 20 ft/lbs to
adjust the side play, but you'll still need to replace the pin and bushing.
True track will not solve the problem, just band aide for a short time.

On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 11:28 AM James Hupy via Gmclist <

> Thrust, or end play is not your only problem. Adjustment will take care of
> that, within reason. The real issue is that if you have that much end play,
> there is a very strong likelihood that your pins and bushings are
> excessively worn also.
> That is a bird of a different color. Not adjustable. Remove and
> replace is your only good option. $$$$$$ is involved. Bogies need to be
> removed from the coach, as the pins are installed from the back side. Not a
> simple fix. But, high quality replacement parts are available. The R & R of
> the bushings is not easy. There are 4 in each bogie, and they are in a
> blind hole, so they cannot be pressed out from the back side. Many tricks
> to get them out. But, all are eating into that allotted time that costs
> shop labor rates. Will Tru-traks work in lieu of bushings and pins? Not on
> my coach. But, do you feel lucky? When you get it all repaired with new
> pins and bushings, then tru-traks in not a bad idea to keep it from
> happening again. Others may have a different perspective on this.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>
> On Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 10:17 AM Corey via Gmclist

>
> > While I wait on the GMCMI thumb drive / manuals to show up, I had a quick
> > technical question so that I can at least know what direction I'm going
> to
> > have to go with this part of the coach. I BELIEVE the max end play for
> the
> > intermediate and rear control arms is 1/8" based on what I've seen on
> this
> > forum. I'm getting around 3/8 of an inch. Here is a short video:
> > https://youtu.be/HuFoGHv9z_A
> >
> > My questions for the group:
> >
> > 1) Is there any chance I can correct this with end hat adjustment (if
> they
> > are not seized in place)
> > 2) Will a Tru Track or similar system be a suitable remedy OR
> > 3) With this much play is bogey pin replacement imminent.
> >
> > Obviously looking to avoid option #3 as this is involved and (I think) a
> > bit more money.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Corey P
> >
> > Hilliard, OH
> >
> > 1974 Glacier 26'
> >
> > ION Wheels
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
 
From what I've seen so far, the bogie pin replacement project is tons of fun :lol: . I've seen the write up on this job, and understand it will
require help from a machine shop. Any other tips or tricks out there?
--
Corey P

Hilliard, OH

1974 Glacier 26'

ION Wheels
 
Forget machine shop, we can rent you the reamer and good instrucuu tru oo
and heat treated pins

On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 6:16 PM Corey via Gmclist
wrote:

> From what I've seen so far, the bogie pin replacement project is tons of
> fun :lol: . I've seen the write up on this job, and understand it will
> require help from a machine shop. Any other tips or tricks out there?
> --
> Corey P
>
> Hilliard, OH
>
> 1974 Glacier 26'
>
> ION Wheels
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
 
I may take you up on that Jim. I will call later in the week... unless you're open tomorrow?
--
Corey P

Hilliard, OH

1974 Glacier 26'

ION Wheels
 
I did the reamer, pins ,and bushings from Jim and yes it was a ton of work
but it does make the bogey unit like new. You might find that your bushings
are not terrible but the pins are badly worn. If you can get the hats to
move in the bogey box and your new pins do not have a lot of free play when
test fitted you might be able to just run the new pins on the existing
bushings. The bronze bushings in mine had wear but most of the wear was on
the pins. I had already purchased the bushings so I removed the old and
installed the new. The bushing removal and re installation is the worst
part of the job imho.

Sully
Bellevue wa

On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 9:11 PM Corey via Gmclist
wrote:

> I may take you up on that Jim. I will call later in the week... unless
> you're open tomorrow?
> --
> Corey P
>
> Hilliard, OH
>
> 1974 Glacier 26'
>
> ION Wheels
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
All old ford solid I beam front axle folks know all bout using them reamers and fitting the pin stuff.

jofarr, Soddy daisy tn
26 footers, 74, 76 & 78

----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Kanomata via Gmclist
Reply-To:
To:
Cc: Jim Kanomata
Sent: 12/23/2019 10:41:04 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] End play in rear control arms
________________________________________________________________________________

Forget machine shop, we can rent you the reamer and good instrucuu tru oo
and heat treated pins

On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 6:16 PM Corey via Gmclist
wrote:

> From what I've seen so far, the bogie pin replacement project is tons of
> fun :lol: . I've seen the write up on this job, and understand it will
> require help from a machine shop. Any other tips or tricks out there?
> --
> Corey P
>
> Hilliard, OH
>
> 1974 Glacier 26'
>
> ION Wheels
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Yep, it is cut a tiny bit, try the pin, repeat until it will go together,
tightly. Grease often. It will last longer than you are likely to need it.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Wed, Dec 25, 2019, 5:47 PM Jesse Farr via Gmclist <

> All old ford solid I beam front axle folks know all bout using them
> reamers and fitting the pin stuff.
>
> jofarr, Soddy daisy tn
> 26 footers, 74, 76 & 78
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jim Kanomata via Gmclist
> Reply-To:
> To:
> Cc: Jim Kanomata
> Sent: 12/23/2019 10:41:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] End play in rear control arms
>
> ________________________________________________________________________________
>
> Forget machine shop, we can rent you the reamer and good instrucuu tru oo
> and heat treated pins
>
> On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 6:16 PM Corey via Gmclist >

>
> > From what I've seen so far, the bogie pin replacement project is tons of
> > fun :lol: . I've seen the write up on this job, and understand it will
> > require help from a machine shop. Any other tips or tricks out there?
> > --
> > Corey P
> >
> > Hilliard, OH
> >
> > 1974 Glacier 26'
> >
> > ION Wheels
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
> jimk
> http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
> 1-800-752-7502
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Our reamer is one the guides on the other hole so it automaticity line up
straight.
If you use a short one your fooling yourself.

On Wed, Dec 25, 2019 at 6:21 PM James Hupy via Gmclist <

> Yep, it is cut a tiny bit, try the pin, repeat until it will go together,
> tightly. Grease often. It will last longer than you are likely to need it.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>
> On Wed, Dec 25, 2019, 5:47 PM Jesse Farr via Gmclist <

>
> > All old ford solid I beam front axle folks know all bout using them
> > reamers and fitting the pin stuff.
> >
> > jofarr, Soddy daisy tn
> > 26 footers, 74, 76 & 78
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Jim Kanomata via Gmclist
> > Reply-To:
> > To:
> > Cc: Jim Kanomata
> > Sent: 12/23/2019 10:41:04 PM
> > Subject: Re: [GMCnet] End play in rear control arms
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Forget machine shop, we can rent you the reamer and good instrucuu tru oo
> > and heat treated pins
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 6:16 PM Corey via Gmclist <
> gmclist
> > >

> >
> > > From what I've seen so far, the bogie pin replacement project is tons
> of
> > > fun :lol: . I've seen the write up on this job, and understand it will
> > > require help from a machine shop. Any other tips or tricks out there?
> > > --
> > > Corey P
> > >
> > > Hilliard, OH
> > >
> > > 1974 Glacier 26'
> > >
> > > ION Wheels
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > >
> > --
> > Jim Kanomata
> > Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
> > jimk
> > http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
> > 1-800-752-7502
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
 
No argument there.

jofarr, Soddy daisy tn

----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Kanomata via Gmclist
Reply-To:
To:
Cc: Jim Kanomata
Sent: 12/25/2019 11:56:42 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] End play in rear control arms
________________________________________________________________________________

Our reamer is one the guides on the other hole so it automaticity line up
straight.
If you use a short one your fooling yourself.

On Wed, Dec 25, 2019 at 6:21 PM James Hupy via Gmclist <

> Yep, it is cut a tiny bit, try the pin, repeat until it will go together,
> tightly. Grease often. It will last longer than you are likely to need it.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>
> On Wed, Dec 25, 2019, 5:47 PM Jesse Farr via Gmclist <

>
> > All old ford solid I beam front axle folks know all bout using them
> > reamers and fitting the pin stuff.
> >
> > jofarr, Soddy daisy tn
> > 26 footers, 74, 76 & 78
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Jim Kanomata via Gmclist
> > Reply-To:
> > To:
> > Cc: Jim Kanomata
> > Sent: 12/23/2019 10:41:04 PM
> > Subject: Re: [GMCnet] End play in rear control arms
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Forget machine shop, we can rent you the reamer and good instrucuu tru oo
> > and heat treated pins
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 6:16 PM Corey via Gmclist <
> gmclist
> > >

> >
> > > From what I've seen so far, the bogie pin replacement project is tons
> of
> > > fun :lol: . I've seen the write up on this job, and understand it will
> > > require help from a machine shop. Any other tips or tricks out there?
> > > --
> > > Corey P
> > >
> > > Hilliard, OH
> > >
> > > 1974 Glacier 26'
> > >
> > > ION Wheels
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > >
> > --
> > Jim Kanomata
> > Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
> > jimk
> > http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
> > 1-800-752-7502
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
If I understand correctly the grease hole is in the dead space between inner and outer bushings. Much like air in a balloon pushed in all directions,
so will the grease. I think this is the original GM type design. The problem was when neglected for years the old grease hardened. If you grease
before each trip I suspect you will see old grease bleeding from inner and outers.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
 
Corey,

IIRC, you're correct about the 1/8" movement specification, but I can find
no reference to it in the absurdly sketchy information and instructions in
the "Rear Suspension" section of manual X7525. That said, I "rebuilt" my
XBirchaven's rear suspension in 1998, using that manual, awfully built
parts, poor guidance, and my own ignorance. As a result, my rear
suspension, basically untouched aside from lubrication since then, is
undoubtedly in POOR condition after ~120,000 miles.

However, I have done a couple of things, not affecting the important
suspension arm bushings, that have enabled me to continue ignoring those
fundamentals: Most importantly, I installed a used set of "true tracks"
many years ago. Those simple frame-mounted tracks to retain control
arm-mounted cam follower bearings continue to constrain the ends of the
control arms to only vertical motion -- preventing the "end play"
illustrated in your video. Those are the only salvation for my poor rear
suspension condition. The second "upgrade" was installation of "Manny
Brakes", including, importantly, his variation of the "true tracks" (I was
able to retain the original frame-mounted tracks). Those "true tracks" are
the only element of the Manny Brakes to affect the alignment of the
suspension, but I would NOT have installed any braking improvement that
eliminated them.

So, I think you're in about the same position I was when I installed True
Tracks, but probably better if your control arm bushings are original.
True Tracks should enable you to set and maintain accurate toe-in for years
to come.

JMHO,

Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, Troy-Bilt APU, etc., etc., etc.
www.gmcwipersetc.com

On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 8:41 PM John R. Lebetski via Gmclist <

> If I understand correctly the grease hole is in the dead space between
> inner and outer bushings. Much like air in a balloon pushed in all
> directions,
> so will the grease. I think this is the original GM type design. The
> problem was when neglected for years the old grease hardened. If you grease
> before each trip I suspect you will see old grease bleeding from inner
> and outers.
> --
> John Lebetski
> Woodstock, IL
> 77 Eleganza II
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
I would hope that you would get what you paid for. Send them back and expect a refund for you shipping costs.
--
HTH.........
Glenn
76 Glensbroke
 
What I saw on the video was not end play, but a worn bushing.
If it was an end play, the arm would be sliding in and out at the pin.

On Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 1:53 PM Glenn Gregory via Gmclist <

> I would hope that you would get what you paid for. Send them back and
> expect a refund for you shipping costs.
> --
> HTH.........
> Glenn
> 76 Glensbroke
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
 
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