Electro level - '77 Palm beach

boybach

boybach

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2020
1,031
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My coach is fitted with OEM style bags, new as of about 2010 or so and they look and work good, hold pressure etc etc.

There are schraeder valves and shut-offs fitted at the bags, a bit ass-backwards IMO as the valve is on the "wrong" side of the shut-off, i.e. the
pressure can't be checked or adjusted via the schraeder etc unless the cock is opened. Anyway, it sorta works after a fashion. I intend to remedy the
positioning when I get a round tuit.

Meanwhile, the auto level and cab controls are not being used (due to a leak somewhere I guess - not checked where or if as yet) so the coach has been
driven up til now with both bags inflated to around 70psi (IIRC) and the taps closed.

I understand that with my system, the coach can compensate for load variations side to side if it's set at auto when driving - that sure sounds
preferable to a guesstimate inflation via a schraeder as it is now.

I'm wondering if this setup could contribute to my steering/handling issues?

Next job will be the air system so just looking for any tips, gotchas or other info regarding the 77 Electrolevel system.

Thanks guys

Larry

--
Larry - Victoria BC -

1977 Palm Beach VIN TZE167V101295 - 40,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. New wiper blades, New SS exhaust system,
operational Onan genset
 
This is one of those systems that has multiple angles, and reading the manual (at bdubs site if you are new) to be sure you know what your goals are
make the diagnosis more useful.

Yes, rear affects handling. Most common error is rear set too high. You want the overall angle of coach to look nose high when at highway speeds. Low
speeds and around town, high does not affect handling and reduces rear drag on entrances and other obstacles.

I mentioned reading the manual, because you need to know your target height of rear (I think it's 11 3/4 inches to cut slot in frame or some such) no
matter how you get there - automatic or manual. Once you understand the goal you can make a little cheater stick or dowel to hold at a given point -
often the rear bogie greasers or the top of the wheel wheel to see where you are if you are doing it manually.

After you know what the system is supposed to do, and experiment a few trips with manual pressure adjustment to get to ride height targets, then I
would start isolating parts of the automatic system until you figure if you have solenoid issues, leaks, or level sensor problems.

My two cents...
--
1975 Glenbrook, 1978 Royale rear bath
Raleigh, NC
 
Thanks for that - I found the leak, it's at the height control valve - the red airline tees and one leg goes to the HT control, looks like a plastic
fitting, leaking pretty good. What's involved in changing it over to a brass fitting?

Larry
--
Larry - Victoria BC -

1977 Palm Beach VIN TZE167V101295 - 40,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. New wiper blades, New SS exhaust system,
operational Onan genset
 
> Thanks for that - I found the leak, it's at the height control valve - the red airline tees and one leg goes to the HT control, looks like a
> plastic fitting, leaking pretty good. What's involved in changing it over to a brass fitting?
>
> Larry

Larry,

Those fitting are am major league PITA to remove, but the leak even before they are actually cracked. Mine have all been gone a real long time.

As I recall (remember that this my memory here), they had a metal ring that gets crimped onto the fitting. That ring is not very heavy. I filed or
ground the first few through, then resorted to cutting them with my big heavy diagonals. I doubt that you have wire cutters like that, but they were
not that hard to file through (iirc), but it did take more time than I liked. Some came apart with the OE plastic too necked down for a compression
fitting to work. I had to cut them back a little. One of them was kind of tense when fitting the new T, but it worked.

You can buy and use lessor fittings, but if you don't want to mess with it again, find a truck parts store and buy a 1/4 DOT fitting. This will have
a center sleeve poking out that is why the compression fitting stays working.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
You can get and download the Electro Level Manual here:

http://www.bdub.net/manuals/Electro-Level.pdf

J.R. Wright
GMC Great Laker MHC
GMCGL Tech Editor
GMC Eastern States Charter Member
GMCMI
78 GMC Buskirk 29.5’ Stretch
75 GMC Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan

>

>> Thanks for that - I found the leak, it's at the height control valve - the red airline tees and one leg goes to the HT control, looks like a
>> plastic fitting, leaking pretty good. What's involved in changing it over to a brass fitting?
>>
>> Larry
>
>
> Larry,
>
> Those fitting are am major league PITA to remove, but the leak even before they are actually cracked. Mine have all been gone a real long time.
>
> As I recall (remember that this my memory here), they had a metal ring that gets crimped onto the fitting. That ring is not very heavy. I filed or
> ground the first few through, then resorted to cutting them with my big heavy diagonals. I doubt that you have wire cutters like that, but they were
> not that hard to file through (iirc), but it did take more time than I liked. Some came apart with the OE plastic too necked down for a compression
> fitting to work. I had to cut them back a little. One of them was kind of tense when fitting the new T, but it worked.
>
> You can buy and use lessor fittings, but if you don't want to mess with it again, find a truck parts store and buy a 1/4 DOT fitting. This will have
> a center sleeve poking out that is why the compression fitting stays working.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
 
When I first got my coach about 20 years I found several plastic fittings leaking. I finally just replaced them all. Fittings are / were available
from good, usually independent, auto parts stores. At the time they were around $1.50 USD for straight or angle ones. They were also available from
NAPA for double the price.

Replacing them all fixed all of my air suspension problems. I did replace the leveling valves about 10 years later. My coach stays aired parked up
all winter. I have never had much use for schrader valves installed in line because I have seen two where the extra weigh if the valve caused the
nipple to break off. I do carry two screw in schrader valves and if I ever need one in an emergency I can simply screw one into the bag. They are
available from Ace Hardware for around $3.00 each.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
Well I found the plastic fitting impossible to seal up so after much buggering around, I cut the lines.

Tomorrow I'll be early at Coast Industrial hoses and fittings where I will purchase a new [brass] T piece and associated bits and a small length of
hopefully red air hose.

I might get two sets and get rid of the passenger side plastic too.

I'll report back after the electrolevel system is buttoned up.

Larry
--
Larry - Victoria BC -

1977 Palm Beach VIN TZE167V101295 - 40,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. New wiper blades, New SS exhaust system,
operational Onan genset
 
I have a 77 Kingsley which should be the same setup as your Palm Beach.
I think 70 # on you bags is low. I have found to be level it should be more like 90. I have a gauge fir both sides on my dash.
If your rear is a bit low that could cause some handling problems.

Emery Stora

>
> Thanks for that - I found the leak, it's at the height control valve - the red airline tees and one leg goes to the HT control, looks like a plastic
> fitting, leaking pretty good. What's involved in changing it over to a brass fitting?
>
> Larry
> --
> Larry - Victoria BC -
>
> 1977 Palm Beach VIN TZE167V101295 - 40,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. New wiper blades, New SS exhaust system,
> operational Onan genset
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
 
> I have a 77 Kingsley which should be the same setup as your Palm Beach.
> I think 70 # on you bags is low. I have found to be level it should be more like 90. I have a gauge fir both sides on my dash.
> If your rear is a bit low that could cause some handling problems.
>
> Emery Stora

Ok I can try airing them up to 90 and see what happens. I guess what I'm not clear about is how the level (height) was designed to be set when the
system was new and operating as designed. In the cab, I think the control panel said to set the switch to "auto" for five minutes going down the
highway then set the switch to "travel".

Other than using a measuring stick, how do determine the correct inflation? Eyeballin' it? 8o

Larry
--
Larry - Victoria BC -

1977 Palm Beach VIN TZE167V101295 - 40,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. New wiper blades, New SS exhaust system,
operational Onan genset
 
Set your rear ride height equal side to side about 1 1/4” lower than the
front when measuring from the horizontal oval hole in the side of the frame
rail to the ground. The holes are just behind the front wheels and just
behind the rearmost rear wheel. Then drive it and see if it handles any
better.

Sully
Bellevue wa

> > I have a 77 Kingsley which should be the same setup as your Palm Beach.
> > I think 70 # on you bags is low. I have found to be level it should be
> more like 90. I have a gauge fir both sides on my dash.
> > If your rear is a bit low that could cause some handling problems.
> >
> > Emery Stora
>
> Ok I can try airing them up to 90 and see what happens. I guess what I'm
> not clear about is how the level (height) was designed to be set when the
> system was new and operating as designed. In the cab, I think the control
> panel said to set the switch to "auto" for five minutes going down the
> highway then set the switch to "travel".
>
> Other than using a measuring stick, how do determine the correct
> inflation? Eyeballin' it? 8o
>
> Larry
> --
> Larry - Victoria BC -
>
> 1977 Palm Beach VIN TZE167V101295 - 40,000 miles, PO said everything
> working but forgot the word NOT. New wiper blades, New SS exhaust system,
> operational Onan genset
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
 
Some folks fit pressure gauges that they can view from the driver's seat, but they're only effective at a certain weight load (coach weight, tanks
full/empty, etc). The real indication of proper ride height is.... wait for it.... the height of the coach above the road. If the front ride height is
not at spec then as Sully mentions, you'd want to set the rear to maintain the difference in the factory heights front to rear. I don't know how
absolute front ride height affects driveablity, but maintaining that difference should create the caster that the factory wanted for the front wheels.

--
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid
November 2015.
 
measuring stick. but once you figure out the frame to ground and have it set on level ground, you can take a stick and measure from greaze zirks to
ground.

the 77 has alot less airlines, it is not a massive undertaking to replace all the airlines and fittings. Then pretty easy to see if you have any
bad soleniods or height valves.

dot airlines 1/4" can be bought off ebay or amazon for reasonable amount.

--
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
 
The absolutely critical dimension for front ride height (Factory
Specifications) should be your starting place. DO NOT LOWER THE COACH FROM
FACTORY SETTINGS. I don't care how "dorky" you think it looks. There is a
very good reason for that spec., and it is "anti-dive". Imagine the level
shop floor as the base of a triangle that starts on the floor below the
oval shaped guide hole in the front of the coach. Then, a 90° corner that
goes vertically through the oval hole in the frame. The other end of the
base stops directly below the oval ride height hole in the rear of the
coach behind the rear-rear tire. The upper line of the triangle starts in
the center of the front hole, and extends towards the rear of the coach and
bisects the oval hole in the rear of the coach, terminating where it
intersects with the base line.
By now, it should become apparent that I have just described a
tri-angle with the tall end forward. This is an "anti-dive wedge". When
severe braking is applied to the front heavy coach, without this wedge, it
will nose dive and unload the rear/rear tire and reduce its braking effect
to the point of flat spotting the tires when the brakes lock up from lack
of traction. Simple, right? Anyway, don't mess with this wedge for the best
performance.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Wed, May 12, 2021, 1:13 PM Bill Van Vlack
wrote:

> Some folks fit pressure gauges that they can view from the driver's seat,
> but they're only effective at a certain weight load (coach weight, tanks
> full/empty, etc). The real indication of proper ride height is.... wait
> for it.... the height of the coach above the road. If the front ride height
> is
> not at spec then as Sully mentions, you'd want to set the rear to maintain
> the difference in the factory heights front to rear. I don't know how
> absolute front ride height affects driveablity, but maintaining that
> difference should create the caster that the factory wanted for the front
> wheels.
>
> --
> Bill Van Vlack
> '76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath,
> Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o
> mid
> November 2015.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
 
Well lads, I got the leak fixed using 1/4" brass fittings, bought two sets, will fit passenger side later.
Turned on the compressor and set the controls to raise. Passenger side went up pretty high, read the bag pressure at 110 when I switched it off.
Driver's side cut out much earlier and couldn't get it to go above 70-72.
I slackened the adjustment nut on the height valve arm and moved the arm to a new position,
I was now able to get the bag up to around 82 before the compressor stopped. I set the passenger side to 82 also then took a test drive. Better but
not perfect, that's for sure.
Picked up a tank of gas while I was out in her and as the gas station was flat I measured the ride Heights.
Quite high at the front, Drivers side front 14-1/4"
Pass 14-1/8"

As I could only access the rear slot on one side of the coach (Onan exhaust blocking on driver's side) I measured the following:
Rear passenger side slot 12-3/8"
Passenger fender Ht. 32-3/8"
Driver's, 33-3/8"

Doesn't sound like things are at spec especially the front, any comments/tips/etc?

Larry

--
Larry - Victoria BC -

1977 Palm Beach VIN TZE167V101295 - 40,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. New wiper blades, New SS exhaust system,
operational Onan genset
 
Larry,

That left rear interference was the first reason for my making up this:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/ride-height-block/p66520-under-frame-ride-height-block.html

I make mine from 4x4 so it will stand up while adjusting to it; 2x4 would
work about as well.

Position it just below the frame oval cutouts.

Ken H.

> My coach is fitted with OEM style bags, new as of about 2010 or so and
> they look and work good, hold pressure etc etc.
>
> There are schraeder valves and shut-offs fitted at the bags, a bit
> ass-backwards IMO as the valve is on the "wrong" side of the shut-off, i.e.
> the
> pressure can't be checked or adjusted via the schraeder etc unless the
> cock is opened. Anyway, it sorta works after a fashion. I intend to remedy
> the
> positioning when I get a round tuit.
>
> Meanwhile, the auto level and cab controls are not being used (due to a
> leak somewhere I guess - not checked where or if as yet) so the coach has
> been
> driven up til now with both bags inflated to around 70psi (IIRC) and the
> taps closed.
>
> I understand that with my system, the coach can compensate for load
> variations side to side if it's set at auto when driving - that sure sounds
> preferable to a guesstimate inflation via a schraeder as it is now.
>
> I'm wondering if this setup could contribute to my steering/handling
> issues?
>
> Next job will be the air system so just looking for any tips, gotchas or
> other info regarding the 77 Electrolevel system.
>
> Thanks guys
>
> Larry
>
> --
> Larry - Victoria BC -
>
> 1977 Palm Beach VIN TZE167V101295 - 40,000 miles, PO said everything
> working but forgot the word NOT. New wiper blades, New SS exhaust system,
> operational Onan genset
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
 
Thanks Ken, I'll make up one of your checkers after I get myself a torsion bar unloader then I should be all set. After it's all set up I'll redo
centering the steering box and if it STILL wanders I'll get the steering box rebuilt.
Definitely gotta get her down from the high seat ..still can't figure out why the hell it's that high in the first place ...all I can think is maybe
when the front end was re & re'd and the new shocks were put in, somehow it got raised up that high?

With my PO anything is possible - after all, we are talking about a guy that installed a curtain rail and drilled right through the roof. 8o

Larry
--
Larry - Victoria BC -

1977 Palm Beach VIN TZE167V101295 - 40,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. New wiper blades, New SS exhaust system,
operational Onan genset
 
Oversized tires?

Sully
Bellevue wa

> Thanks Ken, I'll make up one of your checkers after I get myself a torsion
> bar unloader then I should be all set. After it's all set up I'll redo
> centering the steering box and if it STILL wanders I'll get the steering
> box rebuilt.
> Definitely gotta get her down from the high seat ..still can't figure out
> why the hell it's that high in the first place ...all I can think is maybe
> when the front end was re & re'd and the new shocks were put in, somehow
> it got raised up that high?
>
> With my PO anything is possible - after all, we are talking about a guy
> that installed a curtain rail and drilled right through the roof. 8o
>
> Larry
> --
> Larry - Victoria BC -
>
> 1977 Palm Beach VIN TZE167V101295 - 40,000 miles, PO said everything
> working but forgot the word NOT. New wiper blades, New SS exhaust system,
> operational Onan genset
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
 
> Oversized tires?
>
> Sully
> Bellevue wa

Nope.

Brand new Kumho Crugen 225/75R16 E's all round, incl spare 2 months ago.

Front height probably got set like that by the front end rebuilder. Time to bring it back to earth. Plus it looks weird.

Larry
--
Larry - Victoria BC -

1977 Palm Beach VIN TZE167V101295 - 40,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. New wiper blades, New SS exhaust system,
operational Onan genset
 
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