Electric Vehicles

Do some more shopping. I am installing a roof mount solar system here in North San Diego County that works out to less than $2.00 per KW. My payback is a little over 4 years, assuming the electric rates stay the same. I can assure you that the electric rates we pay WILL continue to rise as it relates to maintenance costs of all of that wire, not considering the increases in the fuel costs.

>
>
> Solar panels work for you if your utility rates are high and you have a
> favorable net-metering contract.
> It is hard to justify solar if you are paying $4,000 a kWDC no net metering
> and your rates are low like less than 10 cents /kWh.
> My best quote so far has been $3,250 /kWDC and my rate is $0.1001 for all
> the time my panels would be active. The one thing in my favor is retail
> net-metering.
> 1 kWDC where I am would generate about 4,000 kWh/ year or $400 a year.
> Even if I paid cash and ignored the time value of money it would take about
> 8 years to break even.
> Am I going to stay in this house that long or even live that long?
>
> On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 10:28 AM Johnny Bridges via Gmclist <

>
> > Seems to me electrolysis using solar panels would be the way for an
> > individual to generate it. Given the right capture setup, you could get
> > oxygen
> > for your welding as well.
> >
> >
> > --johnny
> > --
> > Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> > Braselton, Ga.
> > I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me
> > in hell
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
>
>
> --
>
> *John Phillips*
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Is this a DIY project? What kind of roof do you have? What racking system
are they using? My racking systems seem to cost about $80 per panel.

On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 8:59 AM RICHARD/MARLI SHOOP via Gmclist <

> Do some more shopping. I am installing a roof mount solar system here in
> North San Diego County that works out to less than $2.00 per KW. My payback
> is a little over 4 years, assuming the electric rates stay the same. I can
> assure you that the electric rates we pay WILL continue to rise as it
> relates to maintenance costs of all of that wire, not considering the
> increases in the fuel costs.
>
> > On January 23, 2020 at 12:56 PM John Phillips via Gmclist <

> >
> >
> > Solar panels work for you if your utility rates are high and you have a
> > favorable net-metering contract.
> > It is hard to justify solar if you are paying $4,000 a kWDC no net
> metering
> > and your rates are low like less than 10 cents /kWh.
> > My best quote so far has been $3,250 /kWDC and my rate is $0.1001 for all
> > the time my panels would be active. The one thing in my favor is retail
> > net-metering.
> > 1 kWDC where I am would generate about 4,000 kWh/ year or $400 a year.
> > Even if I paid cash and ignored the time value of money it would take
> about
> > 8 years to break even.
> > Am I going to stay in this house that long or even live that long?
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 10:28 AM Johnny Bridges via Gmclist <

> >
> > > Seems to me electrolysis using solar panels would be the way for an
> > > individual to generate it. Given the right capture setup, you could
> get
> > > oxygen
> > > for your welding as well.
> > >
> > >
> > > --johnny
> > > --
> > > Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> > > Braselton, Ga.
> > > I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to
> me
> > > in hell
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > *John Phillips*
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--

*John Phillips*
 
$2.00 per kilowatt is unbelievable - that would mean I could replace my
entire home 240v 200A service (48 KW) for less than $100.

are you sure of your decimal point? Or is that per Kilowatt per month
for 4 years?

Just asking

Stu

> Do some more shopping. I am installing a roof mount solar system here in North San Diego County that works out to less than $2.00 per KW. My payback is a little over 4 years, assuming the electric rates stay the same. I can assure you that the electric rates we pay WILL continue to rise as it relates to maintenance costs of all of that wire, not considering the increases in the fuel costs.
>

>>
>>
 
I am sure he was using $2.00 per watt but even that is very low for an
"arms-length" pro system. quotes per watt are more common than quotes /kW.

On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 10:52 AM Stu Rasmussen via Gmclist <

>
> $2.00 per kilowatt is unbelievable - that would mean I could replace my
> entire home 240v 200A service (48 KW) for less than $100.
>
> are you sure of your decimal point? Or is that per Kilowatt per month
> for 4 years?
>
> Just asking
>
> Stu
>

> > Do some more shopping. I am installing a roof mount solar system here in
> North San Diego County that works out to less than $2.00 per KW. My payback
> is a little over 4 years, assuming the electric rates stay the same. I can
> assure you that the electric rates we pay WILL continue to rise as it
> relates to maintenance costs of all of that wire, not considering the
> increases in the fuel costs.
> >
> >> On January 23, 2020 at 12:56 PM John Phillips via Gmclist <

> >>
> >>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--

*John Phillips*
 
We've paid 60kEUR for 30kWPeak in 2011 for a professional PV
installation in Germland. But shopped around, and the range was quite
interesting. The most expensive one was 3 times the price...

Go figure.

Setting up a large PV array somewhere in the US deserts with
decentralized hydrogen generation, pipelines to the nearest Interstate,
and all of a sudden hydrogen availability for *all* automotive needs
would be quite achievable.

Unfortunately, the initial investment is larger than by piggy bank is on
a diet :-)
--
Best regards

Peer Oliver Schmidt
PGP KeyID: 0x4196BF22
'76a 26' Eleganza II - Virginia, US
'73 23' Sequoia - Schleswig-Holstein, Germany
 
Not really GMC, or even hydrogen fuel, but our local county commissioners
just approved a proposal for a 9700 acre solar farm, producing 1,115
megawatts! The proposer is a big outfit, so hopefully they really will
complete the $500 million project.

Ken H.

On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 5:46 PM Peer Oliver Schmidt via Gmclist <

> We've paid 60kEUR for 30kWPeak in 2011 for a professional PV
> installation in Germland. But shopped around, and the range was quite
> interesting. The most expensive one was 3 times the price...
>
> Go figure.
>
> Setting up a large PV array somewhere in the US deserts with
> decentralized hydrogen generation, pipelines to the nearest Interstate,
> and all of a sudden hydrogen availability for *all* automotive needs
> would be quite achievable.
>
> Unfortunately, the initial investment is larger than by piggy bank is on
> a diet :-)
> --
> Best regards
>
> Peer Oliver Schmidt
> PGP KeyID: 0x4196BF22
> '76a 26' Eleganza II - Virginia, US
> '73 23' Sequoia - Schleswig-Holstein, Germany
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
I do not know why but other places can get solar a lot lower than we can in
California USA.
Ken: Is there a way to find out what their selling price is?
It takes more than twice as much electricity on the front end to move a car
a mile if it is a fuel cell car than if it is a battery car.

On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 5:04 PM Ken Henderson via Gmclist <

> Not really GMC, or even hydrogen fuel, but our local county commissioners
> just approved a proposal for a 9700 acre solar farm, producing 1,115
> megawatts! The proposer is a big outfit, so hopefully they really will
> complete the $500 million project.
>
> Ken H.
>
> On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 5:46 PM Peer Oliver Schmidt via Gmclist <

>
> > We've paid 60kEUR for 30kWPeak in 2011 for a professional PV
> > installation in Germland. But shopped around, and the range was quite
> > interesting. The most expensive one was 3 times the price...
> >
> > Go figure.
> >
> > Setting up a large PV array somewhere in the US deserts with
> > decentralized hydrogen generation, pipelines to the nearest Interstate,
> > and all of a sudden hydrogen availability for *all* automotive needs
> > would be quite achievable.
> >
> > Unfortunately, the initial investment is larger than by piggy bank is on
> > a diet :-)
> > --
> > Best regards
> >
> > Peer Oliver Schmidt
> > PGP KeyID: 0x4196BF22
> > '76a 26' Eleganza II - Virginia, US
> > '73 23' Sequoia - Schleswig-Holstein, Germany
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--

*John Phillips*
 
I see squadrons of birds falling from the sky as you speak Ken 😜

Sully
Bellevue wa

On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 5:04 PM Ken Henderson via Gmclist <

> Not really GMC, or even hydrogen fuel, but our local county commissioners
> just approved a proposal for a 9700 acre solar farm, producing 1,115
> megawatts! The proposer is a big outfit, so hopefully they really will
> complete the $500 million project.
>
> Ken H.
>
> On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 5:46 PM Peer Oliver Schmidt via Gmclist <

>
> > We've paid 60kEUR for 30kWPeak in 2011 for a professional PV
> > installation in Germland. But shopped around, and the range was quite
> > interesting. The most expensive one was 3 times the price...
> >
> > Go figure.
> >
> > Setting up a large PV array somewhere in the US deserts with
> > decentralized hydrogen generation, pipelines to the nearest Interstate,
> > and all of a sudden hydrogen availability for *all* automotive needs
> > would be quite achievable.
> >
> > Unfortunately, the initial investment is larger than by piggy bank is on
> > a diet :-)
> > --
> > Best regards
> >
> > Peer Oliver Schmidt
> > PGP KeyID: 0x4196BF22
> > '76a 26' Eleganza II - Virginia, US
> > '73 23' Sequoia - Schleswig-Holstein, Germany
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
If this a PV system the birds will be safe.

On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 5:56 PM Todd Sullivan via Gmclist <

> I see squadrons of birds falling from the sky as you speak Ken 😜
>
> Sully
> Bellevue wa
>
> On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 5:04 PM Ken Henderson via Gmclist <

>
> > Not really GMC, or even hydrogen fuel, but our local county commissioners
> > just approved a proposal for a 9700 acre solar farm, producing 1,115
> > megawatts! The proposer is a big outfit, so hopefully they really will
> > complete the $500 million project.
> >
> > Ken H.
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 5:46 PM Peer Oliver Schmidt via Gmclist <

> >
> > > We've paid 60kEUR for 30kWPeak in 2011 for a professional PV
> > > installation in Germland. But shopped around, and the range was quite
> > > interesting. The most expensive one was 3 times the price...
> > >
> > > Go figure.
> > >
> > > Setting up a large PV array somewhere in the US deserts with
> > > decentralized hydrogen generation, pipelines to the nearest Interstate,
> > > and all of a sudden hydrogen availability for *all* automotive needs
> > > would be quite achievable.
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, the initial investment is larger than by piggy bank is
> on
> > > a diet :-)
> > > --
> > > Best regards
> > >
> > > Peer Oliver Schmidt
> > > PGP KeyID: 0x4196BF22
> > > '76a 26' Eleganza II - Virginia, US
> > > '73 23' Sequoia - Schleswig-Holstein, Germany
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--

*John Phillips*
 
John,

There's no price/cost information available except for the overall project
advertised cost of $500M.

Ken H.

On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 8:27 PM John Phillips via Gmclist <

> I do not know why but other places can get solar a lot lower than we can in
> California USA.
> Ken: Is there a way to find out what their selling price is?
>
>
 
There's been a surprising amount of opposition to the proposal, despite the
500 new (1 year long) jobs. Wildlife, environmental, visual, and other
impacts are predicted by some. I personally don't know the exact location
so I don't know whether it will be visible from any major highway. I know
it will be an impressive sight though, based on the solar farm near Butler,
GA which is less than 1/10th the size of this one.

Ken H.

> I see squadrons of birds falling from the sky as you speak Ken 😜
>
> Sully
> Bellevue wa
>
> On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 5:04 PM Ken Henderson via Gmclist <

>
>> Not really GMC, or even hydrogen fuel, but our local county commissioners
>> just approved a proposal for a 9700 acre solar farm, producing 1,115
>> megawatts! The proposer is a big outfit, so hopefully they really will
>> complete the $500 million project.
>>
>> Ken H.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 5:46 PM Peer Oliver Schmidt via Gmclist <

>>
>> > We've paid 60kEUR for 30kWPeak in 2011 for a professional PV
>> > installation in Germland. But shopped around, and the range was quite
>> > interesting. The most expensive one was 3 times the price...
>> >
>> > Go figure.
>> >
>> > Setting up a large PV array somewhere in the US deserts with
>> > decentralized hydrogen generation, pipelines to the nearest Interstate,
>> > and all of a sudden hydrogen availability for *all* automotive needs
>> > would be quite achievable.
>> >
>> > Unfortunately, the initial investment is larger than by piggy bank is on
>> > a diet :-)
>> > --
>> > Best regards
>> >
>> > Peer Oliver Schmidt
>> > PGP KeyID: 0x4196BF22
>> > '76a 26' Eleganza II - Virginia, US
>> > '73 23' Sequoia - Schleswig-Holstein, Germany
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > GMCnet mailing list
>> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
 
What utility will be buying the energy?

On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 3:33 AM Ken Henderson via Gmclist <

> There's been a surprising amount of opposition to the proposal, despite the
> 500 new (1 year long) jobs. Wildlife, environmental, visual, and other
> impacts are predicted by some. I personally don't know the exact location
> so I don't know whether it will be visible from any major highway. I know
> it will be an impressive sight though, based on the solar farm near Butler,
> GA which is less than 1/10th the size of this one.
>
> Ken H.
>

>
> > I see squadrons of birds falling from the sky as you speak Ken 😜
> >
> > Sully
> > Bellevue wa
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 5:04 PM Ken Henderson via Gmclist <

> >
> >> Not really GMC, or even hydrogen fuel, but our local county
> commissioners
> >> just approved a proposal for a 9700 acre solar farm, producing 1,115
> >> megawatts! The proposer is a big outfit, so hopefully they really will
> >> complete the $500 million project.
> >>
> >> Ken H.
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 5:46 PM Peer Oliver Schmidt via Gmclist <

> >>
> >> > We've paid 60kEUR for 30kWPeak in 2011 for a professional PV
> >> > installation in Germland. But shopped around, and the range was quite
> >> > interesting. The most expensive one was 3 times the price...
> >> >
> >> > Go figure.
> >> >
> >> > Setting up a large PV array somewhere in the US deserts with
> >> > decentralized hydrogen generation, pipelines to the nearest
> Interstate,
> >> > and all of a sudden hydrogen availability for *all* automotive needs
> >> > would be quite achievable.
> >> >
> >> > Unfortunately, the initial investment is larger than by piggy bank is
> on
> >> > a diet :-)
> >> > --
> >> > Best regards
> >> >
> >> > Peer Oliver Schmidt
> >> > PGP KeyID: 0x4196BF22
> >> > '76a 26' Eleganza II - Virginia, US
> >> > '73 23' Sequoia - Schleswig-Holstein, Germany
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > GMCnet mailing list
> >> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> GMCnet mailing list
> >> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--

*John Phillips*
 
Georgia Power Co.

GA Power has GA all locked up for alternate power sources as shown here:
https://www.solarpowerrocks.com/2015-solar-power-state-rankings/#georgi
https://www.solarpowerrocks.com/2015-solar-power-state-rankings/#georgia a
They pay so little for excess that it's really not a worthwhile investment
for a home owner. There's been a law passed since then that supposedly
improves the situation, but apparently not very much.

My daughter & SIL recently bought a vacation home on Lake Oconee. The PO
was a survivalist and had spent a LOT of money on a solar installation: A
30'x90' (WAG) "pole barn" with only solar panels for a roof. 10kW, IIRC.
Then, he added another set of inverter/chargers and a BIG battery bank in
the garage for backup during power outages and to hopefully sell back to GA
Power. A total system cost, they were told, of about $60k -- several years
ago. The installer, of course, gave him very optimistic estimates of his
power bills. NOPE! Hardly any impact at all because of GA Power's lock on
the legislature.

My SIL is not very technically oriented, so I doubt the long term viability
of that investment (which they really didn't make; the whole place cost
didn't reflect that addition). I remind him continually that those
batteries need to be serviced frequently.

Ken H.

On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 12:21 PM John Phillips via Gmclist <

> What utility will be buying the energy?
>
> On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 3:33 AM Ken Henderson via Gmclist <

>
> > There's been a surprising amount of opposition to the proposal, despite
> the
> > 500 new (1 year long) jobs. Wildlife, environmental, visual, and other
> > impacts are predicted by some. I personally don't know the exact
> location
> > so I don't know whether it will be visible from any major highway. I
> know
> > it will be an impressive sight though, based on the solar farm near
> Butler,
> > GA which is less than 1/10th the size of this one.
> >
> > Ken H.
> >

> >
> > > I see squadrons of birds falling from the sky as you speak Ken ?
> > >
> > > Sully
> > > Bellevue wa
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 5:04 PM Ken Henderson via Gmclist <

> > >
> > >> Not really GMC, or even hydrogen fuel, but our local county
> > commissioners
> > >> just approved a proposal for a 9700 acre solar farm, producing 1,115
> > >> megawatts! The proposer is a big outfit, so hopefully they really
> will
> > >> complete the $500 million project.
> > >>
> > >> Ken H.
> > >>
> > >> On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 5:46 PM Peer Oliver Schmidt via Gmclist <

> > >>
> > >> > We've paid 60kEUR for 30kWPeak in 2011 for a professional PV
> > >> > installation in Germland. But shopped around, and the range was
> quite
> > >> > interesting. The most expensive one was 3 times the price...
> > >> >
> > >> > Go figure.
> > >> >
> > >> > Setting up a large PV array somewhere in the US deserts with
> > >> > decentralized hydrogen generation, pipelines to the nearest
> > Interstate,
> > >> > and all of a sudden hydrogen availability for *all* automotive needs
> > >> > would be quite achievable.
> > >> >
> > >> > Unfortunately, the initial investment is larger than by piggy bank
> is
> > on
> > >> > a diet :-)
> > >> > --
> > >> > Best regards
> > >> >
> > >> > Peer Oliver Schmidt
> > >> > PGP KeyID: 0x4196BF22
> > >> > '76a 26' Eleganza II - Virginia, US
> > >> > '73 23' Sequoia - Schleswig-Holstein, Germany
> > >> >
> > >> > _______________________________________________
> > >> > GMCnet mailing list
> > >> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > >> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > >> >
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> GMCnet mailing list
> > >> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > >> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > >>
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
>
>
> --
>
> *John Phillips*
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Yikes. With net metering here in California it’s often a 6-8 year roi. After that it’s gravy.

The excess energy generated is credited at the rate applicable at that time of day. Then we are charged for what we use based on the time of usage.

We charge the Tesla after 11:00 PM when the juice is cheapest. The solar panels crank out energy at mid-tier rates, and we use premium in the evening.

Our electric bill last year was $6, but we used far more energy than we produced. This year will be worse because of the full year of Tesla fun, however it still far cheaper than buying gas (and a hell of a lot more fun).

Larry Davick
1976(ish) Palm Beach.

>
> Georgia Power Co.
>
> GA Power has GA all locked up for alternate power sources as shown here:
> https://www.solarpowerrocks.com/2015-solar-power-state-rankings/#georgi
> https://www.solarpowerrocks.com/2015-solar-power-state-rankings/#georgia a
> They pay so little for excess that it's really not a worthwhile investment
> for a home owner. There's been a law passed since then that supposedly
> improves the situation, but apparently not very much.
>
> My daughter & SIL recently bought a vacation home on Lake Oconee. The PO
> was a survivalist and had spent a LOT of money on a solar installation: A
> 30'x90' (WAG) "pole barn" with only solar panels for a roof. 10kW, IIRC.
> Then, he added another set of inverter/chargers and a BIG battery bank in
> the garage for backup during power outages and to hopefully sell back to GA
> Power. A total system cost, they were told, of about $60k -- several years
> ago. The installer, of course, gave him very optimistic estimates of his
> power bills. NOPE! Hardly any impact at all because of GA Power's lock on
> the legislature.
>
> My SIL is not very technically oriented, so I doubt the long term viability
> of that investment (which they really didn't make; the whole place cost
> didn't reflect that addition). I remind him continually that those
> batteries need to be serviced frequently.
>
> Ken H.
>
>> On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 12:21 PM John Phillips via Gmclist <

>>
>> What utility will be buying the energy?
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 3:33 AM Ken Henderson via Gmclist <

>>
>>> There's been a surprising amount of opposition to the proposal, despite
>> the
>>> 500 new (1 year long) jobs. Wildlife, environmental, visual, and other
>>> impacts are predicted by some. I personally don't know the exact
>> location
>>> so I don't know whether it will be visible from any major highway. I
>> know
>>> it will be an impressive sight though, based on the solar farm near
>> Butler,
>>> GA which is less than 1/10th the size of this one.
>>>
>>> Ken H.
>>>

>>>
>>>> I see squadrons of birds falling from the sky as you speak Ken ?
>>>>
>>>> Sully
>>>> Bellevue wa
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 5:04 PM Ken Henderson via Gmclist <

>>>>
>>>>> Not really GMC, or even hydrogen fuel, but our local county
>>> commissioners
>>>>> just approved a proposal for a 9700 acre solar farm, producing 1,115
>>>>> megawatts! The proposer is a big outfit, so hopefully they really
>> will
>>>>> complete the $500 million project.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ken H.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 5:46 PM Peer Oliver Schmidt via Gmclist <

>>>>>
>>>>>> We've paid 60kEUR for 30kWPeak in 2011 for a professional PV
>>>>>> installation in Germland. But shopped around, and the range was
>> quite
>>>>>> interesting. The most expensive one was 3 times the price...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Go figure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Setting up a large PV array somewhere in the US deserts with
>>>>>> decentralized hydrogen generation, pipelines to the nearest
>>> Interstate,
>>>>>> and all of a sudden hydrogen availability for *all* automotive needs
>>>>>> would be quite achievable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unfortunately, the initial investment is larger than by piggy bank
>> is
>>> on
>>>>>> a diet :-)
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Best regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Peer Oliver Schmidt
>>>>>> PGP KeyID: 0x4196BF22
>>>>>> '76a 26' Eleganza II - Virginia, US
>>>>>> '73 23' Sequoia - Schleswig-Holstein, Germany
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *John Phillips*
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Larry, My experience is a lot like your except the rates are a lot lower.
On my last house, I was getting 34 cents from 4 to 7 pm and buying it back
at night for about 8 cents.
I just moved 11 miles and have the same utility but they have changed the
rates so I can only get 10 cents while the sun shines on my east-facing
roof. The west side is all shaded. After the sun goes down the rates go up.
I do not see a way to break even with the new rate structure.

Ken, The only way for solar to pay in those conditions is to reduce the
amount of energy purchased. They may even bill your SIL for the energy they
put back on the grid as if he used it.
Utilities can not operate paying full retail for energy that they can buy
at 20% of retail.
From what I can tell electricity costs in CA are 50% higher for everyone
because of the solar mandates.

On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 1:11 PM Larry Davick via Gmclist <

> Yikes. With net metering here in California it’s often a 6-8 year roi.
> After that it’s gravy.
>
> The excess energy generated is credited at the rate applicable at that
> time of day. Then we are charged for what we use based on the time of
> usage.
>
> We charge the Tesla after 11:00 PM when the juice is cheapest. The solar
> panels crank out energy at mid-tier rates, and we use premium in the
> evening.
>
> Our electric bill last year was $6, but we used far more energy than we
> produced. This year will be worse because of the full year of Tesla fun,
> however it still far cheaper than buying gas (and a hell of a lot more
> fun).
>
> Larry Davick
> 1976(ish) Palm Beach.
>
> > On Jan 25, 2020, at 10:17 AM, Ken Henderson via Gmclist <

> >
> > Georgia Power Co.
> >
> > GA Power has GA all locked up for alternate power sources as shown here:
> > https://www.solarpowerrocks.com/2015-solar-power-state-rankings/#georgi
> > <
> https://www.solarpowerrocks.com/2015-solar-power-state-rankings/#georgia>a
> > They pay so little for excess that it's really not a worthwhile
> investment
> > for a home owner. There's been a law passed since then that supposedly
> > improves the situation, but apparently not very much.
> >
> > My daughter & SIL recently bought a vacation home on Lake Oconee. The PO
> > was a survivalist and had spent a LOT of money on a solar installation:
> A
> > 30'x90' (WAG) "pole barn" with only solar panels for a roof. 10kW, IIRC.
> > Then, he added another set of inverter/chargers and a BIG battery bank in
> > the garage for backup during power outages and to hopefully sell back to
> GA
> > Power. A total system cost, they were told, of about $60k -- several
> years
> > ago. The installer, of course, gave him very optimistic estimates of his
> > power bills. NOPE! Hardly any impact at all because of GA Power's lock
> on
> > the legislature.
> >
> > My SIL is not very technically oriented, so I doubt the long term
> viability
> > of that investment (which they really didn't make; the whole place cost
> > didn't reflect that addition). I remind him continually that those
> > batteries need to be serviced frequently.
> >
> > Ken H.
> >
> >> On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 12:21 PM John Phillips via Gmclist <

> >>
> >> What utility will be buying the energy?
> >>
> >> On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 3:33 AM Ken Henderson via Gmclist <

> >>
> >>> There's been a surprising amount of opposition to the proposal, despite
> >> the
> >>> 500 new (1 year long) jobs. Wildlife, environmental, visual, and other
> >>> impacts are predicted by some. I personally don't know the exact
> >> location
> >>> so I don't know whether it will be visible from any major highway. I
> >> know
> >>> it will be an impressive sight though, based on the solar farm near
> >> Butler,
> >>> GA which is less than 1/10th the size of this one.
> >>>
> >>> Ken H.
> >>>
> >>>> On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 8:55 PM Todd Sullivan

> >>>
> >>>> I see squadrons of birds falling from the sky as you speak Ken ?
> >>>>
> >>>> Sully
> >>>> Bellevue wa
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 5:04 PM Ken Henderson via Gmclist <

> >>>>
> >>>>> Not really GMC, or even hydrogen fuel, but our local county
> >>> commissioners
> >>>>> just approved a proposal for a 9700 acre solar farm, producing 1,115
> >>>>> megawatts! The proposer is a big outfit, so hopefully they really
> >> will
> >>>>> complete the $500 million project.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ken H.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 5:46 PM Peer Oliver Schmidt via Gmclist <

> >>>>>
> >>>>>> We've paid 60kEUR for 30kWPeak in 2011 for a professional PV
> >>>>>> installation in Germland. But shopped around, and the range was
> >> quite
> >>>>>> interesting. The most expensive one was 3 times the price...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Go figure.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Setting up a large PV array somewhere in the US deserts with
> >>>>>> decentralized hydrogen generation, pipelines to the nearest
> >>> Interstate,
> >>>>>> and all of a sudden hydrogen availability for *all* automotive needs
> >>>>>> would be quite achievable.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Unfortunately, the initial investment is larger than by piggy bank
> >> is
> >>> on
> >>>>>> a diet :-)
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Best regards
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Peer Oliver Schmidt
> >>>>>> PGP KeyID: 0x4196BF22
> >>>>>> '76a 26' Eleganza II - Virginia, US
> >>>>>> '73 23' Sequoia - Schleswig-Holstein, Germany
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> GMCnet mailing list
> >>>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >>>>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> GMCnet mailing list
> >>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >>>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> GMCnet mailing list
> >>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> *John Phillips*
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> GMCnet mailing list
> >> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--

*John Phillips*
 
Georgia Power Co.

GA Power has GA all locked up for alternate power sources as shown here:
https://www.solarpowerrocks.com/2015-solar-power-state-rankings/#georgi
https://www.solarpowerrocks.com/2015-solar-power-state-rankings/#georgia a
They pay so little for excess that it's really not a worthwhile investment
for a home owner. There's been a law passed since then that supposedly
improves the situation, but apparently not very much.

My daughter & SIL recently bought a vacation home on Lake Oconee. The PO
was a survivalist and had spent a LOT of money on a solar installation: A
30'x90' (WAG) "pole barn" with only solar panels for a roof. 10kW, IIRC.
Then, he added another set of inverter/chargers and a BIG battery bank in
the garage for backup during power outages and to hopefully sell back to GA
Power. A total system cost, they were told, of about $60k -- several years
ago. The installer, of course, gave him very optimistic estimates of his
power bills. NOPE! Hardly any impact at all because of GA Power's lock on
the legislature.

My SIL is not very technically oriented, so I doubt the long term viability
of that investment (which they really didn't make; the whole place cost
didn't reflect that addition). I remind him continually that those
batteries need to be serviced frequently.

Ken H.
 
Ken,
GA residential average rate of 11.17 cents/kWh is so low that it would be
challenging to build a solar solution that would be less costly than just
paying the utility.
Solar farms are a lot more cost-effective than putting solar on rooftops. I
would trade places with you in a heartbeat as far as solar is concerned.
If anything, CA's solar friendly push has raised the average cost of
electricity in CA by about 50%.
Going green is not cheap.

On Sun, Jan 26, 2020 at 2:53 PM Fred Hudspeth via Gmclist <

> Caution on the rate base impact from committing to "renewables"...
>
> Ref. Georgetown, TX "experiment" with renewable energy
>
> https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/green-new-deal-preview-texas-town-environmen
> talism-chuck-devore
> https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/green-new-deal-preview-texas-town-environmentalism-chuck-devore
> Similarly reported by other major news networks, WSJ,
> Forbes, Fortune, etc.
>
>
> Georgetown residents (I know some of them) are irate over the incremental
> power costs they are incurring as a result of the "green" deal their
> politicians made for them.
>
> Fred Hudspeth
>
>
> Fred Hudspeth
> 1978 Royale (TZE 368V101335) - Tyler, TX
> 1982 Airstream Excella (motorhome) - Cooper Landing, Alaska
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2020 13:16:07 -0500
> From: Ken Henderson
> To: GMC Mail List
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Electric Vehicles
> Message-ID:
> <
> CANsh1i0KNuhDaM6jMCRj8igD8eGC8Kf-CZEe5sLqJfa5hnv+0A>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Georgia Power Co.
>
> GA Power has GA all locked up for alternate power sources as shown here:
> https://www.solarpowerrocks.com/2015-solar-power-state-rankings/#georgi
> >a
> They pay so little for excess that it's really not a worthwhile investment
> for a home owner. There's been a law passed since then that supposedly
> improves the situation, but apparently not very much.
>
> My daughter & SIL recently bought a vacation home on Lake Oconee. The PO
> was a survivalist and had spent a LOT of money on a solar installation: A
> 30'x90' (WAG) "pole barn" with only solar panels for a roof. 10kW, IIRC.
> Then, he added another set of inverter/chargers and a BIG battery bank in
> the garage for backup during power outages and to hopefully sell back to GA
> Power. A total system cost, they were told, of about $60k -- several years
> ago. The installer, of course, gave him very optimistic estimates of his
> power bills. NOPE! Hardly any impact at all because of GA Power's lock on
> the legislature.
>
> My SIL is not very technically oriented, so I doubt the long term viability
> of that investment (which they really didn't make; the whole place cost
> didn't reflect that addition). I remind him continually that those
> batteries need to be serviced frequently.
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--

*John Phillips*
 
You are right. I missed the decimal point. Paid about $7200 for a 3600 watt solar panel roof mount kit. Includes panels, racking, inverters. Engineering was $500. Misc parts for my installation was $600.

>
>
>
> $2.00 per kilowatt is unbelievable - that would mean I could replace my
> entire home 240v 200A service (48 KW) for less than $100.
>
> are you sure of your decimal point? Or is that per Kilowatt per month
> for 4 years?
>
> Just asking
>
> Stu
>

> > Do some more shopping. I am installing a roof mount solar system here in North San Diego County that works out to less than $2.00 per KW. My payback is a little over 4 years, assuming the electric rates stay the same. I can assure you that the electric rates we pay WILL continue to rise as it relates to maintenance costs of all of that wire, not considering the increases in the fuel costs.
> >

> >>
> >>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
It was offered as a DIY project as an option. Using Iron Ridge racking on a concrete tile roof. Very easy to work on.

>
>
> Is this a DIY project? What kind of roof do you have? What racking system
> are they using? My racking systems seem to cost about $80 per panel.
>
> On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 8:59 AM RICHARD/MARLI SHOOP via Gmclist <

>
> > Do some more shopping. I am installing a roof mount solar system here in
> > North San Diego County that works out to less than $2.00 per KW. My payback
> > is a little over 4 years, assuming the electric rates stay the same. I can
> > assure you that the electric rates we pay WILL continue to rise as it
> > relates to maintenance costs of all of that wire, not considering the
> > increases in the fuel costs.
> >
> > > On January 23, 2020 at 12:56 PM John Phillips via Gmclist <

> > >
> > >
> > > Solar panels work for you if your utility rates are high and you have a
> > > favorable net-metering contract.
> > > It is hard to justify solar if you are paying $4,000 a kWDC no net
> > metering
> > > and your rates are low like less than 10 cents /kWh.
> > > My best quote so far has been $3,250 /kWDC and my rate is $0.1001 for all
> > > the time my panels would be active. The one thing in my favor is retail
> > > net-metering.
> > > 1 kWDC where I am would generate about 4,000 kWh/ year or $400 a year.
> > > Even if I paid cash and ignored the time value of money it would take
> > about
> > > 8 years to break even.
> > > Am I going to stay in this house that long or even live that long?
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 10:28 AM Johnny Bridges via Gmclist <

> > >
> > > > Seems to me electrolysis using solar panels would be the way for an
> > > > individual to generate it. Given the right capture setup, you could
> > get
> > > > oxygen
> > > > for your welding as well.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --johnny
> > > > --
> > > > Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> > > > Braselton, Ga.
> > > > I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to
> > me
> > > > in hell
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > *John Phillips*
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
>
>
> --
>
> *John Phillips*
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
John,

You're probably right. With the low basic rate, the wholesale rate GA
Power pays "buy back" is simply too cheap to go far toward the high cost
the PO paid for the installation.

I don't know what the lake house electric bill runs; I should compare it to
ours here, 'though it won't be very meaningful since the lake house is used
mostly weekends. Also, my SIL likes it warm in summer and cold in winter
instead of my opposite preferences. They probably never see the $500 bills
we sometimes have! :-(

Ken H.

On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 12:06 AM John Phillips via Gmclist <

> Ken,
> GA residential average rate of 11.17 cents/kWh is so low that it would be
> challenging to build a solar solution that would be less costly than just
> paying the utility.
> Solar farms are a lot more cost-effective than putting solar on rooftops. I
> would trade places with you in a heartbeat as far as solar is concerned.
> If anything, CA's solar friendly push has raised the average cost of
> electricity in CA by about 50%.
> Going green is not cheap.
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 26, 2020 at 2:53 PM Fred Hudspeth via Gmclist <

>
> > Caution on the rate base impact from committing to "renewables"...
> >
> > Ref. Georgetown, TX "experiment" with renewable energy
> >
> >
> https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/green-new-deal-preview-texas-town-environmen
> > talism-chuck-devore
> > <
> https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/green-new-deal-preview-texas-town-environmentalism-chuck-devore
> >
> > Similarly reported by other major news networks, WSJ,
> > Forbes, Fortune, etc.
> >
> >
> > Georgetown residents (I know some of them) are irate over the incremental
> > power costs they are incurring as a result of the "green" deal their
> > politicians made for them.
> >
> > Fred Hudspeth
> >
> >
> > Fred Hudspeth
> > 1978 Royale (TZE 368V101335) - Tyler, TX
> > 1982 Airstream Excella (motorhome) - Cooper Landing, Alaska
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2020 13:16:07 -0500
> > From: Ken Henderson
> > To: GMC Mail List
> > Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Electric Vehicles
> > Message-ID:
> > <
> > CANsh1i0KNuhDaM6jMCRj8igD8eGC8Kf-CZEe5sLqJfa5hnv+0A>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >
> > Georgia Power Co.
> >
> > GA Power has GA all locked up for alternate power sources as shown here:
> > https://www.solarpowerrocks.com/2015-solar-power-state-rankings/#georgi
> > <
> https://www.solarpowerrocks.com/2015-solar-power-state-rankings/#georgia
> > >a
> > They pay so little for excess that it's really not a worthwhile
> investment
> > for a home owner. There's been a law passed since then that supposedly
> > improves the situation, but apparently not very much.
> >
> > My daughter & SIL recently bought a vacation home on Lake Oconee. The PO
> > was a survivalist and had spent a LOT of money on a solar installation:
> A
> > 30'x90' (WAG) "pole barn" with only solar panels for a roof. 10kW, IIRC.
> > Then, he added another set of inverter/chargers and a BIG battery bank in
> > the garage for backup during power outages and to hopefully sell back to
> GA
> > Power. A total system cost, they were told, of about $60k -- several
> years
> > ago. The installer, of course, gave him very optimistic estimates of his
> > power bills. NOPE! Hardly any impact at all because of GA Power's lock
> on
> > the legislature.
> >
> > My SIL is not very technically oriented, so I doubt the long term
> viability
> > of that investment (which they really didn't make; the whole place cost
> > didn't reflect that addition). I remind him continually that those
> > batteries need to be serviced frequently.
> >
> > Ken H.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
>
>
> --
>
> *John Phillips*
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
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