Electric Conversion ?

Don't know what you are smoking, but huge stack emissions are difficult to
measure accurately and because of the intimacy they share with the E.P.A.,
are often given a green light for breaking emission guidelines. They have
huge budgets for legal defenses, and are not afraid to tie government
agencies up in knots.
I remember back in the days 1955-56 when there were absolutely NO
emission regulations. A 1955 Chevrolet in-line 6 cylinder engine, coupled
to a manual 3 speed /w overdrive transmission on bias ply tires would
consistently deliver 25 mpg at a steady state 60 miles per hour.
So, if you drove 100 miles, you would burn 4 gallons of regular grade
leaded fuel. If you really want the UHC, CO, and other exhaust emissions, I
can find them for you, but, they were not regulated then.
THEN, IN ABOUT 1972, CAME EMISSION REGULATIONS AND CONTROLS, like Air
injection into the exhaust stream (smog pumps) Exhaust gas recirculation,
(EGR) Retarded camshaft and ignition timing, (we didn't have Catastrophic
Converters yet), very lean air/fuel ratios, and modified fuels (eliminated
tetra-ethyl lead in gasoline and replaced it with some very deadly
additives that contaminated ground waters. Hexavalent chromium being one of
them.
The tailpipe emissions went down, and the EPA said, "Isn't that neat!"
Funny thing, fuel economy with the modified gasoline on your Chevrolet
in-line 6 went down from 25 mpg to 8 -10 mpg. Soooooo, your 100 mile drive
that used to burn 4 gallons of gas, now consumed nearly 10 gallons of
modified (more expensive, more fuel taxes, too) gasoline.
Riddle me this. What happened to the other nearly 6 gallons of
gasoline?
Stop trying to blow smoke up my skirt and tell me it's good for me.
Only one party wins this one, and it is not you and me. Uncle Sam wins
this round, and tries to say it's the greedy oil barons.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or

On Fri, May 24, 2019, 7:09 PM Jeremy via Gmclist
wrote:

> Absolutely it matters. Regulating one or two smokestacks and finding ways
> to reduce the pollution output of those 2 smokestacks is a lot easier than
> regulating millions of tailpipes. In AL there is no regulation of
> tailpipes at all. FL as well just to cover 2 states I've lived in. There is
> monitoring and regulation of industrial pollution. So yes it matters and
> it's not difficult to understand that it is easier to monitor and reduce a
> single large fixed source than millions of small mobil sources.
> --
> Thanks,
> Jeremy Knezek
> 1976 Glenbrook
> Birmingham, AL
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Some modes of transportation are already successfully using battery power.

Norway has been successfully operating a 100% battery-powered electric car ferry, the Ampere, across a fiord for four years, and reports 95% CO2 and
80% cost reductions. Based on that success there are now 53 of them in use or on order in Europe. Washington State Ferries plans to re-power several
ferries to electric in the next few years. (As an aside, the batteries for that ferry are made in British Columbia by Corvus)

The island where we live is served by a little 21 car ferry that now needs to be replaced, and the County that operates it is seriously considering an
electric ferry. (If they hurry, it will be the first one in the US.)

Studies indicate that it will use over 50,000 KWH per week, 39% of it generated by renewable energy sources by the Utility. Fuel costs will go from
300,000 dollars per year to 175,000. It will be quieter (airborne and underwater) and more reliable, will not add diesel particulates to the air, will
dramatically reduce the risk of hazardous discharges, and save 500,000 dollars a year in operating costs.

But a ferry at 10 knots and 4 minute runs is much more conducive to battery power than our GMCs operating at 65 mph and 4 hours between refueling.
Even so, the ferry will need to be re-charged all night every night and in the ten minutes between runs to keep the battery plant from discharging to
a damaging level by the end of the day.

--
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid
November 2015.
 
> Does it really make any difference if 100,000 fossil fueled vehicles burn
> hydrocarbons, or if one or two centrally located electrical generating plants generate electricity for that same 100,000 Ev's by burning fossil
> fuels if the efficiency is the same? I think not.
>
> In the Hawaiian islands, where all electricity used for recharging EV's is generated by burning fossil fuels, people have been led to believe that
> EV's are the best thing since sliced bread. I call B.S. on that.
> Jim Hupy

A man that was a good friend of mine worked at one of the observatories there. He was laughing one day when someone talking about that. He figured
out early on that Hawaiians were about one tanker away form being Amish.....

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
> $58,000 in batteries is why all these calculations, ultimately equal mental masturbation.
>
> It keeps the grey matter active though!
>
> Dolph Santorine

Dolph,

I know you won't mind when I borrow this line.....

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
>

>> Does it really make any difference if 100,000 fossil fueled vehicles burn
>> hydrocarbons, or if one or two centrally located electrical generating plants generate electricity for that same 100,000 Ev's by burning fossil
>> fuels if the efficiency is the same? I think not.
>>
>> In the Hawaiian islands, where all electricity used for recharging EV's is generated by burning fossil fuels, people have been led to believe that
>> EV's are the best thing since sliced bread. I call B.S. on that.
>> Jim Hupy

I could not agree with you more, Jim.

Some places in the country, power comes from nearly 100% coal

At what point do we break the power grid? We already know about the inefficiencies of single large power plant, but is that better than delivering the fuel via pipeline and burning it under the hood (bureaucrats seem to like that better, individual motorists don’t have lobbyists)

I joked about it before, but if you are in Western PA, WV, KY and most of Ohio, your power comes from Coal, meaning your Tesla (BMW, Bolt, Leaf) runs on coal.

No commentary. It just is.

Dolph Santorine
 
> Well, actually, the CD is excellent, .30 being the number most mentioned, exceeded at the time only by the Corvette. But, .3 of 72 sruare feet is
> still a lot of drag. Tesla folks tell me one of the pickles in the Tesla vanilla is the HVAC, particular in the cold. When the temperature is
> below the heat pump operating range you have to rely on resistance heating, which is incredibly inefficient. At a time when the battery is degraded
> by the cold. Essentially, an all electric GMC is gonna freeze you or kill your range.
> However, it's probably a fun exercise which will be the standard when - in decades at best - the infrastructure for hydrogen is put in place and
> vehicles use fuel cells. My bet for that infrastructure is solar energy to crack water into its components and sell the oxygen as well as the
> hydrogen on a very local basis
>
> johnny

Johnny,

You have the terms sort of confused....
Electric heating is very efficient in terms of energy used verses effect.
But compared to the heating in a modern ICE vehicle which uses waste heat for the cabin heat....
Electrics have very little waste heat.

Matt - who wanted to use that waste heat to run absorption unit for the A/C
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
Bill,

Virtually all the push-me-pull-you ferries in operation are diesel electric and most of those are DC drive or phase controlled (which is DC input). So
pulling out the diesel power plant and putting in batteries is not a big deal. Many of the lake ships have shore power cords for hundreds of amperes
at 480AC so that is off the shelf.

GE is marketing Hybrid rail locomotives. For a long time, there have been mixed power rail that use either over-head or third rail to run out of the
urban area and then change to onboard diesel for the rest of the run.

None of this is new, we have been waiting for batteries and economics to drive the change. That has always worked out well in the past.

Matt

> Some modes of transportation are already successfully using battery power.
>
> Norway has been successfully operating a 100% battery-powered electric car ferry, the Ampere, across a fiord for four years, and reports 95% CO2
> and 80% cost reductions. (As an aside, the batteries for that ferry are made in British Columbia by Corvus.) Based on that success there are now 53
> of them in use or on order in Europe. Washington State Ferries plans to re-power several ferries to electric in the next few years.
>
> The island where we live is served by a little 21 car ferry that now needs to be replaced, and the County that operates it is seriously
> considering an electric ferry. (If they hurry, it will be the first one in the US.)
>
> Studies indicate that it will use over 50,000 KWH per week, 39% of it generated by renewable energy sources by the Utility. Fuel costs will go
> from 300,000 dollars per year to 175,000. It will be quieter (airborne and underwater) and more reliable, will not add diesel particulates to the
> air, will dramatically reduce the risk of hazardous discharges, and save 500,000 dollars a year in operating costs.
>
> But a ferry at 10 knots and 4 minute runs is much more conducive to battery power than our GMCs operating at 65 mph and 4 hours between refueling.
> Even so, the ferry will need to be re-charged all night every night and in the ten minutes between runs to keep the battery plant from discharging
> to a damaging level by the end of the day.

--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
> None of this is new, we have been waiting for batteries and economics to drive the change. That has always worked out well in the past.
>
> Matt

Matt, is that sarcasm or do you believe batteries will get will get better and cheaper quick enough to be relevant?
--
Dave & Ellen Silva

1972 Revcon Olds 455, toro drive train. All Stock
 
Matt,
It's new in that the ferries are 100% battery-powered... I guess you'd call them 'battery electric'. So in the case of the European ferries at
least, the batteries and cost economics are favorable enough for some huge investments.

This study (http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres/6C78A08B-19A1-4919-B6E6-E9EF83E6376D/123057/HybridChargingFeasibilityStudy.pdf) for the Washington
State Ferries indicates that the charging rate between runs needs to be 10 Megawatts at 12.4 kV, (not so easy at 480V) and points out the challenges
in delivering and connecting that much power in the short time they they are at dock.

But in the GMC case, until batteries store as much energy in as much space and weight as a gallon of dinosaurs we're pretty much at the mercy of that
long fill tube.

--
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid
November 2015.
 
10 Megawatts between runs.

Wow.

I guess is you have a cold water heat sink in the form of Puget Sound you can get away with hitting those batteries that hard.

I see 10 megawatts, know it’s not 100% efficient, and the first thing I think is where does the heat go?

Even three percent of that makes a lot of toast.

Looks like the public is going to be subsidizing this endeavor for a while.

The infrastructure build out for this is not trivial, and is more significant if you need it on the island side.

I spent a month with friends on Anderson Island (years ago) and remember their issues at the time with power.

Jigging for squid was amazing though.

Dolph Santorine

DE AD0LF

Wheeling, West Virginia

1977 ex-Palm Beach TZE167V100820
Howell EFI/EBL , Reaction Arms, Manny Transmission

>
> Matt,
> It's new in that the ferries are 100% battery-powered... I guess you'd call them 'battery electric'. So in the case of the European ferries at
> least, the batteries and cost economics are favorable enough for some huge investments.
>
> This study (http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres/6C78A08B-19A1-4919-B6E6-E9EF83E6376D/123057/HybridChargingFeasibilityStudy.pdf) for the Washington
> State Ferries indicates that the charging rate between runs needs to be 10 Megawatts at 12.4 kV, (not so easy at 480V) and points out the challenges
> in delivering and connecting that much power in the short time they they are at dock.
>
> But in the GMC case, until batteries store as much energy in as much space and weight as a gallon of dinosaurs we're pretty much at the mercy of that
> long fill tube.
>
>
> --
> Bill Van Vlack
> '76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid
> November 2015.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Heck, no problem. They just burn some fossil fuel to charge the batteries.
Jim Hupy

On Sat, May 25, 2019, 10:19 AM Adolph Santorine via Gmclist <

> 10 Megawatts between runs.
>
> Wow.
>
> I guess is you have a cold water heat sink in the form of Puget Sound you
> can get away with hitting those batteries that hard.
>
> I see 10 megawatts, know it’s not 100% efficient, and the first thing I
> think is where does the heat go?
>
> Even three percent of that makes a lot of toast.
>
> Looks like the public is going to be subsidizing this endeavor for a
> while.
>
> The infrastructure build out for this is not trivial, and is more
> significant if you need it on the island side.
>
> I spent a month with friends on Anderson Island (years ago) and remember
> their issues at the time with power.
>
> Jigging for squid was amazing though.
>
> Dolph Santorine
>
> DE AD0LF
>
> Wheeling, West Virginia
>
> 1977 ex-Palm Beach TZE167V100820
> Howell EFI/EBL , Reaction Arms, Manny Transmission
>
>
> > On May 25, 2019, at 11:56 AM, Bill Van Vlack via Gmclist <

> >
> > Matt,
> > It's new in that the ferries are 100% battery-powered... I guess you'd
> call them 'battery electric'. So in the case of the European ferries at
> > least, the batteries and cost economics are favorable enough for some
> huge investments.
> >
> > This study (
> http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres/6C78A08B-19A1-4919-B6E6-E9EF83E6376D/123057/HybridChargingFeasibilityStudy.pdf)
> for the Washington
> > State Ferries indicates that the charging rate between runs needs to be
> 10 Megawatts at 12.4 kV, (not so easy at 480V) and points out the challenges
> > in delivering and connecting that much power in the short time they they
> are at dock.
> >
> > But in the GMC case, until batteries store as much energy in as much
> space and weight as a gallon of dinosaurs we're pretty much at the mercy of
> that
> > long fill tube.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Bill Van Vlack
> > '76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath,
> Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o
> mid
> > November 2015.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Dolph,
That 10MW is for the large Washington State ferries... Our little ferry uses about 100 KWH per round trip and has about 15 minutes between runs on
the mainland side to recharge, so 400KW for the 1/4 hour recharge time. The batteries are charged to 95% during the night, then allowed to discharge
to about 65% with partial recharging between runs.

Unlike roads (except toll roads), the governing Ordinance requires fares to make up 65% of operating cost. The rest is from the State Roads funds, gas
tax, and grants. Plus there is a new Fare Surcharge for a sinking fund to replace batteries a few times over it's projected 40 year life.

You're right about the infrastructure - for this 20 million dollar 28 car ferry, 5 million is for power system upgrades by the Utility. No recharging
on the island side since the turnaround doesn't have to accommodate ticketing. (Round trip fares).

--
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid
November 2015.
 
Matt, can't agree. Electric resistance heat is substantially less efficient than a heat pump - where the temperature allows the heat pump to operate.
Electircally moving heat about is substantuially less expensive than turning electricity directly into heat. Even when you consider the cost of the
equipment (the heat pump wants a compressor, evaporator, etc, whleh strip heat needs only an inexpensive resistance wire).

==johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
 
> Matt, can't agree. Electric resistance heat is substantially less efficient than a heat pump - where the temperature allows the heat pump to
> operate. Electircally moving heat about is substantuially less expensive than turning electricity directly into heat. Even when you consider the
> cost of the equipment (the heat pump wants a compressor, evaporator, etc, whleh strip heat needs only an inexpensive resistance wire).
>
> ==johnny

Johnny,

I agree with the first half of your first line, but it ends at the second half of that line because operating temperature window is so small.

People need heat most when OAT gets below 40°F. Heat Pumps that are working from air essentially become useless below about there.
So, if Teslas has heat pumps for cab heat, they would still need resistance heating.

Even trying to run in the low 40s, residential heat pumps have to be equipped with "flash heaters" that come on and fire a burst of heat to defrost
the evaporator during low temperature operation.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
Hmmmmm! Let me ponder all this a bit. If heat is created during use, and
serves no purpose other than keeping Orca's warm, it must be accounted for
on the inefficiencies of the ledger. Kinda like exhaust gasses on an
internal combustion engine. Same with cooling system.
It has been a very long time since I studied thermodynamics in
classes, but I remember some charts that compared efficiency between
various propulsion systems. Rocket engines were the absolute worst.
Internal combustion reciprocating engines were also up there as well. Then
came pure jet engines, gas burning turbines with gearboxes, and similar
critters, then wood fired steam boilers that supplied reciprocating motors
(locomotives) followed by different types of fuel for the boilers, then on
to single stage steam turbine engines, followed by multi-stage steam
turbines. Very high on the list was nuclear reactors heating steam for
multi-stage turbines. When used in linear applications, like propeller
shafts in water, their efficiency was unsurpassed.
It would take one extremely developed D.C. motor powered by batteries
to surpass the last one. No comparison was made with regards to safety or
development costs.
Jim Hupy

On Sat, May 25, 2019, 2:07 PM Matt Colie via Gmclist <

> > Matt, can't agree. Electric resistance heat is substantially less
> efficient than a heat pump - where the temperature allows the heat pump to
> > operate. Electircally moving heat about is substantuially less expensive
> than turning electricity directly into heat. Even when you consider the
> > cost of the equipment (the heat pump wants a compressor, evaporator,
> etc, whleh strip heat needs only an inexpensive resistance wire).
> >
> > ==johnny
>
> Johnny,
>
> I agree with the first half of your first line, but it ends at the second
> half of that line because operating temperature window is so small.
>
> People need heat most when OAT gets below 40°F. Heat Pumps that are
> working from air essentially become useless below about there.
> So, if Teslas has heat pumps for cab heat, they would still need
> resistance heating.
>
> Even trying to run in the low 40s, residential heat pumps have to be
> equipped with "flash heaters" that come on and fire a burst of heat to
> defrost
> the evaporator during low temperature operation.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Then obviously we should be investigating converting our GMCs to nuclear power instead of wasting our time discussing conversion to battery power.

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO

>
> Hmmmmm! Let me ponder all this a bit. If heat is created during use, and
> serves no purpose other than keeping Orca's warm, it must be accounted for
> on the inefficiencies of the ledger. Kinda like exhaust gasses on an
> internal combustion engine. Same with cooling system.
> It has been a very long time since I studied thermodynamics in
> classes, but I remember some charts that compared efficiency between
> various propulsion systems. Rocket engines were the absolute worst.
> Internal combustion reciprocating engines were also up there as well. Then
> came pure jet engines, gas burning turbines with gearboxes, and similar
> critters, then wood fired steam boilers that supplied reciprocating motors
> (locomotives) followed by different types of fuel for the boilers, then on
> to single stage steam turbine engines, followed by multi-stage steam
> turbines. Very high on the list was nuclear reactors heating steam for
> multi-stage turbines. When used in linear applications, like propeller
> shafts in water, their efficiency was unsurpassed.
> It would take one extremely developed D.C. motor powered by batteries
> to surpass the last one. No comparison was made with regards to safety or
> development costs.
> Jim Hupy
>
>
> On Sat, May 25, 2019, 2:07 PM Matt Colie via Gmclist <

>

>>> Matt, can't agree. Electric resistance heat is substantially less
>> efficient than a heat pump - where the temperature allows the heat pump to
>>> operate. Electircally moving heat about is substantuially less expensive
>> than turning electricity directly into heat. Even when you consider the
>>> cost of the equipment (the heat pump wants a compressor, evaporator,
>> etc, whleh strip heat needs only an inexpensive resistance wire).
>>>
>>> ==johnny
>>
>> Johnny,
>>
>> I agree with the first half of your first line, but it ends at the second
>> half of that line because operating temperature window is so small.
>>
>> People need heat most when OAT gets below 40°F. Heat Pumps that are
>> working from air essentially become useless below about there.
>> So, if Teslas has heat pumps for cab heat, they would still need
>> resistance heating.
>>
>> Even trying to run in the low 40s, residential heat pumps have to be
>> equipped with "flash heaters" that come on and fire a burst of heat to
>> defrost
>> the evaporator during low temperature operation.
>>
>> Matt
>> --
>> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
>> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
>> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
>> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Jim

My comment had to do with fast charging current battery technologies.

A Tesla on 120kw charge has more than 20 hp of fans to keep the batteries from overheating.

It also sounds like it’s ready for takeoff.

Charge batteries fast and you create heat that must be dealt with.

Dolph Santorine

DE AD0LF

Wheeling, West Virginia

1977 ex-Palm Beach TZE167V100820
Howell EFI/EBL , Reaction Arms, Manny Transmission

>
> Hmmmmm! Let me ponder all this a bit. If heat is created during use, and
> serves no purpose other than keeping Orca's warm, it must be accounted for
> on the inefficiencies of the ledger. Kinda like exhaust gasses on an
> internal combustion engine. Same with cooling system.
> It has been a very long time since I studied thermodynamics in
> classes, but I remember some charts that compared efficiency between
> various propulsion systems. Rocket engines were the absolute worst.
> Internal combustion reciprocating engines were also up there as well. Then
> came pure jet engines, gas burning turbines with gearboxes, and similar
> critters, then wood fired steam boilers that supplied reciprocating motors
> (locomotives) followed by different types of fuel for the boilers, then on
> to single stage steam turbine engines, followed by multi-stage steam
> turbines. Very high on the list was nuclear reactors heating steam for
> multi-stage turbines. When used in linear applications, like propeller
> shafts in water, their efficiency was unsurpassed.
> It would take one extremely developed D.C. motor powered by batteries
> to surpass the last one. No comparison was made with regards to safety or
> development costs.
> Jim Hupy
>
>
> On Sat, May 25, 2019, 2:07 PM Matt Colie via Gmclist <

>

>>> Matt, can't agree. Electric resistance heat is substantially less
>> efficient than a heat pump - where the temperature allows the heat pump to
>>> operate. Electircally moving heat about is substantuially less expensive
>> than turning electricity directly into heat. Even when you consider the
>>> cost of the equipment (the heat pump wants a compressor, evaporator,
>> etc, whleh strip heat needs only an inexpensive resistance wire).
>>>
>>> ==johnny
>>
>> Johnny,
>>
>> I agree with the first half of your first line, but it ends at the second
>> half of that line because operating temperature window is so small.
>>
>> People need heat most when OAT gets below 40°F. Heat Pumps that are
>> working from air essentially become useless below about there.
>> So, if Teslas has heat pumps for cab heat, they would still need
>> resistance heating.
>>
>> Even trying to run in the low 40s, residential heat pumps have to be
>> equipped with "flash heaters" that come on and fire a burst of heat to
>> defrost
>> the evaporator during low temperature operation.
>>
>> Matt
>> --
>> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
>> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
>> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
>> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Nuclear? I like it!

Dolph Santorine

DE AD0LF

Wheeling, West Virginia

1977 ex-Palm Beach TZE167V100820
Howell EFI/EBL , Reaction Arms, Manny Transmission

>
> Then obviously we should be investigating converting our GMCs to nuclear power instead of wasting our time discussing conversion to battery power.
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Frederick, CO
>

>>
>> Hmmmmm! Let me ponder all this a bit. If heat is created during use, and
>> serves no purpose other than keeping Orca's warm, it must be accounted for
>> on the inefficiencies of the ledger. Kinda like exhaust gasses on an
>> internal combustion engine. Same with cooling system.
>> It has been a very long time since I studied thermodynamics in
>> classes, but I remember some charts that compared efficiency between
>> various propulsion systems. Rocket engines were the absolute worst.
>> Internal combustion reciprocating engines were also up there as well. Then
>> came pure jet engines, gas burning turbines with gearboxes, and similar
>> critters, then wood fired steam boilers that supplied reciprocating motors
>> (locomotives) followed by different types of fuel for the boilers, then on
>> to single stage steam turbine engines, followed by multi-stage steam
>> turbines. Very high on the list was nuclear reactors heating steam for
>> multi-stage turbines. When used in linear applications, like propeller
>> shafts in water, their efficiency was unsurpassed.
>> It would take one extremely developed D.C. motor powered by batteries
>> to surpass the last one. No comparison was made with regards to safety or
>> development costs.
>> Jim Hupy
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 25, 2019, 2:07 PM Matt Colie via Gmclist <

>>

>>>> Matt, can't agree. Electric resistance heat is substantially less
>>> efficient than a heat pump - where the temperature allows the heat pump to
>>>> operate. Electircally moving heat about is substantuially less expensive
>>> than turning electricity directly into heat. Even when you consider the
>>>> cost of the equipment (the heat pump wants a compressor, evaporator,
>>> etc, whleh strip heat needs only an inexpensive resistance wire).
>>>>
>>>> ==johnny
>>>
>>> Johnny,
>>>
>>> I agree with the first half of your first line, but it ends at the second
>>> half of that line because operating temperature window is so small.
>>>
>>> People need heat most when OAT gets below 40°F. Heat Pumps that are
>>> working from air essentially become useless below about there.
>>> So, if Teslas has heat pumps for cab heat, they would still need
>>> resistance heating.
>>>
>>> Even trying to run in the low 40s, residential heat pumps have to be
>>> equipped with "flash heaters" that come on and fire a burst of heat to
>>> defrost
>>> the evaporator during low temperature operation.
>>>
>>> Matt
>>> --
>>> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
>>> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
>>> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
>>> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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I know a scientist named Doc Brown who can get you a Mr. Fusion. They generate 1.21 gigawatts. Just sayin’...

-Dave
1978 Transmode near Pittsburgh

>
> Then obviously we should be investigating converting our GMCs to nuclear power instead of wasting our time discussing conversion to battery power.
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Frederick, CO
>

>>
>> Hmmmmm! Let me ponder all this a bit. If heat is created during use, and
>> serves no purpose other than keeping Orca's warm, it must be accounted for
>> on the inefficiencies of the ledger. Kinda like exhaust gasses on an
>> internal combustion engine. Same with cooling system.
>> It has been a very long time since I studied thermodynamics in
>> classes, but I remember some charts that compared efficiency between
>> various propulsion systems. Rocket engines were the absolute worst.
>> Internal combustion reciprocating engines were also up there as well. Then
>> came pure jet engines, gas burning turbines with gearboxes, and similar
>> critters, then wood fired steam boilers that supplied reciprocating motors
>> (locomotives) followed by different types of fuel for the boilers, then on
>> to single stage steam turbine engines, followed by multi-stage steam
>> turbines. Very high on the list was nuclear reactors heating steam for
>> multi-stage turbines. When used in linear applications, like propeller
>> shafts in water, their efficiency was unsurpassed.
>> It would take one extremely developed D.C. motor powered by batteries
>> to surpass the last one. No comparison was made with regards to safety or
>> development costs.
>> Jim Hupy
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 25, 2019, 2:07 PM Matt Colie via Gmclist <

>>

>>>> Matt, can't agree. Electric resistance heat is substantially less
>>> efficient than a heat pump - where the temperature allows the heat pump to
>>>> operate. Electircally moving heat about is substantuially less expensive
>>> than turning electricity directly into heat. Even when you consider the
>>>> cost of the equipment (the heat pump wants a compressor, evaporator,
>>> etc, whleh strip heat needs only an inexpensive resistance wire).
>>>>
>>>> ==johnny
>>>
>>> Johnny,
>>>
>>> I agree with the first half of your first line, but it ends at the second
>>> half of that line because operating temperature window is so small.
>>>
>>> People need heat most when OAT gets below 40°F. Heat Pumps that are
>>> working from air essentially become useless below about there.
>>> So, if Teslas has heat pumps for cab heat, they would still need
>>> resistance heating.
>>>
>>> Even trying to run in the low 40s, residential heat pumps have to be
>>> equipped with "flash heaters" that come on and fire a burst of heat to
>>> defrost
>>> the evaporator during low temperature operation.
>>>
>>> Matt
>>> --
>>> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
>>> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
>>> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
>>> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
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>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> I know a scientist named Doc Brown who can get you a Mr. Fusion. They generate 1.21 gigawatts. Just sayin'...
>
> -Dave
> 1978 Transmode near Pittsburgh

Dave,

Doc Brown has to go into the future to get the Mr. Fusion. He was not very specific about just how far that was. I am not sure where he and his time
traveling locomotive are just now.

Unfortunately, the neclear/thermal devices used to power extra solar probes are not great at power generation.

I want the ZMP featured in the Stargate series. It used a quantum black hole and had no persistent ionizing radiation and they powered a lot of
stuff.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit