Excellent post mark. I sent an e-mail to loctite and asked the following:
We have a large club of owners of the classic GMC Motorhome, about 3800
members. General Motors stopped making the motorhomes in 1978, and as a
result many are now replacing the upper and lower ball joints on the front
suspension. This is a front wheel drive motorhome based on the Oldsmobile
Toronado drive train. The factory installation of the ball joints was made
with rivets. The new ones are bolted in their place.
Many are having problems with the bolted in ball joints working loose,
resulting in cracked a-frames and failure of the front suspension.
I have selected loctite 271 High strength for the ball joint bolts. There
are some in the club that are using loctite green bonding adhesives.
Would it be possible to use the bonding agent between the ball joint flange
and the face of the a-frame thereby bonding the two together, and than
coating the bolts with loctite 271 for additional security?
If this procedure is advised, how does one undo the bonding between the
metals at a later date if replacement is necessary.
Thanks for you help.
Thomas G. Warner
3692 Hogan Road
Vernon Center, NY 13477
315-829-3398
>Arch, Emry and Tom --
>
>I'd never heard of a Loctite product like Arch describes, so I went to the
>site http:www.loctite.com to see what I could find.
>
>Note: We're not getting the spelling right. There is no "K" in Loctite. I
>first went to locktite.com, which is a garage band near Madison, Wisconsin.
>I presume they got their name from some unfortunate incident the group has
>had with cheese.
>Probably nothing a good dose of Leinenkugel's wouldn't cure.
>
>Anyway, first I searched for green loctite. I found
>http://www.loctite.com/catalog/product.html?ProductLine AAM290
>Which is green locktite. They call it a 'wicking threadlocker' to be used=
on
>pre-assembled parts.
>
>I'd always used
>http://www.loctite.com/catalog/product.html?ProductLine 270
>Which is red maximum strength threadlocker. You put it on and then put your
>stuff together.
>
>There is also
>http://www.loctite.com/catalog/product.html?ProductLine 277
>Which is designed for larger bolts, up to 1=BD in diameter (36mm CAN)
>
>Based on the information at this site, I thought I'd found the real answer.
>The search for 'Ball joints' as an application was recommended to be best
>secured with
>http://www.loctite.com/catalog/product.html?ProductLine 262
>This is a permanent strength product.
>
>I think permanent sounds like a stronger word than maximum, don't you? I
>keep forgetting we're in the '90s, where "shocking" and "deplorable" are=
set
>aside with "contrition" and "apology".
>
>Then, I thought to myself... what would Arch do? Heck, I already knew.
>He'd do more research, find out the real facts. The truth is out there!
>
>I burrowed around on the loctite site, then I found the product
>specifications. They are in .pdf format, so I don't know if you can get=
them
>through AOL unless you download them, then get the Adobe Acrobat reader to
>open them up. In any event, these are the numbers:
>
>Product breakaway torque range (typical)
>290 (green) 20 to 150 pound inches
>262 (red) 125 to 250 pound inches
>270 (red) 140 to 320 pound inches
>271 (red) 150 to 350 pound inches
>
>Note 1: 290 is green in color, but shown in a red bottle.
>
>Note 2: 262 has this description: "Loctite Product 262 is a single=
component
>anaerobic threadlocking material, which is thixotropic and develops medium
>to high strength. The product cures when confined in the absence of air
>between close fitting metal surfaces.
>
>Note 3: 270 is the same as 262 but: "...[t]hreadlocking material, which
>develops high strength."
>
>Note 4: Tom Warner just posted this info: "General rule is that
>threadlockers are red bottle, and bonding agents are green." Based on what=
I
>found, Loctite uses color to differentiate something else, perhaps bonding
>strength, since they also make a green threadlocker (product 290).
>
>While I was writing this up, Tom made such a good post that I don't know if
>this still has value, but I'm going to finish it.
>
>Even with all this, and in reading Tom's post, this still didn't seem quite
>right. Arch said that the product wasn't a threadlocker, and that it was
>part number 640. The Loctite search engine turned up nothing for 640,=
so....
>
>I tried the product locator, found:
>
>http://www.loctite.com/catalog/product.html?ProductLine AAM660
>Which is a quick metal press fit repair. This is a "urethane methacrylate
>grey paste... used to bond cylindrical fitting parts.. where the bond gap
>can approach 0.50mm. Typical applications include restoring correct fits on
>worn shafts, spun bearings, and damaged keyways. ...This product possesses
>excellent gap cure characteristics."
>
>Still not part number 640, and sure not a green fluorescent jel. Tried the
>old part number in the cross reference search tool. Bingo!
>
>One new part number with higher performance characteristics is 648. See
>also:
>http://www.loctite.com/catalog/product.html?ProductLine AAM640
>The data sheet for this product would seem to be more closely suited to the
>front bearing application (if that's what you're considering it for) since=
i
>t has more 'shear' holding power and is good for up to 350=B0 operation.
>
>Arch's original part number isn't available by search, but I found you can
>go there if you manually enter the URL:
>http://www.loctite.com/catalog/product.html?ProductLine 648
>if you want. You'll note there is no tech info sheet available for this
>product. I even tried to FTP the sheet and it isn't' there.
>
>Based on this research, I'd agree with Tom that we should be using Loctite=
=A9
>271 on the front end ball joint bolts and nuts. Arch suggests using 640 on
>the bolts themselves, which may also make sense if the bolt itself is loose
>in the hole. I think I used self locking nuts *and* Product 270 on mine. I
>plan to remove them with a smoke wrench. No glowing goop in a bottle can
>resist Mr. Torch when its time for new ones!
>
>Whatever you decide, it would seem that you need to do something,
>particularly since a number of folks have indicated that these components
>tend to work loose after installation.
>
>I'll yield the balance of my time to the floor for comments and continued
>discussion.
>
>Mark
>
>'77K
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-gmcmotorhome
>> [mailto
wner-gmcmotorhome]On Behalf Of Gcbr
>> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 1999 8:19 AM
>> To: gmcmotorhome
>> Subject: Re: GMC: Ball Joints
>>
>>
>> Emery and Tom
>>
>> I want to be very careful here! I do not want to start a new myth!
>> Locktite Green is NOT a thread locker! Locktite Green is for taking
>> up space. I had never heard of it until I did the front wheel bearings
>> on my LeSharo. The fit is so poor that the bearing just slides on to
>> the axle by hand. The factory manual says to install the bearings
>> with Locktite Green. I was very impressed with how hard it was to
>> get the old bearings off when I saw how easy the new ones went on.
>> When we were putting the ball joints on the GMC there was a tiny
>> bit of play with the bolts dropped through the holes. It seemed to me
>> that there was some space that needed to be taken up. I put the
>> Locktite Green around the bolts where they went through the arms
>> and the ball joints. There may be some on the threads but that was
>> not where I put it. Please I dont want to start my own myth!
>>
>> Take Care
>> Arch 76 GB IL
>>
>
>
>
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach
We have a large club of owners of the classic GMC Motorhome, about 3800
members. General Motors stopped making the motorhomes in 1978, and as a
result many are now replacing the upper and lower ball joints on the front
suspension. This is a front wheel drive motorhome based on the Oldsmobile
Toronado drive train. The factory installation of the ball joints was made
with rivets. The new ones are bolted in their place.
Many are having problems with the bolted in ball joints working loose,
resulting in cracked a-frames and failure of the front suspension.
I have selected loctite 271 High strength for the ball joint bolts. There
are some in the club that are using loctite green bonding adhesives.
Would it be possible to use the bonding agent between the ball joint flange
and the face of the a-frame thereby bonding the two together, and than
coating the bolts with loctite 271 for additional security?
If this procedure is advised, how does one undo the bonding between the
metals at a later date if replacement is necessary.
Thanks for you help.
Thomas G. Warner
3692 Hogan Road
Vernon Center, NY 13477
315-829-3398
>Arch, Emry and Tom --
>
>I'd never heard of a Loctite product like Arch describes, so I went to the
>site http:www.loctite.com to see what I could find.
>
>Note: We're not getting the spelling right. There is no "K" in Loctite. I
>first went to locktite.com, which is a garage band near Madison, Wisconsin.
>I presume they got their name from some unfortunate incident the group has
>had with cheese.
>Probably nothing a good dose of Leinenkugel's wouldn't cure.
>
>Anyway, first I searched for green loctite. I found
>http://www.loctite.com/catalog/product.html?ProductLine AAM290
>Which is green locktite. They call it a 'wicking threadlocker' to be used=
on
>pre-assembled parts.
>
>I'd always used
>http://www.loctite.com/catalog/product.html?ProductLine 270
>Which is red maximum strength threadlocker. You put it on and then put your
>stuff together.
>
>There is also
>http://www.loctite.com/catalog/product.html?ProductLine 277
>Which is designed for larger bolts, up to 1=BD in diameter (36mm CAN)
>
>Based on the information at this site, I thought I'd found the real answer.
>The search for 'Ball joints' as an application was recommended to be best
>secured with
>http://www.loctite.com/catalog/product.html?ProductLine 262
>This is a permanent strength product.
>
>I think permanent sounds like a stronger word than maximum, don't you? I
>keep forgetting we're in the '90s, where "shocking" and "deplorable" are=
set
>aside with "contrition" and "apology".
>
>Then, I thought to myself... what would Arch do? Heck, I already knew.
>He'd do more research, find out the real facts. The truth is out there!
>
>I burrowed around on the loctite site, then I found the product
>specifications. They are in .pdf format, so I don't know if you can get=
them
>through AOL unless you download them, then get the Adobe Acrobat reader to
>open them up. In any event, these are the numbers:
>
>Product breakaway torque range (typical)
>290 (green) 20 to 150 pound inches
>262 (red) 125 to 250 pound inches
>270 (red) 140 to 320 pound inches
>271 (red) 150 to 350 pound inches
>
>Note 1: 290 is green in color, but shown in a red bottle.
>
>Note 2: 262 has this description: "Loctite Product 262 is a single=
component
>anaerobic threadlocking material, which is thixotropic and develops medium
>to high strength. The product cures when confined in the absence of air
>between close fitting metal surfaces.
>
>Note 3: 270 is the same as 262 but: "...[t]hreadlocking material, which
>develops high strength."
>
>Note 4: Tom Warner just posted this info: "General rule is that
>threadlockers are red bottle, and bonding agents are green." Based on what=
I
>found, Loctite uses color to differentiate something else, perhaps bonding
>strength, since they also make a green threadlocker (product 290).
>
>While I was writing this up, Tom made such a good post that I don't know if
>this still has value, but I'm going to finish it.
>
>Even with all this, and in reading Tom's post, this still didn't seem quite
>right. Arch said that the product wasn't a threadlocker, and that it was
>part number 640. The Loctite search engine turned up nothing for 640,=
so....
>
>I tried the product locator, found:
>
>http://www.loctite.com/catalog/product.html?ProductLine AAM660
>Which is a quick metal press fit repair. This is a "urethane methacrylate
>grey paste... used to bond cylindrical fitting parts.. where the bond gap
>can approach 0.50mm. Typical applications include restoring correct fits on
>worn shafts, spun bearings, and damaged keyways. ...This product possesses
>excellent gap cure characteristics."
>
>Still not part number 640, and sure not a green fluorescent jel. Tried the
>old part number in the cross reference search tool. Bingo!
>
>One new part number with higher performance characteristics is 648. See
>also:
>http://www.loctite.com/catalog/product.html?ProductLine AAM640
>The data sheet for this product would seem to be more closely suited to the
>front bearing application (if that's what you're considering it for) since=
i
>t has more 'shear' holding power and is good for up to 350=B0 operation.
>
>Arch's original part number isn't available by search, but I found you can
>go there if you manually enter the URL:
>http://www.loctite.com/catalog/product.html?ProductLine 648
>if you want. You'll note there is no tech info sheet available for this
>product. I even tried to FTP the sheet and it isn't' there.
>
>Based on this research, I'd agree with Tom that we should be using Loctite=
=A9
>271 on the front end ball joint bolts and nuts. Arch suggests using 640 on
>the bolts themselves, which may also make sense if the bolt itself is loose
>in the hole. I think I used self locking nuts *and* Product 270 on mine. I
>plan to remove them with a smoke wrench. No glowing goop in a bottle can
>resist Mr. Torch when its time for new ones!
>
>Whatever you decide, it would seem that you need to do something,
>particularly since a number of folks have indicated that these components
>tend to work loose after installation.
>
>I'll yield the balance of my time to the floor for comments and continued
>discussion.
>
>Mark
>
>'77K
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-gmcmotorhome
>> [mailto
wner-gmcmotorhome]On Behalf Of Gcbr>> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 1999 8:19 AM
>> To: gmcmotorhome
>> Subject: Re: GMC: Ball Joints
>>
>>
>> Emery and Tom
>>
>> I want to be very careful here! I do not want to start a new myth!
>> Locktite Green is NOT a thread locker! Locktite Green is for taking
>> up space. I had never heard of it until I did the front wheel bearings
>> on my LeSharo. The fit is so poor that the bearing just slides on to
>> the axle by hand. The factory manual says to install the bearings
>> with Locktite Green. I was very impressed with how hard it was to
>> get the old bearings off when I saw how easy the new ones went on.
>> When we were putting the ball joints on the GMC there was a tiny
>> bit of play with the bolts dropped through the holes. It seemed to me
>> that there was some space that needed to be taken up. I put the
>> Locktite Green around the bolts where they went through the arms
>> and the ball joints. There may be some on the threads but that was
>> not where I put it. Please I dont want to start my own myth!
>>
>> Take Care
>> Arch 76 GB IL
>>
>
>
>
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach
