DuraCool at home

So you would have to recover or somehow make room for HC22 by removing expensive R22 to try to gain efficiency that might be measured in pennies? If
your pressures are correct according to the tables on a given weather day, leave it alone.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
 
> So you would have to recover or somehow make room for HC22 by removing expensive R22 to try to gain efficiency that might be measured in pennies?
> If your pressures are correct according to the tables on a given weather day, leave it alone.

Electrical consumption has been documented as 10 - 20% lower with HC22 vs R22. A shame it is illegal in residential central AC systems, as it would
make a significant difference in efficiency. That's real dollars, not pennies.

I considered charging one of mine illegally myself when it ran low of R22 a few years ago. But I came to the conclusion that the next time it is
worked on might be under a new owner, and a technician could end up contaminating a lot of R22 when he recovers the stuff into his recovery tank.

So I paid $200 for the pound or two of R22 and labor to inject it.
 
Buzkin how bad is your power bill mine is around $50 or$60 a month lately but should be $100 or so this month as it has been a hundred degrees the
past 2 weeks. My 30 year old 5 ton unit doesn't run continuesly and the house is 3,000 square feet . You should have good insulation and dual pane
Windows too keep the cool air where it belongs. Also a good digital thermostat set around 78 degrees is helpful. Is your liquid line not hot but warm
too the touch? The suction line should be cool and a little sweaty. The air temperature difference before and after the evaporate coil should be
around 21 or 22 degrees if it is much colder you may have a dirty coil if not as much TD you may be low on charge? R22 is a good refrigerant I'm
sorry I sold the extra 400 lbs I had when I retired for only $100 20 years ago cause now I'm out of it.
--
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
 
Good tips/info

I will check the line-sets in the heat of the afternoon. Do have a good wifi stat, Ecobee3

I live in a 65 year old home that is not very tight.

Electric bills in summer run $400 to $500 per month.

Thx
--
Bukzin
1977 Palm Beach
 
The NEST thermostat I installed in my house appears to be reducing electrical energy usage. Happy with it. Should pay for it's cost within the next
few months.
I also installed a hybrid heat pump hot water heater. The ROI is about four years, but target is $130 per year vs $450.
Considered geothermal, but local real estate appraisers that I called had no idea even what the question was. Maybe if I was about 20 years younger.
Our projected electrical costs are estimated to double due to closing of coal fired power plants. Natural gas is coming, but dates years) are
uncertain.
Non GMC, but still interesting. Looking for the elusive flux capacitor.
Tom, MS II
--
1975 GMC Avion
KA4CSG
 
> Good tips/info
> I will check the line-sets in the heat of the afternoon. Do have a good wifi stat, Ecobee3
>
> I live in a 65 year old home that is not very tight.
>
> Electric bills in summer run $400 to $500 per month.
>
> Thx

It sounds like you are still contemplating replacing the R22 in your residential HVAC system with hydrocarbon-based refrigerant.

Besides being illegal, you also have to consider the possibility that, sometime in the future, a technician will recover your propane into his R22
tank, contaminating what could be a quite a bit of R22.

Don't do it. It would save you some real dollars, but don't do it.
 
Gee if your house is 65 years old that would put it at around a 1952 year construction. Very few houses were built then with air conditioning in mind.
Most had no insulation in the walls and very little in the attic also non under the floors. The windows were also single pane. If this is the case you
would need to replace the Windows with double pane I replaced my original aluminum frame double pane Windows with vinyl frame low E double pane
Windows myself that I got from Home Depot .This did help a bit as the low E glass blocked the hot Suns rays from coming thru the glass. If you don't
have insulation you can get it blown into the walls and ceiling area and put batting under the floors. At $400 plus a month electric it should be
worth the trouble and expense if you plan to stay there. I don't know how big a house you have or the a/c size but it probably isn't bigger then mine
or you would have multiple units for sure. I am in northern Nevada probibly 150 miles east of you so my summers probibly aren't to deferent from yours
except for elevation. Just a thought to help you keep the cool air in and hot air out . Works well in winter too.
--
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
 
On that note---do you have an attic fan to keep attic temps more reasonable? That would make a much bigger improvement than changing refrigerants.
Made huge differences in my last two houses. The best atic fans are jetfan, made in USA sealed motors and balanced blades and spun aluminum housings.
They have low Amp draw and thermostats and humidistats
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
 
> On that note---do you have an attic fan to keep attic temps more reasonable? That would make a much bigger improvement than changing
> refrigerants. Made huge differences in my last two houses. The best atic fans are jetfan, made in USA sealed motors and balanced blades and spun
> aluminum housings. They have low Amp draw and thermostats and humidistats

John, that brand of fans sound excellent, did not know about it.

In our part of California the summer nights often do not cool down at night.
The other night it was 90 at midnight.

With those high temps a attic {whole house} fan is not a huge help.
I do use mine around dawn but the impact, in my case, is low.

--
Bukzin
1977 Palm Beach
 
If you can get the attic down to 95 at night that is at the thermostat shut off point and way down from 140 or so it would be at dusk. I think the
model 727 only draws 3 Amps @ 125V.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
 
Lessee... 500 a month is 6 Large a year. Which makes me think insulating the hell out of the place would opay out in 5 years or less. 15,000 on
insulating if ity gave a half price power bill would pay out in 5. And there might be a tax break for costs of insulation.

--johnny
--
76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
 
Don't confuse a whole house fan with an attic ventilator fan. Both are good but different. In hot areas you want an attic ventilator such as a Jetfan
727 to work in concert with your aircond by tempering sky high attic temps. Whole house is good when temps are cool off outside to remove interior
heat in a hurry. Both cool the attic and having an attic fan also provides another exit vent path for the whole house fan.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
 
To John L.:
So, if you had to choose between the two - which would you choose and why?
Mike/The Corvair a holic
Peoria, IL.

Sent from my iPhone

>
> Don't confuse a whole house fan with an attic ventilator fan. Both are good but different. In hot areas you want an attic ventilator such as a Jetfan
> 727 to work in concert with your aircond by tempering sky high attic temps. Whole house is good when temps are cool off outside to remove interior
> heat in a hurry. Both cool the attic and having an attic fan also provides another exit vent path for the whole house fan.
> --
> John Lebetski
> Woodstock, IL
> 77 Eleganza II
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Mike, around here they usually build houses with multiple roof vents that passively move heat out of the attic to the outside while pulling in cooler
fresh air in vents cut in the soffits. I think I have about 8 of them in the roof. An attic vent fan does the same as the roof vent only under
power to possibly move more air. I do not know how they build house vents out west but I would assume they are similar. If it is a peaked roof they
some times put the roof vents in the ends of the house near the peaks.

A whole house vent fan draws air from inside the house and exhausts it into the attic or direct outside. That is an entirely different animal.
Around here it is not very beneficial because when it is hot it is also usually very humid. So drawing air in also drags in a lot of humidity.

--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
Around here the run a linear vent along the ridge line. Keeps the attic under 100 usually. Easily installed when the roof's being replaced and
inexpensive.

--johnny
--
76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
 
> Around here the run a linear vent along the ridge line. Keeps the attic under 100 usually. Easily installed when the roof's being replaced and
> inexpensive.
>
> --johnny

Johnny

In 2010 Georgia building specs no longer allowed powered attic exhaust fans (except solar) for new construction. Studies found that power fans cool
attics mostly by pulling cooled ac air through the various leak points in the ceiling. Passive ridge vents are great if the home has enough ridge
length. Lots of homes also have inadequate soffit venting. The continues vent seems the best but they can get restricted by too heavy paint
application.

I've installed a radiant barrier (reflective material) on the underside of our roof rafters and it has substantially lowered our attic temps.

For new construction they sell a plywood with reflective barrier attached to the back.

Dennis

--
Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
 
A couple of years ago when my ashvault shingle roof was replaced they added half a dozen small vents at the ridge to comply with current code.
--
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
 
The trend is away from mushroom vents and toward ridge vents in new construction. The ridge vents are then filled with a strip of open cell foam to
keep bugs and blown rain out. They are then very compromised at venting a usable amount of air. My house has full perimeter eve vents and a full ridge
vent but attic was scorching until I put in 2 attic fans (2 required due to attic volume but on one stat). Now the cool air enters at the eves and
exhausts at fans at top. Jeff the fan man says he sees this all the time with ridge vents where the attic is unbearable. They look like they would
convection flow well but do not. My cooling bills are way down. My suggestion is stay away from home center fans even Broan as the first hail storm
ruins the plastic cover and the motors only last a few seasons. Once the open frame motors pick up dust and dirt they overheat.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
 
To help with the hot attic, I added a solar-powered attic fan from Costco. You can barely hear it run, but when the sun is shining, it is moving air.
Lots of hot Summer days here in lower Alabama.
Ridge vents would be nice, but builder just installed attic fan with eve vents
Tom, MS II
--
1975 GMC Avion
KA4CSG
 
My house has ridge vents, but not open-cell foam, which would last long
enough. Mine were installed with an expanded metal screen to keep out bugs,
and I've never had a problem with rain (or snow, for that matter).

Temps in my attic are not that hot, but my house also has sizeable gable
vents.

Current trends are driven by cost engineering, but one can specify better
materials.

Rick "the powered fan was removed 25 years ago" Denney

On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 9:54 AM John R. Lebetski
wrote:

> The trend is away from mushroom vents and toward ridge vents in new
> construction. The ridge vents are then filled with a strip of open cell
> foam to
> keep bugs and blown rain out. They are then very compromised at venting a
> usable amount of air. My house has full perimeter eve vents and a full ridge
> vent but attic was scorching until I put in 2 attic fans (2 required due
> to attic volume but on one stat). Now the cool air enters at the eves and
> exhausts at fans at top. Jeff the fan man says he sees this all the time
> with ridge vents where the attic is unbearable. They look like they would
> convection flow well but do not. My cooling bills are way down. My
> suggestion is stay away from home center fans even Broan as the first hail
> storm
> ruins the plastic cover and the motors only last a few seasons. Once the
> open frame motors pick up dust and dirt they overheat.
> --
> John Lebetski
> Woodstock, IL
> 77 Eleganza II
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Rick Denney
73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
 
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