Drum brakes

[wally anderson]

> I seem to remember a long time ago reading about re-placing the rear brakes shoes with larger, wider shoes and drums. Using all stock GM stuff.
> Maybe from truck, van etc. Anyone have that knowledge stored anywhere in their gray matter? Thanks.....Tom

Tom Hampton at Grandview has wide shoe setups
http://www.grandviewmotorhome.com/partsupgrades.html
http://www.grandviewmotorhome.com/partsupgrades.html
--
Wally Anderson
Omaha NE
75 Glenbrook
Megasquirt III injection
Bob Stone hydroBOOOOST
Manny reaction arm system
Branscombe Kelsey Hayes park brake
http://wallyandsue.blogspot.com/

 

[Jim Hupy]

Think about a masseur walking up and down your back, barefoot. Got that?
Now think about the same person walking the same way, this time in stiletto
heels. Which would you prefer? Now, apply what you have learned from this
example to drum brake shoes. Wider ain't better.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403

> > I seem to remember a long time ago reading about re-placing the rear
> brakes shoes with larger, wider shoes and drums. Using all stock GM stuff.
> > Maybe from truck, van etc. Anyone have that knowledge stored anywhere
> in their gray matter? Thanks.....Tom
>
> Tom Hampton at Grandview has wide shoe setups
> http://www.grandviewmotorhome.com/partsupgrades.html
> http://www.grandviewmotorhome.com/partsupgrades.html
> --
> Wally Anderson
> Omaha NE
> 75 Glenbrook
> Megasquirt III injection
> Bob Stone hydroBOOOOST
> Manny reaction arm system
> Branscombe Kelsey Hayes park brake
> http://wallyandsue.blogspot.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

 

[emerystora]

What was I supposed to learn? Wider is better for pain in a message. How does this translate to “wider ain’t better” for brakes?

Yes, you have less pounds/ sq inch with wide shoes but you have more sq inches so the braking force is the same.

You should get less wear on the shoes though. Probably not enough to justify any additional cost.

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CA

>
> Think about a masseur walking up and down your back, barefoot. Got that?
> Now think about the same person walking the same way, this time in stiletto
> heels. Which would you prefer? Now, apply what you have learned from this
> example to drum brake shoes. Wider ain't better.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Or
> 78 GMC ROYALE 403
>

>>

>>> I seem to remember a long time ago reading about re-placing the rear
>> brakes shoes with larger, wider shoes and drums. Using all stock GM stuff.
>>> Maybe from truck, van etc. Anyone have that knowledge stored anywhere
>> in their gray matter? Thanks.....Tom
>>
>> Tom Hampton at Grandview has wide shoe setups
>> http://www.grandviewmotorhome.com/partsupgrades.html
>> http://www.grandviewmotorhome.com/partsupgrades.html
>> --
>> Wally Anderson
>> Omaha NE
>> 75 Glenbrook
>> Megasquirt III injection
>> Bob Stone hydroBOOOOST
>> Manny reaction arm system
>> Branscombe Kelsey Hayes park brake
>> http://wallyandsue.blogspot.com/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

 

[jim kanomata1]

From an purely engineering point, it is about the coefficient of friction
and not the area.
Having stated that, I have seen where the 3" shoes have improved the
braking.
Like anything, when you replace an old with new, it will do better.

> Think about a masseur walking up and down your back, barefoot. Got that?
> Now think about the same person walking the same way, this time in stiletto
> heels. Which would you prefer? Now, apply what you have learned from this
> example to drum brake shoes. Wider ain't better.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Or
> 78 GMC ROYALE 403
>

>

> > > I seem to remember a long time ago reading about re-placing the rear
> > brakes shoes with larger, wider shoes and drums. Using all stock GM
> stuff.
> > > Maybe from truck, van etc. Anyone have that knowledge stored anywhere
> > in their gray matter? Thanks.....Tom
> >
> > Tom Hampton at Grandview has wide shoe setups
> > http://www.grandviewmotorhome.com/partsupgrades.html
> > http://www.grandviewmotorhome.com/partsupgrades.html
> > --
> > Wally Anderson
> > Omaha NE
> > 75 Glenbrook
> > Megasquirt III injection
> > Bob Stone hydroBOOOOST
> > Manny reaction arm system
> > Branscombe Kelsey Hayes park brake
> > http://wallyandsue.blogspot.com/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502

 

[Jim Hupy]

Didn't want to get into the math, thought EVERYONE would get a visual image
of stiletto heels on their back.
Same amount of hydraulic pressure applied to a larger surface area,
results in less pressure per square inch. Less friction between the drum
and shoes. Does the increased shoe area at less pressure per square inch
equal less shoe area at the same pressure? You discuss that one. I think
that there is no advantage to more lining area at the same pressure. Wear
rate? If there is less friction, linings might not wear as quickly.
The whole deal with brakes is to convert kinetic energy into heat
energy. Simply put, rotors and calipers simply do a much better job of
that. Heat transfer to the airstream is better, too, so less chance of
brake fade in heavy use. Like motor homes equipped with car brakes.
I have installed Buick/Cadillac calipers with cable operated caliper
pistons on GMC'S for parking brakes. They will work, properly installed and
adjusted. And they meet D.O.T. regulations.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403

> What was I supposed to learn? Wider is better for pain in a message. How
> does this translate to “wider ain’t better” for brakes?
>
> Yes, you have less pounds/ sq inch with wide shoes but you have more sq
> inches so the braking force is the same.
>
> You should get less wear on the shoes though. Probably not enough to
> justify any additional cost.
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Frederick, CA
>

> >
> > Think about a masseur walking up and down your back, barefoot. Got that?
> > Now think about the same person walking the same way, this time in
> stiletto
> > heels. Which would you prefer? Now, apply what you have learned from
> this
> > example to drum brake shoes. Wider ain't better.
> > Jim Hupy
> > Salem, Or
> > 78 GMC ROYALE 403
> >
> >> On Feb 10, 2018 7:45 AM, "Wally Anderson"

> >>

> >>> I seem to remember a long time ago reading about re-placing the rear
> >> brakes shoes with larger, wider shoes and drums. Using all stock GM
> stuff.
> >>> Maybe from truck, van etc. Anyone have that knowledge stored anywhere
> >> in their gray matter? Thanks.....Tom
> >>
> >> Tom Hampton at Grandview has wide shoe setups
> >> http://www.grandviewmotorhome.com/partsupgrades.html
> >> http://www.grandviewmotorhome.com/partsupgrades.html
> >> --
> >> Wally Anderson
> >> Omaha NE
> >> 75 Glenbrook
> >> Megasquirt III injection
> >> Bob Stone hydroBOOOOST
> >> Manny reaction arm system
> >> Branscombe Kelsey Hayes park brake
> >> http://wallyandsue.blogspot.com/
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> GMCnet mailing list
> >> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

 

[jim kanomata1]

Once one understands how the GM caliper with the paarking brake functions,
like Jim H tates, they work.
Many years ago people stated that they could not get them to work,
After asking several, I ran int Walt Halley that said they do IF you know
what to do. Well, I had to chase him around for a whole day till he finally
showed me why others could not mak it work.
It requires short stud on the pad which prevents the piston from rotating.
Without this the caliper will not adjust and the braking become very poor.
John Bush and Rick Flanagan worked on the parking caliper system for us and
John came up with a simple and inexpensive solution which works.

> Didn't want to get into the math, thought EVERYONE would get a visual image
> of stiletto heels on their back.
> Same amount of hydraulic pressure applied to a larger surface area,
> results in less pressure per square inch. Less friction between the drum
> and shoes. Does the increased shoe area at less pressure per square inch
> equal less shoe area at the same pressure? You discuss that one. I think
> that there is no advantage to more lining area at the same pressure. Wear
> rate? If there is less friction, linings might not wear as quickly.
> The whole deal with brakes is to convert kinetic energy into heat
> energy. Simply put, rotors and calipers simply do a much better job of
> that. Heat transfer to the airstream is better, too, so less chance of
> brake fade in heavy use. Like motor homes equipped with car brakes.
> I have installed Buick/Cadillac calipers with cable operated caliper
> pistons on GMC'S for parking brakes. They will work, properly installed and
> adjusted. And they meet D.O.T. regulations.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Or
> 78 GMC ROYALE 403
>

>
> > What was I supposed to learn? Wider is better for pain in a message. How
> > does this translate to “wider ain’t better” for brakes?
> >
> > Yes, you have less pounds/ sq inch with wide shoes but you have more sq
> > inches so the braking force is the same.
> >
> > You should get less wear on the shoes though. Probably not enough to
> > justify any additional cost.
> >
> > Emery Stora
> > 77 Kingsley
> > Frederick, CA
> >

> > >
> > > Think about a masseur walking up and down your back, barefoot. Got
> that?
> > > Now think about the same person walking the same way, this time in
> > stiletto
> > > heels. Which would you prefer? Now, apply what you have learned from
> > this
> > > example to drum brake shoes. Wider ain't better.
> > > Jim Hupy
> > > Salem, Or
> > > 78 GMC ROYALE 403
> > >
> > >> On Feb 10, 2018 7:45 AM, "Wally Anderson"

> > >>

> > >>> I seem to remember a long time ago reading about re-placing the rear
> > >> brakes shoes with larger, wider shoes and drums. Using all stock GM
> > stuff.
> > >>> Maybe from truck, van etc. Anyone have that knowledge stored
> anywhere
> > >> in their gray matter? Thanks.....Tom
> > >>
> > >> Tom Hampton at Grandview has wide shoe setups
> > >> http://www.grandviewmotorhome.com/partsupgrades.html
> > >> http://www.grandviewmotorhome.com/partsupgrades.html
> > >> --
> > >> Wally Anderson
> > >> Omaha NE
> > >> 75 Glenbrook
> > >> Megasquirt III injection
> > >> Bob Stone hydroBOOOOST
> > >> Manny reaction arm system
> > >> Branscombe Kelsey Hayes park brake
> > >> http://wallyandsue.blogspot.com/
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> GMCnet mailing list
> > >> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > >> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502

 

[kingsley coach]

Let's take a moment here......" same person walking the same way, this time
in stiletto
heels "
James, what does she look like?

Mike in NS

On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 12:48 PM, Jim Kanomata
wrote:

> Once one understands how the GM caliper with the paarking brake functions,
> like Jim H tates, they work.
> Many years ago people stated that they could not get them to work,
> After asking several, I ran int Walt Halley that said they do IF you know
> what to do. Well, I had to chase him around for a whole day till he finally
> showed me why others could not mak it work.
> It requires short stud on the pad which prevents the piston from rotating.
> Without this the caliper will not adjust and the braking become very poor.
> John Bush and Rick Flanagan worked on the parking caliper system for us and
> John came up with a simple and inexpensive solution which works.
>
>
>
>

>
> > Didn't want to get into the math, thought EVERYONE would get a visual
> image
> > of stiletto heels on their back.
> > Same amount of hydraulic pressure applied to a larger surface area,
> > results in less pressure per square inch. Less friction between the drum
> > and shoes. Does the increased shoe area at less pressure per square inch
> > equal less shoe area at the same pressure? You discuss that one. I think
> > that there is no advantage to more lining area at the same pressure. Wear
> > rate? If there is less friction, linings might not wear as quickly.
> > The whole deal with brakes is to convert kinetic energy into heat
> > energy. Simply put, rotors and calipers simply do a much better job of
> > that. Heat transfer to the airstream is better, too, so less chance of
> > brake fade in heavy use. Like motor homes equipped with car brakes.
> > I have installed Buick/Cadillac calipers with cable operated caliper
> > pistons on GMC'S for parking brakes. They will work, properly installed
> and
> > adjusted. And they meet D.O.T. regulations.
> > Jim Hupy
> > Salem, Or
> > 78 GMC ROYALE 403
> >

> >
> > > What was I supposed to learn? Wider is better for pain in a message.
> How
> > > does this translate to “wider ain’t better” for brakes?
> > >
> > > Yes, you have less pounds/ sq inch with wide shoes but you have more sq
> > > inches so the braking force is the same.
> > >
> > > You should get less wear on the shoes though. Probably not enough to
> > > justify any additional cost.
> > >
> > > Emery Stora
> > > 77 Kingsley
> > > Frederick, CA
> > >
> > > > On Feb 10, 2018, at 8:51 AM, James Hupy

> > > >
> > > > Think about a masseur walking up and down your back, barefoot. Got
> > that?
> > > > Now think about the same person walking the same way, this time in
> > > stiletto
> > > > heels. Which would you prefer? Now, apply what you have learned from
> > > this
> > > > example to drum brake shoes. Wider ain't better.
> > > > Jim Hupy
> > > > Salem, Or
> > > > 78 GMC ROYALE 403
> > > >
> > > >> On Feb 10, 2018 7:45 AM, "Wally Anderson"

> > > >>

> > > >>> I seem to remember a long time ago reading about re-placing the
> rear
> > > >> brakes shoes with larger, wider shoes and drums. Using all stock GM
> > > stuff.
> > > >>> Maybe from truck, van etc. Anyone have that knowledge stored
> > anywhere
> > > >> in their gray matter? Thanks.....Tom
> > > >>
> > > >> Tom Hampton at Grandview has wide shoe setups
> > > >> http://www.grandviewmotorhome.com/partsupgrades.html
> > > >> http://www.grandviewmotorhome.com/partsupgrades.html
> > > >> --
> > > >> Wally Anderson
> > > >> Omaha NE
> > > >> 75 Glenbrook
> > > >> Megasquirt III injection
> > > >> Bob Stone hydroBOOOOST
> > > >> Manny reaction arm system
> > > >> Branscombe Kelsey Hayes park brake
> > > >> http://wallyandsue.blogspot.com/
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> GMCnet mailing list
> > > >> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > >> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
> jimk
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS

Life is too short to hold a grudge; slash some tires and call it even !

 

[Jim Hupy]

Hey, this is the Era of equal opportunity. I never said "she". Funny how
our minds work, eh. Oh what pleasant memories we create within ourselves.
(Grin)
Jim Hupy

> Let's take a moment here......" same person walking the same way, this time
> in stiletto
> heels "
> James, what does she look like?
>
> Mike in NS
>
> On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 12:48 PM, Jim Kanomata

>
> > Once one understands how the GM caliper with the paarking brake
> functions,
> > like Jim H tates, they work.
> > Many years ago people stated that they could not get them to work,
> > After asking several, I ran int Walt Halley that said they do IF you know
> > what to do. Well, I had to chase him around for a whole day till he
> finally
> > showed me why others could not mak it work.
> > It requires short stud on the pad which prevents the piston from
> rotating.
> > Without this the caliper will not adjust and the braking become very
> poor.
> > John Bush and Rick Flanagan worked on the parking caliper system for us
> and
> > John came up with a simple and inexpensive solution which works.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 8:26 AM, James Hupy

> >
> > > Didn't want to get into the math, thought EVERYONE would get a visual
> > image
> > > of stiletto heels on their back.
> > > Same amount of hydraulic pressure applied to a larger surface
> area,
> > > results in less pressure per square inch. Less friction between the
> drum
> > > and shoes. Does the increased shoe area at less pressure per square
> inch
> > > equal less shoe area at the same pressure? You discuss that one. I
> think
> > > that there is no advantage to more lining area at the same pressure.
> Wear
> > > rate? If there is less friction, linings might not wear as quickly.
> > > The whole deal with brakes is to convert kinetic energy into heat
> > > energy. Simply put, rotors and calipers simply do a much better job of
> > > that. Heat transfer to the airstream is better, too, so less chance of
> > > brake fade in heavy use. Like motor homes equipped with car brakes.
> > > I have installed Buick/Cadillac calipers with cable operated
> caliper
> > > pistons on GMC'S for parking brakes. They will work, properly installed
> > and
> > > adjusted. And they meet D.O.T. regulations.
> > > Jim Hupy
> > > Salem, Or
> > > 78 GMC ROYALE 403
> > >

> > >
> > > > What was I supposed to learn? Wider is better for pain in a message.
> > How
> > > > does this translate to “wider ain’t better” for brakes?
> > > >
> > > > Yes, you have less pounds/ sq inch with wide shoes but you have more
> sq
> > > > inches so the braking force is the same.
> > > >
> > > > You should get less wear on the shoes though. Probably not enough to
> > > > justify any additional cost.
> > > >
> > > > Emery Stora
> > > > 77 Kingsley
> > > > Frederick, CA
> > > >
> > > > > On Feb 10, 2018, at 8:51 AM, James Hupy

> > > > >
> > > > > Think about a masseur walking up and down your back, barefoot. Got
> > > that?
> > > > > Now think about the same person walking the same way, this time in
> > > > stiletto
> > > > > heels. Which would you prefer? Now, apply what you have learned
> from
> > > > this
> > > > > example to drum brake shoes. Wider ain't better.
> > > > > Jim Hupy
> > > > > Salem, Or
> > > > > 78 GMC ROYALE 403
> > > > >
> > > > >> On Feb 10, 2018 7:45 AM, "Wally Anderson"

> > > > >>

> > > > >>> I seem to remember a long time ago reading about re-placing the
> > rear
> > > > >> brakes shoes with larger, wider shoes and drums. Using all stock
> GM
> > > > stuff.
> > > > >>> Maybe from truck, van etc. Anyone have that knowledge stored
> > > anywhere
> > > > >> in their gray matter? Thanks.....Tom
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Tom Hampton at Grandview has wide shoe setups
> > > > >> http://www.grandviewmotorhome.com/partsupgrades.html
> > > > >> http://www.grandviewmotorhome.com/partsupgrades.html
> > > > >> --
> > > > >> Wally Anderson
> > > > >> Omaha NE
> > > > >> 75 Glenbrook
> > > > >> Megasquirt III injection
> > > > >> Bob Stone hydroBOOOOST
> > > > >> Manny reaction arm system
> > > > >> Branscombe Kelsey Hayes park brake
> > > > >> http://wallyandsue.blogspot.com/
> > > > >>
> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > >> GMCnet mailing list
> > > > >> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > > >> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > > > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jim Kanomata
> > Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
> > jimk
> > http://www.appliedgmc.com
> > 1-800-752-7502
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Michael Beaton
> 1977 Kingsley 26-11
> 1977 Eleganza II 26-3
> Antigonish, NS
>
> Life is too short to hold a grudge; slash some tires and call it even !
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

 

[Rdenney]

Jim, if *you* are wearing the stiletto heels, I don’t think we want to know
about it.

Rick “just sayin’” Denney

> Hey, this is the Era of equal opportunity. I never said "she". Funny how
> our minds work, eh. Oh what pleasant memories we create within ourselves.
> (Grin)
> Jim Hupy
>
--
Rick Denney
73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com

 

[johnny]

Basically, it's 'yes, no, and maybe.'
If the brake can lock the wheel it has sufficient power to stop whatever, eventually. Properly applying the brake is a differenny story. Discs
withstand heat way better than drums. Here it matters not... in the West in makes a difference.

The greatest improvement over stock is a reaction arm system.

--johnny

--
76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased

 

[Hal Kading]

Darn, now I'll have an image of Jim H in stiletto heels all day!
--
Hal Kading 1978 Buskirk 502 Las Cruces NM

 

[Jim Hupy]

Well, now I know who to avoid at the next rally! I had a minds eye picture
of something else entirely. Me in heels, that would be funny alright.
VBG.
Jim Hupy

> Darn, now I'll have an image of Jim H in stiletto heels all day!
> --
> Hal Kading 1978 Buskirk 502 Las Cruces NM
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

 

[Tom Pryor]

Yeah, its me again the guy that brings reaction arms to your rear wheels
without disturbing the hydraulics or the parking brake.

For my coach, a modified 23B that has only been driven about 5000 miles
mostly to Rapid City, SD and is now up on blocks in my garage here in Lake
Wales Fl. I am doing more mods and will share in future. Upon my return
from Rapid City to Florida, I had the fortune ( misfortune) to tailgate
Uncle Ken Henderson in his 23B with a Cadillac engine and all wheel disc
brakes and effective but legally questionable "line lock" parking brake.
Why questionable?.....sustained pressure on brake cylinder seals that were
designed to see only momentary duty. As Rob Mueller about his run away
coach experience.

That said, I was mostly able to keep up with him over hill and dale with
effective braking and acceleration. (note: 120k on my 455 with Caspro
power drive) My rear brakes were standard drum brakes with no reaction
arms at the time.

A couple years back when I visited Jim K in Calif I modified one of his
coaches with the following:

- INTERMEDIATE WHEELS were modified to use the GM3 caliper and yellow
pads. A GM3 caliper is the same 80MM caliper body used on the Front wheels
of our coaches. The intermediate wheel was fitted with a reaction arm.
- The rear wheels were also fitted with a reaction arm but remained as
stock configuration drum brake.
- PARKING BRAKE CABLES were modified to include pulleys at all
junction points. The dual cable that actuates the both rear and
intermediate brake shoes was abandoned. A new cable extension was
introduced that ONLY ACTUATES the rear wheel brake shoes.

I then tuned the parking brake to eliminate all "LASH" in the cable
system. I followed a very specific sequence and ended up using a 12"
extension on the PB lever to get it "OVER THE TOP"............ that
stretched the cable even more. I then released some tension at the top of
the parking brake handle to achieve a no drag condition on the rear brake
shoe. Jim & I then took the coach for a drive and skidded the
intermediate tire in some aggressive stops. we were both happy with the
service brake enhancement. note: With the reaction arm the rears skidded
also.

We then turned our attention to the Parking brake. I instructed Jim to
engage the parking brake, rock the coach front to rear. He took direction
well and then proceeded to drive off as many owners do with the parking
brake engaged. IT TOOK 3000 ENGINE RPM TO MOVE THE COACH. I told Jim at
the time with the transmission groaning, I could not see how even the
most inattentive owner could drive without releasing the parking brake.

Alas, I had to catch a plane back to Fl and no further assessment was done.

So with my coach being prepared for test launch this summer my Brake system
will consist of:

- new SS brake lines
- new Proportioning valve
- swap front to rear brake lines out of Master cylinder
- Front discs as original with yellow pads
- Intermediate with front disc calipers and discs.......yellow pads and
reaction arm.
- The rears will be stock drums and probably no reaction arm. I will
not plumb the rear wheel cylinder. The rear drums will function ONLY as a
parking brake. I have located some very aggressive brake shoe material
intended for aggressive holding power, not for service brakes use.

JWID.

BTW, Can anyone "report out" using the Chuck Algaur (sp?) intermediate
12" disc system and eliminating the rear drum to be used a parking brake
only?

Regards,

Tom Pryor
4188 Limerick Dr
Lake Wales, Fl 33859
Cell 248 470 9186

Living on a waterfront is not a matter of life or death. Its more
important than that.

 

[Rdenney]

You don’t need brakes to follow KenH. He never uses them.

Rick “who has also followed Ken” Denney

> Yeah, its me again the guy that brings reaction arms to your rear wheels
> without disturbing the hydraulics or the parking brake.
>
> For my coach, a modified 23B that has only been driven about 5000 miles
> mostly to Rapid City, SD and is now up on blocks in my garage here in Lake
> Wales Fl. I am doing more mods and will share in future. Upon my return
> from Rapid City to Florida, I had the fortune ( misfortune) to tailgate
> Uncle Ken Henderson in his 23B with a Cadillac engine and all wheel disc
> brakes and effective but legally questionable "line lock" parking brake.
> Why questionable?.....sustained pressure on brake cylinder seals that were
> designed to see only momentary duty. As Rob Mueller about his run away
> coach experience.
>
> That said, I was mostly able to keep up with him over hill and dale with
> effective braking and acceleration. (note: 120k on my 455 with Caspro
> power drive) My rear brakes were standard drum brakes with no reaction
> arms at the time.
>
--
Rick Denney
73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com

 

[Ken H.]

Come on now, you Guys! You're trying to make me sound like Jim K, Jr. I
don't speed. I just set the cruise control on the speed limit and leave
it there the rest of the day.

And it wasn't my fault you put the coach out of service, Tom!

(He really did keep up pretty well in the mountains -- sometimes.)

​Ken H.
​

> You don’t need brakes to follow KenH. He never uses them.
>
> Rick “who has also followed Ken” Denney
>
>

> ​...
> Upon my return
> > from Rapid City to Florida, I had the fortune ( misfortune) to tailgate
> > Uncle Ken Henderson in his 23B with a Cadillac engine and all wheel disc
> > brakes and effective but legally questionable "line lock" parking brake.
> >
> ​...
>

 

[robert mueller]

Tom,

"Ask Rob Mueller about his run away coach experience."

I don't remember a run away coach experience. I did have a P-10 master cylinder fail on our first tour but it was at low speed and I
was able to stop the coach and fix the problem by replacing the master cylinder.

Double Trouble came with 6 wheel disks; OEM on the front, Caddy disks on the middle / rear; and no parking / emergency brake. In
order to pass NJ inspection I had Ken Frey swap the rear disks for drums, hook up the cables, and install rebuilt 80mm calipers on
the front and middle calipers. I have been quite happy with the way it stops. So much so that's the braking system the Kingsley will
run.

The day before I took Double Trouble for inspection I adjusted the shoes and the brake cables and adjusted the knob on the end of
the brake lever to put the max tension on the cables. I watched the inspector strain to pull the parking brake on before he ran the
test and was very happy when it passed.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808


-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Thomas Pryor
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 7:51 AM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Drum brakes

Yeah, its me again the guy that brings reaction arms to your rear wheels
without disturbing the hydraulics or the parking brake.

For my coach, a modified 23B that has only been driven about 5000 miles
mostly to Rapid City, SD and is now up on blocks in my garage here in Lake
Wales Fl. I am doing more mods and will share in future. Upon my return
from Rapid City to Florida, I had the fortune ( misfortune) to tailgate
Uncle Ken Henderson in his 23B with a Cadillac engine and all wheel disc
brakes and effective but legally questionable "line lock" parking brake.
Why questionable?.....sustained pressure on brake cylinder seals that were
designed to see only momentary duty. As Rob Mueller about his run away
coach experience.

That said, I was mostly able to keep up with him over hill and dale with
effective braking and acceleration. (note: 120k on my 455 with Caspro
power drive) My rear brakes were standard drum brakes with no reaction
arms at the time.

A couple years back when I visited Jim K in Calif I modified one of his
coaches with the following:

- INTERMEDIATE WHEELS were modified to use the GM3 caliper and yellow
pads. A GM3 caliper is the same 80MM caliper body used on the Front wheels
of our coaches. The intermediate wheel was fitted with a reaction arm.
- The rear wheels were also fitted with a reaction arm but remained as
stock configuration drum brake.
- PARKING BRAKE CABLES were modified to include pulleys at all
junction points. The dual cable that actuates the both rear and
intermediate brake shoes was abandoned. A new cable extension was
introduced that ONLY ACTUATES the rear wheel brake shoes.

I then tuned the parking brake to eliminate all "LASH" in the cable
system. I followed a very specific sequence and ended up using a 12"
extension on the PB lever to get it "OVER THE TOP"............ that
stretched the cable even more. I then released some tension at the top of
the parking brake handle to achieve a no drag condition on the rear brake
shoe. Jim & I then took the coach for a drive and skidded the
intermediate tire in some aggressive stops. we were both happy with the
service brake enhancement. note: With the reaction arm the rears skidded
also.

We then turned our attention to the Parking brake. I instructed Jim to
engage the parking brake, rock the coach front to rear. He took direction
well and then proceeded to drive off as many owners do with the parking
brake engaged. IT TOOK 3000 ENGINE RPM TO MOVE THE COACH. I told Jim at
the time with the transmission groaning, I could not see how even the
most inattentive owner could drive without releasing the parking brake.

Alas, I had to catch a plane back to Fl and no further assessment was done.

So with my coach being prepared for test launch this summer my Brake system
will consist of:

- new SS brake lines
- new Proportioning valve
- swap front to rear brake lines out of Master cylinder
- Front discs as original with yellow pads
- Intermediate with front disc calipers and discs.......yellow pads and
reaction arm.
- The rears will be stock drums and probably no reaction arm. I will
not plumb the rear wheel cylinder. The rear drums will function ONLY as a
parking brake. I have located some very aggressive brake shoe material
intended for aggressive holding power, not for service brakes use.

JWID.

BTW, Can anyone "report out" using the Chuck Algaur (sp?) intermediate
12" disc system and eliminating the rear drum to be used a parking brake
only?

Regards,

Tom Pryor
4188 Limerick Dr
Lake Wales, Fl 33859
Cell 248 470 9186

Living on a waterfront is not a matter of life or death. Its more
important than that.
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

 

[Jim Hupy]

The best non factory emergency/parking brake I have seen on a coach was on
Chuck Algur's coach. It consisted of two triangular rubber blocks connected
by a right hand/left hand threaded electric actuator. It was installed
between the two rear tires vertically with the small ends of the triangles
facing towards each other. When the actuator operated, the blocks either
came closer to each other or further apart. When they came towards each
other, they wedged into the two rear tires, effectively preventing them
from moving. When I talked to Chuck about the setup, it was at the Western
States Rally at Auburn, California, and his system was in the prototype
stage. He said that it worked well as a parking brake, but he was working
out the best angle for the emergency brake function. He became Ill shortly
after that rally. I don't know if he ever fully developed the system or
not. You could not move the coach with the engine when it was set while
parked. Kinda like electric wheel chocks.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403

> Tom,
>
> "Ask Rob Mueller about his run away coach experience."
>
> I don't remember a run away coach experience. I did have a P-10 master
> cylinder fail on our first tour but it was at low speed and I
> was able to stop the coach and fix the problem by replacing the master
> cylinder.
>
> Double Trouble came with 6 wheel disks; OEM on the front, Caddy disks on
> the middle / rear; and no parking / emergency brake. In
> order to pass NJ inspection I had Ken Frey swap the rear disks for drums,
> hook up the cables, and install rebuilt 80mm calipers on
> the front and middle calipers. I have been quite happy with the way it
> stops. So much so that's the braking system the Kingsley will
> run.
>
> The day before I took Double Trouble for inspection I adjusted the shoes
> and the brake cables and adjusted the knob on the end of
> the brake lever to put the max tension on the cables. I watched the
> inspector strain to pull the parking brake on before he ran the
> test and was very happy when it passed.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> The Pedantic Mechanic
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of
> Thomas Pryor
> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 7:51 AM
> To: gmclist
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Drum brakes
>
> Yeah, its me again the guy that brings reaction arms to your rear wheels
> without disturbing the hydraulics or the parking brake.
>
> For my coach, a modified 23B that has only been driven about 5000 miles
> mostly to Rapid City, SD and is now up on blocks in my garage here in Lake
> Wales Fl. I am doing more mods and will share in future. Upon my return
> from Rapid City to Florida, I had the fortune ( misfortune) to tailgate
> Uncle Ken Henderson in his 23B with a Cadillac engine and all wheel disc
> brakes and effective but legally questionable "line lock" parking brake.
> Why questionable?.....sustained pressure on brake cylinder seals that were
> designed to see only momentary duty. As Rob Mueller about his run away
> coach experience.
>
> That said, I was mostly able to keep up with him over hill and dale with
> effective braking and acceleration. (note: 120k on my 455 with Caspro
> power drive) My rear brakes were standard drum brakes with no reaction
> arms at the time.
>
> A couple years back when I visited Jim K in Calif I modified one of his
> coaches with the following:
>
>
> - INTERMEDIATE WHEELS were modified to use the GM3 caliper and yellow
> pads. A GM3 caliper is the same 80MM caliper body used on the Front
> wheels
> of our coaches. The intermediate wheel was fitted with a reaction
> arm.
> - The rear wheels were also fitted with a reaction arm but remained as
> stock configuration drum brake.
> - PARKING BRAKE CABLES were modified to include pulleys at all
> junction points. The dual cable that actuates the both rear and
> intermediate brake shoes was abandoned. A new cable extension was
> introduced that ONLY ACTUATES the rear wheel brake shoes.
>
>
> I then tuned the parking brake to eliminate all "LASH" in the cable
> system. I followed a very specific sequence and ended up using a 12"
> extension on the PB lever to get it "OVER THE TOP"............ that
> stretched the cable even more. I then released some tension at the top of
> the parking brake handle to achieve a no drag condition on the rear brake
> shoe. Jim & I then took the coach for a drive and skidded the
> intermediate tire in some aggressive stops. we were both happy with the
> service brake enhancement. note: With the reaction arm the rears skidded
> also.
>
> We then turned our attention to the Parking brake. I instructed Jim to
> engage the parking brake, rock the coach front to rear. He took direction
> well and then proceeded to drive off as many owners do with the parking
> brake engaged. IT TOOK 3000 ENGINE RPM TO MOVE THE COACH. I told Jim at
> the time with the transmission groaning, I could not see how even the
> most inattentive owner could drive without releasing the parking brake.
>
> Alas, I had to catch a plane back to Fl and no further assessment was
> done.
>
> So with my coach being prepared for test launch this summer my Brake system
> will consist of:
>
>
> - new SS brake lines
> - new Proportioning valve
> - swap front to rear brake lines out of Master cylinder
> - Front discs as original with yellow pads
> - Intermediate with front disc calipers and discs.......yellow pads and
> reaction arm.
> - The rears will be stock drums and probably no reaction arm. I will
> not plumb the rear wheel cylinder. The rear drums will function ONLY
> as a
> parking brake. I have located some very aggressive brake shoe material
> intended for aggressive holding power, not for service brakes use.
>
>
> JWID.
>
> BTW, Can anyone "report out" using the Chuck Algaur (sp?) intermediate
> 12" disc system and eliminating the rear drum to be used a parking brake
> only?
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Tom Pryor
> 4188 Limerick Dr
> Lake Wales, Fl 33859
> Cell 248 470 9186
>
> Living on a waterfront is not a matter of life or death. Its more
> important than that.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

 

[john r. lebetski]

80,000 pound GVW Tractor trailer rigs seem to still be using those " horrible" drum brake things just fine.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II

 

[Jim Hupy]

Yes but they don't have weenie-a$$ ways to apply the stopping forces. They
use air pressure, a lot of it. And what do you think those runaway sand
traps on steep downgrades are there for? As well as the brake check areas
at the summits?
Brake linings are a consumable product. They need constant
maintenance. That is another advantage of disc brakes. Ease of inspection
and maintenence.
PACCAR, a European company that owns Kenworth trucks, among other
brands, has a technology and development center in LaConner, Washington.
They develop products for the trucking industry, including brakes. We (the
GMC CASCADERS) had the rare opportunity to visit the center last year. Lots
of stuff coming down the pike on brakes. Including automatic application
via computer controls when weary drivers approach corners too fast, and
breach summits with too much speed, etc. They have a shaker table there big
enough to hold a fully loaded Semi truck and 55 foot trailer for testing.
High tech stuff for sure.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403

> 80,000 pound GVW Tractor trailer rigs seem to still be using those "
> horrible" drum brake things just fine.
> --
> John Lebetski
> Woodstock, IL
> 77 Eleganza II
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>