Difference in manufacturing quality by year?

B

ben

New member
Sep 27, 2019
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New member here, seeking a coach for my family of 5. Trying to be realistic as possible in terms of coach capability.

403 engines in the 77-78 years aside, were there any significant changes to the manufacturing process or model over the life of the production run?

Thank you guys for your time.
 
At great personal risk, I’ll take a stab at this:

73-74 had a less effective frame damping system. Also, their cabin AC was not as good. The earliest coaches did not have aluminum on the underside of the frame. Instead they used heat deflectors on the mufflers.

73-76 had a channel on the body side molding. This went to a single solid piece of aluminum in 1977.

77-78 had an improved air conditioning system

Lots of differences with the non-GM up fitters.

I’m sure I missed a lot, and I might be a year or so off on some of the changes.

Steering/Transmission/Frame/Fuel System/Living Systems largely unchanged.

It’s going to be interesting to see everyone else take on this.

Dolph

DE AD0LF

Wheeling, West Virginia

1977 26’ ex-PalmBeach
Howell EFI & EBL, Reaction Arms, Manny Transmission

“The Aluminum and Fiberglass Mistress"

>
> New member here, seeking a coach for my family of 5. Trying to be realistic as possible in terms of coach capability.
>
> 403 engines in the 77-78 years aside, were there any significant changes to the manufacturing process or model over the life of the production run?
>
> Thank you guys for your time.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
It's those details I'm looking for and have a hard time finding.

Going with a engine replacement; and focus of question is more the body/interior/mechanicals - not chassis or power.

I really appreciate the response.

Keep them coming.
 
Here is the sales brochures for most years and models.
http://bdub.net/publications/index.html

> It's those details I'm looking for and have a hard time finding.
>
> Going with a engine replacement; and focus of question is more the body/interior/mechanicals - not chassis or power.
>
> I really appreciate the response.
>
> Keep them coming.

--
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
 
GM upfitted coaches also had differences in the rear air system. Early coaches had the air compressor under the hood with three valves on a dash
panel controlling the flow of air in the dash back to the bags.

Then there was Electro-Level that used rocker switches in the same dash location wired to solenoids in a cabinet near the rear wheels where the
compressor was relocated to. From the solenoids much shorter air lines went to the bags.

Late coaches had Electro-Level II that had two air compressors - one for each side - as opposed to the Dana twin cylinder compressor - controlled from
the same rocker panel, but relocated to the driver's left window. Electro-Level II ride height was controlled by optical switches that are still in
use (I think).

My opinion is that the coaches simply got better each refresh, but no so significantly that that I'd toss out an older one in good shape.
--
Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
 
Thanks for those bits. Any other opinions you have would be welcomed.

So far, I seem to be hearing that there were several positive incremental improvements made. I guess that's expected but, it's nice to know the
details.

I think I saw a video by Bounds about body sag due to poor frame support up front. Is that an all-year issue or do the later coaches have reinforced
body support?

Thanks again.
 
> Thanks for those bits. Any other opinions you have would be welcomed.
>
> So far, I seem to be hearing that there were several positive incremental improvements made. I guess that's expected but, it's nice to know the
> details.
>
> I think I saw a video by Bounds about body sag due to poor frame support up front. Is that an all-year issue or do the later coaches have
> reinforced body support?
>
> Thanks again.

BRG,

The body sag issue is pretty much across the platform. Part of it is that these coaches were designed for a life that was roughly twice the life of
all the others in the came class. Most of ours are now at three times that. Yes, the older have it worse. Mine is a 73 23, and I love it. I would
suggest that this not be a first choice. And that for -oh so many - reasons. But, if you should trip across one that was a 73 and you like it a lot
and it has been loved, do not count it out. Just be real ready to deal with it (and plan on 10K of up grades if you do the work).

Matt - please don't tell me about early production, S2-7.9, 13'Boston Whaler #64, First year Honda 350-4, Original Jeep Gladiator with 230 OHC6,
etc.

--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
Maybe I missed it, but somewhere around 1975 they switched to the HEI ignition which I think is superior to the previous points system.

One other thing I discovered on a 1978 that I have the tanks down on, is they ran the vent lines overhead attached to the floor using steel rather
than hose to increase venting. This looks like it is OEM and not a PO installed thing.

Also on California coaches GM installed heat shields (special RPO) between the exhaust and the gas tanks (Jim K sells them) and also they used two
carbon canisters instead if one.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
Ben,
Please call me so we an discuss. 800-752-7502

On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 6:45 PM Ken Burton via Gmclist <

> Maybe I missed it, but somewhere around 1975 they switched to the HEI
> ignition which I think is superior to the previous points system.
>
> One other thing I discovered on a 1978 that I have the tanks down on, is
> they ran the vent lines overhead attached to the floor using steel rather
> than hose to increase venting. This looks like it is OEM and not a PO
> installed thing.
>
> Also on California coaches GM installed heat shields (special RPO) between
> the exhaust and the gas tanks (Jim K sells them) and also they used two
> carbon canisters instead if one.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
 
73-74 had 1-1/4” bogie pins with a single lubrication hole in the space
between the two bushings. Getting grease into both bushings was a problem.
In ‘75, they increased the pin size to 1-1/2” (as a I recall), and the new
pin has two lubrication openings inside each of the two bushing races. This
is a more durable design. (I just got finished converting my early rear
suspension to bogie assemblies from a junked ‘76.)

73-74 coaches came with bias-ply tires, on wheels not designed or rated for
radial tires. That fact has motivated more than one upgrade to 16” aluminum
wheels (mine included).

Early ‘73 coaches had troublesome door latches that were upgraded in the
factory and at dealerships to the heavy-truck style used subsequently.
Which means ‘73’s have a large 8x8 stainless steel patch panel with the
latch mounted in it, to cover the hole left by the discontinued latch. Mine
was about the thousandth coach made—it has the patches.

73 and maybe 74 used 1” marine-grade plywood as a floor. Later coaches used
3/4” plus an insulation panel. These panels were laid into an aluminum
floor frame. In both, the floor creeps into a mustache cross-section, with
edges and centerline sagging below the frame rails, where the supports are.
That’s what causes sag, beaver checks below the cockpit windows,
middle-aged spread at the door opening, and a wavy floor.

Early coaches used different windows than later coaches. They have joints
in the horizontal runs between the radiused corners of the windows. Those
are leak points. That was part of my motivation to install modern
replacements from Gene Dotson.

The sub-structure under the cockpit floor was made from welded aluminum
round bar in early coaches, and stampings in later coaches. I don’t think
there is a preference.

Other than what’s already been mentioned, that’s what comes to mind. There
are many other minor changes, and I think Bill Bryant is the only person
who knows most of them.

Rick “who has a ‘73 with most of the big early coach weaknesses resolved”
Denney

On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 8:21 PM ben--- via Gmclist
wrote:

> Thanks for those bits. Any other opinions you have would be welcomed.
>
> So far, I seem to be hearing that there were several positive incremental
> improvements made. I guess that's expected but, it's nice to know the
> details.
>
>
> I think I saw a video by Bounds about body sag due to poor frame support
> up front. Is that an all-year issue or do the later coaches have reinforced
> body support?
>
>
> Thanks again.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
 
Oh, one more thing - with a family of 5 don’t suffer from analysis paralysis. One of my greatest regrets is not getting one of these magic machines sooner. The memories we made in our coach are so very precious to me. My daughter is now 24 and building a life of her own. We used the coach as a traveling girl’s club it seems. I know it sleeps 6 comfortably because we would often bring 3 of her friends with us wherever we went.

It’s a great way to travel. We’re not really campers. We go places. Sometimes we slept at Walmart! We drove the coach to hotels, RV parks, national parks too. We relied on campsite showers and restaurants but also ate out of the fridge, or used the microwave. The girls were comfortable and never bored. I never once was asked if we were there yet.

Get a coach that’s pretty much ready to go, make it safe (brakes, tires, fuel lines, air bags, etc.) and go. It helps if the generator and roof air work, but you can fix that. The dash air, if it works, well, count yourself lucky.

Your family is very lucky to have something like this in their future. Remember - there is nothing more comfortable to be stuck beside the road than a car with a fridge, bathroom and bed.

Also - share stories of your upgrades, trips, questions, and more.

Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, CA
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Distributor
 
> 73-74 had 1-1/4" bogie pins with a single lubrication hole in the space
> between the two bushings. Getting grease into both bushings was a problem.
> In '75, they increased the pin size to 1-1/2" (as a I recall), and the new
> pin has two lubrication openings inside each of the two bushing races. This
> is a more durable design. (I just got finished converting my early rear
> suspension to bogie assemblies from a junked '76.)
>
> 73-74 coaches came with bias-ply tires, on wheels not designed or rated for
> radial tires. That fact has motivated more than one upgrade to 16" aluminum
> wheels (mine included).
>
> Early '73 coaches had troublesome door latches that were upgraded in the
> factory and at dealerships to the heavy-truck style used subsequently.
> Which means '73's have a large 8x8 stainless steel patch panel with the
> latch mounted in it, to cover the hole left by the discontinued latch. Mine
> was about the thousandth coach made--it has the patches.
>
> 73 and maybe 74 used 1" marine-grade plywood as a floor. Later coaches used
> 3/4" plus an insulation panel. These panels were laid into an aluminum
> floor frame. In both, the floor creeps into a mustache cross-section, with
> edges and centerline sagging below the frame rails, where the supports are.
> That's what causes sag, beaver checks below the cockpit windows,
> middle-aged spread at the door opening, and a wavy floor.
>
> Early coaches used different windows than later coaches. They have joints
> in the horizontal runs between the radiused corners of the windows. Those
> are leak points. That was part of my motivation to install modern
> replacements from Gene Dotson.
>
> The sub-structure under the cockpit floor was made from welded aluminum
> round bar in early coaches, and stampings in later coaches. I don't think
> there is a preference.
>
> Other than what's already been mentioned, that's what comes to mind. There
> are many other minor changes, and I think Bill Bryant is the only person
> who knows most of them.
>
> Rick "who has a '73 with most of the big early coach weaknesses resolved"
> Denney
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 8:21 PM ben--- via Gmclist

>
> > Thanks for those bits. Any other opinions you have would be welcomed.
> >
> > So far, I seem to be hearing that there were several positive incremental
> > improvements made. I guess that's expected but, it's nice to know the
> > details.
> >
> >
> > I think I saw a video by Bounds about body sag due to poor frame support
> > up front. Is that an all-year issue or do the later coaches have reinforced
> > body support?
> >
> >
> > Thanks again.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> --
> '73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
> Northern Virginia
> Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

That's great stuff. Thanks a lot.
 
> Oh, one more thing - with a family of 5 don't suffer from analysis paralysis. One of my greatest regrets is not getting one of these magic
> machines sooner. The memories we made in our coach are so very precious to me. My daughter is now 24 and building a life of her own. We used the
> coach as a traveling girl's club it seems. I know it sleeps 6 comfortably because we would often bring 3 of her friends with us wherever we went.
>
>
> It's a great way to travel. We're not really campers. We go places. Sometimes we slept at Walmart! We drove the coach to hotels, RV parks,
> national parks too. We relied on campsite showers and restaurants but also ate out of the fridge, or used the microwave. The girls were
> comfortable and never bored. I never once was asked if we were there yet.
>
> Get a coach that's pretty much ready to go, make it safe (brakes, tires, fuel lines, air bags, etc.) and go. It helps if the generator and roof
> air work, but you can fix that. The dash air, if it works, well, count yourself lucky.
>
> Your family is very lucky to have something like this in their future. Remember - there is nothing more comfortable to be stuck beside the road
> than a car with a fridge, bathroom and bed.
>
> Also - share stories of your upgrades, trips, questions, and more.
>
> Larry Davick
> A Mystery Machine
> 1976(ish) Palm Beach
> Fremont, CA
> Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Distributor
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

You just described us and our plans to the letter. Couldn't have said it better myself. We're way more cruisers than campers.

Exactly right about analysis paralysis - I just have to find a floorplan - the floorplan - my wife likes.

The questions were an attempt to avoid any major preventables already run into by coach owners; and the feedback has been invaluable.
 
It's not what works for others, it is what works for your family
circumstances. You can imagine what you need or want, but get in the coach
and live in it on a road trip of some duration, and you will learn what
works best for you and your family. Many GMCers have been there, done that,
and are more than willing to share what they have learned along their
journey. I compare the GMC to a time machine or transporter. Takes you to
new places and new experiences EVERY time you get behind the wheel.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Fri, Sep 27, 2019, 8:50 PM ben--- via Gmclist
wrote:

> > Oh, one more thing - with a family of 5 don't suffer from analysis
> paralysis. One of my greatest regrets is not getting one of these magic
> > machines sooner. The memories we made in our coach are so very precious
> to me. My daughter is now 24 and building a life of her own. We used the
> > coach as a traveling girl's club it seems. I know it sleeps 6
> comfortably because we would often bring 3 of her friends with us wherever
> we went.
> >
> >
> > It's a great way to travel. We're not really campers. We go places.
> Sometimes we slept at Walmart! We drove the coach to hotels, RV parks,
> > national parks too. We relied on campsite showers and restaurants but
> also ate out of the fridge, or used the microwave. The girls were
> > comfortable and never bored. I never once was asked if we were there
> yet.
> >
> > Get a coach that's pretty much ready to go, make it safe (brakes, tires,
> fuel lines, air bags, etc.) and go. It helps if the generator and roof
> > air work, but you can fix that. The dash air, if it works, well, count
> yourself lucky.
> >
> > Your family is very lucky to have something like this in their future.
> Remember - there is nothing more comfortable to be stuck beside the road
> > than a car with a fridge, bathroom and bed.
> >
> > Also - share stories of your upgrades, trips, questions, and more.
> >
> > Larry Davick
> > A Mystery Machine
> > 1976(ish) Palm Beach
> > Fremont, CA
> > Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Distributor
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
> You just described us and our plans to the letter. Couldn't have said it
> better myself. We're way more cruisers than campers.
>
> Exactly right about analysis paralysis - I just have to find a floorplan -
> the floorplan - my wife likes.
>
> The questions were an attempt to avoid any major preventables already run
> into by coach owners; and the feedback has been invaluable.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Love It.

> > http://www.bdub.net/publications/Eleganza2OperationConquest6-74.pdf
>
> Very nice text. Thank you.
> --
> Best regards
>
> Peer Oliver Schmidt
> PGP KeyID: 0x4196BF22
> '76a 26' Eleganza II - Virginia, US
> '73 23' Sequoia - Schleswig-Holstein, Germany
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

--
1977 Kingsley 455 as stock as it gets except lots of Ragusa parts
 
Ben,
Call me so I can discuss with you in private.
It will be worth your time. 800-752-7502

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 9:46 AM Mike Hamm via Gmclist <

> Love It.
>

> > > http://www.bdub.net/publications/Eleganza2OperationConquest6-74.pdf
> >
> > Very nice text. Thank you.
> > --
> > Best regards
> >
> > Peer Oliver Schmidt
> > PGP KeyID: 0x4196BF22
> > '76a 26' Eleganza II - Virginia, US
> > '73 23' Sequoia - Schleswig-Holstein, Germany
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> --
> 1977 Kingsley 455 as stock as it gets except lots of Ragusa parts
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
 
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