When I went to set the timing to the proper 8 degrees of advance. It ran terrible. Called Ken Henderson. He said that the outer part of my harmonic dampener had rotated. I DID NOT know that the Olds unit could do that. I was aware of other engine. So if at some time your timing was set to a moved mark. It could be affecting the timing. Thus reducing mileage. I'm thinking that I may have set my timing retarded the last time due to this. There are indexing marks that GM did when new. New one is $42. Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale
Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't.
- Thread starter Bob Dunahugh
- Start date
If your timing mark is moving (due to rotating outer ring) you really
should replace your harmonic balancer.
Sammy
> When I went to set the timing to the proper 8 degrees of advance. It ran
> terrible. Called Ken Henderson. He said that the outer part of my harmonic
> dampener had rotated. I DID NOT know that the Olds unit could do that. I
> was aware of other engine. So if at some time your timing was set to a
> moved mark. It could be affecting the timing. Thus reducing mileage. I'm
> thinking that I may have set my timing retarded the last time due to this.
> There are indexing marks that GM did when new. New one is $42. Bob
> Dunahugh 78 Royale
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
should replace your harmonic balancer.
Sammy
> When I went to set the timing to the proper 8 degrees of advance. It ran
> terrible. Called Ken Henderson. He said that the outer part of my harmonic
> dampener had rotated. I DID NOT know that the Olds unit could do that. I
> was aware of other engine. So if at some time your timing was set to a
> moved mark. It could be affecting the timing. Thus reducing mileage. I'm
> thinking that I may have set my timing retarded the last time due to this.
> There are indexing marks that GM did when new. New one is $42. Bob
> Dunahugh 78 Royale
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
The weighted sheave is attached to the hub of the harmonic balancer with a
rubber damper. The rubber breaks down and cracks, which allows the sheave
to slip with respect to the hub. Replacement is the only option. Making a
new mark will last only until it slips again, which will happen more easily
next time.
Rick "a common feature of Old engines" Denney
> When I went to set the timing to the proper 8 degrees of advance. It ran
> terrible. Called Ken Henderson. He said that the outer part of my harmonic
> dampener had rotated. I DID NOT know that the Olds unit could do that. I
> was aware of other engine. So if at some time your timing was set to a
> moved mark. It could be affecting the timing. Thus reducing mileage. I'm
> thinking that I may have set my timing retarded the last time due to this.
> There are indexing marks that GM did when new. New one is $42. Bob
> Dunahugh 78 Royale
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Rick Denney
73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
rubber damper. The rubber breaks down and cracks, which allows the sheave
to slip with respect to the hub. Replacement is the only option. Making a
new mark will last only until it slips again, which will happen more easily
next time.
Rick "a common feature of Old engines" Denney
> When I went to set the timing to the proper 8 degrees of advance. It ran
> terrible. Called Ken Henderson. He said that the outer part of my harmonic
> dampener had rotated. I DID NOT know that the Olds unit could do that. I
> was aware of other engine. So if at some time your timing was set to a
> moved mark. It could be affecting the timing. Thus reducing mileage. I'm
> thinking that I may have set my timing retarded the last time due to this.
> There are indexing marks that GM did when new. New one is $42. Bob
> Dunahugh 78 Royale
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Rick Denney
73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
If you have the compensating dampener very clean, you should be able to
locate "witness marks" placed there by the factory. They appear as a single
chisel mark that bridges the hub, the rubber dampener, and the outer rim.
All in a line. If it slips, the line no longer appears straight, and timing
by the mark on the rim will no longer be accurate. I have seen several
dampeners misaligned like this, most had been cleaned in a hot tank.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
> When I went to set the timing to the proper 8 degrees of advance. It ran
> terrible. Called Ken Henderson. He said that the outer part of my harmonic
> dampener had rotated. I DID NOT know that the Olds unit could do that. I
> was aware of other engine. So if at some time your timing was set to a
> moved mark. It could be affecting the timing. Thus reducing mileage. I'm
> thinking that I may have set my timing retarded the last time due to this.
> There are indexing marks that GM did when new. New one is $42. Bob
> Dunahugh 78 Royale
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
locate "witness marks" placed there by the factory. They appear as a single
chisel mark that bridges the hub, the rubber dampener, and the outer rim.
All in a line. If it slips, the line no longer appears straight, and timing
by the mark on the rim will no longer be accurate. I have seen several
dampeners misaligned like this, most had been cleaned in a hot tank.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
> When I went to set the timing to the proper 8 degrees of advance. It ran
> terrible. Called Ken Henderson. He said that the outer part of my harmonic
> dampener had rotated. I DID NOT know that the Olds unit could do that. I
> was aware of other engine. So if at some time your timing was set to a
> moved mark. It could be affecting the timing. Thus reducing mileage. I'm
> thinking that I may have set my timing retarded the last time due to this.
> There are indexing marks that GM did when new. New one is $42. Bob
> Dunahugh 78 Royale
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
> When I went to set the timing to the proper 8 degrees of advance. It ran terrible. Called Ken Henderson. He said that the outer part of my
> harmonic dampener had rotated. I DID NOT know that the Olds unit could do that. I was aware of other engine. So if at some time your timing was set
> to a moved mark. It could be affecting the timing. Thus reducing mileage. I'm thinking that I may have set my timing retarded the last time due to
> this. There are indexing marks that GM did when new. New one is $42. Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale
I will take the moment to both warn you all that this can happen to any engine that has rubber damper installed. That means just about every passcar
engine produced since WWII. I have had it happen to new parts on durability engines. If you have a chance check for witness marks. If you don't see
them, make some.
And I will take a little more of your time to wish everyone in the great family a Happy Thanksgiving. We are getting ready here and will have the
daughter and her family here and have number of four grandsons from our son's side here for the weekend.
Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> harmonic dampener had rotated. I DID NOT know that the Olds unit could do that. I was aware of other engine. So if at some time your timing was set
> to a moved mark. It could be affecting the timing. Thus reducing mileage. I'm thinking that I may have set my timing retarded the last time due to
> this. There are indexing marks that GM did when new. New one is $42. Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale
I will take the moment to both warn you all that this can happen to any engine that has rubber damper installed. That means just about every passcar
engine produced since WWII. I have had it happen to new parts on durability engines. If you have a chance check for witness marks. If you don't see
them, make some.
And I will take a little more of your time to wish everyone in the great family a Happy Thanksgiving. We are getting ready here and will have the
daughter and her family here and have number of four grandsons from our son's side here for the weekend.
Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
look here:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/harmonic-balancer-notes/p5571.html
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/harmonic-balancer-notes/p5568.html
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/harmonic-balancer-notes/p5569.html
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/harmonic-balancer-notes/p5570.html
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/harmonic-balancer-notes/p5571.html
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/harmonic-balancer-notes/p5568.html
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/harmonic-balancer-notes/p5569.html
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/harmonic-balancer-notes/p5570.html
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
Matt,
The '68 and later iron block Cadillac's had their timing marks on the back
pulley. Oddly, they used a balancer with sheet metal pulleys
from '68 to '73. Then '74 to '76 used cast iron pulleys with no balancer.
'77 and later used sheet metal pulleys with no balancer.
I've always wondered what their reasoning was. When I built my serpentine
belt setup, I started with no balancer and later added one.
Never could see or feel any difference. I always wonder WHY?
Gary Kosier
77PB w/500Cad
Newark, Ohio
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Matt Colie"
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 9:16 AM
To:
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds
engines? I didn't.
>> When I went to set the timing to the proper 8 degrees of advance. It ran
>> terrible. Called Ken Henderson. He said that the outer part of my
>> harmonic dampener had rotated. I DID NOT know that the Olds unit could do
>> that. I was aware of other engine. So if at some time your timing was set
>> to a moved mark. It could be affecting the timing. Thus reducing
>> mileage. I'm thinking that I may have set my timing retarded the last
>> time due to
>> this. There are indexing marks that GM did when new. New one is $42.
>> Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale
>
> I will take the moment to both warn you all that this can happen to any
> engine that has rubber damper installed. That means just about every
> passcar
> engine produced since WWII. I have had it happen to new parts on
> durability engines. If you have a chance check for witness marks. If you
> don't see
> them, make some.
>
> And I will take a little more of your time to wish everyone in the great
> family a Happy Thanksgiving. We are getting ready here and will have the
> daughter and her family here and have number of four grandsons from our
> son's side here for the weekend.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
The '68 and later iron block Cadillac's had their timing marks on the back
pulley. Oddly, they used a balancer with sheet metal pulleys
from '68 to '73. Then '74 to '76 used cast iron pulleys with no balancer.
'77 and later used sheet metal pulleys with no balancer.
I've always wondered what their reasoning was. When I built my serpentine
belt setup, I started with no balancer and later added one.
Never could see or feel any difference. I always wonder WHY?
Gary Kosier
77PB w/500Cad
Newark, Ohio
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Matt Colie"
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 9:16 AM
To:
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds
engines? I didn't.
>> When I went to set the timing to the proper 8 degrees of advance. It ran
>> terrible. Called Ken Henderson. He said that the outer part of my
>> harmonic dampener had rotated. I DID NOT know that the Olds unit could do
>> that. I was aware of other engine. So if at some time your timing was set
>> to a moved mark. It could be affecting the timing. Thus reducing
>> mileage. I'm thinking that I may have set my timing retarded the last
>> time due to
>> this. There are indexing marks that GM did when new. New one is $42.
>> Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale
>
> I will take the moment to both warn you all that this can happen to any
> engine that has rubber damper installed. That means just about every
> passcar
> engine produced since WWII. I have had it happen to new parts on
> durability engines. If you have a chance check for witness marks. If you
> don't see
> them, make some.
>
> And I will take a little more of your time to wish everyone in the great
> family a Happy Thanksgiving. We are getting ready here and will have the
> daughter and her family here and have number of four grandsons from our
> son's side here for the weekend.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > When I went to set the timing to the proper 8 degrees of advance. It ran terrible. Called Ken Henderson. He said that the outer part of my
> > harmonic dampener had rotated. I DID NOT know that the Olds unit could do that. I was aware of other engine. So if at some time your timing was
> > set to a moved mark. It could be affecting the timing. Thus reducing mileage. I'm thinking that I may have set my timing retarded the last time
> > due to this. There are indexing marks that GM did when new. New one is $42. Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale
>
> I will take the moment to both warn you all that this can happen to any engine that has rubber damper installed. That means just about every
> passcar engine produced since WWII. I have had it happen to new parts on durability engines. If you have a chance check for witness marks. If you
> don't see them, make some.
>
> And I will take a little more of your time to wish everyone in the great family a Happy Thanksgiving. We are getting ready here and will have the
> daughter and her family here and have number of four grandsons from our son's side here for the weekend.
>
> Matt
Won't happen o the Cadillac engine. The damper is a separate piece that bolts to the pull housing and does not have timing marks on it. Just FYI.
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
> > harmonic dampener had rotated. I DID NOT know that the Olds unit could do that. I was aware of other engine. So if at some time your timing was
> > set to a moved mark. It could be affecting the timing. Thus reducing mileage. I'm thinking that I may have set my timing retarded the last time
> > due to this. There are indexing marks that GM did when new. New one is $42. Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale
>
> I will take the moment to both warn you all that this can happen to any engine that has rubber damper installed. That means just about every
> passcar engine produced since WWII. I have had it happen to new parts on durability engines. If you have a chance check for witness marks. If you
> don't see them, make some.
>
> And I will take a little more of your time to wish everyone in the great family a Happy Thanksgiving. We are getting ready here and will have the
> daughter and her family here and have number of four grandsons from our son's side here for the weekend.
>
> Matt
Won't happen o the Cadillac engine. The damper is a separate piece that bolts to the pull housing and does not have timing marks on it. Just FYI.
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
It's not a balancer as commonly referred to. But a harmonic dampener. It's used to reduce the harmonic that occur at certain RPM ranges in the crankshaft of internal combustion engines. That's why the outer steel mas is mounted on rubber. Run without one. The crank will break. ( GENERALLY ) The heavier the crank. The larger the damping mas. Bob Dunahugh
________________________________
From: Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 6:01 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't.
When I went to set the timing to the proper 8 degrees of advance. It ran terrible. Called Ken Henderson. He said that the outer part of my harmonic dampener had rotated. I DID NOT know that the Olds unit could do that. I was aware of other engine. So if at some time your timing was set to a moved mark. It could be affecting the timing. Thus reducing mileage. I'm thinking that I may have set my timing retarded the last time due to this. There are indexing marks that GM did when new. New one is $42. Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale
________________________________
From: Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 6:01 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't.
When I went to set the timing to the proper 8 degrees of advance. It ran terrible. Called Ken Henderson. He said that the outer part of my harmonic dampener had rotated. I DID NOT know that the Olds unit could do that. I was aware of other engine. So if at some time your timing was set to a moved mark. It could be affecting the timing. Thus reducing mileage. I'm thinking that I may have set my timing retarded the last time due to this. There are indexing marks that GM did when new. New one is $42. Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale
Bob,
Looks like Olds parts guys didn't agree with you.
Parts Book 78Z Page 8-4
ENGINE
8.005 CYLINDER BLOCK, CRANKSHAFT AND OIL PAN (Cont.)
Key 230 260 Part Number
22 1 1 400133 BALANCER ASSY.-crankshaft (1973)
22 1 1 417142 BALANCER ASSY.-crankshaft (eff. w/1974)
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 7:40 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't.
It's not a balancer as commonly referred to. But a harmonic dampener. It's used to reduce the harmonic that occur at certain RPM
ranges in the crankshaft of internal combustion engines. That's why the outer steel mas is mounted on rubber. Run without one. The
crank will break. ( GENERALLY ) The heavier the crank. The larger the damping mas. Bob Dunahugh
________________________________
From: Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 6:01 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't.
When I went to set the timing to the proper 8 degrees of advance. It ran terrible. Called Ken Henderson. He said that the outer
part of my harmonic dampener had rotated. I DID NOT know that the Olds unit could do that. I was aware of other engine. So if at
some time your timing was set to a moved mark. It could be affecting the timing. Thus reducing mileage. I'm thinking that I may
have set my timing retarded the last time due to this. There are indexing marks that GM did when new. New one is $42. Bob Dunahugh
78 Royale
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Looks like Olds parts guys didn't agree with you.
Parts Book 78Z Page 8-4
ENGINE
8.005 CYLINDER BLOCK, CRANKSHAFT AND OIL PAN (Cont.)
Key 230 260 Part Number
22 1 1 400133 BALANCER ASSY.-crankshaft (1973)
22 1 1 417142 BALANCER ASSY.-crankshaft (eff. w/1974)
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 7:40 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't.
It's not a balancer as commonly referred to. But a harmonic dampener. It's used to reduce the harmonic that occur at certain RPM
ranges in the crankshaft of internal combustion engines. That's why the outer steel mas is mounted on rubber. Run without one. The
crank will break. ( GENERALLY ) The heavier the crank. The larger the damping mas. Bob Dunahugh
________________________________
From: Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 6:01 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't.
When I went to set the timing to the proper 8 degrees of advance. It ran terrible. Called Ken Henderson. He said that the outer
part of my harmonic dampener had rotated. I DID NOT know that the Olds unit could do that. I was aware of other engine. So if at
some time your timing was set to a moved mark. It could be affecting the timing. Thus reducing mileage. I'm thinking that I may
have set my timing retarded the last time due to this. There are indexing marks that GM did when new. New one is $42. Bob Dunahugh
78 Royale
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
They couldn't agree whether it to call it a "dampener" or "damper", so they
compromised on a word they could all agree was wrong, "balancer".
Rick "it's 'damper'" Denney
On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 10:18 PM Rob Mueller
wrote:
> Bob,
>
> Looks like Olds parts guys didn't agree with you.
>
>
>
> Parts Book 78Z Page 8-4
>
> ENGINE
>
> 8.005 CYLINDER BLOCK, CRANKSHAFT AND OIL PAN (Cont.)
>
> Key 230 260 Part Number
> 22 1 1 400133 BALANCER ASSY.-crankshaft (1973)
> 22 1 1 417142 BALANCER ASSY.-crankshaft (eff. w/1974)
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> The Pedantic Mechanic
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Bob
> Dunahugh
> Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 7:40 PM
> To: gmclist
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds
> engines? I didn't.
>
> It's not a balancer as commonly referred to. But a harmonic dampener. It's
> used to reduce the harmonic that occur at certain RPM
> ranges in the crankshaft of internal combustion engines. That's why the
> outer steel mas is mounted on rubber. Run without one. The
> crank will break. ( GENERALLY ) The heavier the crank. The larger the
> damping mas. Bob Dunahugh
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Bob Dunahugh
> Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 6:01 PM
> To: gmclist
> Subject: Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't.
>
>
> When I went to set the timing to the proper 8 degrees of advance. It ran
> terrible. Called Ken Henderson. He said that the outer
> part of my harmonic dampener had rotated. I DID NOT know that the Olds
> unit could do that. I was aware of other engine. So if at
> some time your timing was set to a moved mark. It could be affecting the
> timing. Thus reducing mileage. I'm thinking that I may
> have set my timing retarded the last time due to this. There are indexing
> marks that GM did when new. New one is $42. Bob Dunahugh
> 78 Royale
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Rick Denney
73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
compromised on a word they could all agree was wrong, "balancer".
Rick "it's 'damper'" Denney
On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 10:18 PM Rob Mueller
wrote:
> Bob,
>
> Looks like Olds parts guys didn't agree with you.
>
>
>
> Parts Book 78Z Page 8-4
>
> ENGINE
>
> 8.005 CYLINDER BLOCK, CRANKSHAFT AND OIL PAN (Cont.)
>
> Key 230 260 Part Number
> 22 1 1 400133 BALANCER ASSY.-crankshaft (1973)
> 22 1 1 417142 BALANCER ASSY.-crankshaft (eff. w/1974)
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> The Pedantic Mechanic
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Bob
> Dunahugh
> Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 7:40 PM
> To: gmclist
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds
> engines? I didn't.
>
> It's not a balancer as commonly referred to. But a harmonic dampener. It's
> used to reduce the harmonic that occur at certain RPM
> ranges in the crankshaft of internal combustion engines. That's why the
> outer steel mas is mounted on rubber. Run without one. The
> crank will break. ( GENERALLY ) The heavier the crank. The larger the
> damping mas. Bob Dunahugh
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Bob Dunahugh
> Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 6:01 PM
> To: gmclist
> Subject: Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't.
>
>
> When I went to set the timing to the proper 8 degrees of advance. It ran
> terrible. Called Ken Henderson. He said that the outer
> part of my harmonic dampener had rotated. I DID NOT know that the Olds
> unit could do that. I was aware of other engine. So if at
> some time your timing was set to a moved mark. It could be affecting the
> timing. Thus reducing mileage. I'm thinking that I may
> have set my timing retarded the last time due to this. There are indexing
> marks that GM did when new. New one is $42. Bob Dunahugh
> 78 Royale
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Rick Denney
73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
That’s all right. GMC also calls an alternator a generator or motor generator. Just look it up on out parts book or maintenance manual.
Emery Stora
>
> They couldn't agree whether it to call it a "dampener" or "damper", so they
> compromised on a word they could all agree was wrong, "balancer".
>
> Rick "it's 'damper'" Denney
>
> On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 10:18 PM Rob Mueller
>
>> Bob,
>>
>> Looks like Olds parts guys didn't agree with you.
>>
>>
>>
>> Parts Book 78Z Page 8-4
>>
>> ENGINE
>>
>> 8.005 CYLINDER BLOCK, CRANKSHAFT AND OIL PAN (Cont.)
>>
>> Key 230 260 Part Number
>> 22 1 1 400133 BALANCER ASSY.-crankshaft (1973)
>> 22 1 1 417142 BALANCER ASSY.-crankshaft (eff. w/1974)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rob M.
>> The Pedantic Mechanic
>> Sydney, Australia
>> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
>> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Bob
>> Dunahugh
>> Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 7:40 PM
>> To: gmclist
>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds
>> engines? I didn't.
>>
>> It's not a balancer as commonly referred to. But a harmonic dampener. It's
>> used to reduce the harmonic that occur at certain RPM
>> ranges in the crankshaft of internal combustion engines. That's why the
>> outer steel mas is mounted on rubber. Run without one. The
>> crank will break. ( GENERALLY ) The heavier the crank. The larger the
>> damping mas. Bob Dunahugh
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Bob Dunahugh
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 6:01 PM
>> To: gmclist
>> Subject: Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't.
>>
>>
>> When I went to set the timing to the proper 8 degrees of advance. It ran
>> terrible. Called Ken Henderson. He said that the outer
>> part of my harmonic dampener had rotated. I DID NOT know that the Olds
>> unit could do that. I was aware of other engine. So if at
>> some time your timing was set to a moved mark. It could be affecting the
>> timing. Thus reducing mileage. I'm thinking that I may
>> have set my timing retarded the last time due to this. There are indexing
>> marks that GM did when new. New one is $42. Bob Dunahugh
>> 78 Royale
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> --
> Rick Denney
> 73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
> Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Emery Stora
>
> They couldn't agree whether it to call it a "dampener" or "damper", so they
> compromised on a word they could all agree was wrong, "balancer".
>
> Rick "it's 'damper'" Denney
>
> On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 10:18 PM Rob Mueller
>
>> Bob,
>>
>> Looks like Olds parts guys didn't agree with you.
>>
>>
>>
>> Parts Book 78Z Page 8-4
>>
>> ENGINE
>>
>> 8.005 CYLINDER BLOCK, CRANKSHAFT AND OIL PAN (Cont.)
>>
>> Key 230 260 Part Number
>> 22 1 1 400133 BALANCER ASSY.-crankshaft (1973)
>> 22 1 1 417142 BALANCER ASSY.-crankshaft (eff. w/1974)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rob M.
>> The Pedantic Mechanic
>> Sydney, Australia
>> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
>> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Bob
>> Dunahugh
>> Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 7:40 PM
>> To: gmclist
>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds
>> engines? I didn't.
>>
>> It's not a balancer as commonly referred to. But a harmonic dampener. It's
>> used to reduce the harmonic that occur at certain RPM
>> ranges in the crankshaft of internal combustion engines. That's why the
>> outer steel mas is mounted on rubber. Run without one. The
>> crank will break. ( GENERALLY ) The heavier the crank. The larger the
>> damping mas. Bob Dunahugh
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Bob Dunahugh
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 6:01 PM
>> To: gmclist
>> Subject: Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't.
>>
>>
>> When I went to set the timing to the proper 8 degrees of advance. It ran
>> terrible. Called Ken Henderson. He said that the outer
>> part of my harmonic dampener had rotated. I DID NOT know that the Olds
>> unit could do that. I was aware of other engine. So if at
>> some time your timing was set to a moved mark. It could be affecting the
>> timing. Thus reducing mileage. I'm thinking that I may
>> have set my timing retarded the last time due to this. There are indexing
>> marks that GM did when new. New one is $42. Bob Dunahugh
>> 78 Royale
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> --
> Rick Denney
> 73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
> Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Had one that slipped years ago on an Olds Delta 88 with over 100 K miles. I believe it was a 350 engine. I did not want to go through all of the
work to order and replace it just to set the timing, so I just put a new mark on it with white out and timed it. It had a Delta CD ignition on it so
the points never wore other than the block wearing on the cam. So I figured it would be another 100K before anyone ever looked at it again. I do not
remember what happened to that car in the years after that.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
work to order and replace it just to set the timing, so I just put a new mark on it with white out and timed it. It had a Delta CD ignition on it so
the points never wore other than the block wearing on the cam. So I figured it would be another 100K before anyone ever looked at it again. I do not
remember what happened to that car in the years after that.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
Emery --GM called it a Delcotron.
I did know the rubber can shift and give erroneous timming readings Does that also change the balance and increase the crank stresses at certain RPM
ranges?
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
I did know the rubber can shift and give erroneous timming readings Does that also change the balance and increase the crank stresses at certain RPM
ranges?
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
MOST OF the harmonic balancers that I have encountered on Olds engines that
have not been tampered with, do not exist any evidence of lightening drill
holes on the outer ring. That tells me that the purpose is to cancel
harmonics, not engine balance. The engines that have been overhauled and
rebalanced frequently DO HAVE drill spots on the balancers as well as the
flex plates, as is common in good overhaul shops.
Don't know all the specifics of engine harmonics on multi-cylinder
engines, but it is a complex mix of crank pin location, firing order,
stroke length, rpm range, etc, etc. But I do know this much. If a
compensating balancer is separated and no longer aligned like the factory
did it, it possibly is not a good thing for engine longevity.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
> Emery --GM called it a Delcotron.
> I did know the rubber can shift and give erroneous timming readings Does
> that also change the balance and increase the crank stresses at certain RPM
> ranges?
> --
> John Lebetski
> Woodstock, IL
> 77 Eleganza II
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
have not been tampered with, do not exist any evidence of lightening drill
holes on the outer ring. That tells me that the purpose is to cancel
harmonics, not engine balance. The engines that have been overhauled and
rebalanced frequently DO HAVE drill spots on the balancers as well as the
flex plates, as is common in good overhaul shops.
Don't know all the specifics of engine harmonics on multi-cylinder
engines, but it is a complex mix of crank pin location, firing order,
stroke length, rpm range, etc, etc. But I do know this much. If a
compensating balancer is separated and no longer aligned like the factory
did it, it possibly is not a good thing for engine longevity.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
> Emery --GM called it a Delcotron.
> I did know the rubber can shift and give erroneous timming readings Does
> that also change the balance and increase the crank stresses at certain RPM
> ranges?
> --
> John Lebetski
> Woodstock, IL
> 77 Eleganza II
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
I know of guy's that pulled that outer mas off. And continued to drive with out. Ended up breaking the crank between journal 1, and 2.
________________________________
From: Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 7:39 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: RE: Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't.
It's not a balancer as commonly referred to. But a harmonic dampener. It's used to reduce the harmonic that occur at certain RPM ranges in the crankshaft of internal combustion engines. That's why the outer steel mas is mounted on rubber. Run without one. The crank will break. ( GENERALLY ) The heavier the crank. The larger the damping mas. Bob Dunahugh
________________________________
From: Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 6:01 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't.
When I went to set the timing to the proper 8 degrees of advance. It ran terrible. Called Ken Henderson. He said that the outer part of my harmonic dampener had rotated. I DID NOT know that the Olds unit could do that. I was aware of other engine. So if at some time your timing was set to a moved mark. It could be affecting the timing. Thus reducing mileage. I'm thinking that I may have set my timing retarded the last time due to this. There are indexing marks that GM did when new. New one is $42. Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale
________________________________
From: Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 7:39 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: RE: Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't.
It's not a balancer as commonly referred to. But a harmonic dampener. It's used to reduce the harmonic that occur at certain RPM ranges in the crankshaft of internal combustion engines. That's why the outer steel mas is mounted on rubber. Run without one. The crank will break. ( GENERALLY ) The heavier the crank. The larger the damping mas. Bob Dunahugh
________________________________
From: Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 6:01 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't.
When I went to set the timing to the proper 8 degrees of advance. It ran terrible. Called Ken Henderson. He said that the outer part of my harmonic dampener had rotated. I DID NOT know that the Olds unit could do that. I was aware of other engine. So if at some time your timing was set to a moved mark. It could be affecting the timing. Thus reducing mileage. I'm thinking that I may have set my timing retarded the last time due to this. There are indexing marks that GM did when new. New one is $42. Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale
Considering when balancing tire/wheel assys that more than 1/2 oz of imbalance becomes a noticable issue I can imagine it would be a problem on a
crank assy turning much faster.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
crank assy turning much faster.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
Emery,
They called it a generator because that's what it does. AND also because
Chrysler made the first AC generator and patented the word
alternator. The General didn't like to pay royalties to anyone in those
days. Times have changed their attitude.
Gary Kosier
77PB w/500Cad
Newark, Ohio
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Emery Stora"
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 11:49 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds
engines? I didn't.
> That’s all right. GMC also calls an alternator a generator or motor
> generator. Just look it up on out parts book or maintenance manual.
>
> Emery Stora
>
>>
>> They couldn't agree whether it to call it a "dampener" or "damper", so
>> they
>> compromised on a word they could all agree was wrong, "balancer".
>>
>> Rick "it's 'damper'" Denney
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 10:18 PM Rob Mueller
>>
>>> Bob,
>>>
>>> Looks like Olds parts guys didn't agree with you.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Parts Book 78Z Page 8-4
>>>
>>> ENGINE
>>>
>>> 8.005 CYLINDER BLOCK, CRANKSHAFT AND OIL PAN (Cont.)
>>>
>>> Key 230 260 Part Number
>>> 22 1 1 400133 BALANCER ASSY.-crankshaft (1973)
>>> 22 1 1 417142 BALANCER ASSY.-crankshaft (eff. w/1974)
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Rob M.
>>> The Pedantic Mechanic
>>> Sydney, Australia
>>> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
>>> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>>> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Bob
>>> Dunahugh
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 7:40 PM
>>> To: gmclist
>>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds
>>> engines? I didn't.
>>>
>>> It's not a balancer as commonly referred to. But a harmonic dampener.
>>> It's
>>> used to reduce the harmonic that occur at certain RPM
>>> ranges in the crankshaft of internal combustion engines. That's why the
>>> outer steel mas is mounted on rubber. Run without one. The
>>> crank will break. ( GENERALLY ) The heavier the crank. The larger the
>>> damping mas. Bob Dunahugh
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Bob Dunahugh
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 6:01 PM
>>> To: gmclist
>>> Subject: Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I
>>> didn't.
>>>
>>>
>>> When I went to set the timing to the proper 8 degrees of advance. It
>>> ran
>>> terrible. Called Ken Henderson. He said that the outer
>>> part of my harmonic dampener had rotated. I DID NOT know that the Olds
>>> unit could do that. I was aware of other engine. So if at
>>> some time your timing was set to a moved mark. It could be affecting the
>>> timing. Thus reducing mileage. I'm thinking that I may
>>> have set my timing retarded the last time due to this. There are
>>> indexing
>>> marks that GM did when new. New one is $42. Bob Dunahugh
>>> 78 Royale
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>> --
>> Rick Denney
>> 73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
>> Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
They called it a generator because that's what it does. AND also because
Chrysler made the first AC generator and patented the word
alternator. The General didn't like to pay royalties to anyone in those
days. Times have changed their attitude.
Gary Kosier
77PB w/500Cad
Newark, Ohio
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Emery Stora"
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 11:49 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds
engines? I didn't.
> That’s all right. GMC also calls an alternator a generator or motor
> generator. Just look it up on out parts book or maintenance manual.
>
> Emery Stora
>
>>
>> They couldn't agree whether it to call it a "dampener" or "damper", so
>> they
>> compromised on a word they could all agree was wrong, "balancer".
>>
>> Rick "it's 'damper'" Denney
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 10:18 PM Rob Mueller
>>
>>> Bob,
>>>
>>> Looks like Olds parts guys didn't agree with you.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Parts Book 78Z Page 8-4
>>>
>>> ENGINE
>>>
>>> 8.005 CYLINDER BLOCK, CRANKSHAFT AND OIL PAN (Cont.)
>>>
>>> Key 230 260 Part Number
>>> 22 1 1 400133 BALANCER ASSY.-crankshaft (1973)
>>> 22 1 1 417142 BALANCER ASSY.-crankshaft (eff. w/1974)
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Rob M.
>>> The Pedantic Mechanic
>>> Sydney, Australia
>>> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
>>> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>>> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Bob
>>> Dunahugh
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 7:40 PM
>>> To: gmclist
>>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds
>>> engines? I didn't.
>>>
>>> It's not a balancer as commonly referred to. But a harmonic dampener.
>>> It's
>>> used to reduce the harmonic that occur at certain RPM
>>> ranges in the crankshaft of internal combustion engines. That's why the
>>> outer steel mas is mounted on rubber. Run without one. The
>>> crank will break. ( GENERALLY ) The heavier the crank. The larger the
>>> damping mas. Bob Dunahugh
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Bob Dunahugh
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 6:01 PM
>>> To: gmclist
>>> Subject: Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I
>>> didn't.
>>>
>>>
>>> When I went to set the timing to the proper 8 degrees of advance. It
>>> ran
>>> terrible. Called Ken Henderson. He said that the outer
>>> part of my harmonic dampener had rotated. I DID NOT know that the Olds
>>> unit could do that. I was aware of other engine. So if at
>>> some time your timing was set to a moved mark. It could be affecting the
>>> timing. Thus reducing mileage. I'm thinking that I may
>>> have set my timing retarded the last time due to this. There are
>>> indexing
>>> marks that GM did when new. New one is $42. Bob Dunahugh
>>> 78 Royale
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>> --
>> Rick Denney
>> 73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
>> Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
Yes, I am aware of that. A generator puts out DC while an alternator puts out AC.
Our alternators make ac but it is internally voltage regulated and inverted to output DC.
Emery Stora
>
> Emery,
>
> They called it a generator because that's what it does. AND also because Chrysler made the first AC generator and patented the word
> alternator. The General didn't like to pay royalties to anyone in those days. Times have changed their attitude.
>
> Gary Kosier
> 77PB w/500Cad
> Newark, Ohio
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Emery Stora"
> Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 11:49 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't.
>
>> That’s all right. GMC also calls an alternator a generator or motor generator. Just look it up on out parts book or maintenance manual.
>>
>> Emery Stora
>>
>>>
>>> They couldn't agree whether it to call it a "dampener" or "damper", so they
>>> compromised on a word they could all agree was wrong, "balancer".
>>>
>>> Rick "it's 'damper'" Denney
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 10:18 PM Rob Mueller
>>>
>>>> Bob,
>>>>
>>>> Looks like Olds parts guys didn't agree with you.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Parts Book 78Z Page 8-4
>>>>
>>>> ENGINE
>>>>
>>>> 8.005 CYLINDER BLOCK, CRANKSHAFT AND OIL PAN (Cont.)
>>>>
>>>> Key 230 260 Part Number
>>>> 22 1 1 400133 BALANCER ASSY.-crankshaft (1973)
>>>> 22 1 1 417142 BALANCER ASSY.-crankshaft (eff. w/1974)
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Rob M.
>>>> The Pedantic Mechanic
>>>> Sydney, Australia
>>>> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
>>>> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>>>> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Bob
>>>> Dunahugh
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 7:40 PM
>>>> To: gmclist
>>>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds
>>>> engines? I didn't.
>>>>
>>>> It's not a balancer as commonly referred to. But a harmonic dampener. It's
>>>> used to reduce the harmonic that occur at certain RPM
>>>> ranges in the crankshaft of internal combustion engines. That's why the
>>>> outer steel mas is mounted on rubber. Run without one. The
>>>> crank will break. ( GENERALLY ) The heavier the crank. The larger the
>>>> damping mas. Bob Dunahugh
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Bob Dunahugh
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 6:01 PM
>>>> To: gmclist
>>>> Subject: Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When I went to set the timing to the proper 8 degrees of advance. It ran
>>>> terrible. Called Ken Henderson. He said that the outer
>>>> part of my harmonic dampener had rotated. I DID NOT know that the Olds
>>>> unit could do that. I was aware of other engine. So if at
>>>> some time your timing was set to a moved mark. It could be affecting the
>>>> timing. Thus reducing mileage. I'm thinking that I may
>>>> have set my timing retarded the last time due to this. There are indexing
>>>> marks that GM did when new. New one is $42. Bob Dunahugh
>>>> 78 Royale
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Rick Denney
>>> 73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
>>> Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Our alternators make ac but it is internally voltage regulated and inverted to output DC.
Emery Stora
>
> Emery,
>
> They called it a generator because that's what it does. AND also because Chrysler made the first AC generator and patented the word
> alternator. The General didn't like to pay royalties to anyone in those days. Times have changed their attitude.
>
> Gary Kosier
> 77PB w/500Cad
> Newark, Ohio
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Emery Stora"
> Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 11:49 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't.
>
>> That’s all right. GMC also calls an alternator a generator or motor generator. Just look it up on out parts book or maintenance manual.
>>
>> Emery Stora
>>
>>>
>>> They couldn't agree whether it to call it a "dampener" or "damper", so they
>>> compromised on a word they could all agree was wrong, "balancer".
>>>
>>> Rick "it's 'damper'" Denney
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 10:18 PM Rob Mueller
>>>
>>>> Bob,
>>>>
>>>> Looks like Olds parts guys didn't agree with you.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Parts Book 78Z Page 8-4
>>>>
>>>> ENGINE
>>>>
>>>> 8.005 CYLINDER BLOCK, CRANKSHAFT AND OIL PAN (Cont.)
>>>>
>>>> Key 230 260 Part Number
>>>> 22 1 1 400133 BALANCER ASSY.-crankshaft (1973)
>>>> 22 1 1 417142 BALANCER ASSY.-crankshaft (eff. w/1974)
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Rob M.
>>>> The Pedantic Mechanic
>>>> Sydney, Australia
>>>> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
>>>> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>>>> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Bob
>>>> Dunahugh
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 7:40 PM
>>>> To: gmclist
>>>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds
>>>> engines? I didn't.
>>>>
>>>> It's not a balancer as commonly referred to. But a harmonic dampener. It's
>>>> used to reduce the harmonic that occur at certain RPM
>>>> ranges in the crankshaft of internal combustion engines. That's why the
>>>> outer steel mas is mounted on rubber. Run without one. The
>>>> crank will break. ( GENERALLY ) The heavier the crank. The larger the
>>>> damping mas. Bob Dunahugh
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Bob Dunahugh
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 6:01 PM
>>>> To: gmclist
>>>> Subject: Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When I went to set the timing to the proper 8 degrees of advance. It ran
>>>> terrible. Called Ken Henderson. He said that the outer
>>>> part of my harmonic dampener had rotated. I DID NOT know that the Olds
>>>> unit could do that. I was aware of other engine. So if at
>>>> some time your timing was set to a moved mark. It could be affecting the
>>>> timing. Thus reducing mileage. I'm thinking that I may
>>>> have set my timing retarded the last time due to this. There are indexing
>>>> marks that GM did when new. New one is $42. Bob Dunahugh
>>>> 78 Royale
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>> --
>>> Rick Denney
>>> 73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
>>> Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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Jim,
My experience with "good overhaul shops" is that they balance the crank by drilling holes in the counterweights to lighten them or
filling the holes with lead to increase the weight.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of James Hupy
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2017 11:11 AM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't.
MOST OF the harmonic balancers that I have encountered on Olds engines that
have not been tampered with, do not exist any evidence of lightening drill
holes on the outer ring. That tells me that the purpose is to cancel
harmonics, not engine balance. The engines that have been overhauled and
rebalanced frequently DO HAVE drill spots on the balancers as well as the
flex plates, as is common in good overhaul shops.
Don't know all the specifics of engine harmonics on multi-cylinder
engines, but it is a complex mix of crank pin location, firing order,
stroke length, rpm range, etc, etc. But I do know this much. If a
compensating balancer is separated and no longer aligned like the factory
did it, it possibly is not a good thing for engine longevity.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
My experience with "good overhaul shops" is that they balance the crank by drilling holes in the counterweights to lighten them or
filling the holes with lead to increase the weight.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of James Hupy
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2017 11:11 AM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Did you know your timing mark can MOVE on Olds engines? I didn't.
MOST OF the harmonic balancers that I have encountered on Olds engines that
have not been tampered with, do not exist any evidence of lightening drill
holes on the outer ring. That tells me that the purpose is to cancel
harmonics, not engine balance. The engines that have been overhauled and
rebalanced frequently DO HAVE drill spots on the balancers as well as the
flex plates, as is common in good overhaul shops.
Don't know all the specifics of engine harmonics on multi-cylinder
engines, but it is a complex mix of crank pin location, firing order,
stroke length, rpm range, etc, etc. But I do know this much. If a
compensating balancer is separated and no longer aligned like the factory
did it, it possibly is not a good thing for engine longevity.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
