Dead coach

S

steve southworth

New member
Jul 17, 2007
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Drove 220 miles. Coach was running just fine. Gas stop about 50 miles before stop. Everything running OK. Stopped for the night. Next morning no
start other than a brief cough and die. Since then nothing. I had a somewhat complicated fuel system. It has been reconfigured to KISS. In tank
pumps to filter to check valve to carb. Got fuel to carb as accel pump does the squirt thing. Got spark at distributor. Went so far as to have a
carb shipped in. This carb was running a GMC just fine a week ago before it was replaced by EFI. Patterson engine and distributor with 20k on them.

I know this has got to be something very simple. I just don't know what it could be.

Oh great collective brain trust, got any ideas.

--
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
 
> Drove 220 miles. Coach was running just fine. Gas stop about 50 miles before stop. Everything running OK. Stopped for the night. Next morning
> no start other than a brief cough and die. Since then nothing. I had a somewhat complicated fuel system. It has been reconfigured to KISS. In
> tank pumps to filter to check valve to carb. Got fuel to carb as accel pump does the squirt thing. Got spark at distributor. Went so far as to
> have a carb shipped in. This carb was running a GMC just fine a week ago before it was replaced by EFI. Patterson engine and distributor with 20k
> on them.
>
> I know this has got to be something very simple. I just don't know what it could be.
>
> Oh great collective brain trust, got any ideas.

BTW we're at Logansport IN.
--
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
 
Timing chain ?

Sent from my iPad

>

>> Drove 220 miles. Coach was running just fine. Gas stop about 50 miles before stop. Everything running OK. Stopped for the night. Next morning
>> no start other than a brief cough and die. Since then nothing. I had a somewhat complicated fuel system. It has been reconfigured to KISS. In
>> tank pumps to filter to check valve to carb. Got fuel to carb as accel pump does the squirt thing. Got spark at distributor. Went so far as to
>> have a carb shipped in. This carb was running a GMC just fine a week ago before it was replaced by EFI. Patterson engine and distributor with 20k
>> on them.
>>
>> I know this has got to be something very simple. I just don't know what it could be.
>>
>> Oh great collective brain trust, got any ideas.
>
> BTW we're at Logansport IN.
> --
> Steve Southworth
> 1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
> 1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
> Palmyra WI
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
> Timing chain ?

I never say never. Could be but I doubt a Patterson engine would slip a tooth.

I have a timing light along. Can that be used on a cranking engine to check the timing?

--
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
 
Distributor rotor or contact gave up?
--
Terry Kelpien

ASE Master Technician

73 Glacier 260

Smithfield, Va.
 
Make sure there is spark at end of plug wires...
--
Terry Kelpien

ASE Master Technician

73 Glacier 260

Smithfield, Va.
 
What do you mean “spark at distributor”? Do you have spark at the end of the wire going to the spark plug?

Does your choke work?

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick CO

>
> Drove 220 miles. Coach was running just fine. Gas stop about 50 miles before stop. Everything running OK. Stopped for the night. Next morning no
> start other than a brief cough and die. Since then nothing. I had a somewhat complicated fuel system. It has been reconfigured to KISS. In tank
> pumps to filter to check valve to carb. Got fuel to carb as accel pump does the squirt thing. Got spark at distributor. Went so far as to have a
> carb shipped in. This carb was running a GMC just fine a week ago before it was replaced by EFI. Patterson engine and distributor with 20k on them.
>
> I know this has got to be something very simple. I just don't know what it could be.
>
> Oh great collective brain trust, got any ideas.
>
>
> --
> Steve Southworth
> 1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
> 1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
> Palmyra WI
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
> Distributor rotor or contact gave up?

I pulled the cap to see if the dizzy went round and round. It did. I'll check again looking for those items.

Fortunately we are at a vey nice campground. Parts stores and other shopping easily available. Thank heavens for the toad.
--
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
 
> Drove 220 miles. Coach was running just fine. Gas stop about 50 miles before stop. Everything running OK. Stopped for the night. Next morning
> no start other than a brief cough and die. Since then nothing. I had a somewhat complicated fuel system. It has been reconfigured to KISS. In
> tank pumps to filter to check valve to carb. Got fuel to carb as accel pump does the squirt thing. Got spark at distributor. Went so far as to
> have a carb shipped in. This carb was running a GMC just fine a week ago before it was replaced by EFI. Patterson engine and distributor with 20k
> on them.
>
> I know this has got to be something very simple. I just don't know what it could be.
>
> Oh great collective brain trust, got any ideas.

Steve,

Yes, use the timing light.
You know it has fuel, so I vote for an ignition issue. Has it been converted to HEI? If that is the case, suspect the ignition. So, hook up the
timing light and if it is at all irregular, then suspect something in the HEI.

I kind of hate to tell you this, but checking spark by pulling a wire is enough to kill an HEI. If it is dead, the timing light won't flash.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
> Steve,
>
> Yes, use the timing light.
> You know it has fuel, so I vote for an ignition issue. Has it been converted to HEI? If that is the case, suspect the ignition. So, hook up the
> timing light and if it is at all irregular, then suspect something in the HEI.
>
> I kind of hate to tell you this, but checking spark by pulling a wire is enough to kill an HEI. If it is dead, the timing light won't flash.
>
> Matt

Pertronics. I did not open circuit the HV but had a screwdriver to ground acting as a spark gap. Timing light will tell if it's toast.

I carry a complete spare distributor.
--
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
 
Filled with diesel by mistake?

Sully
Bellevue wa

On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 11:49 AM Steve Southworth via Gmclist <

> Wed, 16 October 2019 13:41
> > Steve,
> >
> > Yes, use the timing light.
> > You know it has fuel, so I vote for an ignition issue. Has it been
> converted to HEI? If that is the case, suspect the ignition. So, hook up
> the
> > timing light and if it is at all irregular, then suspect something in
> the HEI.
> >
> > I kind of hate to tell you this, but checking spark by pulling a wire is
> enough to kill an HEI. If it is dead, the timing light won't flash.
> >
> > Matt
>
>
> Pertronics. I did not open circuit the HV but had a screwdriver to ground
> acting as a spark gap. Timing light will tell if it's toast.
>
> I carry a complete spare distributor.
> --
> Steve Southworth
> 1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
> 1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
> Palmyra WI
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Anybody reading this. an inductive Timing light is a very inexpensive tool that can be very handy to quickly see if you are dealing with a spark or
fuel issue. simplest way I have found to make sure you have spark for sure, without tearing apart things.

So do as Matt and others suggested, hook up the timing light, and zip tie the trigger and crank the engine. That will very easily and quickly tell
you if you have spark. a litte twisting and con-torsion and you can double check it is sparking near TDC.

another easy thing to try, is to use a mustard squeeze bottle, to fill up the carb.

I would suspect a wire on the distributor or such causing an issue. if you are pertronixs, there are a few ways to wire that up on the old points
system where you have to deal with resistor and the extra wire off starter, that could be causing some issue. you need to make sure you know what
voltage the distributor is getting at ignition "on" as well as what it sees while cranking.

--
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
 
Just because you saw fluid spray in at the carb doesn’t mean it’s fuel. Can you try some starter fluid Instead?

Sometimes water or separated alcohol accumulates at the bottom of the tank and gets sucked up on cranking.
 
> Filled with diesel by mistake?
>
> Sully
> Bellevue wa

I would say "how in the hell could someone do that". That is until my FIL did that on a trip from Stugis. He got pumped out and filled up. We made
him ride tail end of the pack. His bike just stunk of diesel. Took about two tankfuls before it got to be acceptable, but still noticeable.

Nope - no diesel. Station I filled up at didn't have diesel. When I was working on the fuel system it only smelled like gas.
--
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
 
> Anybody reading this. an inductive Timing light is a very inexpensive tool that can be very handy to quickly see if you are dealing with a
> spark or fuel issue. simplest way I have found to make sure you have spark for sure, without tearing apart things.
>
>
> So do as Matt and others suggested, hook up the timing light, and zip tie the trigger and crank the engine. That will very easily and quickly
> tell you if you have spark. a litte twisting and con-torsion and you can double check it is sparking near TDC.
>
>
> another easy thing to try, is to use a mustard squeeze bottle, to fill up the carb.
>
> I would suspect a wire on the distributor or such causing an issue. if you are pertronixs, there are a few ways to wire that up on the old
> points system where you have to deal with resistor and the extra wire off starter, that could be causing some issue. you need to make sure you know
> what voltage the distributor is getting at ignition "on" as well as what it sees while cranking.

Pertronix is wired like HEI. Direct from ignition switch. Resistor wire is no longer used.

Spouse can do the cranking while I attempt to see the marks.

--
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
 
Well that is good news for sure. I know unlikely but if you had spark and
fuel and no fire.........

Sully

On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 12:18 PM Steve Southworth via Gmclist <

> > Filled with diesel by mistake?
> >
> > Sully
> > Bellevue wa
>
> I would say "how in the hell could someone do that". That is until my FIL
> did that on a trip from Stugis. He got pumped out and filled up. We made
> him ride tail end of the pack. His bike just stunk of diesel. Took about
> two tankfuls before it got to be acceptable, but still noticeable.
>
> Nope - no diesel. Station I filled up at didn't have diesel. When I was
> working on the fuel system it only smelled like gas.
> --
> Steve Southworth
> 1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
> 1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
> Palmyra WI
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
> What do you mean "spark at distributor"? Do you have spark at the end of the wire going to the spark plug?
>
> Does your choke work?
>
> Emery Stora

Pulled wire from coil off at distributor and did the check there.

Yes - it sets correctly and starts to come off (electric) with the key on.
--
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
 
> Just because you saw fluid spray in at the carb doesn't mean it's fuel. Can you try some starter fluid Instead?
>
> Sometimes water or separated alcohol accumulates at the bottom of the tank and gets sucked up on cranking.

During the simplification of the fuel system there was some fuel in a catch pan. It evaporated and left no trace of any liquid. Coach has been run
a fair amount since August so I don't think it was alcohol separation. Carb smells very strongly of gas just like expected.
--
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
 
You describe a lack of spark. Figure the liquid coming down the carb throat is in fact gasoline then a lack of spark to light it is highly indicated.
Check with the timing light and report back. Or just hazard ten bucks and buy a new ignition module. Worst case it's a spare to have on hand.
Advance or any of them ought to have a light for lend.

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
 
One thing not mentioned. I have a 455 but the carb is off a 403.

From what I can tell it should not make a difference. At least for starting. Air moves past a Venturi and sucks out enough gas to make the proper
mixture. ?????

--
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
 
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