Dash heat and exhaust fumes

jason1

New member
Jan 29, 2017
21
0
0
Hey y'all. You all have been so helpful. Thank you so much. On to my next post here:

Got my eye on a 77 era coach that's local here and did my first test drive on it. Found the following possible problems that I'd like your opinions
on.

Dash heat. We ran the coach for over an hour and the heater never blew warm. It was 45 degrees outside. Owner didn't think it was broke just
"inefficient". Something about the long distance the water had to travel around (to the house water heater and back he said). Total bs or is that
normal for these coaches. (Sure hope not. Wife will definitely murder me if we can't have cabin heat) What things could cause that and how much to
fix? Ballpark.

Exhaust fumes. When we drove around the coach smelled of gas and fumes. He explained it away as the tank being "too full". True or bs. What could
cause this? How much to fix. Ballpark. This is also a non starter for the wife. She gets migraines pretty easy if she's trapped in a room that has
bad chemical smells. Pretty sure carbon monoxide would make that list of triggers.

Some Road drift and loose steering - I think. The rig has just shy of 120k. Suspension never rebuilt. He's Running Alcoas and firestones. Owner said
it drifted a lot more when he had Michelins and he feels it rides fine. Im sure I do need to drive more GMCs to see if it's just me or if they all
drive like this. Assuming I need a rebuilt front end - what would this cost. Ballpark of course.

he didn't demonstrate the dash or roof ac - said it was "too cold" to show the AC works but he said they both worked.

he didn't have the refrigerator lit off. What's a worst case scenario (parts and labor) on a replacement refrigerator in case it turns out to be
beyond repair.

It's never been converted for ethanol tainted gas. Conversion estimate?

He keeps the airbags in "auto" and not "lock" contrary to the instructions stated on the advisory plate. Is this bad. I seemed a tad suspicious
especially since I found a post he did on here asking about a problem with the level system several years ago. He says it is working to spec. I don't
know enough about it to know if his demo Of it showed it worked after all. It seemed to slowly go up and down as he hit the controls while I watched
outside.

Last, the seats wouldn't slide forward. What do new or restored seats cost if it can't be repaired or just operator error.

Trying to get a rough idea of what I'd be into $$ wise - worst case scenario - if all these things require repair/replacement (assuming I had it all
done for me at a shop).

I understand this is asking a lot not knowing what actually is wrong in each case. Just trying to
Get a sense.

Other than these things I liked the coach based on my shallow knowledge of these so far and with nothing to compare it to.

He was an otherwise really nice, older gentleman who said he was selling it because they are headed to the "old folks storage facility". his words. To
be fair he knew a lot about the coach and could be spot on with all of his assessments. He seems motivated to sell and I may make an offer (it has a
rear bath and was maintained by Ken Frey and has all records since new and a new galvanized frame which like) especially if he concedes these costs
and adjusts the price accordingly. (He listed the price based on "everything works" and was surprised I brought up these issues) so I think an
adjustment would be fair if they turn out to be real issues. Naturally I'll pay to have a shop draw up estimates to get a more exact idea of what to
offer him if we get that far. Mostly just want to know if you all think this coach would be worth the time and expense to take this next step or is
this sounding like a lemon and I should just move on.

Thank you in advance.

Jason

--
WTB a 77 or 78 with dry bath config.
 
I've had to edit out some of the original message to get under the posting
size limit.
KH

Jason,

I'm going to interspace answers with your questions. I started to use CAPS
to distinguish them, but I just can't do it. You'll have remember what's
yours and what's mine. :-)

​On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 7:37 PM, Jason Lawrence
wrote:

> ​...
>
> Dash heat. We ran the coach for over an hour and the heater never blew
> warm. It was 45 degrees outside. Owner didn't think it was broke just
> "inefficient". Something about the long distance the water had to travel
> around (to the house water heater and back he said).

​...
D
ash heat should work well even on '73 coaches, moreso on '77. I doubt that
he forgot it, but a lot of us have installed ball valves in the heater
lines to improve summer cooling -- check for that. It can't be a major
problem to fix, even if you have to replace all the hoses (which you may
want to do anyway). The cockpit heater water does not travel via the water
heater -- they share the water coming out of the right rear of the engine.
At GMCWS.org there's a booklet "Separating Hot from Cold", by Zay Brand,
that gives complete descriptions and maintenance instructions for all 3 GMC
A/C variants; you should download and read it.


> Exhaust fumes. When we drove around the coach smelled of gas and fumes. He
> explained it away as the tank being "too full". True or bs. What could
> cause this? How much to fix. Ballpark. This is also a non starter for the
> wife.
> ​...
>
​...​
Unless the exhaust was LOUD​ you probably didn't smell the exhaust. More
likely collected oil, etc., on the engine smoking and perhaps a little gas
leak -- or maybe a bad gas cap (remember the filler is right beside the
driver). There are a number of possible sources for such smells, but none
of them likely to be major problems to repair -- starting with a good
gasket around the engine hatch, which is probably badly deteriorated. The
GMC is not a "stink pot" by any means, but there will occassionally be a
whiff of something -- especially if you try to drive with the cockpit
windows open.
>
>
>
Some Road drift and loose steering - I think. The rig has just shy of 120k.
> Suspension never rebuilt. He's Running Alcoas and firestones. Owner said

​...​
This is probably the most common GMCMH complaint, IMHO. At 120K, the front
end needs rebuilding. And unless there's recent documentation of front
wheel bearing repacking, that should be your most immediate concern (after
brakes) because they DO require attention. If the condition of the front
end is such that you require rebuilt knuckles and/or hubs, you'll want to
either buy those from Dave Lenzi, or install a Manny One-Ton front end (my
recommendation and the more economical solution). Front end work MUST
include attention to the the steering box and proper alignment of the
steering column. Ride height adjustment and wheel alignment are essential
and MUST be done by someone with GMC experience and patience -- it's an
iterative process that can't be short circuited. For all that, without
labor, you're in the neighborhood of $2000; probably at least half again
that for labor though I'm no authority on that since I do all my own work.
>
>
> he didn't demonstrate the dash or roof ac - said it was "too cold" to show
> the AC works but he said they both worked.
>
​Don't count on it. The roof airs probably do work, even if they're the
originals, because the sealed systems are very reliable. The dash air you
can't be too sure about. Compressor seals are prone to leakage on all old
vehicles, as are old hoses. And the heater problem you saw may be due to
some factors that also affect A/C -- you'll see in the reference I gave you
how that can be. WE've got a LOT of experience, and advice to give, about
A/C. The 77 & 78 coaches have the best of the GMC A/C's, but I wouldn't
suggest that it's GREAT.​

>
> he didn't have the refrigerator lit off. What's a worst case scenario
> (parts and labor) on a replacement refrigerator in case it turns out to be
> beyond repair.
>
​$1200 or so for a new Dometic 7cf replacement. It can probably be rebuilt
for less than that, but if it's clean and fresh-looking, it probably works.​

>
> It's never been converted for ethanol tainted gas. Conversion estimate?
>
​I'm not sure what you mean by "converted". The conversion is the
replacement of all gas hoses with modern ones that are ethanol-resistant.
If the coach has been being used over the past few years, some of that has
probably been done. If not, the gas tanks will have to be dropped and
about 50' of hose replaced. It's a full day job for me. Ken Frye probably
knows the status of those.​

>
> He keeps the airbags in "auto" and not "lock" contrary to the instructions
> stated on the advisory plate. Is this bad.
>
​...​
​I also run in Auto all the time, as I think most with fully functional
systems do. It's as much a personal choice as anything else. If the
system's leaky, that will need to be fixed, but if you found the coach at
ride height, and not drooping severely in the rear, it's probably OK.
Hopefully when the new frame was installed, attention was given to the
suspension components also.​

>
> Last, the seats wouldn't slide forward. What do new or restored seats cost
> if it can't be repaired or just operator error.
>
​Sounds to me like an operator problem or severe lack of lubrication. The
seats themselves shouldn't have anything to do with it, provided they're
mounted on the original swiveling/sliding bases. Even replacement of the
bases would not be terribly expensive. If you don't like the seats
themselves, you're looking at $100-$1000 for replacements -- your choice of
used/rebuilt/new, etc. Many of us have installed recent model van center
row seats for on the order of $200 per seat. ​
​...
​Seems to me the galvanized frame (undoubtedly for Don Stuckey) is a BIG,
BIG plus. It's stronger than OEM and impervious to rust. Anyone who'd
spend those big bucks on the coach really cared about it and was not very
likely to let everything else go to pot. You haven't mentioned anything
I'd consider a major problem. If there is a problem, it's likely to be
your need to have someone else do the work -- I hope you're close to Ken
Frye. :-)
​...​

​Good Luck; hope you'll join the community soon,​

Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, etc., etc., etc.
www.gmcwipersetc.com​
 
Have him drop the price few thousand as he is blowing smoke.
Heater should work fine, you should not smell gas.
We get coaches in our shop with these complaits and we fix them.
Unless you find one that has been taken care of, these are typical of the
ones people are trying to dump.

On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 4:37 PM, Jason Lawrence
wrote:

> Hey y'all. You all have been so helpful. Thank you so much. On to my next
> post here:
>
> Got my eye on a 77 era coach that's local here and did my first test drive
> on it. Found the following possible problems that I'd like your opinions
> on.
>
> Dash heat. We ran the coach for over an hour and the heater never blew
> warm. It was 45 degrees outside. Owner didn't think it was broke just
> "inefficient". Something about the long distance the water had to travel
> around (to the house water heater and back he said). Total bs or is that
> normal for these coaches. (Sure hope not. Wife will definitely murder me
> if we can't have cabin heat) What things could cause that and how much to
> fix? Ballpark.
>
> Exhaust fumes. When we drove around the coach smelled of gas and fumes. He
> explained it away as the tank being "too full". True or bs. What could
> cause this? How much to fix. Ballpark. This is also a non starter for the
> wife. She gets migraines pretty easy if she's trapped in a room that has
> bad chemical smells. Pretty sure carbon monoxide would make that list of
> triggers.
>
> Some Road drift and loose steering - I think. The rig has just shy of
> 120k. Suspension never rebuilt. He's Running Alcoas and firestones. Owner
> said
> it drifted a lot more when he had Michelins and he feels it rides fine. Im
> sure I do need to drive more GMCs to see if it's just me or if they all
> drive like this. Assuming I need a rebuilt front end - what would this
> cost. Ballpark of course.
>
> he didn't demonstrate the dash or roof ac - said it was "too cold" to show
> the AC works but he said they both worked.
>
> he didn't have the refrigerator lit off. What's a worst case scenario
> (parts and labor) on a replacement refrigerator in case it turns out to be
> beyond repair.
>
> It's never been converted for ethanol tainted gas. Conversion estimate?
>
> He keeps the airbags in "auto" and not "lock" contrary to the instructions
> stated on the advisory plate. Is this bad. I seemed a tad suspicious
> especially since I found a post he did on here asking about a problem with
> the level system several years ago. He says it is working to spec. I don't
> know enough about it to know if his demo Of it showed it worked after all.
> It seemed to slowly go up and down as he hit the controls while I watched
> outside.
>
> Last, the seats wouldn't slide forward. What do new or restored seats cost
> if it can't be repaired or just operator error.
>
> Trying to get a rough idea of what I'd be into $$ wise - worst case
> scenario - if all these things require repair/replacement (assuming I had
> it all
> done for me at a shop).
>
> I understand this is asking a lot not knowing what actually is wrong in
> each case. Just trying to
> Get a sense.
>
> Other than these things I liked the coach based on my shallow knowledge of
> these so far and with nothing to compare it to.
>
> He was an otherwise really nice, older gentleman who said he was selling
> it because they are headed to the "old folks storage facility". his words.
> To
> be fair he knew a lot about the coach and could be spot on with all of his
> assessments. He seems motivated to sell and I may make an offer (it has a
> rear bath and was maintained by Ken Frey and has all records since new and
> a new galvanized frame which like) especially if he concedes these costs
> and adjusts the price accordingly. (He listed the price based on
> "everything works" and was surprised I brought up these issues) so I think
> an
> adjustment would be fair if they turn out to be real issues. Naturally
> I'll pay to have a shop draw up estimates to get a more exact idea of what
> to
> offer him if we get that far. Mostly just want to know if you all think
> this coach would be worth the time and expense to take this next step or is
> this sounding like a lemon and I should just move on.
>
> Thank you in advance.
>
> Jason
>
> --
> WTB a 77 or 78 with dry bath config.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
 
Such great answers. Thank you so much. You understood me right about the ethanol. Nothing was done to it to make it run on today's ethanol poisoned
fuel that I know of.

I was thinking the same thing about the value of the frame being replaced. Sounds like a lot so I do need to factor that into my offer as I'm sure he
did as well on his asking price.

Totaling it all up it sounds like if I offered him 3000 or 4000 less than asking that would be a fair offer to offset the unknowns and suspension
rebuild. That is unless he is willing to haul it back up to Ken F and get a full written estimate on making it truly a "road ready, everything works"
rig as he's advertised then adjust his price accordingly. I seriously doubt he'd do that though. He seems pretty ready to just unload it and doesn't
want to invest any more time or effort on it.

Would it be tacky to say on here how much he wants for it and ask if you all think it's a good deal
"As is" even with the issues I wrote about? I'm honestly a little worried too that if it in truth IS a smokin deal already as is someone here will
see it and go and buy it out from under me. Lol. He hasn't advertised it very well and that may be why it's still available? I truly don't know what a
"good deal" is on a rig yet. If you agree it would be best to try and keep That detail under wraps, I'd be happy to pm you and tell you his asking is
if you wouldn't mind giving your opinion on its price fairness. (I'm assuming you aren't looking to buy another rig? Haha)
--
WTB a 77 or 78 with dry bath config.
 
Jason,

I don't see how divulging only the asking price would do any harm, and some
here may then express valuable opinions. Before doing so, you should
probably divulge more of the good points; most of your questions revolve
around the weaknesses.

JMHO,

Ken H.

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:41 PM, Jason Lawrence
wrote:

> ​...
>
>
> Would it be tacky to say on here how much he wants for it and ask if you
> all think it's a good deal
> "As is" even with the issues I wrote about? I'm honestly a little worried
> too that if it in truth IS a smokin deal already as is someone here will
> see it and go and buy it out from under me. Lol. He hasn't advertised it
> very well and that may be why it's still available? I truly don't know what
> a
> "good deal" is on a rig yet. If you agree it would be best to try and keep
> That detail under wraps, I'd be happy to pm you and tell you his asking is
> if you wouldn't mind giving your opinion on its price fairness. (I'm
> assuming you aren't looking to buy another rig? Haha)
> --
>
 
Jason

Send Ken an off net email about the price...he's right on the rest of his
answers ..Ken Henderson

Mike in NS

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 8:13 PM, Ken Henderson
wrote:

> Jason,
>
> I don't see how divulging only the asking price would do any harm, and some
> here may then express valuable opinions. Before doing so, you should
> probably divulge more of the good points; most of your questions revolve
> around the weaknesses.
>
> JMHO,
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:41 PM, Jason Lawrence

>
> > ​...
> >
> >
> > Would it be tacky to say on here how much he wants for it and ask if you
> > all think it's a good deal
> > "As is" even with the issues I wrote about? I'm honestly a little
> worried
> > too that if it in truth IS a smokin deal already as is someone here will
> > see it and go and buy it out from under me. Lol. He hasn't advertised it
> > very well and that may be why it's still available? I truly don't know
> what
> > a
> > "good deal" is on a rig yet. If you agree it would be best to try and
> keep
> > That detail under wraps, I'd be happy to pm you and tell you his asking
> is
> > if you wouldn't mind giving your opinion on its price fairness. (I'm
> > assuming you aren't looking to buy another rig? Haha)
> > --
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS

Life is too short to hold a grudge; slash some tires and call it even !
 
Our dash heat decided to quit working on a cold, rainy trip between Las Vegas and Parker, AZ a few weeks ago. I have diagnosed it to either a bad
heater control valve or a plugged heater core. It should blow nice and hot, warm anyway.

The gas/exhaust smell could be due to a leaky hatch cover gasket and/or exhaust leaks as Matt suggested. These are easily remedied.
--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
Solar battery charging
 
I wasn't getting any heat or A/C from my 73 26 footer. After reading as much as I could find on gmc.net and other sites, I decided to try and reinvent
the wheel. Guess what... it didn't work. I did a number of things suggested and even called on my experience in household A/C to redirect the air
flow. I found the A/C is worthless but by re-furbishing the A/C to heat flapper-door seal, I now have great heat and defrost. I'm going to b-pass the
dash air for a Vintage-air or (probably) something I can hack together from the man's mall. (I tend to do stuff like that) It will be a Dara-cool
system. I'm not going to tear the dash apart to fix the A/C's garbage duct work. I'll just make it two separate systems. Search the gmc.net for a
number of different fixes. There are a ton of them.
--
Patti & Jerry Burt
73 Gmc 26' Canyon Lands -
Photos - http://jburt.smugmug.com/GMC-Motorhome
Lots of upgrades but lots to do to make it ours.
Members: FMCA - GMCMI - GMCWS - Pacific Cruisers - 49ers
 
> Our dash heat decided to quit working on a cold, rainy trip between Las Vegas and Parker, AZ a few weeks ago. I have diagnosed it to either a bad
> heater control valve or a plugged heater core. It should blow nice and hot, warm anyway.
>
> The gas/exhaust smell could be due to a leaky hatch cover gasket and/or exhaust leaks as Matt suggested. These are easily remedied.

Sounds like a heater control problem. I can't help with that BUT... if not, you can check a possible heater core blockage (right out in front under
the hood. Check the GMCphoto.net site for pics) by disconnecting the hoses to the heater-core and running a hose through it to be sure there are no
restrictions. A restriction is unlikely but that is an easy check. I wish I could give you links but I'm not where I can I can.
--
Patti & Jerry Burt
73 Gmc 26' Canyon Lands -
Photos - http://jburt.smugmug.com/GMC-Motorhome
Lots of upgrades but lots to do to make it ours.
Members: FMCA - GMCMI - GMCWS - Pacific Cruisers - 49ers
 
I was without heat for a long time until I found it. It was a simple fix but I didn't know it.

You can lose heat if....

the coolant level is low

If the vent door do not open (vaccum operated). Located inside the vent. If the vents do not open and you cannot find the problem, prop the vents
open.

If the control cable broke off the tab for fastening, either at the heater control in the dash or on the door control at the heater vent control under
the hood.
..... I had to replace the control cable, the tab broke off and the whole assembly moved when the heater lever was moved, so no heater door action
under the hood. Replaced and the heat is great.

Just my thoughts.
--
GatsbysCruise. 74GMC Glacier Model.
 
Dash heat. Make sure all the seals and connections are good. everything was leaking on mine, the heater box was leaky, the plenums were mostly disconnected. heat/AC was going everywhere but into the cockpit.

Take the glove box out and check the connections to the dash vents, mine were completely disconnected. Open the heater box, make sure it's all clean and tight. Rig the recirc system, if you have it, to recirc 100%. Remember recirc only happens when the dash control is at max.

Gas fumes. make sure the cockpit is sealed, the engine hatch needs to have a complete rubber seal, the sides to the floor, firewall should be all air tight. Fix all those and it will be way better.

________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of slc
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 2:13:07 AM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Dash heat and exhaust fumes

I was without heat for a long time until I found it. It was a simple fix but I didn't know it.

You can lose heat if....

the coolant level is low

If the vent door do not open (vaccum operated). Located inside the vent. If the vents do not open and you cannot find the problem, prop the vents
open.

If the control cable broke off the tab for fastening, either at the heater control in the dash or on the door control at the heater vent control under
the hood.
..... I had to replace the control cable, the tab broke off and the whole assembly moved when the heater lever was moved, so no heater door action
under the hood. Replaced and the heat is great.

Just my thoughts.
--
GatsbysCruise. 74GMC Glacier Model.

_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Have not read in this thread about fumes possibly coming in due to
chipmunk cheeks (the separation of the front cap and floor at the front wheels),
the body will have a bulge out at the front wheel area.

Just something to check.

--
”When we avoid the mistakes we might have made, we sometimes make the mistakes that we might have avoided.”

Adrien & Jenny Genesoto
75 Glenbrook 26-3
Yuba City,Ca. Text 530-nine-3-three-3-nine-nine-6
 
> Have not read in this thread about fumes possibly coming in due to chipmunk cheeks (the separation of the front cap and floor at the front
> wheels), the body will have a bulge out at the front wheel area.
>
> Just something to check.
We didn't mention the possibility of some rotted wood in the floor either. The fixes to the rotten floor or the chipmunk cheeks are not expensive if
you DIY. As usual, add $80 - $100 per hour for someone else to fix it for you ($10 - $100 to DIY, a couple hundred to a grand additional for someone
else to do it).
--
73 23' Sequoia 4 Sale
73 23' CanyonLands Parts Unit 4 Sale
Upper Alabama
"When I grow up I am going to be a curmudgeon."