Conversion to "FRIGC

M

marcus mcgee

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Sep 29, 1997
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Just had the engine air done. They converted to Penzoil's "Frig-C"
which is a drop in replacement. That part cost me $235.00. The AC had
an overpressure problem and they fought to find it. Finally after
flushing everything twice an old O-Ring came out of the condenser.
It was a $200.00 O-ring. All back to normal now and it seems to
cool quite well. The rad shop says the Frig-C is 10% to 20% more
efficient than the old freon.

They suggested putting in a separate heater hose valve as the mechanical
one does not shut tight. I know I can put in a manual one, but is there
an 12 volt in line valve that I can use and control off a switch? Any
other suggestions or solutions?

Marcus
 
Praise the Lord Marcus! You have beaten the environmentalists at their
own game. You've converted your system over and have increased it's
efficiency at the same time. Good on ya!

- -Scott Woodworth
 
Marcus,

I went to two different air conditioning shops in my area, San
Diego, one of which was actually in Pennzoil's web site as an
authorized distributer. Well they both were using it until they had it
analyzed and found it was loaded with propane. They both strongly
recommended that I steer clear of it and suggested I go to R134 or stick
with freon. The guy in the web site was furious that Pennzoil had not
removed his name as a distributor. Use at your own risk, the stuff is
highly flamable. I had it analyzed where I work and they confirmed it
contained propane.

Regards, Phil

- -
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 16:05:37 -0400
From: Marcus McGee
Organization: Frontier Internet
To: gmcmotorhome
Subject: GMC: Conversion to "FRIGC"

Just had the engine air done. They converted to Penzoil's "Frig-C"
which is a drop in replacement. That part cost me $235.00. The AC had
an overpressure problem and they fought to find it. Finally after
flushing everything twice an old O-Ring came out of the condenser.
It was a $200.00 O-ring. All back to normal now and it seems to
cool quite well. The rad shop says the Frig-C is 10% to 20% more
efficient than the old freon.

They suggested putting in a separate heater hose valve as the mechanical
one does not shut tight. I know I can put in a manual one, but is there
an 12 volt in line valve that I can use and control off a switch? Any
other suggestions or solutions?

Marcus

- --------------CB2DE5F7467B43B4F9EF4230--
 
>Marcus,
>
> I went to two different air conditioning shops in my area, San
>Diego, one of which was actually in Pennzoil's web site as an
>authorized distributer. Well they both were using it until they had it
>analyzed and found it was loaded with propane. They both strongly
>recommended that I steer clear of it and suggested I go to R134 or stick
>with freon. The guy in the web site was furious that Pennzoil had not
>removed his name as a distributor. Use at your own risk, the stuff is
>highly flamable. I had it analyzed where I work and they confirmed it
>contained propane.
>

Not to rain on anyone's parade, or make light of your concern,
but If you read the label on most hair spray, deodorant and paint spray
cans, you might find the propellant is or contains propane. I work in a
major home appliance engineering department/lab and some of the replacements
for CFC's contained propane or butane or isobutane. during testing we
found that the amount of propane contained in a cooling system is minor
compared to the amount contained in your patio gas grill or even in the
propane tank in your motorhome for heating and cooking. even your fuel tank
carries 50 US gal.s of highly flamable gasoline. The amount of propane
contained in a refrig system is very
small and FWIW: I for one would not be overly concerned with it.
( For what its worth, our company decided to go with 134A for our appliances
even though the propane containing coolant, partly because of the legal beagles
overuled common sense, and good engineering.)

BTW: have you looked at the flamabity of anti-freeze for your engine ?
I,ve also been a firefighter for over 30 years, and antifreeze burns just fine.
its even listed as a suspect item used in arson fires.
 
>
> Marcus,
> (SNIP)
> Use at your own risk, the stuff is
> highly flamable. I had it analyzed where I work and they confirmed it
> contained propane.
>

Phil:

I knew of the propane content, and it is a minor amount of the total
mass. If we were all concerned about flamables in a contained system
why would you carry a propane tank and some even runn the frig on
propane while driving? Others hav said it better, but as in all
safety matters it is more a case of perception than reality.

I would hazzard a guess that the AC shop makes much more $$$ on 134A
conversions than by simply replacing the freon with a drop in like
Frig-C. I have been in the safety-security business for 25 years
and seen many scare tactics to promote one product and denegrate
another. The true fact is that there is not enough combustible in the
Frig-C to cause a problem even if a hose erupts and releases all the
refrigerant.

Marcus
 
(snip)
> PS: Is that Frig-C stuff EPA listed and approved? Let us know how it holds
> up for you.
>
>
Yes it is EPA blessed. Will keep you informed.

The valve you are talking about may be the one the Rad man was reffering
to. He pointed it out to me but I have not had a chance to check it
out yet.

Marcus
 
You will find that the vacuum operated valve in the hose to the heater
core does not positively shut off the flow of coolant. I've found that
the only time it is noticeable that heat is emanating (from the
defroster vents in my case) from the system is when the outside ambient
air temperature is > 80 degrees F.

I, and many others, have installed an additional, manually operated
positive shut-off valve in the heater hose at a point near the radiator
filler cap. An exact location near the radiator is not important, only
that you put it in the heater hose line (it can be either in the supply
(preferred one) or return lines). Do not put the valve assembly in
close proximity to the heater core metal tube connections, because the
hanging weight of the valve assembly is enough that in time, due to
vibrations while driving, it will case fatigue in the metal tubes and
cause them to crack. From the heater core toward the radiator, the
heater hose should be clamped to a support to isolate stress on the
heater core connection.

In my case, I installed a 1/2" brass ball valve, with hose barbs on
either end, to slide inside the heater hose cut that you must make to
install it. Use hose clamps to secure the valve assembly.

The ball valve has a short handle that pivots in a 90 degree arc between
the open and closed positions, so make sure installation does not impede
operation of the valve.

Installation is very easy to do.

The only inconvenience is having to manually turn the valve on or off.

Paul Bartz

> -----Original Message-----
> From: RickStapls [SMTP:RickStapls]
> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 1998 11:20 PM
> To: gmcmotorhome
> Subject: Re: GMC: Conversion to "FRIGC"
>
> In a message dated 4/23/98 2:32:14 PM MDT, crsalert

>
> They suggested putting in a separate heater hose valve as the
> mechanical one does not shut tight. .......
>
> Marcus:
>
> You should have a vacuum-operated water shut-off valve in your coach,
> located up front next to the heater assembly. It is actuated by the
> Grey vacuum line coming from the temperature valve vacuum port of your
> AC dash control unit. (See pp 1-104 thru 1-107 of your X-7525-A shop
> manual). The mechanical air flap in your heater is just to adjust the
> blend of hot and cold air. The vacuum valve is what shuts "off" the
> heat in the "recirc" position (which isn't necessarilly a
> "recirculating" position, but that's another story. ;-) ).
>
> On my coach, someone had removed and discarded the vacuum valve,
> probably on some cold winter's day when they were looking for heat! I
> found a likely- looking replacement at my local Carquest store (I
> think it was a CTC brand, part # 277804, if my records are right) I
> found the plugged-up vacuum line stuffed up beside the heater,
> reconnected it, and all was well again.
>
> PS: Is that Frig-C stuff EPA listed and approved? Let us know how it
> holds up for you.
>
> Rick Staples,
> Louisville, CO
 
Phil, I'd talk to whomever analyzed it for you. According to the EPA,
FrigC does not contain any propane. It contains 2% butane. Even if it
did, it would be non-flammable.

FrigC contains:

59% R134a
39% R124
2% R-600 (commonly known as butane)

and is inflammable as blended. EPA will not certify any flammable
refrigerants for automotive use. They denied certification to several
that were.

FrigC is much more effective as a coolant than R134a, which I wouldn't
consider using. There are several other superior auto refrigerants
available now.

My .02

Bob Brewer

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marcus McGee [SMTP:crsalert]
> Sent: Friday, April 24, 1998 5:33 AM
> To: gmcmotorhome
> Subject: Re: GMC: [Fwd: Conversion to "FRIGC"]
>

> >
> > Marcus,
> > (SNIP)
> > Use at your own risk, the stuff is
> > highly flamable. I had it analyzed where I work and they confirmed
> it
> > contained propane.
> >
>
> Phil:
>
> I knew of the propane content, and it is a minor amount of the total
> mass. If we were all concerned about flamables in a contained system
> why would you carry a propane tank and some even runn the frig on
> propane while driving? Others hav said it better, but as in all
> safety matters it is more a case of perception than reality.
>
> I would hazzard a guess that the AC shop makes much more $$$ on 134A
> conversions than by simply replacing the freon with a drop in like
> Frig-C. I have been in the safety-security business for 25 years
> and seen many scare tactics to promote one product and denegrate
> another. The true fact is that there is not enough combustible in the
> Frig-C to cause a problem even if a hose erupts and releases all the
> refrigerant.
>
> Marcus
 
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